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German politicians slam Dutch pact with Geert Wilders' far-right party

The Local · 30 Sep 2010, 11:33

Published: 30 Sep 2010 11:33 GMT+02:00

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Centre-left German opposition politicians have slammed the agreement, while conservatives have also shown misgivings.

Liberals and Christian Democrats in the Netherlands are working towards a deal with Wilders’ anti-immigration Freedom Party (PVV) in a bid to form a minority government after a June election failed to yield a clear winner.

Under the proposed deal, the Freedom Party would be ''tolerated,'' Dutch media have reported.

Wilders’ PVV won record support in the June election, giving it the third highest vote and an unprecedented bargaining position.

However the final decision on a deal rests with a party congress of the Christian Democrats (CDA) to be held on Saturday. While the party’s leader Maxime Verhagen backs the deal, dissident CDA MPs are forcing him to put it to a full vote at the party congress.

The German Christian Democrats (CDU), who have long had a close connection with their Dutch counterparts, have expressed concern about Wilders.

“Leaving aside the difficulty of establishing a government in the Netherlands, Mr. Wilders and his party are antagonists to Christian Democrat policies,'' Ruprecht Polenz, chairman of the foreign policy committee of the Bundestag, told Der Spiegel. ''With his Islamophobia and his populism, he divides the community rather than uniting it.”

Rolf Mützenich, a foreign policy expert with the centre-left Social Democrats, slammed the deal.

“The tolerance weakens common European values,” he said.

Michael Link of the pro-business Free Democrats said: “Tolerance of Wilders would be a difficult tightrope walk.”

Story continues below…

But he added that Mark Rutte, leader of the Dutch liberals, People's Party for Freedom and Democracy, had a “cosmopolitan and tolerant compass” that would “in no way give in to (Wilders’) xenophobic demands.”

Rutte, as leader of the party that scored the highest vote in the June election, would become Prime Minister.

The Local/dw

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

12:05 September 30, 2010 by closeenough
The Netherlands are an interesting political arena right now. The voters are waking up to the islamic threat to their country and the political establishment doesn't want to share power with the upstart Wilders. The Dutch have profited like many europeans from the cheap labor from former colonies but now the newcomers have grown in proportion to the natives and are a making noises for a bigger piece of the pie under the banner of Islam. Lets see how much of their culture the Dutch are willing to sacrifice in order to try to hold on to the way things were. I think its inevitable that Islam will win the culture war in Holland but not without a fight. There's too many of them now and the Dutch are in retreat.
12:05 September 30, 2010 by tallady
Geert Wilders,, has become a political force do to Islamic Phobia,,everywhere...,he has done a few stints in the USA and is a favorite of the Tea drinkers..

I suspect he brings up some ugly memories of Germanys past.. with their present politicians .. I think this man can do more to bring down our way of life than Osama Bin Laden can.
12:08 September 30, 2010 by freechoice
a muslim taxi driver in netherland told me there are some crazy politicians there who thinks all muslims are terrorists...good news he told me he is moving to germany..
12:17 September 30, 2010 by OkieinBerlin
If there is any substance to another story in today'a The Local ("Most Germans See Muslims as a Burden"), then it probably won't be long before Geert has a popular pal in Germany.
13:24 September 30, 2010 by DinhoPilot
Das war is about to start...

Europe is a boiling pot; Economic and Social
13:34 September 30, 2010 by Dougbal01
The Dutch have colonized countries in Africa and that turns out that the people have decided to move to Holland. Well, they have o deal with it in a more civil way than this.
13:53 September 30, 2010 by Johnne

