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Sarrazin: Muslims not compatible with Germany
Photo: DPA

Sarrazin: Muslims not compatible with Germany

Published: 30 Aug 2010 08:58 GMT+02:00
Updated: 30 Aug 2010 17:47 GMT+02:00

Bundesbank board member Thilo Sarrazin reiterated his criticism of Muslim immigrants on Monday, saying the vast majority were not fit to integrate into German society. Meanwhile the Social Democrats prepared to kick him out of the party.

Presenting his controversial new book Deutschland schafft sich ab - Wie wir unser Land aufs Spiel setzen, or “Abolishing Germany - How we’re putting our country in jeopardy,” in Berlin, Sarrazin rejected accusations he was stoking racism and xenophobia.

“I invite everyone to find discrepancies in my theories,” he said at a press conference. “It’s an uncomfortable discussion. But to solve problems we have to recognise them first.”

Sarrazin warns in his book that Germans could become “strangers in their own country” because of Muslim immigration. Excerpts published before the book’s release have sparked widespread outrage for being inflammatory and making unfounded generalisations.

But Sarrazin calmly renewed his broadsides against Muslims at the book presentation, while trying to deflect charges of overt racism.

“This isn’t about race, it’s about coming from Islamic cultures,” he said, adding that most Muslim immigrants were “hardly compatible” with a western society like Germany.

Such statements have led to a growing chorus of calls to kick Sarrazin out of the centre-left Social Democratic Party (SPD) and strip him of his Bundesbank post.

On Monday, SPD leader Sigmar Gabriel confirmed early press reports that the party was making moves to expel Sarrazin.

“This has been no easy decision for us,” Gabriel said.

Sarrazin had done a lot for the party but had now crossed a “red line,” Gabriel said, by linking the genetic make-up of certain ethnic groups with intelligence and the ability to learn. This was “highly problematic” and “racist.”

The SPD could no longer discuss these issues with Sarrazin, who had shown that “he is on completely the wrong track,” Gabriel said.

Gabriel also called on the Bundesbank to act. The SPD was confident there was now “no place” for the Sarrazin on the bank’s board.

The Bundesbank said in a statement on Monday evening that it would meet with Sarrazin "without delay" in order to discuss comments which the central bank deemed "discriminatory" and "provocative."

The bank said it "decisively distanced itself" from Sarrazin's views, adding: "The board declares that Dr. Sarrazin's remarks are damaging to the reputation of the Bundesbank." But only after hearing out Sarrazin would bank officials decide if they would take further action.

Senior SPD party members have previously said they would prefer that Sarrazin resign. But at his book launch Monday, he told reporters he had no plans to quit either the SPD or the Bundesbank board – saying he fully expected to be at the central bank a year from now, unless he suffered a heart attack.

Sarrazin also tried to distance himself from other European critics of Islam such as the Dutch far-right politician Geert Wilders.

"These questions belong in mainstream parties," Sarrazin said, referring to immigration and integration matters. "There's a tendency towards the extreme right (in Europe). I find that dangerous. But it's also wrong simply to ignore such problems."

Outside the launch, about 70 protestors gathered. The demonstration was organised by the group “Stop Right-Wing Populism!”

Pressure on Sarrazin has intensified in recent days, with with senior politicians including Chancellor Angela Merkel lining up to condemn his comments.

Merkel on Sunday evening weighed into the drama surrounding the central banker’s latest outburst in which he said different ethnic groups were each distinguished by an identifying gene, such as a “Jewish gene” or a “Basque gene.”

“The statements are completely unacceptable,” she told broadcaster ARD. “They are marginalizing … (they) disparage whole groups in the community.

“The type and manner of speaking here divides the community.”

Merkel also signalled that the Bundesbank should consider sacking Sarrazin.

“I’m completely certain that they will speak about this at the Bundesbank.”

Sarrazin told Welt am Sonntag newspaper: "All Jews share a certain gene; Basques have certain genes that differentiate them from others.” This followed a string of controversial remarks he has made about Muslims and integration in Germany.

