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Canadian arrested for making Hitler salute in front of Reichstag

The Local · 27 Feb 2011, 12:06

Published: 27 Feb 2011 12:06 GMT+01:00

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The 30-year-old from Quebec was with a German friend when he posed in front of the parliamentary building and made the salute, according to daily Der Tagesspiegel on Sunday.

The German friend, a 29-year-old from the state of Lower Saxony, photographed him in the pose.

Making the salute is illegal in Germany – a fact widely known in Germany but often unknown abroad.

An investigation will now be undertaken against the Canadian for using an illegal symbolic gesture.

Berlin police officers confiscated the camera chip, but the man was released after posting bail.

Story continues below…

The Local/hc

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

12:51 February 27, 2011 by peter douglas
stupid tourists.
13:49 February 27, 2011 by majura
"Making the salute is illegal in Germany ­ a fact widely known in Germany but often unknown abroad. "

Which begs the explanation, why diddn't his German friend say something!?

Also paying 'security' is known as a "bond" payment.
14:05 February 27, 2011 by Fritzi
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
14:45 February 27, 2011 by jbaker
This Guy was probably just joking around. Are the laws over Freedom of Expression in Fear of Facism Making a come back? Tyranny is only going to Break Out when the Majority of the Population agrees with the Lunatics attempting to take Control(as what happened in the 1930's). I like the Idea of Freedom of Expression and Speech. It IS a God Given Right! You can choose to listen and Agree or Disagree with these Expressions. To Suppress People is Not Right(Unless they are trying to take control of you,which you can Repel).
15:50 February 27, 2011 by ufo4u00
Both of these guys knew exactly what they were doing in my opinion. I do not think much will come of it though, they will get a slap on the wrist.
15:54 February 27, 2011 by DOZ
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
16:10 February 27, 2011 by romber58

I paraphrase George Carlin when i tell you that there are no rights...only privileges granted by governments and which can be taken away at anytime by governments as and when it pleases them.Look at what is happening to the supposed land of the free with the Patriot Act among other things..and you mention G-D...do you really still believe in that man-made Santa Claus stuff? That would go some way to explain your rose-tinted, näif way of seeing whats going on in the world.
16:24 February 27, 2011 by catjones
If the guy was spraying graffiti on the reichstag or burning Merkel's car he'd never been caught.
16:39 February 27, 2011 by rutledm
DOZ...you whacked out turd. I'm a German Canadian and you're statement is about as out to lunch as you must be. Moron.
16:47 February 27, 2011 by wood artist
Obviously I know nothing about the "suspect" in this case, but as a relatively frequent visitor to Germany I do know that not every tourist knows about that law, nor truly understands how sensitive the issue is/can be. In many eyes, that time period is about the only history of Germany that they know, and far too many first-time visitors are looking only for history from that time period.

I'm guessing it was little more than a silly stunt, most likely with no sinister intent. That doesn't really change the legal situation, but it's tough to make much more of it than that.

Insensitive? Yup. Stupid? Certainly? Criminal? Yes, but only in a limited way. Dumb? Absolutely.

Hopefully the court can find an appropriate response that doesn't make it into something it never was.

17:23 February 27, 2011 by Loth
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
17:29 February 27, 2011 by auniquecorn
I think the canadian guy was showing his friend how deep the snow in canada was this time last year.
18:29 February 27, 2011 by Landmine
knucklehead.... Some German friend he had....
18:35 February 27, 2011 by stux
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
19:11 February 27, 2011 by zeko13
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19:20 February 27, 2011 by Canadeutsch
As a dumb teenager years ago, another German Canadian friend and I did something similar...only he flashed 'the finger' and I took the picture. Oh yeah..it was in front of Buckingham Palace though. Respect for each others cultures and political views and how to act has to be learned. A 30 year old should have known better. Let's hope this helps him.
20:43 February 27, 2011 by DickShawnsDiction
German police tossing a tourist in jail for making a "Nazi" joke in front of the Reichstag? No irony there, obviously.
21:16 February 27, 2011 by Nemo2010
I think he was just waving to the camera.
22:53 February 27, 2011 by jbaker
@romber58 I see perfectly well that this World is Run by Self-Centered,Arrogant Politicians/Aristocracy/Religions. These People are allowed to Rule over their Subjects, because Those People Allow it. You Paraphrase a Comedian/Actor-George Carlin and then tell me that I view the World through a Rose Tinted,Naive Mentality? Oh-About the GOD Statement - I Read that Atheist's Do Not Believe in God - and God Does Not Believe in Atheist's- Therefore Atheist's Do Not Exist. God is Not a Religion. Religion's are an Excuse to Control the Populace.
07:44 February 28, 2011 by Canuckgirl
I've been living here in Germany for almost four years and I have never heard of this law. Maybe because Germans don't talk about "that time" and lets lock up anyone who reminds us.