well, you´ve said it all. I must use a srong word like stupid for some people to understand. IT IS STUPID FOR A EUROPEAN COUNTRY LIKE THE NETHERLANDS TO DEAL WITH IMMIGRATION LIKE THIS. It is STUPID for western countries to think their former colonies will take nonsense from them! when your fore fathers were colonizing and gainig economicaly from all the colonization, they didn´t think deeply right? OK, I will help the Dutch out. Those people are going nowhere. It´s either they get used to it, or move to another country. People just kee p waisting their time on rubbish. And closeenough I´m not sure if a muslim snatched his wife or girlfriend before...I want to know why you´re soo angry! you can´t win, you can only lose with the way you comment.
13:54 September 30, 2010 by moreanon
@Dougbal01, if they don't 'deal with it in a more civil way' what then? Finger-pointing and name-calling (racism, phobia) hasn't stopped the rise of Wilders.
14:08 September 30, 2010 by Johnne
I think it´s high time some people understood that The local is not a "white supremacist forum" where some Kriss Kross Klans and Neo Nazi supporters can just write nonsense to insult or provoke immigrants/people of colour. We won´t tolerate ANY nonsense on this forum-Although we all recognise the freedom of speech, Xenophobic or anti muslim opinions are totally unacceptable. If you speak against black people, immigrants, jews or muslims, you will get strong and prompt responses. If you are mis-informed or ignorant, but willing to learn, we´re ready to inform you. Infact we volonteer:-))
14:32 September 30, 2010 by ww77ww
@Johnne - this is also not a bleedingheart idiot antifa forum where endless unsustainable massimmigration is to be celebrated and applauded. Idiocy from all sides will receive its time. You are not a moderator and do not have means to dictate discussion. If you want your opinion aired, you must tolerate the others, even if you do not support it.

If Germany, Netherlands, and the rest of Europe had the courage to admit mistakes have been made regarding immigration. mistakes which give support to the far right, then maybe we could move forward. I suspect you lack the mettle to admit the mistakes. You are not in a position to inform anyone,

I think its "high time" some people realize what they have wrought,
14:45 September 30, 2010 by closeenough
Thats correct ww77ww. Unfortunately the immigration mistakes you mention largely benefit the monied classes that profit from imported cheap labor so I don't look for any change until someone like Wilders forces it down the throats of the ruling elite. By that time it may be too late to save european christian democratic tradition. Sharia law is the future by weight of numbers alone if the politically correct liberal attitude continues to hold sway on the continent.
15:23 September 30, 2010 by Johnne

you must be an illiterate, if you are not, you will not write me that nonsense. you see, this is exactly what I´m talking about. All what is going on in that your little brain is that "johnne" is another immigrant who needs deportation. Or who some STUPID anti- immigration laws should affect. Listen to me, I could be more German than you are. You don´t know me..because you´re ignorant,mis-informed and not willing to learn, you will be racist and be punished. Who told you RACISM should be tolerated? Hey! I don´t care where you´re from but you see, if you don´t change that your destructive, visionless mentality, you´ll see yourself sounding senseless. I grew up here & I for one is tired of all the rubbish racists like you write on this forum all the time! People like you are not wanted in europe! yes I can tell you quite allright what you can write you ignorant crap! I will not let you insult my people. but if you think you have a BIG mouth, reply me. or even come to Munich where me and you can meet face to face. I will show you evidences of how issues like this escalate into cross racial violence and division. You think you have an opinion? maybe if your parents or grand parents were shot dead nakedly or gassed up in a gas chamber during the Nazi period- you will understand how much STUPID "meinungs" like yours can cause or have caused to a society.Good Germans all over the world work very hard to erase the "Nazi" tag off their reputation and you are busy writing all sorts of crap. I was born here and grew up here. My dad moved here from Africa to study engineering 36 years ago and married my German mother. So I coud be as German or as western as you think you are. I know better than you because I have both sides and I´ve seen A LOT in my life. You don´t know what you´re talking about so just STOP writing rubbish here ok? I call people like you enemies of this great country. look at you!
15:24 September 30, 2010 by DinhoPilot
I wonder why I feel most people with negative and even racist views of the question are american? (there is always someone complaining about back in the us stuff...)
15:43 September 30, 2010 by Johnne

