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Norway killer considered Merkel a target

The Local · 25 Jul 2011, 09:03

Published: 25 Jul 2011 09:03 GMT+02:00

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In a racist manifesto posted online, Anders Breivik mentioned the conservative Christian Democrat Merkel, the centre-left Social Democratic Party (SPD), the socialist Left party, and the environmentalist Greens as potential attack targets, the daily Hamburger Morgenpost reported on Monday.

Meanwhile, German authorities were investigating whether Breivik may have had contact with Germany’s extreme-right scene, particularly in Hamburg. Neo-nazis there are known to have strong links with Scandinavia.

Wolfgang Bosbach, a Bundestag member with Merkel’s centre-right Christian Democratic Union said the Norway shooting made him worried about far-right extremists in Germany.

“Such hate-filled groups and people,” exist in Germany too, he told the daily Mitteldeutsche Zeitung.

But at the same time, German political leaders have fretted that there’s little that can be done if a person wishes to create chaos.

Terrorism expert Rolf Tophoven said such attacks cannot be avoided in an open and liberal society.

“An attack like in Norway would have been difficult to prevent in Germany, he told Dortmund’s Ruhr Nachrichten.

Amid the fear, some German leaders were calling for new government powers in order to confront the perceived threat.

Story continues below…

CDU Bundestag member Hans-Peter Uhl said the government should more extensively monitor internet and phone conversations.

The Local/DAPD/mdm

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

09:33 July 25, 2011 by Asgarli
"An attack like in Norway would have been difficult to prevent in Germany, he told Dortmund's Ruhr Nachrichten.

Awesome, I feel so safe now...
11:36 July 25, 2011 by Jibzy
Me too. And yeah..thank you for giving potential attackers a better idea.
12:11 July 25, 2011 by wood artist
It's that pesky, age-old problem called "prior restraint." It would be so much easier if the government could lock you up simply because you think thoughts that aren't officially approved. Then people like this guy would likely be unable to carry out their terrible deeds.

Unfortunately, the government can't do that, so sometimes people do crazy things in a free society.

Fortunately the government can't do that, so most of us get to live relatively free and enjoy the freedoms we cherish. Germany has had experience with both versions of this, and I'm betting the current system still looks better to most everyone.

12:31 July 25, 2011 by wenddiver
Wow, this guys more than a little out of his gord, all these modifications to the fifle and he still has a wooden stock and leather sling on a rifle that he is all dressed up to use in a SCUBA insertion. Does he think that Weapon Sight is going to work after being imersed in the cold water of Norway???

If that wasn't strange enough, he is wearing a Red Knight's Templar Cross on a Diving wet suite?????

He also claims to be doing this as a Christain, but believes in Free Masonry??? A little conflicted perhaps??

Does anbody recognize what the other patces say on the wet Suite?
12:51 July 25, 2011 by Landmine

Yeah, they all say "LOOSER"....
13:19 July 25, 2011 by lunchbreak
The responsibility, now that this nutcase has brought the issue to the fore, is on the part of the european governments to stop ignoring the way many of their citizens feel about the islamification of europe.
13:39 July 25, 2011 by freechoice
this is a simple story of someone who has never experienced love, and being lonely in vast expanse of forrested region, could make someone a little bit looney. it's happening in US, Germany and now Norway.
15:04 July 25, 2011 by Louis Prince

You have to remember that religion is a requirement for free masonry, although free masonry and Christianity is very conflicting as you said. But I dont think free masons would kill people and let you know they did it, on the other hand the templar cross was born in the crusades and most likely before the crusaders became evil knight's templars. It is possible that it represents a crusade type warrior rather than Free Masonry.
15:10 July 25, 2011 by oldWine
My understanding is these:

This man wanted to kill many people and that is what he did. He did it and showing that he has some "intellectual motive" but in reality he a is a coward.

It is a pity killing 100 people this guy will get life sentence ( I am afraid have learnt that in Norway they don't have a life sentence ! only maximum term of being jailed is 21 years).

Time has come to change that law and allow Judicial and law enforcing agencies to have a life sentence.

But before life sentence this guy should suffer and a cruel punishment on him should be made ( this is a request to the norwegian govt).

