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Munich S-Bahn train driver kicks black passenger after using racial epithet

The Local · 25 Aug 2011, 08:59

Published: 25 Aug 2011 08:59 GMT+02:00

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The incident started after the 21-year-old hospital orderly from Guinea hopped onto a train at the last second and held the door open for his girlfriend.

The 51-year-old train driver then switched on the train’s PA system and racially abused the man as a “Neger” – which ranges in meaning between “nigger” and “negro” in German.

“Everybody could hear it,” said a police spokesman.

The upset passenger promptly knocked on the driver’s cabin to complain, but the driver ignored him.

At the next station, the passenger stepped out of the train to photograph the driver with his mobile phone, at which point the driver opened the door and kicked the man to stop him. The mobile phone fell to ground and broke.

The train driver now faces charges of slander, property damage and assault.

Several passengers in the full S-Bahn were appalled by the train driver’s behaviour, according to a statement by the federal police. Two witnesses accompanied the orderly to the police station at Muinch’s main train station to complain.

The driver reported the incident to the S-Bahn control centre and admitted he had used the epithet and kicked the man. But he said he had felt threatened by the passenger’s aggressive knocking on the door to his cabin.

Story continues below…

DPA/The Local/mry

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

10:00 August 25, 2011 by oldMoslin
It was very rude nature of the driver. These drivers (some of them think they are kind of king) and no respect for the passengers.

I am from Srilanka . I have dark skin. Twice happened that the bus driver of a regional bus did not stop the bus where I intended to stop. Though I had pressed the stop button well before the stop.As he did not stop the bus (and it is a regional bus) I had to get off the next stoppage and walked back to my intended stoppage.

I am not sure if the same bus driver intentionally did that or was two time accidentals. I asked him why he did not stop ( the second day when he did that ) he said he was very busy as he was talking on his personal cell phone.

I wrote to the local transport company's website a complaint. But it was not easy to complain as the website (of the transport comapany did not have anything like customer satifaction/compalint any thing.I dropped the mail to a general email address e.g. info@..../.de ) .

In Germany some people (who are less qualified) are very much racial. One thing bothers me very much is the lady who seats in the local Penny Markt (which is the nearest from my home). She is some Ms, Cicek, she is probably from Italian origin. She behaves with color people very bad. I noticed that almost regularly. Once she was almost bending my bank card while inserying it to the reading machine. And no smile no greeting nothing.She does that only with the white Europeans :(. I am not saying all of the people in that Penny ()who seats in the cash are bad) but whenever ?I don't have any option I have to go to that lady. I tried to complain on Penny Markts website but did not find any relevant mail address :(.

I thinks there are a lot of training and mental qualifications should be judged before employing people in direct customer caring services.
10:55 August 25, 2011 by ackmanx
You could email kontakt@penny.de and maybe reach somebody that way. I will say though that as a white American in Germany (8 months total over past 4 years) I have generally don't get smiles and nice greetings at Penny Markt or various other retail stores (such as Real). I kind of just chalked it up to being "part of their culture" and didn't sweat it.
10:58 August 25, 2011 by yourholiness
The train driver should be fired.

That said, there must be a lot more of these kinds of incidences than are publicized in the newspaper. As Chancellor Merkel famously said recently multiculturalism in Germany is a failure.

We didn't need her to tell us that.
11:02 August 25, 2011 by storymann
unconscionable, making a racist remark over the loud speaker and physically attacking this person. This behavior should result in the drivers immediate firing.
11:16 August 25, 2011 by ECSNatale
"But he said he had felt threatened by the passenger¦#39;s aggressive knocking on the door to his cabin." That is hysterical... aggressive knocking on the LOCKED door of his cabin. I mean really, the only thing he was scared by was the fact that the abused stood up for himself and the man knew he was in trouble.

Some people in the world are just slime balls. It has nothing to do with origin.
12:04 August 25, 2011 by Adamu Gagdi Jibrin
I am surprised there still exist racial uncomfortability in the mind of some human creations as found in Germany.Please let justice be done,so as to discourage others having the same motive.
12:08 August 25, 2011 by great_warrior
Please note one thing clearly...If you are a foreigner then please accept a fact that being a foreigner you are a third class citizen and must learn to live with racism...faster you will learn this and accept this, you will be more happy. By the way i am also foreigner and now stopped fighting for racism in daily life.This is the only reason that Germany do not have Anti-Racism offices and laws which are available to foreigners.
12:12 August 25, 2011 by oldMoslin

Cannot agree. Because we foreigners living here and working in different companies and bringing good wealth to German economy..I cannot agree that if I face racism from anybody (illiterate or educated) I will complain. Because at the end of the day I believe more people are not racials in Germany.

But I agree there should be department withing every customer care industries to accepts complaints and necessary actions should be taken when such complaints are lodged.
12:20 August 25, 2011 by ATM
I have lived in Germany for over 13 years. As a Black American I have had a few incidents. Some of the few were from the ignorant and obviously not too well educated. I had to complain to a store manager about the service and my complaint was dealt with. This driver definitely should be suspended and an apology to the passenger from the Bahn. Glad to see some people stood by the passenger. Racism and all the other isms will be around but people should stand up to it.
12:25 August 25, 2011 by great_warrior
@oldMoslin....Till what limit you want to control racism and how you will prove it. lets start from beginning...