I can´t really say if they are Americans but I´m sure most of them are not Germans. I think most of them are just some ignorant and mis-informed minds. They think they represent one so called western values but they don´t. Even in the Netherlands, Germans are not that loved..just because of the atrocities committed by Adolf Hitler and his eccentric mates called the Nazis. When majority of Germans are naturally good people! with good hearts. Germans don´t want that crap anymore! people tend to forget things soo easily. We just read that German politicians slam extreme right fanatics. all what some people can write is to criticize such broad minded politicians and tag them as "weak liberals" some of them are just enemies of the west that´s all.
15:46 September 30, 2010 by ww77ww

I will match my knowledge and credentials to yours at any time. I will write you what I please, again, you lack the means to do anything about what I or anyone else will post here. If you do not like it, please ignore me, you cannot do otherwise. Your debate skills need much work.

I never said you were not German or anything else, please stop with your vacuous strawman arguments. I said nothing about your origin nor could I care less about your background.

And I demand you refrain from the "racist" strawman too. Which "race" have I denigrated? Please do tell, or stop with your slanderous insults. Be specific and ante up a quote, or shut up. You are not being asked. Your further decay into the "Nazi" red herring speaks volumes of your ability. It is the mistakes of those in control of immigration policy who give the NPD idiots and their similars in other nations so much fuel. It is those who have made the immigration policies of the past 50 years who are "visionless". It is those who make and support such policies who do not belong in Europe.

And judging by your victim mentality aimless tripe, yes, I am more western than you. You know nothing of "good Germans", only the asinine propaganda of the insane left extreme. Look at you, indeed.
15:57 September 30, 2010 by Tomreal
Haven't these guys seen the election results?
16:03 September 30, 2010 by ww77ww

You are correct. It is truly about economics, to destroy wage structures via imported labor who will accept lesser standards than the existing labor pool. The increasing socio-economic gap in the western world is the ultimate proof. In another couple generations, this unsustainable short term thought of profit and wealth maximimization and consolidation is going to create a true disaster in Europe. History always repeats itself, and it is the people who pay the price.
16:05 September 30, 2010 by Rohland
@12:05 September 30, 2010 by tallady

Favorite of the Tea Drinkers? I assume you mean the Tea Party.

In the Dutch political context tea drinkers are known to be the social democrats and other lelftist leaders who spend there time drinking tea with various Muslim groups after another Muslim attrocity or crime has taken place.

They will go out and instead of punishing them they will "drink tea".

It's a sign of the weakness of the leftist political groups to deal with the problems of Islamic migrants in the Netherlands.
16:05 September 30, 2010 by OkieinBerlin
Wow! This pack of know-it-alls knows even more than the usual pack of know-it-alls read here.. Unfortunately, they lag behind in grammar, puctuation and spelling. But ww77ww, he slings insults with the best of 'em.
16:21 September 30, 2010 by Johnne
@ww77ww or whatever you call yourself. YOU ARE A BIG FOOL and it shows with your comments. Secondly, it even shows more how ignorant you are. You are truly racist and people like you will be locked up last last. Look at you once again! you stupid arrogant for nothing sneseless moron. I will remind you again that people like you will never get away with what your role models "the Nazis" or the KKK did. Ever again will Idiots like you get away with RACISM you bastard! yes, you´re a bastard because if you were not, you wouldn´t even reply my comment in the first place. You see now "the bad German" why are you angry that I used "good German" IDIOT. Who do you think you are? You are NOTHING a mere IDIOT who thinks he´s better than others just because he´s white. Which knowledge do you have? I am 100% sure you never went to school. You are indeed an animal. how dare you? I said you should let us meet one on one, you writing rubbish to me. you are scared of proofs and evidences:-)) that show people like you are meant to be scared and insecured for life-:)) you can say what you like, we will not tolerate racists like you here! go away!!
16:26 September 30, 2010 by Rohland
@12:05 September 30, 2010 by closeenough

Most Islamic migrants in the Netherlands originate from Morocco and Turkey.

Not former colonies of the Netherlands. There is a group of migrants from the former Dutch East Indies , but they have integrated quite successfully in Dutch society and were for the most part Dutch or semi Dutch Indonesians.

While of Morocco and Turkish migrants 40% has a criminal record.