His back skin should be removed and enough salt and chilly powder should be put. And cure him in well treatment and when he is fit for life sentence do the same ( skinning off and salt and chilly) and so on till 100 times.

Other wise this bstrd won't understand how much pain the victims had and the family is having ( the people who lost their relatives) and after 100th time shoot him infront of crowd. So that other chicky bstrds like him learn and stop doing this nonsense.

Police should also find out very smartly who are the other poeple behind of doing such a big massacre. And should be punished (only the salt and chilly punishment) . Because it cannot be that sucha plan is planned by one guy.
15:39 July 25, 2011 by GolfAlphaYankee
lunchbreak: #6: (The responsibility, now that this nutcase has brought the issue to the fore, is on the part of the european governments to stop ignoring the way many of their citizens feel about the islamification of europe.)

so now we have to accommodate the right wing agenda in order to prevent the most extreme of them to kill and bomb innocent people? is that what´re you saying? because it sure sounds that way !
15:53 July 25, 2011 by curlyhoward
How to judge and punish this guy? Easy, just find a way to extradite him to Texas. They know how to handle this type. You forgive them 1/2 hour after the hanging.
16:27 July 25, 2011 by lunchbreak
@ GolfAlphaYankee

Its not just the right wing thats concerned about immigration in europe.
16:31 July 25, 2011 by oldWine
@ GolfAlphaYankee ...what are your own concerns?

What bad and good things did immigrant bring to Europe?

If you could mention would be great.

Immigration bring prosperity of every countries examples are Canada Australia.

History shown from Europe mainly many people migrated to Aussie and Canada Usa etc for their own fortune and later they made the economy stronger of that country.

But you may have a different concern, please let us know.
16:55 July 25, 2011 by michael4096
@oldWine I think you and GolfAlphaYankee are actually on the same page

Tho' what revenge be it chilli powder or execution will do I really don't know. It won't bring victims back and it won't deter future Anders'
16:56 July 25, 2011 by GolfAlphaYankee
@oldWine: you miss read my comment. (it seems that we are on the same side of this debate). I was responding to (lunchbreak) who seemed to imply that somehow the Norwegian/European governments are also to blame because of immigration policy.
17:04 July 25, 2011 by Johnne

Yeah right...you see, no matter what you say here about mulims & colured people or even immigrants, you opinion is totally senseless and worthless.
17:05 July 25, 2011 by jbaker
He looks like the stereotypical bad guy in the movies.
17:07 July 25, 2011 by lunchbreak
@ Johnne

Thanks for your endorsement.
17:08 July 25, 2011 by curlyhoward
Execution would not be revenge. It is the proper response to an individual's action that society cannot tolerate. We should not try "to understand him" or "study" him and his motives. We should just accept that their are evil people in the world and deal with them accordingly.
17:22 July 25, 2011 by michael4096
"The responsibility, now that this nutcase has brought the issue to the fore, is on the part of the european governments to stop ignoring the way many of their citizens feel about the islamification of europe."

lunchbreak - Anders, without the commitment

So, lunchbreak, are you saying that the guy was right when he agrees with your racist rants, but wrong when he kills? Or, are you saying that he was right - full stop?
17:40 July 25, 2011 by lunchbreak
To be clear, there is no possible way to excuse what Anders Breivik did. Wether there is much concern in europe about immigration and specifically muslim immigration is a separate issue. Many people think european governments are irresponsible in continuing their current immigration policies.
18:07 July 25, 2011 by michael4096
Yes - lunchbreak - whatever - you were the one making the association, not me
19:20 July 25, 2011 by Gretl
I think what lunchbreak is trying to say is that governments who ignore the will of the people risk people taking action in their own way. Paraphrasing here - democracy is the tyranny of the populous. If the majority of a society voted to define membership into a society (by birthplace (US), by nationality of parents (DE), by religion (Isreal?)), how is it wrong? There are many EU member states that are struggling with the issue of Muslim minority groups and self-definition. If the governments keep telling the voters they aren't going to do anything about it, because that's not what nice, modern nations do, then whacko nut-jobs take action. Wouldn't it be better if governments listened to their constituents, the will of the people?
19:31 July 25, 2011 by oldWine
@ GolfAlphaYankee I am sorry I wanted to mean "Lunchbreak"

@michael4096 Yes salt and Chilly powder after taking his skin off will be a nice treatment for him and then after some days when he is again healthy then again the same nice treatment will be given till 100 times as he has killed 100 innocent people .