Frank Bsirske, chairman of Germany’s largest union, Verdi, told daily Berliner Zeitung that Sarrazin had become an intolerable burden on an important public institution and therefore on the image of Germany as a whole. Sarrazin’s latest remarks were intellectually indefensible, particularly in light of Germany’s history, Bsirske said.

The Social Democrats’ general secretary Andrea Nahles said Sarrazin’s views had “drifted far from the values of social democracy and the consensus of our democracy.”

He has previously been sharply criticised by both Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle and Defence Minister Karl Theodor zu Guttenberg.

AFP/DDP/DPA/The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

10:59 August 30, 2010 by el3ktro
And again, only personal attacks against Sarrazin, nobody willing or able to prove that his statements are false.

It really doesn't help to tell him to shut up, when what he's saying is true. If what he's saying is not true, then why don't they prove that to us?

Studies clearly show that immigrants from EU countries, the Americas, Asia, East Europe and India have virtually no problems to integrate. They speak the language, they have good education or do their best to achieve a good education, they have jobs, they mix with the local population. The only immigrant group where there is a large percentage with massive problems are Muslims, that is a sad but true fact, and all studies regarding this matter show it.

For example, Muslims are the only immigrant group that has people who don't speak German even after the 3rd generation!! No other immigrant group has these language problems.

But still, the official immigrant statistics from the government do NOT separate the different immigrant groups - they are all simply referred to as 'the immigrants', making us believe that all immigrant groups share the same problems.

Of course there are Muslims who do integrate well, and Sarrazin never ever denied that and even welcomes them, but they are not the problem, it's the large amount of Muslims that do not integrate well, and this is a topic that needs to be discussed and where we need to find a solution.

Our politics has denied this for ages now, and Sarrazin simply has the nuts to speak it out.
11:58 August 30, 2010 by Portnoy
It's sad that Germany's answer to Sarah Palin is this thug. He's not even entertaining.
12:24 August 30, 2010 by whatzup
No wonder the chancellor is irritated, the truth about immigration and culture in germany is inconvenient and political hot potato.
12:42 August 30, 2010 by WFBB
If his statement is true, then it cannot be racist - it¦#39;s a scientific fact. Let¦#39;s take another example. ¦quot;Many black Africans have black curly hair¦quot;. Is that racist, or is there an elephant in the hairdressing salon?

If his statement is false, then he is a liar, and not fit for office.

Any googling I¦#39;ve done points to a common middle-eastern gene rather than a specific Jewish gene. There¦#39;s something to ponder!

The man is merely naïve. He doesn¦#39;t understand the media¦#39;s need for sound-bites, as opposed to truth.

I am reminded of a speech given by a UK Cabinet Minister,Enoch Powell¦#39;s, speech in the sixties. It was an erudite speech lasting nearly an hour in the House of Commons, in which he warned of the dangers of immigrants (whatever their colour or creed) swamping the native communities, and the local services, unless some measures were taken by the Government of the day. He stressed that it wasn¦#39;t the immigrants¦#39; fault, merely that immigrants tend to gravitate to communities where others of their ilk are commonplace. What came out in the media? ¦quot;Rivers of Blood¦quot;. A classical quotation from Greek or Latin history, involving the river Tiber. His career was ruined.
12:46 August 30, 2010 by concerned4u
Does Mr. Sarrazin like to eat Doenner Kebab?
12:52 August 30, 2010 by WFBB
Please ignore -- just wondering why my punctuation is ALF.

"hello, on a DE kbd"

"hello,on a UK kdbd"
13:49 August 30, 2010 by LancashireLad
The guy's just published a book which deals with, amongst other things, exactly this subject. He's after publicity. It's well known that any publicity is good publicity.

Without reading the full text of anything he has said, WFBB's comment could very well apply here (DISCLAIMER I do not in any way condone the sentiments uttered by Sarrazin which the press have leapt on to sell newspapoers.)

I would however contest that the man is not naive and is using the press to publicise his book.
14:27 August 30, 2010 by ahmdsamir
So if someone says that African Americans are mostly criminals because the statistics say so , this is science? Hell no, this is racism.