To something like 12% in other groups.

So problems are huge with these migrant communities and decades of left wing multi cultural policies has failed to integrate them while other groups have been quite succesful.

Also they were never brought to the Netherlands as migrants but , as in Germany, as guest workers in the 60's and 70's.

They were supposed to go back home after they finished there work contracts as Spanish and Italian guest workers before them.
16:29 September 30, 2010 by Henckel
I agree with most of Wilders' views. I wish we had more politicians like him here in the USA, not to mention in the Fatherland.
16:33 September 30, 2010 by closeenough
Johnne is the future of europe as immigration policy stands now. It will be interesting to see how the politics works out, indeed whether the present situation becomes an overriding issue in Germany.
18:21 September 30, 2010 by raandy
Go Get em !!!!! OkiinBerlin
19:21 September 30, 2010 by ww77ww

More namecalling and strawman garbage from you. Now you call me a "Nazi"? This is hilarious Typical rebuttal of the weak and incompetent. Where do I say anything that can be called "Nazi" by a reasonable literate person? Again, I demand you to stop the slander. Who do I think I am? With every word and brainless insult you post, I am your better.

I am ignorant, you claim? In which specific comment am I ignorant? Where am I wrong? Provide details or brand yourself a liar. I am "racist"? Which race to I denigrate? Please be specific.

You are correct in one aspect , I never was in a school with you. I did not stop my education at 18 years unlike yourself, I have seen much of this world, I have studied much history, and I see the mistakes being made in Europe. I am not afraid to admit these mistakes.

You are not in a position to "tolerate" anything, you are not a moderator and will not dictate discussion. Honest and open discussion will be the only way to address the looming catastrophe in this part of the world.

Immigration in and of itself is not an evil, but is also not a positive force simply by existing. Europe is doing it wrong. Policies need to be changed. This is not racist, this is fact.
20:41 September 30, 2010 by Hicham1st
The whole world is talking again and again and again... about muslims as a non integrated group,as terrorists,as narrow minded, as people who know nothing except giving birth to as many babies as a rabbit can do, ich habe die Nase voll from all what is said and written about us. May you people give us peace and some little respect, dont put us all in one pot together with ignorance, violence, and terrorism.
23:07 September 30, 2010 by closeenough
well said ww77ww.
23:28 September 30, 2010 by trilliium
"Sharia law is the future?" What proportion of Muslim immigrants want Sharia law?
01:19 October 1, 2010 by Logic Guy
Well, I'm sure we all agree that there are serious problems in the Netherlands, between the native Dutch and Muslims.

A Muslim man killed a descendent of Vincent van Gogh. They were angry that he was making a movie about issues within the Muslim culture.

A real fact: "An organization, or group of people will likely take over, if an opportunity arises."

This is what many Western people are concerned about. And therefore you are beginning to see more and more far right politicians gain power. "Extreme circumstances lead to extreme movements."
03:11 October 1, 2010 by Bishopbayern
the FPO got into power in Austria and the roof didnt fall in. lets see what happens
07:37 October 1, 2010 by JohnPaul44
Of course, there was 1933 in Germany...
10:43 October 1, 2010 by michael4096
"This is not racist, this is fact. "

Shame. All that money spent on education and can't even tell fact from opinion

Although I wouldn't use the same words as jonne, I can certainly understand his frustration

I am still waiting for one of these very clever anti-muslim ranters to provide any evidence at all that immigrants into germany have caused any non-trivial problems at all. Indeed, given the economic picture at the moment, the evidence is all pointing the other way
10:59 October 1, 2010 by Johnne

