• Germany's news in English

Gay 'shooting king' hit with female queen rule

The Local · 11 Mar 2012, 23:17

Published: 11 Mar 2012 16:19 GMT+01:00
Updated: 11 Mar 2012 23:17 GMT+01:00

The highly traditional Schützenvereine clubs crown favoured marksmen as “kings”, whose consort – until last year always a woman - for the season appears by their side for ceremonial events.

Last summer Dirk Winter, a 44-year-old from the western city of Münster, broke new ground by becoming the first openly gay top marksman, or Schützenkönig, and naming his long-term partner Oliver his "queen".

But this was too much for the Catholic conservative association, which was founded in 1925.

Although homosexual kings are accepted, the shooting club federation decided on Sunday evening that their male partners should not be allowed to appear with them in public. Instead, they should find a "replacement" female.

The Münster association, together with a club in Paderborn, submitted a motion on Sunday to the federal Schützenverein association to ban gay men from making their partners their "queens."

The federal association which met in Leverkusen, North Rhine-Westphalia, adopted the motion on Sunday evening, Der Spiegel reported online. Of the delegates present, 450 voted in favour, 28 against and 18 abstained, the magazine said.

Critical voices were raised even before the decision had been announced.

"I find it strange that the Schützenvereine don’t want to tolerate gay king couples," said the head of the government’s Anti-discrimination Agency Christine Lüders on Friday. It sends "a signal of intolerance" she added and called on the association to reject the ban.

Lüders pointed out that the changes to the rules could even be illegal under discrimination laws. "There's still time to counter this and show that the Catholic Schützenvereine are open to tolerance," Lüders told the Süddeutsche Zeitung on Sunday.

The German Lesbian and Gay Association has called the proposed ban a "provincial farce," and told the paper that the association should not be proud of a tradition based upon exclusion.

A spokesman of the Schützenverein association said that its history and Catholic roots meant that a Schützenkönig could only appear with a female queen.

Story continues below…

"There can and should be gay kings in future too, but then please with a queen by his side," the spokesman said last Thursday.

DPA/The Local/jlb

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

Your comments about this article

20:04 March 11, 2012 by Gretl
And isn't this already discrimination against women? There are no shooting queens? So women are not allowed to join, only be consorts? Sounds like a reason to boycott consort duties. Then it'll be a bunch a guys with no loved ones to impress, just a silly little club. Then maybe they'll change their antiquated ways.
00:01 March 12, 2012 by GermanMonarchist
Go shooting Club!

I am so Relieved that Somerset People in Germany still have moral ways.Trasition and morality prevail
00:17 March 12, 2012 by Aelfgifu1
Hatred and bigotry have never been "moral", GermanMonarchist.
00:59 March 12, 2012 by zeddriver
I suppose it would depend on German discrimination laws as to whether one could take legal action. As this is a club. And not a service that is a fundamental right or something that would adversely effect the health and safety of the discriminated.

I.E. In my home state I'm allowed by law to carry a pistol. But, If I enter a private business or club. They are allowed to deny my right to carry as it is private property and they set the rules. And I follow said rules. And I don't complain about it. As there are other places that will gladly take my money, Even if my wallet has a pistol near it.
07:10 March 12, 2012 by hankeat
Since they only accept queens, then his partner should appear as a drug queen.
08:45 March 12, 2012 by wood artist
The funny part of this, assuming there is one, is that they seem to be saying "We don't mind Gays, just don't really tell us about it...except sort of."

If you accept that there are such folks, and you're willing to let them be part of your group (which I think is wonderful) then don't set up additional rules that say "well, we'll let you in, but...." If Gays are truly okay, then the things they might do publicly should be okay too, and that means bringing a partner to an event. What they do privately isn't important.

I'd say it's time to get off the fence, and decide on one view or the other. If his "kingship" is based upon his shooting ability, then he's earned the right to be King, and if that means his partner or "date" for the evening is invited too, so be it.

11:08 March 12, 2012 by MattyB
@ 00:17 March 12, 2012 by Aelfgifu1

Absolutely love how the definition of "hatred and bigotry" has become "you hold different opinions and views than I do." This really does beg the question of who the real bigots are.

Overall, this is a private club. Don't like the rules, don't join; it's that simple. In fact, I'm kind of confused as to why this is "news."
11:47 March 12, 2012 by michael4096
There is a case currently in the European court concerning whether an organization, in this case an airline, can dictate that employees should not wear crucifixes because of uniform conflict. It seems that it is very similar to this case - where does the right of an individual stand when it conflicts with group rules? The church wants it both ways: when they are christian values then it's for individual rights and when its a church dominated group then it the group should be able to impose as it pleases.
12:56 March 12, 2012 by cheeba
Now they are saying gay men cannot be Queens. This country has truly gone mad. Don't they have better things to do, like like build windmills or something?
15:21 March 12, 2012 by Aelfgifu1
@MattyB: If the views that are expressed are hateful and bigoted, then I have no qualms about calling them so. Your logic, however, is flat-out ridiculous.