If you want to talk science you have to open your eyes, and look deeper, then you will see that crime is highly correlated with poorer communities, which due to social condition and historical roots force a lot of black families into poverty.

Two more things:

1- There are a lot of Muslim who live in Germany that are doctors and Engineers PhD and Masters, actually not only in Germany but all over the western world.

2-There are alot of Germans who embraced Islam, so you can't really say that Muslims are an ethnic group with a certain gene that make them retarded or so as Mr Sarrazin earlier hinted.

This is pure racism.
15:04 August 30, 2010 by Al uk
Since when has muslim been a race?

Herr Sarrazin is bang on the money!
15:10 August 30, 2010 by antrodemus
It's a mistake to talk about Muslims as if they are a single uniform group of people with shared attributes (aside from religion). The issue in Germany is about Turks, not Muslims. The ignorance and amnesia concerning immigration policy is profound. No one wants to take credit for decades of bad policy.

Large numbers of Turks were invited to Germany about four decades ago to provide much needed labour, acquire skills, and take those skills home. The guest worker programme was as much about international development aid as it was about addressing a critical labour shortage. Turkey helped the German economy by lending its labour, and Germany paid Turkey back by giving Turkish workers training and experience. Integration wasn't an issue at all, as the workers were expected to leave sooner or later, and many of them in fact did. Maintaining the workers' cultural connection to Turkey (rather than Germany) was a matter of official policy. Again, absolutely no provisions were made for integrating Turkish guest workers into German society in the long run, even after it was clear that they weren't all going home. Integration was an afterthought, and it is now a meaningless buzzword.

What changed attitudes toward Turkish immigrants was economic change. Increasing pressure on the economy and the disappearance of many jobs in areas like mining made many Turkish migrants completely redundant, and turned public opinion against them.
15:54 August 30, 2010 by Eastard
Islam has declared the West as decadent, evil, and unholy... I have not seen were the non-fundamentalist Muslims have declared differently (silence is interesting)... So what is the attraction to living there...? Why build a Mosque in NYC or a bank in Germany... etc... etc.. Someone will answer "that it is a free world and they should be allowed to do anything they want..." Try building a Christian Church in their world and see what happens.. Their laws protect them in their country ... and your laws protect them in your country... Sounds like a good deal for them...

At some point the globalization of world peoples need to accept that vastly different political interests are at work... and will take advantage of those moral high ground folks that want everything equal.. It is unfortunate that the world is not this way in any time or type of reality... Your leader is making comments he believes in in a way that is acceptable... You do not have to agree with him and you should allow opinion without the useless classification of "racism" so wrongly attached to disagreement...
16:49 August 30, 2010 by slawek
The book has 4 of 5 stars and 59 reviews on amazon.de, btw.
16:57 August 30, 2010 by michael4096
The reference to knocker powell's 'rivers of blood' speech is appropriate. So what happened to the rivers of blood? Well there weren't any, actually!

So it is here. To those asking for evidence that he is wrong, perhaps the question should be where is the evidence he is right?

Where are the statistics showing decreased intelligence among immigrants?

Where are all these problems caused by immigration and immigrants? Its not in the newspapers.

How many 3rd generation turks don't speak german?
17:15 August 30, 2010 by thomasii
It¦#39;s not racism to criticise a religion! What rubbish!

Whatever happened to freedom of speech? I really hate the feeble European politicians that line up to criticise and destroy anyone who brings up these problems ­ cultural masochism.

There are real problems between Islamic and western values and they need to be discussed.
17:21 August 30, 2010 by Beachrider
Wow, some of you have heard/read one Islamic person say/write something and now assert it as the way that every Islamic person thinks. Who the hell thinks that the world runs western democracies that way?

The USA was founded on religious freedom. At least 7 of the original 13 colonies were founded by people fleeing religious prosecution in Europe. For this reason, the USA cannot abandon the Moslem populace. Modern German traditions come from the mid-1700s and enlightened tolerance of outside cultures.