You still don´t get my point. Although I can tell with your explanations that you´re not racist. You didn´t read my comments properly before you jumped into conclusion. Again I will not tolerate ANY racist or anti immigrant comments that are directed to immigrants. I am a child of a Nigerian immigrant and I grew up in this country. You will not like it if a bunch of ignorant, mis-informed illitrates judge your parents or family members just because they were born in one country. If you read history or studied history, good for you. I didn´t study history, I studied Business Administration. Well, you know yourself that black people ALWAYS have to be well educated in this soceity. I mean..we´re deprived of economic power anyway so we know we need to work extra lengths to have a chance in the society. That I have done with my Degrees (MBA s and co) today,I run my own business here in Munich & even employ fellow Germans. I KNOW HISTORY. I know your history & I know mine. I know that europeans came to Africa for Colonization & Slavery. I know there are several religions & there must be freedom of religion practice.. especially here in west! afterall it is a free & democratic society. Of course there are cultural & religious clashes here in Europe, which normaly should not be hapening. Of course Europe or the West are traditionally Christian soceities (although many europeans don´t believe in God) "which sometimes is the reason why some muslims believe you don´t have the right to tell them how to practice their religion" I know the things you point out as mistakes of ancestors/politicians .

Have you ever asked yourself what US and Allies are doing in Iraq or NATO troops in Afghanistan? Your opinion gives terrorist the encouragement to hate you more and strike. You read history but you are not directly connected to it, you are well-informed but you should connect with muslims (not terrorist or fanatics) then you´ll have a change of view. Mistakes have been made, but what is the solution? We are all one world, negative anti-immigrant or muslim comments will not help at all! Infact, they will make matters worse..we will hate each other more, give in to the division tactics of some politicians & continue to fight each other. You sound like a normal guy, but I will not keep quiet here & allow racists to insult us. So, I must comment because this place is not an NPD website where people can just insult immigrants/ muslims..you picked up a fight that is not yours! ancestors/politicians made those mistakes. curiousity,arrogance, imperialism, Insecurity,enviness & unecessary concern about other people´s affairs. I am not muslim..even in my Fatherland, we know what extremists and muslim fanatics are capable of. But unless muslims, immigrants/ ethnic minorities here in the West are treated with respect, equality, and integrate the groups that are seen as "burden" in the society, you will never get it right.
11:23 October 1, 2010 by closeenough
I see Geert Wilder's success in the latest dutch elections as a good thing. Now the debate about immigration being a net gain or loss for the Netherlands gain proceed in a serious way. Any change in dutch immigration policy now may be a bit late though, like closing the barn door after the horse has been stolen.
16:57 October 1, 2010 by XCen
You get what you sow, Geert.

Stop whining, Inlander Netherland.

Immigration is because of your ancestor stole lots of thing and make a burden for years. Deserve that sh1t.
00:19 October 2, 2010 by JohnPaul44

It seems a little ironic to me to see a black person expounding on the glories of Islam while raging against the West for its historic slavery. The slave trade was a major industry of Islam for centuries! Do you think the early American slave ships sailed to the African coast and sent their crews into the jungle to hunt and capture individual slaves? Certainly not! They simply visited African coastal cities and purchased neatly packaged shiploads of slaves from the Muslim slave markets there.

It is especially ironic to see American blacks convert to Islam as a gesture of defiance against whitey, without realizing that it was Muslims who enslaved their ancestors in the first place!

Islam got its start in the slave trade very early in its history. I got the following from an "authorized" book on the history of Islam, proudly written by a Muslim.

In the 7th century, Mohammed and his first small group of followers were expelled from the city of Mecca for their too aggressive proselytizing. They went to the nearby city of Medina and then tried to convert a community of Jews living there. The Jews laughed at them, so the angel Gabriel, riding a white horse, appeared to Mohammed and commanded him to punish the Jews for their impudence. The Muslims then attacked to Jewish community, killed all the men and sold the women and children into slavery.

That will teach those Jews not to mess with an angel on a white horse!
00:39 October 2, 2010 by ww77ww

As I have told you before, you are not in a position to "tolerate" anything. This venue is not your property. You are not a moderator. You lack the means to prohibit the airing of any opinion. Please refrain from making such insane demands and statements.

Your stories of education and business are amusing. You own and employ, you say? What is the name of this company? What line of business do you "own" this firm? As the Amis like to say, put up or shut up...or brand yourself another wild internet liar, of which there are so many.