1. People at Ausländersamt talks very rudely and you cannot do anything.

2. Companies do not want to offer you job or promote you ..what you can do. They have plenty of reasons.

3. You will not get a good house...Always get answer from owner that we have decided for someone else.

4. Children tease foreigners children in schools but nothing can happen because they are juvenile..

Tell me which limit you want to define...why there are not Anti-Racism laws in practice...Because they know very well that if there are such laws which are in reach of common man then prison would be full with racists...
12:36 August 25, 2011 by yourholiness
Of course on the other hand if an immigrant doesn't like the way he or she is treated in Germany there is always the option of leaving.
12:39 August 25, 2011 by ND1000
It sucks but you arent going to stop racism in Germany. Unfortunately the complaints wont do much to help either. I learned this as a white person living in Africa for 1 year. I just moved and things got better. Fighting ignorance wears you out.
12:48 August 25, 2011 by great_warrior
@ yourholiness Immigrants have already started leaving Germany and the concept of Europe has also failed...see the statistics of immigration...Thousands of high level jobs poistions are empty including Engineering, Doctor, Scientists and many more.Even people from east europe did not arrived in numbers as the government targeted. With the countries decreasing young population and increasing old population and immigration hurdles for skilled professional the future seems to be very problematic.

Unlike most of Germans foreigners are having families so coming and leaving the country is not like a hotel.Whenever the time would be appropriate most of them who are not here only for social benefits would leave.
12:54 August 25, 2011 by Takoda
Hello everyone, I'm half Egyptian and often people treat me a normal way coz they don't realise that background. But the moment I tell them my name, they often change their behavor. So for example it was often difficult for me to find a new flat coz when I told my name they even ended the call in a sudden without comments. It's still a long way for Germany to be really tolerant.
13:36 August 25, 2011 by oldMoslin
Racism /Arrogance bringing Germany down and down. German are not realizing that. As many companies leaving this country for unnecessary bureaucracy and unnecessary complexity.

I have also faced many time not getting a flat that was promised. And did not even the racist landlord called that he is not giving the flat.
14:09 August 25, 2011 by Big Bad Wolf
When I see threads of this particular genre,I am reminded of the fact that so called "racism" is certainly not the exclusive preserve of any particular ethnicity.What about the blatant killing of White South African farmers in the Republic of South Africa? Wouldn`t those blatant and egregious killings qualify as being the most repugnant acts of racism imaginable?The black fellow involved in this incident should have kept his cool and reported the situation to the appropriate authority but to make a complete fool of himself by banging aggressively on the door and demanding accountability only weakened his position in my opinion.And why should tolerance be encouraged only in the Western countries? I want to see the Middle East,China,India and others embrace tolerance and acceptance as well.I would say,in all candor,Germany whilst not perfect demonstrates more tolerance for foreigners than almost any other country in the world.
14:36 August 25, 2011 by ibth123
Since when is Neger a curse word? It is the German word for Negro, just like in Mexico, people use it to identify a race.

Besides that foreigners act like they own the country. Maybe they should start respect the foreign country as what it is, but like someone here stated already. It is the social system that draws them and then they want to be treated like kings. If you don't like it, go home, wherever you came from. By the way , I didn't like it and I was a German and I left. And I surely don't act like this in the country I live in now.
14:46 August 25, 2011 by jbaker
We are all Foreigners! Our DNA is all the same. We carry genes for all colors of skin. We carry animal and plant genes. Everything is all related. Racism is a thought process of being better than another. I am glad that the Racist population is in the small minority.
14:47 August 25, 2011 by rutledm
@Big Bad Wolf......very well said. Amen.
14:51 August 25, 2011 by finanzdoktor
Another black eye for the Deutsch Volks. Too bad the bad actions of the one outweigh the many good actions of the majority which are probably never reported (the same everywhere, not just Deutschland).

Also, it would have been better if the orderly had just taken the picture and lodged the compliant. By kicking the door, while understandable, does make him appear a bit violent himself. But, this does not in anyway condone the actions of the train driver.

Lastly, ibth123 questions the use of the German word "Neger." What they seem to have forgotten was that it was not the word, but how it was used on the train's PA system (shows intent on the part of the train driver to use the word in a harmful and demeaning manner).
15:00 August 25, 2011 by klaus stoiber
@big bad wolf,

i was in south africa already and white south africans need to stop exploiting their farm employees.Stop paying them in alcohol and cigarettes,speak to them like humans then you will see less farm murders.

Your statement of "please feel sorry for us" doesnt hold water.When u treat other humans with dignity and respect then respect is returned to you.

Stop potraying yourselves as victims.
15:38 August 25, 2011 by catjones
ibth123...a colleague of mine asked me to define a bigot. Thanks.
15:39 August 25, 2011 by skog
Neger or not, if you want to be accepted, you shouldn't pull stunts like that. Imagine... 2 or 3 HUNDRED people have to wait, while this guy's girlfriend saunters on to the train. That would really make my blood boil too!
15:41 August 25, 2011 by oldMoslin
@big bad wolf :"The black fellow involved in this incident should have kept his cool and reported the situation to the appropriate authority but to make a complete fool of himself by banging aggressively on the door and demanding accountability only weakened his position in my opinion"\

If he had not banged the door and if he were silent then this racist driver will be encouraged and doing the same every day. And this black fellow who bought the ticket does not deserve to be treated like d that. Or does he?!!!

Assume for a moment that this Black fellow did not bang the door, then where would he file his complain? And what if the people who seating in the office (where to give the comaplians) are same chicky racists and won't believe that. Then!.

This black fello is a huming being ( unlike the racist dog ), and human being has a limit of patience.everyday he is being discriminated but the dog diod not learn the lesson. So when the dog bite him (kicekd him as this is a premitive human german dog), then he took the picture.