You must not know anything about Canada because it is one of the most tolerant societies today. Albeit an insensitive act but criminal?
08:59 February 28, 2011 by khassi
in germany they live in their own world and expect all the world to live in it! get over it and learn how to joke.....
09:39 February 28, 2011 by Talonx
@ Those questioning the nature of free speach in Germany.

Though I don't agree with this particular law, though it would be a lie to say that it has something to do with free speech. This law is and always has been about protecting survivors and victims. Either way, what an ignorant a-hole.


Guaranteed that, 1.) Your German friends know about the law and probably assume that you do to, 2.) That your German friend know more about their nation's genocidal history than you ever learned about yours (yes, Canada's treatment of Natives was literally genocide according to the standard definition). Start a conversation up with them if you really want to, it's you that's probably embarassed about it, not them, often times this is why they don't talk to foreigners about it. I truly don't mean any of that harshly or angrily, just as observations.
09:48 February 28, 2011 by moistvelvet
Here we go again, another example to reinforce the stereotype that Germans don't have a sense of humour, geez they need to get over it!
09:57 February 28, 2011 by rachelg53
It seems that some things in every country's history dealing with sensitive issues may not be understood by some foreigners. For example, Germans at my workplace didn't understand or know that slanderous terms for black Americans were actually considered slanderous. They don't understand the history behind the terms, so perhaps the Canadian didn't understand the extent of what he was doing...
10:11 February 28, 2011 by moistvelvet
@rachelg53, you are right definately a cultural insensitivity thing, Germans just don't seem to understand why I get so frustrated and annoyed when they don't que or hold doors open. Perhaps, just perhaps the queing is discouraged in Germany because of the affiliation of that time in the distant past, just like the salute... all makes sense now!
11:19 February 28, 2011 by appocalypto
i think germans should make better laws to keep away those Neo-nazis rather that crying over someone doing a salute.....

btw i cant fathom how stupid that canadian was and so was his "german" friend.... i would be more worried about getting beaten up by people than police :D
11:25 February 28, 2011 by michael4096
There was a very good reason for this law 60 yrs ago but its way past its sell-by date today.

Perhaps we need a scrappage plan like the cars - new laws for old.
11:40 February 28, 2011 by Eastard
The police should have found out he was a tourist and told the young man that this action was not allowed by German law... If he did it again... book him... Either way they should have questioned the German photographer too... he had little excuse in participating... I'm not sure of the reason for this law except to enforce the German people's desire to move on from an unpleasant time in history.... Germany was and is full of good people who do not support world domination. How best to let travelers know of these many no-no's..?
12:39 February 28, 2011 by Raydoggy
Hitler didn't maintain power by what he said, he did it by restricting what others said. To prohibit freedom of expression is a form of fascism.
13:35 February 28, 2011 by elboertjie

What do you mean with:

'Also paying 'security' is known as a "bond" payment.'

I assume you mean something different from the 'bond' being used in financial markets by government and corporates.

What do you mean by 'bond' and how does this affect us?

Thank you
16:21 February 28, 2011 by Talonx
@ People that just post without reading others comments

Again, this is NOT a free speach issue for German politicians, this is protecting victims and survivors.

To the same extent that a rapist is banned from coming within so many meters of the women he raped, the nazi salute is not allowed in Germany.