Why this treatment? because it will cause pain in his body. He will cry for death but death is not that easy for him. That is why.
19:41 July 25, 2011 by wenddiver
Always enjoy the comparison of the Governmts of Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the US's offer to immigrate and fill up their thousands of miles of wildernessfor loyalty to the Government with the current importation of Islamists into the crowded cities of Europe, with no loyalty to the new government.

The obligations of Citizenship versus Autocraticly being ruled should be made clearer to the new immigrants. Taxes and Military Service of course, but a real support of your Basic Law or Constitutionmust eventually must be expected.
20:28 July 25, 2011 by Jack Kerouac
"Amid the fear, some German leaders were calling for new government powers in order to confront the perceived threat. "

Great. That sounds familir, doesn't it? Let's allow the government to take more control in order to "guard" us from a perceived threat. We give them power because we're afraid, they create fear by saying we are under attack, and we are happy to relinquish our rights because they say they can keep us safe with such a measure. Easiest way for a legal coup-de-tas.
21:27 July 25, 2011 by michael4096
@Gretl - I know the theory, and it is maybe it's true about the ruling party in some of the north African states but not about immigrants in Norway or Germany. There is no silent majority of people screaming 'death to immigrants' in these countries. I know because I walk around with my eyes open, I listen to people and read the facts of what is happening instead of the propaganda.

What I see instead is the constant drip, drip of racist hate from a small minority of people claiming some backlash against immigrants. I see very loud proclamations of 'the voice of the people' from a handful of bigots that seem to need to demonize someone. And, I see some rebels-without-a-cause picking up on this and converting it into a cause - in this case, a cause they feel is worth killing for.

Norway and Germany are democracies. That's how they ' listen to their constituents' as you put it. A few loud voices trying to frighten people with Muslim bogeyman stories are the opposite of what democracy is all about.
23:06 July 25, 2011 by GolfAlphaYankee
@michael4096: very well said ! couldn't agree more.
23:52 July 25, 2011 by Logic Guy
Well, for starters, Plato was correct, in that "A prefect society is but the external reflection of a harmoniously integrated soul, where appetite and desire are under the command of reason (logic)."

Extreme individuals and groups of all types, should now realize that violence does not lead to long-term improvement. "Real change only comes through Psychology." AD

The majority of the responsibility is on the shoulders of the Norwegian government. They simply can not allow hundreds of people to be on an island with police protection. And the fact that it literally took them 90 minutes to arrive, after the shooter began killing kids, is clear proof that the Norwegian government is too weak and ineffective.

The leaders of a nation will either protect and provide for their citizens, or expose them to destruction.
00:32 July 26, 2011 by lunchbreak
@ Gretl # 23

Thanks for your elucidation of my remarks, we're on the same page.

There's more than one Dane that feels that the danish government is selling denmark's cultural birthright for cheap immigrant labor. If I were danish I'd be upset too. But I wouldn't go around killing folks. There are much smarter and more moral ways to be of service to your country.
04:33 July 26, 2011 by Gretl
@Michael4096 - I didn't say there was a majority screaming death to immigrants. However, there has been been rumblings across Europe about how Europeans define themselves, and it is predominantly Christian. I"m just saying if the majority feel that way, then let them have the right of self-determination. I have held this view since I was in University, and it was as unpopular then as it is now, when I was advocating that we couldn't/shouldn't stop Yugoslavia from self-determination whatever the poltical-economic "reality" was. And then they did. I felt like Cassandra.

I will agree it may be the loud shouting of a small minority. I have watched the same thing happen in the US, and perhaps because of the US, it is happening in Europe. Given the polarization of political parties in the US, can a Teabagger attack on a gathering of democrats be far behind? Or did we already witness the half-witted, who feed on the hatred spewed by FOX News and right-wing radio, in the shooting of Rep. Gifford? A nation of 5 million vs. 330 million. I don't even want to think about the casualties.
10:50 July 26, 2011 by michael4096
@Gretl - apologies if it sounded like my rant was aimed at you, it wasn't meant to be personal. Now, I'll have one more rant, not at you, then I'll shut up - promise!