Thanks to the newspapers that is brought by the civilized liberators to Germany that printed the news and we are writing here.
17:58 August 25, 2011 by Johnne
Some people should thank God that this incident didn´t happen to me

I´m sure I´m the one who´ll be charged for assualt .. see beating! :-))
20:18 August 25, 2011 by karenandklaus
Yes, it is generally true that when non-whites are living in a white country, they do face some sort of racism. On the other hand, when the whites live in a non-white country, they are treated like "GOD" and superior. The whites rarely experience racism so they are generally clueless as to how it feels to be discriminated. Speaking from personal experiences of my other half.
20:57 August 25, 2011 by xoxoxo
I am a non-white living in Germany and It was already my personal observation that many bahn conductors go straight for whoever looks foreign. I was treated like a criminal by one conductor recently despite the fact that I had personally purchased my ticket from the ticket counter to be sure I paid the correct fare. He was so beyond rude, rolling his eyes, exchanging 'looks' with other German passengers. In my frustration I struggled to speak German and switched to English. He refused to speak English back despite the fact that I later heard him making a flawless announcement in English. I wanted to get his name, but we were in such a rush to catch a flight that I had no time, and I was also worried that he might try and slap me with a fine for having, according to him, the wrong ticket. I did not even think of snapping a picture. That would have been great. I am going back to the station this weekend to explain the situation and to find out if the ticket counter entered the wrong code or if the conductor truly just wanted to be a jerk. Although the conductor never whispered a single racial comment, I have never in my life encountered such treatment. I really was made to feel like a second class citizen. You truly would have had to been there to get what I mean. I honestly believe the incident was racially motivated, and I have never been one to play the race card. My German husband says the bahn folk treat everyone bad, but funny that I've only seen the bad come out when the customer is anything other than German.
21:27 August 25, 2011 by omnash
Some human beings will drive themselves crazy for the most meaningless reasons, and try to take the rest of the world with them. Germans are human, ergo. . .
22:02 August 25, 2011 by charlenej
Big Bad Wolf, Skog, ibth123.: Really? Really? People with brown skin should expect and put up with this treatment? Really? People of color have been on the low end of the totem pole just about everywhere white people are since ...since forever. But yes, let's forget that and do the "But they're racist, too!" thing. This isn't about trading stories and who is "worse" (and really, do you want to go there?), it's about this one instance.

Someone running for a train and holding it open for their girlfriend deserves to be verbally insulted OVER THE LOUDSPEAKER of a train? Really? He deserved that? You've never run for a train? You never held the door?

Call it what it is....you three are upset because this black man had the nerve to be "uppity" as southern white folks used to say. The nerve to do something thousands of Germans do everyday without being called out of their name. And the nerve to knock on someone's door and ask for an apology.

Instead of acknowledging that this was a horrible experience, one that isn't indicative of all Germans (I'm sure many many Germans are appalled by this), you say: 1) well, look what those other black people do 2) he made those people wait on the train - I would have done the same and 3) if you don't like it ("it" meaning being verbally attacked) then leave. Wow. True ignorance in real time. I thought about using the term "racist" but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Admittedly though part of me is thinking, "If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, then..."
23:34 August 25, 2011 by Englishted

Being preached at by someone from Sri lanka which has just finished a civil war based on race and was only over with the complete defeat of the Tamils.

I find somewhat strange .
23:51 August 25, 2011 by yourholiness
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
00:39 August 26, 2011 by aletheia93
yourholiness: feels abused or is actually abused. That makes a difference. I think an assault is a crime in any civilized country. i suggest you to stay in germany forever, do not interact with aliens, do not go for holidays abroad, do not even think about working abroad. I hope you would not mind to be physically threatened by a bus/tram driver in poland (for example).
02:23 August 26, 2011 by dirving71
@ BigBadWolf,

What is your point exactly?

"When I see threads of this particular genre,I am reminded of the fact that so called "racism" is certainly not the exclusive preserve of any particular ethnicity"

Nowhere in this article does it say that only Germans are racist. However, the best way to deal with racism is to confront it right when it occurs.

"What about the blatant killing of White South African farmers in the Republic of South Africa? Wouldn`t those blatant and egregious killings qualify as being the most repugnant acts of racism imaginable?"

As another German might say, das macht den Braten nicht fett. Racism in all forms is wrong and reprehensible. Hopefully, you are not trying to condone the driver's behavior by pointing out bad behavior by someone else. Two wrongs do not make a right.

"The black fellow involved in this incident should have kept his cool and reported the situation to the appropriate authority but to make a complete fool of himself by banging aggressively on the door and demanding accountability only weakened his position in my opinion. "

Seriously, are you trying to criticize a guy because he demanded to be treated with respect and dignity. It did not weaken his position. He displayed inner strength and showed that he is not a weak person. Racism is best dealt with head on and immediately.

"And why should tolerance be encouraged only in the Western countries? I want to see the Middle East,China,India and others embrace tolerance and acceptance as well."

Once again, you are trying to justify more bad behavior with bad behavior. Tolerance should be embraced by all. However, Germany or any other country does not get off the hook for intolerance because another country chooses to be intolerant.

"I would say,in all candor,Germany whilst not perfect demonstrates more tolerance for foreigners than almost any other country in the world. "

This reminds me of a Chris Rock joke about a man bragging about taking care of his kids. His response: "You are supposed to." You want a pat on the back or a cookie for something that you SHOULD be doing anyway?
03:04 August 26, 2011 by yourholiness
@ aletheia93

That's precisely my point. If I felt abused in another land, never mind threatened, while on holiday I would never go back. Its called voting with your feet.
06:03 August 26, 2011 by padu
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
07:02 August 26, 2011 by melbournite

Being preached at by someone who comes from a country - as suggested by your nick - that engaged in centuries of slave trading and raped the entire sub-continent in order to enrich itself, somewhat strange also. Especially since we know that each individual is responsible for all the crimes carried out by their government in perpetuity.