I personally don't agree with the reasoning, but it needs to be understood that this is not a free speech issue to anybody, this is a civil society issue in Germany.
16:27 February 28, 2011 by Fritzi
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
17:14 February 28, 2011 by willowsdad
@Fritzi: Ile Niemcow tam mieszkaja teraz???
17:36 February 28, 2011 by Fritzi
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
18:18 February 28, 2011 by wenddiver
@DOZ- I don't think you are correct. Canada like the other former British Colonies has a lot of people of German ancestory. Like the US, they are very prominent in Political, Military and Social affairs. This goes for Austarlia, New Zealand, South Africa too. There were no objects from Canada or any of the other Former British Colinies to General Eisenhower being the Supreme Allied Commander in World War II or to General Pershing (German Ancestry) leading the American Army in World War I. In the US General Fritschie led the Chemical Corp and Carl Spatz the the US Army Air Corps. I don't think growing up in an English speaking country ever limited any of these men's careers. I think the English speaking countries have always welcomed German immigration. Canada has large communities of Ammish, Mennonites and Lutherans that emmigrated there.
20:33 February 28, 2011 by TRJ
I find it extremely difficult to believe that this Canadian didn't understand the degree to which he was crossing the line with his salute. The fact that he was in the presence of a German who was complicit leaves his actions inexcusable.

Those of you defending his actions as some sort of human entitlement are coming across as the type who would find it perfectly acceptable to hang a noose from a tree in a black man's yard or to burn a cross in his yard. If you can't understand why certain actions - even if they don't directly result in violence- must be legislated away, then you are lost.
20:47 February 28, 2011 by Talonx
@ Wenddiver

I wouldn't say always, but I find myself in general agreement with you.


Well articulated.
21:37 February 28, 2011 by Canuckgirl

My comment is based on what my German friends have told me. Believe me, I am not embarassed to talk about it. I know about WWII and I also know about my own countries atrocities. I assume you are American so I probably wouldn't say much about Natives as well.
01:06 March 1, 2011 by Talonx
@ Canuckgirl

But your friends talk about 'that time'.

See what I mean. I've never really met a single person that wouldn't talk to me about the Nazis, openly, critically, and constructively. To be sure it's a sensitive subject, but people generally do talk about it, they don't reinvent it or avoid it.

I think you might be having a fundamental cultural miscommunication with your friends on this issue, because this stuff has been openly taught in schools in West Germany since the 60s and in the East since 1948 (albeit with more of a focus on the persecution of political opponents to the Nazis, there were many). Additionally, German kids go on trips to former concentration camps. Compare that to the U.S., where civil war reenactments take place and the south celebrates or in Canada, where the government affords no native ownership rights, etc. the world over . . .

All of that aside, every nation has its atrocities, my only point is that Germany is really the only one taking any effort to remember them. And, your friends might just be holding themselves to a standard that's hard for you or I to truly understand. Germany isn't perfect, but they do their own history better than any other nations' school systems.
07:45 March 1, 2011 by wenddiver
@Talonx- Southerners celebrate their military prownes at those re-enactments, not Dis-union or Slavery. The songs of the war are about home and independence generally, not another people's struggle for Freedom. Owners of 10 slaves were exempt the Confederate draft, so the men in the armed services were generaly not the rich who started the war. Their struggles against impossible odds are exciting reading and no country ever fielded a better General than Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee, Richard Taylor, or Nathan Bedford Forrest. No Navy ever sailed under braver leaders than Capt. Raphael Semmes, Capt. Charles Reade, or Admiral Buchannan. The first successful Submarine the C.S.S. Hunley never lacked for volunteers, no matter how manny crews were drowned, until she sank her Union Warship. Any people would be proud and want to remember this time in their history.
09:22 March 1, 2011 by Talonx
@ wenddiver

The Wehrmacht 'fielded' (is this some kind of sport?) loads of good officers as well. Should we reenact their battles?

They fought for slavery, slavery is also a form of genocide (according to the standard definition). I don't see what there is to be proud of in that.

I know the south was screwed after the war, generations would be destitute in Appalachia as a result of the failed reconstruction, but surely a more honest and moral rallying point can be found.
14:30 March 1, 2011 by Karim Algeria
I am shocked to read this article and about the German law forbidding FREEDOM of SPEECH. I recognize how a reference to Hitler mocks innocent victims of WWII, however a gesture or a spontaneous expression remains a free speech. When Prophet Mohamed was mocked by several European newspapers everyone was shouting FREEDOM OF SPEECH even though 100s of millions of Muslims from around the world asked the European public and other opinion leaders not to confuse insult and freedom of speech, yet MOST disregarded and continued insulting what the Muslim world hold to the highest, their prophet. Double standard in Germany, what a shame, but I understand Muslims do not hold the reign of (la haute finance), banking and heavy media and other government clouts to enact a law forbidding blaspheming the prophet Mohamed. Quelle blaphéme dis donc, pauvre allemagne!
14:31 March 1, 2011 by stux
Talonx, your an idiot if you think the U.S. civil war was about slavery.