I disagree with your assertion that Europe wants to be 'predominantly Christian' but, even if it did, it is not obvious that that would be the 'right' or even a good choice. Been there, done that! As they say. Europe has over a thousand years of hatred and bloodshed because it was predominantely Christian. The first thing that happens is that religion fragments: catholic or protestant? protestant! ok methodist or anglican or ...? anglican! ok, 'smells & bells' or 'happy clappy'? And, on it goes. These questions have cost the lives of millions.

But, does Europe really want to be Christian? There is very little evidence. Fewer than one in ten now go to church regularly and most of those agree that people should have a choice. There is much more evidence that people don't like the idea of having religion, any religion, forced down their throat and, thanks largely to the loud minority, Islam is always portrayed as doing that. Now, that does frighten people. However, the solution is surely not to go Christian but to go religion neutral and define Europe by non-religious values. And, the funny thing is that once you do that most of the religions say: well those were my values, anyway!
12:34 July 26, 2011 by Gretl
From Science Daily today, which makes one reconsider the dangers of the vocal minority, "Scientists at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have found that when just 10 percent of the population holds an unshakable belief, their belief will always be adopted by the majority of the society. The scientists, who are members of the Social Cognitive Networks Academic Research Center (SCNARC) at Rensselaer, used computational and analytical methods to discover the tipping point where a minority belief becomes the majority opinion. The finding has implications for the study and influence of societal interactions ranging from the spread of innovations to the movement of political ideals."

@michael4096 - Funny thing - I am not Christian, but my ancestors were the very ones who forced Christianity upon their Europe subjects, even north, most notably in Denmark. I can't help but feel some culpability for the 1600 yrs of wars and destruction of native European culture and religion. I would like to see non-native religions go away (at best) or religion itself go away.
13:47 July 26, 2011 by ECSNatale
I wonder how many of the people who worry about the islamification of Europe even go to christian church at the first place? Why not just come out with it and say, we don't want people who are different than us... we don't want people who make us uncomfortable? Every country is the same so I am not aiming this at any one nationality. It holds true for muslim countries as well... they don't want us on their soil either?

The whole thing is just silly. Religion may be a large part of the problem, but in my humble opinion the biggest problem of all is a total lack of respect for your fellow man.
14:19 July 26, 2011 by michael4096
@Gretl - thanks for the pointer, the modelling part of that site is one thing I monitor and I'm surprised I didn't see it before

'culpabilitiy' is a strange thing to feel because it requires value judgements which you cannot make. "Never judge history with the values of today." We can never say Christianity was wrong at that time only that, having seen what happened then, there are better ways of achieving what we want today.
14:40 July 26, 2011 by lunchbreak
@ ECSNatale

Of course we are not all the same, some cultures are more advanced than others. From what I can see a total lack of respect is a feature of immigrant cultures who fail to absorb the culture of the country they immigrate to. Perhaps they should return home if they are more comfortable with their own culture.
17:25 July 26, 2011 by michael4096
@lunchbreak - the one culture that have steadfastly for two millenia retained their own culture as immigrants in others are of course the Jews. From your post, you think them culturally backward.

Apart from ideas like yours leading to pogroms and worse though the centuries, have you considered that most immigrants don't actually have a 'home' to return to? Most people you classify as unabsorbed immigrants in Germany were born in Germany and they are already at home.
10:24 July 27, 2011 by b-c
@lunchbreak: the confused and fearful ideas of you and your likes will never win, we are many more and we are prepared to defend ourselves and fellow humans to live in open societies with respect for all humans regardless of their religion or nationality. you made a very tasteless first comment and i almost hope the memory of all the murdered anti-racist kids in norway will haunt your dreams (but i doubt you care enough about human life to experience that). fascism/racism is very dangerous.

@oldWine: i'm surprised so many people are confused with this "21 years" law. if you would read more about the judicial system in norway you will realise this psycho will never get out of jail.
13:28 July 27, 2011 by lunchbreak
@ michael 4096

The jews have a very refined culture. And of course all the jewish terrorists blowing up trains and planes in europe are under constant surveillance. Their insistence that 'you're a nice guy but we're the chosen people' is a bit of a drag however.