All of that being said, there are some confrontational Moslem/Christian/Jewish fundamentalists that have radicalized some parts of their following. It isn't helping the resolution of differences, but is causing them to accumulate enough power to alter believers and non-believers. When they make it enough-about apprehending/eliminating them, then other options get closed off. OBL is in such a position. I don't think that there are 10 others in that situation yet, though.
17:46 August 30, 2010 by raayuno
@elektro

again, provide a link to support your statements or STFU.
18:04 August 30, 2010 by OkieinBerlin
I suppose that Herr Sarrazin is entitled to his theories and opinions, at least those presented in this newspaper, but that is all they are -- I've seen no science or research supporting any of his controversial claims. What is quite striking about Sarrazin's comments, at least judging from reader comments in this forum, is just how many readers accept his slurs, generalizations and stereotypes as fact. The burden of proof is with him, not those who disagree with him. I suspect that such crackpot science and baseless claims as advanced by Sarrazin and his like serve a broader, increasingly popular political agenda (hence the loud support from his conservative admirers in the US) for whom research, fact and science has taken a back seat to loud and divisive rhetoric. I ask Sarrazin and his supporters to offer up some real evidence to support these theories.
19:59 August 30, 2010 by romber58
I only want to comment that i think it,s great that someone like Sarrazin forces the politically correct in this country to sit up from their cozy armchairs.

We all know that these are themes that are talked about in the real world and i am enjoying the squirming embarrassment of the politicians who would love to have ignored any debate in this country .Notice that the are all trying to kick him out of the party or cancelling his speaking engagements,,,anything to avoid a debate...weak willed ,bequem cowards the lot of them.
20:03 August 30, 2010 by bramblebush
I find his theory to be correct for the most part. I am also alarmed that the Fatherland will be the first European nation to ban the manufacture and consumption of Bier and Wine. I wonder how the ethnic Germans will feel about listening to that incessant screaming from the minaret¦#39;s for the Muslim call to prayer...No bratwurst….

This man has some smarts and no Palin...
20:21 August 30, 2010 by Psychoid
Oh yea, what a hero. He only tells the truth, rite? Like that "all jews have a certain gene". And suddenly everyone attacks him for being racist. Poor victim Sarrazin.

Seriously, I think many germans are retarded for applauding this troll and taking him serious. I mean it's not unusual for rightwing extremists to believe in esoteric bullshit, but in this case many supporters aren't even extremists. They don't see that what he's trying to say between the lines (muslims have a gene defect which makes them resistant to assimilation) is complete bullshit.
20:51 August 30, 2010 by raayuno
By the way, if he's only telling the truth, how come he's not tellin how Germany is basically financing the zionist regime in Palestine with billions of tax payer money and state of the art weaponary sytems?ist it possibly beause those who are blackmailing Germany are too powerfull for the truth to be told, especially by a german? This was clearly manifested when he simply stated a proven fact about the genes of teh joos. he's been abarking for months, and the moment he mentioned teh joos, suddenly everybody wants him to be fired/kicked out of the SPD, which will prolly soon happen, over one TRIVIAL remark.

You don't see him talking bout the blackmail, but the turks and arabs, they're too weak to speak up for themselves, so yeah, lets blame it all on them, the jews of the 21 century. How so typical German of him. Guess he's not so straightup afterall.
21:00 August 30, 2010 by romber58
@Psychoid

Well i dont agree with anything that smacks of racism and if he said that about the Jews then he is obviously a crackpot ,,by the way to be a muslim is not to be part of a race but a cultural and religious thing ...but i am happy for Sarrazin to express his views,firstly because i believe in free speech and secondly because he is giving this comfortably.politically correct society a kick up the arse and forcing them into a debate that they would dearly love to ignore,
21:24 August 30, 2010 by HollyMacarony
And who is to blame for the fact that certain part of Muslims is not integrating well into German society? The ''Muslim culture'' ...hahaha give me a break.

Muslims in US, Canada for example are much better integrated than anywhere in Europe. Huge part of the blame goes to the integration policies that Germany has implemented in the past decades.