I am not from the South and would be considered a Northerner by them.

As with most historical events, things are written afterwards to justify the victors course of action.

The Southern states did not want Northernerners which ruled based on having higher population counts to make laws they did not agree with. Lincoln was throughout his life against the act of slavery (as were many in the South), but freeing the slaves was not done until late into the war and was meant to cause a slave revolt which would weaken the South.

I know this is off topic, but somehow it got brought up.

I still think it is really stupid that someone could be arrested for what this Canadian did. Maybe fined, but arrested????
14:41 March 1, 2011 by Talonx
@ Stux

I'll concede that it was about states' rights, states' rights to allow slavery.

You might want to read the articles of confederation before talking out your arse. The facts are behind me, slavery is the primary reason mentioned in that document.

P.s. it's fun to whatch a conservative defend democrats (slavery supporting party at the time), lol.

Anyways, at least we agree this canadian guy was an #ss. Their is actually just a fine, but if you're a foreigner you get deported as well. He was likely detained and not arrested.
15:12 March 1, 2011 by stux

It was actually about Southerners wanting to count 2 or 3 black slaves as one person towards their census in order to rival the population of the North. Compare the number of Congress seats NY and CA have to the rest of the U.S. and you might have a better understanding.

It was never originally about slavery. It was about Northern states having more power than the South and the South deciding they did not want to play that game anymore. They almost got away with it also.

One of the most controversial parts of of the "Emancipation Proclamation" was its exemption of the border states. Only the Southern states that were in the Confederacy had to give up their slaves.

------------Sorry to everyone that may have had to read these side comments.

I really do not think this Canadian is a big jerk (although most are). He did not think it was a big deal, neither do I. He may be a normal guy just goofing off on vacation. Everyone just jumps out and claims he is a total jerk for doing this.

I may actually start pointing directions with a good old salute myself. Who knows, next time you ask someone where the Old Opera House is you might get saluted in the right direction.
15:25 March 1, 2011 by Talonx
@ Stux

Read the Confederates constitution. You're just wrong on this one, it was about a states rights regarding slavery, you've even tacitly admitted this.

Regarding your threat to salute, Why don't you mock rape victims to their faces well you're at it, equal effect and actually far less offensive than the Hitlergrüße.

I don't think their needs to be a law either, but I don't see why anybody would stick up for this Canadians character, please be reasonable about this. He's obviously not a responsible person.
15:49 March 1, 2011 by stux
The war was not about "slavery". Southerners would not have risen up like they did, or died for that cause. There were more issues on the table, but everyone just likes to say it was slavery. There were people in the South that disagreed with slavery. Only a minority actually even owned slaves. There were a lot of slaves, but not every white person had one. Why would someone be willing to die for their rich neighbor to have slaves?? Are you really that brainwashed?

They had a form of slavery in the North that involved white immigrants. It was a different form, but it was slavery non the less.

How would I go about mocking a rape victim? Even if I did whatever that is I would not go to jail for it. I would obviously not mock a rape victim, but this guy was not standing in front of a Jewish memorial or Auschwitz. I have seen Jewish people jockingly salute each other. Yes, it is stupid. It is like black people using the N word. Should I go to jail if I say the N word?

You do not know this Candian and neither do I. For all we know he is not a bad guy and really meant no offense to Jews. It was a bad joke. Nothing to go to jail for.

Anyway, I do not think I have it in me to continue this banter with you. Rather than making any real point you just refer to a document that does not really substantiate your argument. Wow, slavery is written into the papers. What is your point.

Sorry, I might be mocking a retard right now.
16:46 March 1, 2011 by wenddiver
@Talnox- I think we do a better job of balancing the the horrors of National Socialism, with the actual experience of the average Germam called up into the Wehrmact in the US. We aloow re-enactments with both German and Red Army Units. Advocating their ideologys is prohibited by the re-enactors, but not by the Government.