Do not cry to me about injustice and slavery, those ideals existed in Africa and everywhere else long before the European influence. Your professional victim rhetoric might work with some, but it does not fool me. You drop random slurs like Nazi and NPD simply to evoke pity from idiots. You will find there are not many idiots here.

What does stupid American-controlled western foreign policy have to do with anything? Do you think I am American or something? American policy gives some groups incentive to hate, and the arrogant idiocy you display gives others incentive to hate your ilk.

Why are you unable to comprehend the written word? Where have I said anything against immigrants as people? Please give me a direct quote. I have not said anything of the sort. I have nothing against immigrants or Muslims, per se. But European policies regarding immigration are flawed, this is not untrue. My ire is directed at the cowardly public sector idiots who write the policies. I have never said a negative word against immigrants themselves, and I would appreciate it if you would once and for all drop the slanderous implications.

If you want respect, you have to earn it. Give it to get it, not the other way around. You have absolutely no choice in the matter.


Where am I wrong? How is it not fact that European immigration and integration policies and ideals simply are not working, and are not sustainable? Are you British? You obviously have no education in economics...this rosy picture in Germany today will be short lived, a simple anomaly...wait and see.
01:18 October 2, 2010 by Foreign interest.
Visiting Holland recently we were troubled to observe how rapidly Dutch culture has been overtaken by imported social influences alien to everything historically treasured by Dutch population. We can see why the Dutch have lived to regret their failed "progressive" social experiment, clearly deteriorating their country. If Europeans are so close that they do not see, then foreign tourists do notice and we are shocked. We want to visit places where intrinsic values and cultures have been retained and the wishes of their long-term populations upheld by their governments. That is why we travel: to see and learn that which we cannot in our homelands. European-style "diversity", advocated by those who think that forcing individual beliefs and ways onto resistant others, is not working anywhere in the world. Protection and promotion of one's own proud culture in one's own land does not serve locals well when they feel displaced. As a result of forcing opposites together, we are seeing large-scale anger, inter-racial hatreds and degraded social cohesion including violence. One example is where mosques are built in previously tranquil areas, so that the frequent daily call-to-prayers ring out across previously peaceful domesticity, intruding into homes and business premises of those who are in no way comforted by Islam. We view Islam as a "nationality" that does not integrate well wherever it entrenches itself. For many decades Jews have integrated harmoniously into communities all over the world. They are undemanding, hard-working and harmonious, and most noticeably they rate almost zero in crime statistics. They do not displace or negatively over-impact on their communities. Japan is an example of a deliberately peaceful nation, steeped in history, unapologetically retaining its own race and culture. Japan is one of the most peaceful and interesting countries in the world. Anyone can safely walk Japanese streets day or night. Japan does not accept refugees or immigrants. Japanese unashamedly protects and preserve their gentle pure race, their customs and social values. We do not refer to Japan as "racist", rather they are wise.
01:44 October 2, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Very well written and thought-provoking. Kudos.
04:47 October 2, 2010 by XCen
@Foreign interest

So you don't know the organisation called Yakuza?

You are just a turtle on your peace mind basin.

(Quote):For many decades Jews have integrated harmoniously into communities all over the world.


Lol, do you see the clash in middle east?

Trololololo, where do you live? Do you have brain to think?

Christianity comes from war in my country that netherland have done.

Simply they betrayed trade treaties and invade 1 region, so you called them peaceful people??

Jews came from those alien netherlander,,
06:29 October 2, 2010 by JohnPaul44
I agree with "Foreign interest" that the forced mixing of two "alien" cultures destroys both cultures, but there is a far more insidious influence at work in Europe today. It may be called a "progressive social experiment," but in plain English, it is a welfare state. This not only destroys all historical tradition and culture, but it destroys the very spirit and soul of the people themselves!
15:37 October 2, 2010 by michael4096

"Where am I wrong?"

I didn't say you were wrong - I don't know - and, neither do you. That is the difference between fact and opinion.

What evidence do you have that immigration policy is not working? A few rants from sarrazin and others on this forum? A sort of collective "if we all say so it must be right"? For a start, what is the objective of german immigration policy? 'Cos if you can't answer that, you don't know whether its working or not.