He is making blatant generalizations, and forgetting that Muslims in Germany are not only Turks... there are European muslims like Bosnians and Albanians, who are secular just as any other Europeans. Majority of Muslims in Germany dont even practice Islam on daily basis... therefor he is wrong to say that ''Islam'' is the problem.

Anyway, this kind of talk is counterproductive and is alienating certain part of German citizens... in his book Sarrazin is speaking only to ethnic Germans, which proves that he considers Germans with immigrant background as outsiders, regardless if they are 4th, 5th... generation...
22:17 August 30, 2010 by Kennneth Ingle
Is there anything in Sarrazin's book which is not true? If so what? The undemocratic way that the German Goverment and the SPD are dealing with this matter does not speak up well for this country. Should this man not be speaking the truth, then it must be easy to prove it. Everything else is a condemnation of freedom of speach. If his words - as he claims - are based on facts, why all this Hu-Ha.
23:37 August 30, 2010 by Beachrider
The SPD is policy-making organization. If someone is inconsistent with their ideas of policy-making, then OUT they go. No brain surgery there. They are not silencing him, they are finding his policy-projection to be too different from the ones they want. Let him find another policy-making organization that matches his thought processes. (If you find hamburgers hideous, don't work at McDonalds)

If he manages to bring thousands with him as he goes out the door, so be it.

The anti-moslem feelings are a symptom of something. Part of it could be fear/xenophobia of culture change in Germany. Part of it could be something darker. The EU's largest economy needs to talk this out. If this radicalizes the fringes, then the fringes tend to overplay their hand. The response to the overplay will set the course of Deutchland over the next years.
00:18 August 31, 2010 by Otto Von Vegas
I haven't read the guy's book, so I wouldn't rush to criticize it... Although judging the book by its cover, it could easily have been made prettier. As usual, as soon as a politician, albeit clumsily (or shrewdly) points out that some cultures aren't as suited to western democracies as others, he gets crucified. Whilst this may well be justified, the evidence so far is flimsy. Islam isn't easily compatible with sexual liberation, blasphemy, or sauerkraut. That's just the way it is. You can't move from Sana'a to Dusseldorf without a decent induction, and your kids will suffer if you aren't able to track their progress at school because you can't read. So you to end up with large underskilled communities that just don't blend in. That's a sad fact that needs to be remedied, but it's true. To be jewish, your mother needs to be jewish, and, guess what, women pass on what is called mitochondrial dna, and that part of a Jewish person's DNA will have been passed on unadulterated since before Moses came down that mountain. That's just fact. It may be that quite a few gentiles share those genes though, we've been around for hundreds of thousands of years and if you go back far enough, we're all related, but would a population emanating from 12 or 13 tribes 8000 years ago share a certain amount of genetic make-up? you bet... If you're going to disagree with him, at least find something in his book that's factually incorrect, but shutting a guy up just because certain truths are unpleasant to you is just as offensive to me as racism.
00:21 August 31, 2010 by Logic Guy
Well, allow me to introduce an interesting observation.

A new poll just came in America, that said 2/3 of Americans see themselves as being conservative. And most Germans would probably indentitfy as being conservative as well. So what has been the problem for all of these years?

Well, the truth is, the appropriate from of conservatism has never been offered, not in America or Germany. And as result, both nations, along with many other Western nations, have been plauged by avoidable problems.

A Moral-Conservative government would say, "Let's value the indentity, culture and way of life of all people. And that each man should have a country of his own. And that every law abiding person deserves peace, stability and prosperity."

Say what you will. But only a moral-conservative structure is capable of creating the brilliant world we have all imagined. Everything else will take humanity closer to extinction.
03:21 August 31, 2010 by RevolutionUnknown
His stance is absolutely non-sensical. As someone rightly pointed out its more to do with assimilation of certain races than the religion.

Lately I was working on a project in a small town near the city of Heilbronn. In this town on a top of a hill was a Russian ghetto, and all the inhabitants were there were absolutely oblivious to the rest of the city. And I am sure that even their 3rd generation is unable to speak good German. Similarly this is true for Turks and is irrespective of the religious beliefs they have.