Two scenes in the movie Band of Brothers sum up the average Americans viewpoint (of course there are always extremists at eitheir end of the political spectrum). The first was the US soldier forcing the rich family to allow the wounded German Soldier to ride in their car. The second is the US Commander not interfering in the speech of the Wehermact Officer at the end of the war.
17:47 March 1, 2011 by jbaker
Question Everything!,Including All Written Material. We get closer to Truths the further we Dig. The American Civil War was about Power and Money(As are All Wars). Slavery was just one piece of that Money pie. Main Stream Media News References are Not the best source of Truthful Info. They like to write History the way they want to be Remembered-Their Final Power Grab.
19:56 March 1, 2011 by LiberalGuy
If you read the wording of Volksverhetzung in the Strafgesetzbuch you would probably find most people on here are guilty of it. Now I want to know how did a story about the silly actions of a Canuck
21:18 March 1, 2011 by zargorn
On their way to power the Nazis strategically and quite openly used their democratic freedoms to destroy democracy. I believe there are numerous quotes from Goebbels and others saying and writing this (before 1933). And as we all know - aided by the circumstances - they succeeded. Freedom of speech, for example, was used to make serious political debate impossible, freedom of assembly to create civil unrest. In combination these where also quite effective in intimidating political opponents.

In response to this the new German democracy drawn up in 1949 was intended to have effective weapons against such attacks. This includes among other things the banning of propaganda materials used by the Nazis (including the salute). This of course is also supposed to protect the victims.

In this particular case: If this behavior was tolerated we would have dozens of people doing this every day in front of the Reichstag. They would do it a few blocks away in front of the holocaust memorial, at protests marching in organized groups, or in gangs to intimidate Jews, Foreigners, or any reasonable people. Of course this alone will not destroy our democracy, but history has shown how in concert with many other things it can.

I hope that the Canadian that did this gets off easy. But if they just let him go, what will they tell the next person that does this?
21:31 March 1, 2011 by Talonx
@ Stux

You're obviously no historian, you continue to contradict the facts. You need to read the confederate constitution and analyses (plural)of it. What's really strange is your lack of knowledge of voting rights in the Confederate states.

As for not doing the action in front of a memorial. That would be kind of hard considering the proximity of the memorial to the murdered politicians (right in front), the memorial to the murdered jews of Europe (takes up the entire next block), not to mention the fact that the entire Reichstag is a memorial (literally, and not just the dome, they also kept the 'nazi dogs' graffiti up in the halls of the reichstag from American and Russian soldiers). So you're wrong again.

Try picking up a book instead of just listening to your gut.

You are so obviously wrong that your denials just make you sound delusional.
23:27 March 1, 2011 by DOZ

Really. Just like the Germans don`t like to talk about WW2, the German-Canadians also not once spoke of WW2 and that includes my coward German Immigrant Mother. Just like my mother never spoke up when Canada was trying to deny me an education and I was forced to learn to read and write in secret so I could defeat them. Then they did the same thing to my son and they are still doing it as he struggles to go to College.

Interest also that I was stalked by the Canadian Military my whole life as well and conned into taking jobs where I was forced to work as a slave for Canadian Vets. Interesting how all the abuse and stalking was from British-Canadians, French-Canadians, Polish-Canadians, Russian-Canadians, African-Canadians, Indo-Canadians and Canadian-Abouriginals. Wow, all the enemies of the Third Reich.


Now thats a mouthfull considering that all those abuse groups was actually headed by women and I suspect that is why Canuckgirl commented. That`s right and it turns out that these so called Tolerant Canadian Bigots had even gone as far as to recruit a woman to be a wife, so they could continue the abuse and keep me from knowing who everyone was, but also to add another child so they could continue the abuse game for another generation.

This organization was so sick that they even built a monument to a Nazi Commander hoping that the German-Canadian Community wouldn`t turn on them, or maybe even loose a large German Business in the area. Also interesting how at least two of those hatefull Canadian Woman Teachers, who tried to keep me from learning to read and write has xtremely strong connections to the Canadian Government.
23:46 March 1, 2011 by Fritzi
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
06:51 March 2, 2011 by wenddiver
@DOZ- Sorry your having such a hard time. Canada has different provinces have you ever thought of moving? If another province doesn't work I would consider emmigrating to Minnesota, the Hill country of Texas or North Dakota where there are a lot of people of German ancestory.