Let me explain it how it actually works, since you seem completely confused by such a simple statement:

1. GermanMonarchist expressed a hateful and bigoted opinion.

2. I called a spade a spade.

Yes, his views happen to be different from mine, but guess what? That's not the point I was making. I was commenting on the values espoused in the post, not in their similarity to my own.

15:58 March 12, 2012 by yourkeau
Human rights and German constitution have preference over any "rules" set up by so called "private property". You cannot put a sign at the entrance saying "entrance only for whites" or "women are not allowed here", or "By entering the club you agree that the owner can shoot you without a reason". There is a law which forbids discrimination of humans and everybody should comply to it. So, the club cannot deny gays.
20:16 March 12, 2012 by raandy
Well ain't them the brakes girls , to bad , so sorry.
20:53 March 12, 2012 by storymann
This is a very strange article, no comment.
20:54 March 12, 2012 by raandy
@WA are you gay? if not you would make a good one.
01:33 March 13, 2012 by Tanskalainen
Ernst Rohm?
06:24 March 13, 2012 by wood artist

Nope, I'm not. My children and my ex would testify to that, should it matter.

I just believe in equality, and do so without any desire to regulate private lives. What you do with your partner or friends is just fine with me, whatever it might be. How much of that you choose to share publicly is up to you, and I won't make judgments in any case. I only draw the line at an attempt to "force me" to make other decisions.

For years I worked in an profession that is largely Gay, and had several "offers" to come join the lifestyle if I wanted to. I politely declined, and in every case never heard anything more. To me, it simply doesn't matter. I wish we could all be more tolerant of those kinds of differences, and I applaud the freedoms that are gradually being acknowledged and/or accepted.


Rohm had a bunch of issues (in my opinion) but being Gay might have been the least of them. It was only a problem when Adolph needed an excuse to deal with the other things. I sometimes liken that situation to some politicians in the US...violently anti-Gay until they get outed themselves. It's sad that they simply can be themselves, and have other accept them for what they are rather than for what they are not.

16:49 March 13, 2012 by mr manchmal
hey, that's not just ANY gay couple, that's the pet shop boys, you fools— they should be running the club! oh, how quickly we forget...
19:25 March 13, 2012 by Tanskalainen
What's that drooling down the left one's chin?
20:19 March 13, 2012 by raandy
@Wa sure now I understand thanks for clearing up the mystery. I am mollified that you don't let anybody force you , thats not nice when they do.
03:31 March 14, 2012 by bmw331
11 just come as in drag and really let the scream. Another question why no shooting queen for women .and they could bring date of either gender .
11:54 March 14, 2012 by mrcontinental
Looks like Germany is slowly transforming into the USA right before our very eyes.
16:31 March 14, 2012 by franconia
How about a drinking party after, with kissing and groping each other, and his partner can twirl to his " Schuhplattler ". We all would have such fun to watch. Give me a break !
20:28 March 14, 2012 by Yael924
Dirk won, he should be able to bring whomever he chooses as his consort. To the victor go the spoils!

Congratulations, Dirk!
04:32 March 15, 2012 by GermanMonarchist
They are a private club, and they can choose thei rules. The government or anybody else does not have the right to come in there and force them to accept homosexuality. They have a right to reject homosexuality if they want to and bann it from ceremonial procedures if they wish
13:21 March 15, 2012 by mike_1983
stick to your guns.... no pun intended!

im sick of gays grandstanding themselves!
20:58 March 15, 2012 by ChuChu
Ag sies, if you think what they do sexually to each other, IT AIN'T NATURAL MAN.....JIGGGGGGGG. Now they want to force it down our throats ( pun intended)

If it was so natural, why are they so keen for us to accept it? The word "Queen" has

always been associated with Female.
01:49 March 18, 2012 by MichaSeifert-Weiss
It's embarrassing that there are so many idiots spouting crass nonsense as though you are school children of inferior intellect.

And the idea of consort is that the person who contributes and supports the King is seen, recognized and enabled to continue in that assisting role in public. To demand that the truth be supplanted with a ringer, whilst with historical precedent, is directly against Christian teachings and ethical philosophy. Further, it subjugates women again with asking them to 'just stand their and look pretty.' That any person, man or woman, would desire this today is appalling. A person with honour would want all people to be a contributing participant in any event - not just a fluffy actor.
23:40 March 19, 2012 by PierceArrow
Hooray for the German shooting federation. I hope they stick with their guns (pun intended)! The gays are political-correctness Pink Swastika Nazis toward anyone who disagrees with their agenda.
07:26 March 21, 2012 by Big L
Thank you for taking the correct action against gays pushing their obsession with "political correctness" BS further into our faces....
11:06 March 21, 2012 by raandy
@MichaSeifert-Weiss, I have read your post 3 times and I am not sure I have garnered the total meaning, you obviously do not speak English as your mother tongue.

Perhaps we should eliminate all barriers of gender in sports and society including those conflicted gender folks. that want to participate in both camps.
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