If being Muslim is the only reason for not fitting into the Western society then how come 7 million of them settled peacefully in USA. I think amalgamation is a two way street.
04:55 August 31, 2010 by nepo77
@RevolutionUnkown

Only 0,8 % of the US is Muslim. You are Bullshitting, the US doesn't have the intensity of the Problem as Europe does. Plus the US has allot of space, there are white only neighborhoods and black only neighborhoods. Oh and a Muslim killing his fellow comrades despite intensive military brainwashing is really a great example of good integration which Europe indeed cant show for.
05:37 August 31, 2010 by Eagle1
Sorry, but the guy is right. First, he singled out a religion, not a race, so the "racism" allegations are nonsensical. Second, either he is correct about Muslims' inability or lack of desire to integrate, or he is not. I've yet to see someone disprove his allegations. I understand many Germans' desire to reject anything that remotely sounds like racism, but too many of you have engaged in intellectual laziness. Either disprove his theories, or shut up.
05:57 August 31, 2010 by HollyMacarony
@Eagle1

There is no Yes or No answer you dummy. There are some muslims who integrate and others who dont. You cant make blatant generalizations.

And yes he is racist, when you discriminate against a whole culture/religion you are talking about specific group of people. When you hear the word muslim, do you think of an Arab, or a Swede? So again, yes, this generalizations are racist.
06:36 August 31, 2010 by parografik
There seem to be a tremendous amount of articles in the Local concerning xenophobia. Sarrazin is just one example, along with the fairly regular notices concerning Neo-Nazi outbreaks. The third example that fits into this which seems to indicate that this paranoia is endemic is subject of Germany's myopia concerning foreign born worker's qualifications being unacceptable for employment within Germany. If Germany's education standards were higher this might be understandable, but they seem to compare rather unfavorably against some other developed countries. This would suggest that "Muslims" are really only just another group that doesn't pass muster because it is somehow different from some unknowable ideal.

I'm not sure if this reporting is representative of German press, of German politics, or of German common discourse. It strikes me as meaningless ankle-chewing.
07:33 August 31, 2010 by Victor Scicluna
Every time someone makes a comment which critises foreigners we quickly label him/her as a racist. But lets be honest with ourselves and ask how pure are we really.

I am not a racist cause I do not discriminate against a people just for colour or race but I do keep away from certain sections of social behaviour. I just bought a flat in Munich and my budget not being the best I was often shown flats in areas where I would not want my kids to grow up at. I cannot claim that these people were of one race but unfortunately it is a clear fact that mostly they were more or less of Turkish origin.

And now we all shout racist, yes lets ask those of us with young daughters and see them openly claim that they would be happy if their duaghters would date a young Turkish muslim. When I confronted my friend with this question she quickly said that´s differeent cause it´s her duaghter. Oh I see, she has nothing against Turkish but her duaghter should keep away from them.

Are we racists? No, I have no grudge against the Turkish but I condem any foreigner who refuses to intergrate after so many years.

I am a foreigner, I have lived here for over 20 years and yet I have kept my nationality, I still drink my tea with milk and sugar but apart from that I am fully integrated into dialy German life, try my best to master the language, supported Germany in the World Cup (could not get myself to do this when they played England) and my kids were dressed with German flags and shouting their hearts out. I want my kids to grow up as normal citizens while still being proud of thier father´s origin.

Foriegners can integrate without losing their identity, many Turkish do not want to do this. Do not blame Germany for this.
10:42 August 31, 2010 by Zobirdie
They don't like what he has to say, and therefore he is a racist and must be sacked.

I suppose he's lucky he may only be sacked. Germany has a bad history when it comes to dealing with people whose words they don't like. And I do make that analogy on purpose. It is what the wound-up public are suggesting... and what does that make them...? Truth be told, shutting up people because you don't like what they have to say is BEING fascist.. even if you call yourself a leftist. Be honest with yourself.

Truthfully, the media is playing up big soundbites of his book to whip up a frenzy. They aren't playing overly fair. They've focussed on the Jewish gene- but he actually said something along the lines of a jewish gene or a basque gene. Are the basques up in arms? No. But use the 'J' word in Germany and half the population will have their heads explode!