As far as economics is concerned, why is trade good? I trust you know the answer. So, if trade is making goods in one place and taking them to where they're needed is good for all, why is taking the people who make the goods to where the goods are needed not just as advantageous? You don't have to ship goods which is useful when the goods are measured in man hours. It is really good economics - its the social side-effects that are under discussion.

I hope you got your money back from that very expensive education.
22:42 October 2, 2010 by ww77ww

Before I even begin to answer you, I must ask as to find the correct context: have you even been to Germany before? Or even to the European continent on more than a weekend holiday?

You ask very vague and openended questions (before answering any asked of you) without giving a clue as to what data is sought.

The objective of immigration policy depends on who is asked, who you believe has control. In reality, it is to lower wage standards so a few can consolidate profits. On another level, it is borne from feelings of false guilt brainwashed into everyone over the past generations especilly since 1968, which has also created a mindless 'save the world' ideal. But this is moot, success or failure of such enormous societal upheaval is not only judged by the writers of defective policy, but by ALL those who it impacts. Calling this idiocy "good economics" is groundless and insane.

Do you dare to claim German and European immigration policy is successful or sustainable? Have you ever once studied sociology or demographic trends? What do you predict for the future two or three generations from now? Think about it.

Must be another clone on the rotting futureless isle of blighty. Wake up, not all of Europe wants to emulate you.
11:12 October 3, 2010 by michael4096

If you can't answer the questions, discredit the questioner?

I have lived in germany for over 10 years, own a house and work at a german company with germans and a good few other immigrants. Do I pass your legitimacy test?

I won't ask you the same question. I prefer to make my opinions on the basis of people's posts and yours appear to use coherent words to mask incoherent thoughts.

My question is anything but open ended. What non-trivial problems are caused by immigrants to germany in general and muslim immigrants in particular? So far nobody has answered it. Which doesn't mean there isn't an answer but implies that there are lots of people there are lots of fear mongers here that really haven't got a clue.
23:59 October 5, 2010 by ww77ww
I do not discredit the questioner, the questioner discredits himself.

Amazing stories on the internet do not impress me. Just another Brit who wants to replicate his rotting dying island to the rest of the continent. Therefore, not legitimate, a false European. I have seen the decay in the south of England, and I do not want to see it spread elsewhere.

Your question is very vague and openended. You ask for material, but offer nothing as to what would be viewed as suitable. Who is to define "trivial"? Does anyone believe the benefits outweigh the costs and consequences? Why do you defend unsustainable illogical massimmigration of those who do not wish to integrate and who often have combative views to their hosts?

What do you think Europe will look like in 50 or 100 years? What do you think will become of the tensions of today? Or what will become of the last millenia of development?

From where do you get your "clue"?
21:25 October 7, 2010 by Logic Guy
Well, what Deutschland needs is a Real Conservative leader, someone that truly wants only the very best for the country.

There are more than 70 million native Germans in Germany.

Out of all of them, is there no such person? Should a past German return and make Deutschland the example of brilliance?
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Outrage over ruling on 'brutal' gang rape of teen girl
The now convicted suspects, sitting in court in Hamburg. Photo: DPA.

A 14-year-old girl was gang-raped and left partially clothed and unconscious in freezing temperatures. Now prosecutors are appealing the sentences for the young men found guilty, most of whom will not set foot in jail.

Dozens of Turkish diplomats apply for asylum in Germany
Demonstrators holding a giant Turkish flag protest against the attempted coup in Istanbul in July. Photo: DPA.

Since the failed putsch attempt in Turkey in July, Germany has received 35 asylum applications from people with Turkish diplomatic passports, the Interior Ministry confirmed on Wednesday.

Hertha Berlin fan club criticised for 'anti-gay banner'
Hertha BSC beat FC Cologne 2-1. Photo: DPA

A 50 metre fan banner apparently mocking the idea of gay adoption has overshadowed Hertha BSC's win in the Bundesliga.

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