Actually I am proud of the original guy who stood up to racism. No one has to tolerate racism anywhere. Its a *human* right not a *national* right, and guess what.. human rights take precedence
09:30 August 26, 2011 by freechoice
while we are on the topic of discrimination, i was informed a down syndrome kid was humiliated in from of her ballet class by her teacher who said she had down syndrome. where can I file a complaint to make sure she will not do that again in future?
10:19 August 26, 2011 by michael4096
It is interesting that incidents like this are rare enough to still make the news in Germany - most countries consider it so "dog bites man"ish for it to be non-news. Remember that this country has some of the strongest anti-racism and anti-discrimination laws going. Incidents like this one highlight that, though Germany still has a way to go it is leagues ahead of many other countries - there is much more racism in this forum than on the streets outside
10:41 August 26, 2011 by yourholiness
Perhaps readers on this forum encounter more "racism " on this forum than on the streets outside because anonymity encourages posters to express what they really feel. And lets not have political correctness have us confuse racism with important discussion of many of the many disadvantages of immigration of foreign populations into germany.
11:05 August 26, 2011 by LiberalGuy

You are an IMMIGRANT! Just because you are an white american doesn't cahnge the fact you are an immigrant. Unless you are willing to be the first one on the next plane out of here, then you have no right to try dictate any anit immigration discussion, especially when you yourself are an immigrant. Gez most people on here complain about immigration while completely forgetting the fact that they themselves are immigrants. It doesn't matter how long you have been here, 1, 2 , 20 years you still immigrated to this country. Now if you feel the need to complain about every immigrant in this country (a lot who have been here longer than you) then talk with your feet and leave.
11:26 August 26, 2011 by MonkeyMania
@michael4096: I don't know what rock you crawled out from under but the sort of racism shown by this train driver is not considered as non-news from where I come from and I doubt it is considered as non-news in most countries or states.

Considering how many Germans one finds in most parts of the world working, holidaying, living, I am surprised that anyone can consider this to be non-news in Germany. In fact, the vast majority of Germans do not like this sort of behaviour or would tolerate it themselves if inflicted with it when abroad, I really cannot understand where you get this idea from. Maybe it is non-news in some corners of the world, but it does not belong in the civilized corners of the world.
11:33 August 26, 2011 by kiaat
hi all you hater-freaks!

this poor brown was suffering from some racism for sure. but the larger issue here is: Germany is not a nice place to live. Most of us brown, black and white are here to work. we are here for the money. not the nice nosy ladies down the hall or the polite tram driver. or the dirty robots in the Penny Markt. if we dont like it then we get out. most germans 1) only care about your cultural heritage if they know more about it than you 2) dont give a toss if you like their way as it is their way or get out 3) are no strangers to ethnic based discrimination as we have seen from the not so distant past.. lets face it, they want it all baby! from the fall of rome, to WW number 1 and 2 thank you and now with total EU economic domination.. they are here to stay.

you have two choices: get out or deal.

we (2 white europeans) are getting out as soon as the fat money contract is up. 1,5 years and counting every day. this place is only for making money and i suggest you dont try to change them.... wasted energy. oh and i forgot nasty dress sense! and their 3 fav words? cheap, cheaper and cheapest... this is no way to live people!!!

love n light ya'll!!!!
12:29 August 26, 2011 by Cambsdon
It doesn't matter where you are/go in the world, one thing is guaranteed - you will encounter numerous miserable, bigoted, train/bus drivers.

They're all over-paid for the work that they do, and yet they're the most miserable people on earth.
14:03 August 26, 2011 by LecteurX
Terrible story. It speaks volumes that some people in this thread still manage to blame the poor guy who got assaulted and kicked. Stupidity abounds everywhere, and on the internet no less than in the Munich S-Bahn.
14:40 August 26, 2011 by jbaker
@ Kiaat is right about peoples attitudes. This is not only a Germany problem, it is a World Wide Problem.

Stop Hating!

Enjoy your Day!
15:03 August 26, 2011 by trevzns
@ Big Bad Wolf

Black peoples have been keeping their cools in Africa, the US and India for a very longtime and still counting. This could be a contributing factor as to why there are so many Europeans and Arabs living today.

I am amazed by the attitudes and abilities of many Black peoples to enjoy life without the fear of strangers and other personal and cultural insecurities; in compassion to the epidemic levels of xenophobia and fear mongering that exists around the world today.

I would encourage more Black people not only to demand respect as human beings, but to also adopt the attitudes and practices use by European groups demanding accountability from generation to generation for the acts of genocide and the holocausts during their wars for world denomination.

The disgusting practice of Apartheid used by the White South Africans, along with the diabolical tactics of genocide and the holocaust of human slavery perpetrated upon the African young children and teenagers by the Arabs, Europeans and Americans, fail¦#39;s in compassion to which you make reference.