As for the issues in the book, I've lived in Germany for two years and I have had a lot of issues with muslim fellows who are completely unintegrated. I had one grab my breast on the street during the day and tell me to go for coffee with him. On the other hand, I dated a turkish muslim fellow from Turkey who outright said that the Turks in Germany aren't welcome in Turkey because they are such bumpkins... So you know.. I think there is a lot of truth in what I perceive Sarrazin to be saying.

But people who refuse to integrate into the standards of the culture they arrive in should be sent home. It is not the obligation of a Germany to accept the 'poor, huddled masses' of other countries when those people don't want to subscribe to German cultural norms. If you come here to live, you should do it because you WANT to live in a German culture or you completely accept German ways of life outside your home. If you don't, then What The Frack are you doing in Germany in the first place? Do what you want in your own home, but when you go outside, it's German time.

And frankly, I don't think that's being racist.
11:58 August 31, 2010 by essellone
Wikipedia states that racism is comprised of 2 factors in its definition, "Racism is the belief that the genetic factors which constitute race are a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race".

While Sarrazin clearly believes the first factor, his critics have, by default, assumed the second without cause. Islam has done a wonderful job of pursuading the rest of the world that (its) religion = culture = race. Wrong! Race is determined by genetics (scientific fact!), religion is based on belief, culture is based on local custom. Unless there is a very close relationship between the gene pool and the vast majority of the adherents to a particular religion (and Israelis could be considered a case in point), any association between race and religion is invalid. As for culture, the Islamic approach is like saying that it is a religious requirement for its (usually female) followers to wear a particular brand of shoes i.e. a ludicrous imposition on its followers and everyone who comes into contact with them.

Islam has no respect for the indiginous population of any area that is not Islamic: if any minority tried to impose their will on the general populace in a Muslim country in the same way that Muslims do in European countries, the members of the minority would be tried under Sharia law and executed. Remeber the English teacher who was imprisoned for daring to call a teddy bear "Mohammed"?

Sarrazin is doing Europe a service by bringing the debate into the mainstream. It is the politicians who are failing the majority of the population by cowering in face of specious accusations of "racism". For some reason, this seems to be a trump card in Europe: in reality, it should be regarded for what it is - the last gasp of someone who hasn't got a justifiable basis for their political opinion.

After all, if you told a psychiatrist that you believed in a non-corporial being who spoke to you every day and made you do and believe things that no rational person should do or believe, they would rightly lock you away as a danger to society. Therefore, how is fundamentalist religion different from psychiatric illness?
12:01 August 31, 2010 by proclusian
I'm not sure why there are so many people here who are saying that no one has disproven Sarrazin's claims, and that Germany (i.e., his own party, the SPD, and others) are treating him unfairly / undemocratically.

For those of you who actually read German, there have been several good refutations published in Die Zeit over the past week, in particular an interview with Sarrazin himself, where it becomes quite clear that his logic -- in making the claims he does -- is simply invalid. He is starting from certain statistical premises but the conclusions he wants to draw simply do not follow from these premises.

So, from my point of view, I think there has been quite enough refutation of conclusions which probably shouldn't be taken all that seriously in the first place. Expel this Vollidiot from the SPD already.
13:15 August 31, 2010 by lovelybug
Interesting ideas and concepts in the comments. Anyhow , i did not read a single proper statistics regarding all the mess above. Please see the following article from an authentic newspaper :) . I think it will make most of you happy who wants Turks to leave Germany. The article claims that the number of Turks leaving Germany is more than the Turks coming to Germany.

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,704114,00.html

Please read carefully the following paragraph in the article

" Oft sind es Geschichten gut ausgebildeter, gut integrierter Deutsch-Türken. Die große Mehrheit der Auswanderer sind junge Akademiker, die Deutschland aus wirtschaftlichen Gründen den Rücken kehren. Etwa 40.000 Türken und türkischstämmige Deutsche gingen im vergangenen Jahr zurück in das Land ihrer Väter, das sind 10.000 mehr als umgekehrt in die Bundesrepublik kamen. Der Trend der Zuwanderung hat sich damit eindeutig gewendet.