Life is too short to be unhappy.
18:18 March 4, 2011 by DarExc
The fact he is Canadian should excuse him, this law was made by the victorious allies including Canadians to stop a resurge of Nazism amongst Germans. Making it illegal to move your arm a certain way is itself wrong, especially against someone who's grandfather may have been doing it infront of monuments of a defeated Germany 60 years ago. Shameful...
19:54 March 4, 2011 by Stuart1977
Must learn to be more subtle like the non saluting fascists in their suits.
21:06 March 4, 2011 by Curmudgeon
1) The "salute" is not a "Hitler salute" it is Roman in origin.

2) This Canadian may be familiar with revisionist historians, who are outlawed in Germany. Several of them have blown huge holes in the official narrative of "that time".

3) There was no civil war in the US. It was a war of secession. The industrial North wanted protective tariffs put in place so that the agricultural South would be forced to buy their products. The South declared their lawful right under the constitution to secede, Lincoln attacked.

4) Canadians were somewhat tolerant, but quite frankly those of my age (over 60) are fed up with the multicultural bs, political correctness, and thought controlling "hate laws". Only the chosen few have free speech in Canada.

5) Many years ago, I worked with, and had neighbours who were Germans that had emigrated. Most were prepared to speak openly about "that time". While most were critical of the leadership, believing that the war was unnecessary, some, while not fond of Hitler, spoke openly about the takeover of their country after WWi and the cesspool that Germany had become. They were proud that their country rebuilt its economy in the middle of the world wide recession. They also refuted the notion of the extremist police state as was and is projected by the media.

6) WWII was about banking. Germany became successful by bypassing the international banking crime syndicate that runs our world today. Churchill declared, in 1937, that Germany had to be destroyed because it was becoming too powerful a rival to British industry. Many have wondered how Churchill managed his extravagant lifestyle on a Member of Parliament's salary.

7) "History is bunk" - Henry Ford. The winner gets to determine the story, and it is seldom true.
00:14 March 5, 2011 by kkiwi54
Curmudgeon - well said:)
04:12 March 5, 2011 by Satanya_SS
Why is it illegal to raise your right-arm, and it is not illegal to wear a head-scarf? Women wearing head-scarves represent submission to the Islam law, which decrees that anyone who do not worship Allah, should be put to death.

This is a rhetorical question. I don't debate.

It is evidently too late for the whole of the Western World.

Decadence cannot be stopped, unfortunately, when such events, such contradictory defamation, is allowed to take place.

As far as Nazism is concerned, we do not call the Romans nor the Greeks, murdered, for fighting for their lands, for building nations, and making history... why call the last fighters for land and nation, murdered then?

This is all absurd.

Let's then unite the whole population of the whole world, under one unified country, since fighting for land is no longer allowed.

The whole world is over.

Germany, of all places.

It breaks my heart, to see this.

Sieg Heil! Fekk Allah!!

11:22 March 5, 2011 by Stephen Goodson
The Hitler greeting was banned by the Americans and English in May 1945 as part of the "Denazification" process and has been retained, as Germany is still under the control of foreign powers, as evidenced by the presence of 100 000 occupation troops and the lack of a peace treaty. In 2007 the former head of Military Intelligence, Major-General Gerd-Helmut Komossa, disclosed in his book "Die Deutsche Karte", the terms of the Geheimde Staatsvertrag signed on 23 May 1949, which gave complete Allied control over electronic and print media, film, culture and education until the year 2099! Punishing anyone who uses the Hitler or Roman salute 66 years after the collapse of the Third Reich is patently ridiculous.
17:04 March 5, 2011 by pwoff

"Many have wondered how Churchill managed his extravagant lifestyle on a Member of Parliament's salary."

If you wonder about that, you should look at the family house in Oxfordshire www.blenheimpalace.com, makes one wonder about the remainder of your statements.
16:42 March 6, 2011 by digital47
I left Germany at age 18. Thought things were a tough in the USA but I see nothing has changed in Germany. The same stupid people. Hell, I never knew you could not do that. How oppressive!
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