Sing that song of apathy and reverse discrimination, racism to those of your mindset.
16:46 August 26, 2011 by parisius
No wonder at all. Germans are racist. It's their way to hide their (very deep and very numerous) psycho-probs. Some of them are very nice people, but generally they're a very very ill and crank people. Racism is their speciality - they export it to all the Western world.
18:24 August 26, 2011 by McNair Kaserne
At the end of the day, you have the option to leave Germany and either return to your country of origin where everyone is like you, or at least go somewhere that people do not mind you. Multi-culturalism does not work, not only in Germany but everywhere else as well. The world will be a more peaceful place when all peoples have their own land and to large degree, stay there.
18:32 August 26, 2011 by Major B
You know, the comments on this article aren't as bad as I expected. Surprising tolerance displayed and a sense of right and wrong. Even the Apartheid lover, Big Bad Wolf, had a point -- there is much more tolerance in Germany(and Europe) compared to Middle Eastern and Far Eastern countries.

Sorry, with the lack of religious tolerance in the Middle East and elsewhere, it is hard to take complaints about racism from people from those areas seriously.
18:32 August 26, 2011 by paperclipsK
Am fascinated by the angst and vitriol these threads lead to. The actual content of the article is lost in sandbox name-calling and tit-for-tat. Grow up.

Every country in the world has racism, some more than others. Simply ask Yourself if You are a racist and move on from there.

And, Get a life....
20:02 August 26, 2011 by charlenej
@McNair Kaserne - the only time "multiculturalism doesn't work" is when racists and xenophobes get in the way.

Of course multiculturalism works. We are all humans living on one planet. This is 2011, things are more global now, people are sharing information in ways they were never able to before. This is a good thing. It is.

And the whole "world would be more peaceful if people stayed on their own land"? I'd say that's an awfully convenient thing to say NOW, isn't it. I mean after Europe exploited just about every people and continent. NOW we need to stay in our own place. Ooookay *eye roll*
00:41 August 27, 2011 by Bigbobswinden
We are all the same. If you assume a generation is 20yrs and your family members double each generation then 21 generations ( 520yrs) back you have a million relations. Now go back a million years and we are all brothers and sisters,
02:48 August 27, 2011 by yourholiness
@ LiberalGuy

Of course I'm an immigrant and I like it in germany and no one treats me badly because I'm not german. Which is exactly my point. If you feel abused or insulted because you are an immigrant why stick around? Move to someplace that feels more welcoming.

@ charlenej

Multiculturalism doesn't work, the chancellor of germany told us so recently.

So did Khalid Aldawsari, the would-be jihad mass murderer in Lubbock, Texas; or Muhammad Hussain, the would-be jihad bomber in Baltimore; or Mohamed Mohamud, the would-be jihad bomber in Portland; or Nidal Hasan, the Fort Hood jihad mass-murderer; or Faisal Shahzad, the would-be Times Square jihad mass-murderer; or Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, the Arkansas military recruiting station jihad murderer; or Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the would-be Christmas airplane jihad bomber; or Muhammad Atta, Anjem Chaudary, Omar Bakri, Abu Hamza, Abu Bakar Bashir, Zawahiri, Zarqawi, bin Laden and all the rest.
08:22 August 27, 2011 by LiberalGuy

No i think the issue here is you consider yourself the 'right' kind of immigrant. You have the right skin color. You don't worship the wrong god. And the only reason you are so anti islamic is because a couple of stupid turkish kids stole you wallet one time. Gez let it go....

My point stands, if you can't be so anti immigration when you yourself are an immigrant, but I guess you qualify it as a stand against non white immigration.
09:04 August 27, 2011 by Johnne

Wonderful contribution, you made a very very good point.


You´re still getting it wrong. Is there anything that links to terrorism in the article? maybe the black guy is even a chrisitian? we all know your problem, just like LiberalGuy pointed out now..you are an immigrant but just because you´re white, you think you have the right to stay here. You see, many of the colored people you see have more rights to stay here than you. Some of them are Germans by birth, and some by naturalization. Some have German spouses & kids, some came here years ago to study and work, and some are new immigrants whom will settle here and raise families. Black people can´t stop coming to europe because of the history that binds Africa & Europe. If you study your history, you´ll realize that I´m right.

@big bad wolf,

I have nothing to say to you more than reminding you that you are an immigrant too so think before you write because you might be talking to yourself.
10:02 August 27, 2011 by MonkeyMania
@yourholiness: I am white European and entitled now to German citizenship which I will not bother to take. I do not consider myself more entitled to be in Germany than someone with a different skin colour. I don't care if someone is Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Atheist or whatever. The world is a mixed world and it is better for us to mix together and get on instead of being isolated and fighting.
12:36 August 27, 2011 by LecteurX
@ yourholiness.

"Multiculturalism doesn't work, the chancellor of germany told us so recently."

Yeah right. Since when have politicians told us the truth? The same Kanzlerin told us as well that the German nuclear plants were 100% safe and it was only sensible to extend the us of them for a couple more decades, until Fukushima happened and some spectacular flip-flopping followed suit. She was also adamant she wouldn't bail out Greece, guess what, it happened more than twice already (I lost the count). Not that I personally disapprove of these measures, but I did wonder at the inconsistency between the discourse and the deeds. We had quite a bunch of American leaders telling us that "Saddam" had WMD... 8 years later, we're still looking for them.

Ah but of course, when the Chancellor makes some easy and cheap statement about the failure of multiculturalism ahead of some elections, then it must be as true as the Gospel, I surmise.

Oh, and by the way, what do the actual mass murderers of Columbine, of Virginia Tech, of Dunblane, of Erfurt, of Winnenden, and those shooting sprees in Finland tell us about the failure of multiculturalism?