".

Have fun !!!!!
17:09 August 31, 2010 by Ali Baba
Definately not....

Definately not....!!!

>> These were the Muslims Turks helping Germany out to stand where it is now.
18:17 September 1, 2010 by smitherman
The problem isn't what Thilo Sarrazin said, but that so many agree with him. Or is the problem not that so many agree with him, but that there is no open debate about the subject in any western country because of the fear of insulting the Muslim population? But if the same would be said about Christians in Muslim countries, would it be news? Of course not, infidels stay out is the well known golden rule of the Muslim nations, except in those areas where they allow cohabitation by persons with appropriate skills they need to import. Why is the West always required to apply itself to a higher standard? Because they're too scared to speak their minds, always afraid of giving offense. For better or worse, Thilo Sarrazin has spoken his mind. Let's hope it leads to a healthy, open, non-emotional debate which is long overdue. Let those who wish to disprove his statements do so and not rely on another silence of the majority response.
19:25 September 1, 2010 by mehta_p
if you want to be part of Germany and to have German nationality, then you have to be atleast like a German. You might not forget your country where you born, but when you apply or accept citizenship of any country, you should know your additional responsibilites of being a German, your role for your nation Germany.

If you can't mix up with the people, if you can't accept culture, society then there is no point to apply for German passport.

When you apply for citizenship, then be and behave like Germans. So Germany won't loose it's identity and Germans won't become strangers in their own land.

It should be applicable for every forgeingners.

Germans have fought back wel to life, business, research and sports after WW-II and have maintained their own great image.

I wish such image may last forever.

I appreciate study (research) of Sarrazin.
20:39 September 1, 2010 by VoodooDingy
Is it just me... or does his moustache seem a little too wide? LOLZ
03:18 September 4, 2010 by Paul Mannstein
Remarkable that anyone who expresses a controversial opinion in Germany is immediately demonized and has his or her livelyhood destroyed.
08:33 September 4, 2010 by DrGideonPolya
Sarrazin's opinions are on Muslims are ignorant, false, offensive and dangerous. However the screams of outrage from Mainstream "politically correct" German politicians is hypocrisy in the extreme.

Germany is involved in an illegal, immoral and genocidal war in Afghanistan in which 311,000 under-5 year old infants die every year (UNICEF) and 440,000 Afghans die avoidably every year due to deprivation imposed by the US, NATO and Australian war makers.

In Occupied Afghanistan post-invasion non-violent avoidable deaths from deprivation total 3.5 million, post-invasion violent deaths may total 1 million (based on Iraq war comparisons), post-invasion under-5 infant deaths total 2.4 million and refugees total 3-4 million (with a further 2.5 million Pashtun refugees generated in NW Pakistan) - an Afghan Holocaust and an Afghan Genocide according to Article 2 of the UN Genocide Convention.

Germans deploring Sarrazin's words while ignoring the horrendous avoidable deaths associated with German and US Alliance war crimes in Occupied Afghanistan are guilty of hypocrisy, politically correct racism (PC racism) , holocaust denial, genocide denial and of complicity in war crimes.

Sure, Sarrazin should be dismissed from all public posts for his ignorant, false, offensive and dangerous comments. But Angela Merkel and all her US Alliance associates in the Afghan Genocide should be arraigned, tried and punished for complicity in horrendous war crimes.
13:59 September 5, 2010 by Ich
Sarrazin can not be "violating the dignity of a part of the population by insulting, deriding or denigrating them in a manner disturbing the public peace" when he points out the obvious. Muslims understand the difference between a fact and and an insult, and the fact that liberals don't.
16:44 September 8, 2010 by recherche
He must be getting towards hero status for many people who think such things must be talked about. In civilised society, it is not acceptable to have a subject labeled 'taboo' for all of eternity. You may disagree, perhaps, but the nub of the debate is his courage to speak.
11:18 September 9, 2010 by Actuality
I don't think the Third Reich were compatible with France, Poland, Holland or England but you didn't ask us first if YOU could go there, did you?
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