Interesting to learn that most immigrants come from outer space and don't have a country and culture they can return too. Unabsorbed immigrants were born in germany? Well thats OK then. Never mind that their existence in germany devalues labor and undermines educational standards. After all who would do the menial work if we didn't bring in folks from africa or the middle east? Maybe we should learn to clean our own toilets.

@ b-c

I have nothing to do with the mass murders in Norway.
17:20 July 27, 2011 by Sastry.M
Considering every human being as composed of Mind-Intellect- Body, we can use the example of ringed Mercedes Benz automobile symbol placing Mind and Intellect on top two sectors and Body in the lower one. If people all over the world admire the design and quality of this particular brand of vehicle what factors contribute to both the body structure and the acclaimed quality? Mind and intellect are both subtle but constant research and innovations are carried by using these subtle elements constituting as 2/3'rd sectored for the quality and performance of gross body proper of vehicle which is only 1/3'rd in comparison.

The pioneering people of industry constantly constantly tax their brains in an innovative R&D effort to keep the vehicle up to date in all respects. The major two subtle elements of mind and intellect are as old as the age when humanity began evolving into higher consciousness but all methods to address these subtle elements to sustained tranquil and peace free from fear and filled with confidence in spite of many Religious faiths and holy scriptural injunctions.

This is a dichotomy unique only to human beings because the two major subtle guiding elements cannot be rationally defined and logically interpreted in the way we can do scientifically with elements of physical body as well as functioning of biological system.

This the basis of all Indian scriptural philosophy and if individual faith in own religion many not prohibit receptive tolerance to study Gita and other books and commentaries will be of great help All present day ills are due to lack of mastery over willful control of inner subtle elements and physical destruction of gross elements (physical world) including own body are erroneously and irrationally destroyed although all boasted human progress tries to achieve maximum physical comfort.
14:30 July 30, 2011 by eudes marinho
Anders Brevik not a Christian: First I want to say that the killer, Brevik, not a Christian. In the Bible Jesus said that whoever loves God, hear God's voice. Jesus said not to kill, not whoring and love your enemies. What did Anders? Anders murdered, lied, planned evil, whoring and did not hear what the Bible teaches. Anders is a Norwegian citizen who disagrees with the immigration policy of his country and made ​​the biggest mistake of his life. Brevik is not a Christian.

The world press prefers to call Christianity a religion of evil because only a madman who calls himself a Christian without really analyzing whether it is Christian.

Jesus said that many were outside the kingdom of Jesus and say, "Lord, Lord" not done many things in his name?? But Jesus says, not all who say "Lord, Lord" do the will of my father and not enter into my kingdom. Jesus said that whoever loves God makes his will. The will of God comes down to: Love God above all and love your neighbor as yourself.

Think about it: Anders Brevik heard the voice of God? He obeyed God?

I thought the attack was an action of the Moslems cause the obvious. And I think there should be laws against this Muslim invasion in Europe. For the high number of immigrants and high birth rate they will be mostly in Europe soon.

It is notorious that Islam encourages them to hate and kill Christians in their countries. This is shown in the media every day who does not see it?

It's funny that Muslims come to Europe and want to behave like owners of everything, want to impose their laws and ideas, want to be treated more privileges than the natives. And they're succeeding.

I'm not racist / Nazi / xenophobic or anything like that but I see that the current situation will worsen if the number of Muslims in Europe continues to grow.

I am in Latin America and here we have religious freedom, but thank God, Muslims are not representative. They are violent and are fierce in converting people just to get political power. In fact, they want to dominate the world as Hitler also wanted. Already infiltrated in Europe and gradually dominate the local media.

It seems that the European public does not realize where they are most dominated by the violence. Just count how many attacks occur daily in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Jordan and so on.

You Europeans are prepared to continue receiving the Muslims? They will continue stocking their bombs in their gardens. When they can force you to convert to Islam they will do it. You will have to choose to pray toward Mecca or die. Think about it. Think very reason and logic.
21:23 July 30, 2011 by PierceArrow
Anyone who thinks that Anders Breivik was a Christian should read Ann Coulter's column on wnd.com/index.php?pageId=326733

Breivik was a Darwinist who read the New York Times. When he was only one year old, he was completely abandoned by his father. Breiviks is about as "Christian" as John Shelby Spong, the bogus "Jesus Seminar" minions, Barack Obama or Harry Reid.
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