@ McNair Kaserne, excuse me, but every human has the right to be treated with dignity and not to be randomly kicked in the face by strangers, everywhere in the world. You resent the presence of dark-skinned foreigners in Germany to the point of siding with this violent racist thug actually. That tells a lot about you. You know, Germany has already tried that in the past, to drive "foreign elements" out of the country through violence and intimidation, and impunity for the perpetrators. Strangely enough, it didn't make the world any more peaceful...
12:46 August 27, 2011 by yourholiness
@ LiberalGuy

You keep ignoring what I have to say to insist on your own liberal agenda. I'll try once more.

If I emigrated to Nigeria for personal reasons or a job offer and found that I was being abused because I was christian or white I would move to somewhere more welcoming. If I were black or brown and lived in Germany and felt unwelcome I would leave. Got it? Good.

And stop running this tired line about Turkish kids and a wallet. Immigration is an issue because of failed multiculturalism and the clash of civilizations of which petty street crime is only a symptom.
13:04 August 27, 2011 by LiberalGuy

What liberal agenda am I pushing? I'm merely pointing out that at the heart of your passionate anti immigration/anti multi-cutralism stance, is a very personal incident that happened to you, and that maybe you should let that incident go so you can rejoin the real world.

And as far as your example is concerned, I can name a few neighbourhoods here in Brandenburg or Saxony where you wouldn't feel very welcome at all due to the fact you are a native english speaker, but I guess you wouldn't feel compelled to leave then would you. No you would probably just put it down to narrow minded people. All 'isms' are idiotic and don't have any boundaries, it's up to us to stamp them out. Because one day you might find yourself at the wrong end of it.
13:24 August 27, 2011 by yourholiness
@ LiberalGuy

Oh, please, yes, some turkish kids tried to grab my wallet a few years ago and I told them I would beat the ever loving crap out of them if they kept at it. I got over that 5 minutes later. There are countries and neighborhoods in every city I wouldn't want to live. So I don't. Why don't the posters who complain about being treated badly show the same good sense? Why live where you are unwelcome?
14:01 August 27, 2011 by LiberalGuy
and why should the good people who haven't done anything wrong move? Why should people have to put up with crap?
14:33 August 27, 2011 by yourholiness
Well exactly!

If you are being abused go somewhere you are treated better. You can't change how people feel about things no matter how much pc propaganda you manufacture. Most folks see through that immediately.
16:01 August 27, 2011 by charlenej
@yourholiness - multiculturalism doesn't work because Angela Merkel and a bunch of terrorists says it doesn't?? Oh come on! You've got to do better than that. First of all that was BS when Angela Merkel said it. It works in a lot of places. It even works here in Germany. And when it doesn't (like in the case stated in the article) it's because some racist xenophobe has an issue, not because of everyone else. Any failure of multiculturalism is the fault of ignorant people, not the failure of the concept. Last I looked the world is very multicultural, full of interfaith and interracial partnerships, friendships, workplaces, marriages, etc. It works everywhere except in the minds of racists...and jihadists. And I can't believe you quoted them! Of course, terrorists would say that. They are all crazycakes looking for a reason to be angry and blow up sh*t. Of course they hate multiculturalism. Don't tell me you want to go siding with the terrorists now. Tsk tsk tsk.

A man was called a deragotory name over the loudspeaker of a train because he held open the door for a few seconds AND (the real reason) had a skin color the conductor didn't approve of. That is this story. That people even came here to argue that this is not racist and/or the man deserved that, AND should leave if he doesn't like it, is unbelieveable to me. A person does not deserve that. This conductor has a problem. And anyone who agrees with him does too. I don't have to leave because of that. I stay and make him see that he has a problem. He changes or we all live in the hope his breed of ignorance will die with his generation. Jeezus, if we'd listened to you all, there would have never been a civil rights movement. I guess black people would have just gathered up all that money they had and hired a boat to build a life back in Africa, a continent they had no ties to because some a**holes chained them up and took them away hundreds of years before. Yeah, that would have been the right solution *rolls eyes* Though I'm pretty sure yourholiness and BigBadWolf would have been the kind of folks who would have loved the idea of building a whole rich nation on the hard work of slave labor and then sending them back "where they came from" once they got too uppity, right?
16:16 August 27, 2011 by yourholiness
@ charlenej

If you are determined to stay and make the conductor and all those who feel like him see that they have a problem then you are the one that has the problem.

Multiculturalism works because you say it works? Good luck with that. Angela, muslim "extremists", and a lot of the world know better. They can see the proof happening all around them - the dumbing down and fragmentation of society, the devaluation of labor and the degradation of culture by many folks barely out of the stone age.

You have a tremendous sales problem on your hands. Just sayin.
17:27 August 27, 2011 by charlenej
What do mean by "multiculturalism"? Maybe we're not talking about the same thing because I get the feeling you are focusing on Muslims (which you seem to be equating automatically with backwards terrorists) and the West. I mean, people of many cultures living together in society. Have you been to San Francisco, NYC, Chicago? Most college campuses in America? Any number of suburbs in America? They are full of people people of all cultures and faiths and races living together and doing pretty well. It's not perfect, of course there are some kinks, but even racially and ethnically homogenous places aren't perfect. But I'd rather live somewhere vibrant and full of diversity, then some village somewhere where everyone is old, conservative, racist and scared of change, scared of music different from theirs, food different from theirs, people different from those that look like them, who never want anything to change or progress. And isn't that the same thing you are accusing the terrorists of - living in their own little world and refusing to come up to where the rest of us are? You are being just like them.
18:56 August 27, 2011 by yourholiness
By progress I take it you mean the establishment of Sharia law and disrespect for women, both of which the muslim holy book commands of every believer. Yes, I'm refusing to recommend that we all descend to the lowest human common denominator. You are welcome to seek it elsewhere if you feel the need to retrogress. When and if you do you might remember that there is one big difference between people like me and terrorists. I don't recommend violence.
19:46 August 27, 2011 by marimay
Yeah, you are definitely full of it, yourholymess.
20:25 August 27, 2011 by charlenej
Dude. Advocating Sharia law =/= multiculturalism. And what on God's green earth does Sharia law have to do with the article? I get that you are scared of the Muslims taking over Europe. I don't agree with that assessment but that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about racism and whether or not people who are not white are allowed to live in Germany and be respected as equals regardless of skin color, always assuming that they are law-abiding citizens and respect human rights. That's all. And you said, "No, they shouldn't expect it. I don't expect it in "their" land (I don't know why not, but I assume because you think they are all savages and are unable to be "civilized"? And I don't know where you mean, but I assume anywhere predominantly non-white - South America, Africa, the Middle East?), so they shouldn't expect it here."

Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect until they themselves personally show otherwise. You do, I do, we all do. And humans are capable of this. Not all, but most and we should expect them to do so and hold them accountable when they don't. Hence human rights laws that are against many of the things that you and I both agree are unacceptable.

But realize, Sharia law, Muslims taking over, women being burned, whatever you are seeing coming in the West's future, did not come up in this article. It's all the stuff you brought up. What about this man? What did he do wrong that warranted this racist response?

And for what it's worth, liberals don't advocate for terrorists or for Sharia law. We generally don't bring it up because we don't think it's an issue. I don't see Germany becoming an Islamic state. I think it's paranoid. It's what people like that loco dude who shot all those kids in Norway thinks. It's not about being PC or whatever you talk about it. I don't even really understand what the conservative right means when they use PC with that smug tone. Asking that people not be degraded or disrespected for no reason is PC?

I'm starting to think that given the opportunity to anonymously ride horseback through Germany with a white hood and a lit cross to round up brown people, a number of you would jump on it without hesitation. I find that sad and scary for myself and for my children.
23:07 August 27, 2011 by yourholiness
Dude? What does that mean? You mean as in dude ranch?

I'm quite sure you don't bring up muslim extremists or Sharia law in your attempts to push multiculturalism but of course its always the big elephant in the room whether you admit it or not. I'm not sure how many german immigrants are muslim but I think its a fair guess that a good proportion are. And I do have a problem with a religion that commands its followers to kill or enslave non believers. In my opinion immigrants should exhibit the proper humility and gratitude for being allowed to take part in a more advanced society. Instead the muslim holy book *commands* them to subdue unbelievers by any means necessary (especially Jews by the way). Read the Koran if you doubt me.

Unlike you I think that situation is unacceptable. So is rounding up brown or black people on horseback or any other way. What is necessary on the other hand is closing the gate before the horse is stolen.
06:07 August 28, 2011 by Nicholas35

Funny that you mention a handfull of attacks by Muslim extremists in the US but you fail to mention the vast majority of Muslims in the US who live peaceful and productive lives. You fail to mention any of the attacks carried out by other political or relgious extremists (Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, etc.) - the American Neo-Nazi who killed inter-racial couples, murders of abortion doctors, bombings of clinics, etc. Of course those folks were all white and professed to be Christians so you can't exploit those tragedies to justify your warped wold view. there are over a billion Muslims in the world, the extremist are a small number of them. If you judge all Muslims by the extremists then you must also judge all Christians by their extremists, all Jews by their extremists and so on, otherwise you are just a hypocrite. As for the rest of what you have say regarding your hysteria and paranoia regarding sharia law, put down the propaganda (Robert Spencer is a propagandist, not a scholar) log off of Pam Geller's site and read some works by real scholars and real historians.
10:15 August 28, 2011 by yourholiness
@ Nicholas35

Yes, there are muslims who lead productive lives in spite of their ideology of subordination and repression. Try going public criticizing Mohammad and see how long you last however. The scholar Robert Spencer receives death threats almost daily. Ask the paranoid Salman Rusdie about fatwas seeking his death. Then tell us about all the Presbyterians apprehended for trying to blow up airplanes and trains. All muslims may not be terrorists but the overwhelming percentage of terrorists are muslim.
11:25 August 28, 2011 by arbeitsbiene3
@ yourholiness

The pot calling the kettle black....American political and multiculturalism grandstanding.

The USA is a nation of multicultural immigrants and has been that way from day one.
11:42 August 28, 2011 by MonkeyMania
@yourholiness: You are showing your ignorance. Fundamental christians are equally dangerous as fundamental muslims or fundamental "any religion". That is not a problem of multi-culturalism. That is a problem of intolerance and lack of willingness to allow others to have different views, beliefs, customs. It's the beaking down of these barriers that is needed, not the rebuilding of them. Maybe you would like the Berlin wall to be rebuilt? Maybe you would like to relive the atrocities of the 2nd world war. Maybe you would like to try out ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia again? Countless examples of how division and intolerance don't work. I would much prefer to go ahead with multi-cultural ism than go through any of that again.
19:56 August 28, 2011 by trevzns
@ yourholiness #62

Where should the indigenous American Indians and African Americans have moved? They where born in The USA, perhaps before your immigrant ancestors arrived?

Oh, my bad, that¦#39;s right, the American Indians were provided with reservations and the African Americans classified as livestock and later as second-class citizens with Civil Rights in the mid-1960¦#39;s.

And, you talk about pc propaganda, while you spuee your double standard ant-immigrant and multiculturalism failure ideologies.
02:38 August 29, 2011 by MonkeyMania
Funny. Another article from a week ago about Deutsche Bahn staff grumpy and demotivated. http://www.thelocal.de/money/20110816-36983.html

Seems to be a trend showing here.
03:01 August 29, 2011 by yourholiness
@ trevzns

The indians and the blacks should have thrown the europeans out of north america. They couldn't. Looks like the shoe is on the other foot now.
13:05 August 29, 2011 by arbeitsbiene3
@ yourholiness

The shoe is securely on the other foot…OMG!

Happy Feet, the untold His Story of the U.S.A., now in 3D and coming soon to Blu-ray and HD-DVD.

Hold on to your wallets and shoes.
14:35 August 29, 2011 by yourholiness
and your culture.
14:54 August 29, 2011 by trevzns
@ yourholiness

How is the shoe on the other foot American multiculturalism working out?

Change is happening in the U.S., one baby at a time plus 3 or more, by the brown, yellow and black immigrant populations.

Depending how the Americans classify themselves in the future, the U.S. could have a few more races and subcultures?

I was taught and believe there is only one human race. The Americans have a National and global reclassification of race and cultures I cannot understand?

I do have a clear understanding for the classifications for the N-words and many other variants, porch monkey, spear chucker, coon etc.

Maybe you have a better understanding of the race and cultural classifications by the Europeans and Americans?
16:03 August 29, 2011 by yourholiness
>>How is the shoe on the other foot American multiculturalism working out?
17:20 August 29, 2011 by trevzns
@ yourholiness

That was my question Oracle.

But, I am somewhat familiar with the classification of White people, American Indians, Negro, Black, African American and Asian.

Who are the Caucasian people and from which civilization or continents have the Caucasoid peoples originated?

Who are the non-Hispanic White population in the U.S., and what parts of our known world do the non-Hispanic White population and their ancestors come from?

It seems this group population is shifting dramatically downward, but no mention of the Caucasoid populations?
20:46 August 29, 2011 by arbeitsbiene3
@ yourholiness

ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia (AP) - Libyan rebels may be indiscriminately killing black people because they have confused innocent migrant workers with mercenaries, the chairman of the African Union said Monday, citing the fears as one reason the continental body has not recognized opposition forces as the nation's interim government.

"NTC seems to confuse black people with mercenaries," said AU chairman Jean Ping, referring to the rebels' National Transitional Council. "All blacks are mercenaries. If you do that it means (that the) one-third of the population of Libya which is black is also mercenaries. They are killing people, normal workers, mistreating them."

21:57 August 29, 2011 by trevzns
@ yourholiness

And btw,

You often speak about, education, religion, socio-economics and the negative symptoms of multiculturalism and the lack of civilized behavior of some immigrants in Germany and throughout Europe.

While the shoe on the other foot immigrant Europeans of America, many of who are politicians and other educated professionals, using the words educated and professional loosely.

Descend to the lowest level of disrespect for the man, his family, and the office of the President of the U.S.A., by using disparaging remarks such as, Tar-Baby and Sambo and Monkey.... Wow, what is this really all about?

I expect this behavior from the Japanese, some Americans, some Europeans, North Africans, the middle East, European Mexicans and the Europeans of Portugal and Spain.

Where they have children books, sing and teach this horsemanor to the young minds of next generation of potential world immigrants.
21:58 August 29, 2011 by yourholiness
How is the shoe on the other foot American multiculturalism working out?

Not very well unfortunately, its one of the reasons the US in in decline. America has been pursuing a policy of cheap labor regardless of future consequences. Many of the folks the US imports can hardly read and write, no prizes for guessing how that effects the quality of life and the future of the country. If I were a rich american I wouldn't want to pay the cost of educating the rest of central and south america either, never mind the welfare price tag.
02:12 August 31, 2011 by jgrantsf
I live in NYC.

Once I was on the subway here, and the driver or conductor came over the loudspeaker and said very clearly - "White people suck"

Everyone looked around, then went back to their business.

Later that day, I called the transit authority to complain. They didn't believe me and refused to take the complaint seriously.

The story obviously never made the newspapers.

So this stuff goes on, but only gets media attention when it's white against black. The media is not interested in the reverse. They would have you believe that blacks are always the victims and whites are always the racists.

But actually, the reverse happens a lot more.

Racism is a 2 way street, but the media will have you believe that the traffic is just moving in one direction.

To me this is not even newsworthy.
12:26 September 8, 2011 by Agapisou
Oh so he called you a Neger. In my opinion that is not even a bad word. It was made bad. I am being called a Moosbueffel all the time. It is an insult as well but it's what people call us. I think if every foreigner learnt something about the German culture/mentality, immigration would work better. Especially, the Bavarian one, where tradition means a lot. I live in Nuremberg, in the center of town. Just foreigners around me. Some are cool and have adapted; others just want to live the life they are used to, and thus just mingle with their own kind. To befriend a Bavarian, you have to get to know them. It takes a long time, they are afraid of everything alien; but once you get to the core, you have a friend for live. Hell, we don't even like us among our own kind. Bavaria and Franconia (even the latter is in Bavaria) hate each others guts. Franconians always emphazise that they are not Bavarians. Just look at it a bit more relaxed. And learn to identify yourself with the culture of the country you live in. When I lived in the US, I too had to learn a different behaviour.
15:48 September 24, 2012 by franconia
The German word Neger racist? Since when? Paranoid are many in Germany ! How does Afrika-Deutscher sound to you? Deutsch-Afrikaner maybe?
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