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Should the childless pay more tax?

The Local · 15 Feb 2012, 07:00

Published: 15 Feb 2012 07:00 GMT+01:00

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In a detailed paper submitted to Chancellor Angela Merkel, the conservative group surrounding Marco Wanderwitz, suggested that from next year, Germans over the age of 25 who do not have children, should pay a share of their income as a special tax.

Those with one child should pay half the rate, while the tax would be dropped altogether for people with two children.

“In particular regarding health and nursing insurance, people without any or just with one child currently profit considerably from the fact that others in their generation have had two or more children – because in old age they will get the same communal service with clearly reduced contribution,” the paper said.

Although the level of additional income tax was not mentioned in the paper, Die Welt daily said the thinking was of one percent for those with no children at all.

Wanderwitz said he wanted to stimulate a debate after young MPs expressed frustration that the extra payments levied since 2004 from childless people to pay for old age care were not creating enough of a financial reserve – and that other services funded by capital stockpiles should also include such provision.

Family Minister Kristina Schröder said she found it a more sensible proposition to support families with children rather than to penalise people without. And Merkel, who herself has no children, rejected the idea. She said on Tuesday she thought the idea of splitting people according to whether they had offspring or not, was not helpful.

Indeed the number of exceptions which would have to be written into any general childlessness tax proposal might seem mind-boggling – what about those who cannot medically have children? Or those in homosexual relationships – or people who are not in relationships at all? How about people raising step-children, or those without children who earn more as a result – and thus also pay more income tax anyhow? Would parents whose children die suddenly find their income tax rising?

Yet German social provision relies on income taxes which are simply not going to be available when the working population declines, as it is set to do, leaving a large bulge of pensioners needing medical and nursing care – to be paid for by a much smaller working generation. Would a tax on those who have not paid to raise those workers be a fair measure?

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08:09 February 15, 2012 by Tobugrynbak
Looks like wire brush enemas all round are required here for these politicians.

No need for extra taxes, as they are usually selfless within the community as they have time to spare on charitable works. Childless couples (whether by medical condition or choice) usually are less of a burden on the public purse.

In my experience they usually look after themselves with healthier living as well as financially so as not to be a burden on others.
08:10 February 15, 2012 by Englishted
Totalitarianism is it not.
09:07 February 15, 2012 by 1TruthTeller
Well said Tobugrynbak, I couldn't agree more. Rather than increase taxes or levy taxes against those without children, maybe better use of the taxes already collected would be in ordnung.

For starters, how about educating prospective parents on the responsibilities of having children? Many without children are acutely aware of those responsibilities, and chose not to be parents, rather than being bad parents. My observation is that many of those who have kids, probably would have been better off had they not had them. However, as this is a sensitive issue, and one of personal choice, I wouldn't go so far as the Chinese way as to legislate who can or can not have kids or how many, if at all. But think about it: you need a licence to go fishing, to have a dog and to drive a car. Surely, some degree of preparation should be necessary to be a parent, a far more onerous task? Surely, society should have some say in its future?
09:17 February 15, 2012 by bugger
Too often, it is not the intelligent ones who procreate. The conscious ones who make plans and think twice if they can even financially afford having children; they who do not want to only by able to let their children grow up in poverty, unemployment and degrading social circumstances; those who are homosexual, asexual or physically unable to procreate; those who just happen to not being fond of children; those who see overpopulation as the cause of most social misery in the world; those who consciously decide that contraception is better than abortion - they get punished by the state for not mindlessly procreating like animals.

No, it is neither 'normal because everybody procreates' nor unavoidable nor god-given nor to be demanded by society to procreate.

Fascist law.
09:44 February 15, 2012 by LancashireLad
They effectively already do pay more as they don't get Child Allowance (Kindergeld) and they don't (or wouldn't) get offered €500 per month to keep said kiddies at home. Utterly ridiculous.
09:49 February 15, 2012 by danceswithgoats
The future belongs to those who show up for it. It is unfortunate that Europe, as a whole, has chosen to snuff itself out.

1TruthTeller and bugger - my observation would be that those who chose to not have children were selfish and thought only of the here and now. Welcome to the uni-generational world of the godless secularists. This problem will right itself in one generation.
10:15 February 15, 2012 by mos101392
@TruthTeller and bugger

I fully agree with you!

@ danceswithgoats- Those that decide not to have children have the same rights as those who do. The world is already around 8 billion...how many more people do we need. If the Germans are procreating themselves, there's plenty Chinese and Indian who they can immigrate to do the work. Someone who is responsible who goes to school, gets a good job and decides not to have a family so they can afford better things in life, should not be punished by those who cannot control their own animal instincts and pay for them so they can spend the money at the local bar. If it is decided to give out "free" money...then they should be tested for drugs...so at least my hard earned money won't go to someone's drug addiction. Even better, if I have to pay for someone elses "romp in the bed", then let the support come in some other form besides hard cash...how about food coupons?

It's just NOT fair to expect those without offspring to pay for those with!!!!
10:30 February 15, 2012 by DoubleDTown
I thought Kristina had some good ideas before, but I think now her youth is showing through. This proposal to penalize those without children is a big "oops". Definitely better to support those with children.

On another topic, those posters above who say "it's just NOT fair to expect those without offspring to pay those with" -- keep that in mind when you start collecting pension benefits. Where do you think those younger, working taxpayers come from?
11:12 February 15, 2012 by William Thirteen
it seems to me that the same social goals could be achieved by increasing the Kindergeld if necessary, as well as increasing measures to help families with children.

However, as one without children - in the event this law passes i would need to do some cost/benefit analysis. It may end up being advantageous tax wise to have a child or two - but only spend the bare minimum (or even less!) to feed & clothe it - thus maximizing tax deductions! assuming nothing in the law requires children to be healthy, happy or otherwise not stunted growth wise. perhaps once the child reaches a certain age it could be swapped out with a less expensive infant - or there is some way of leasing children?
11:24 February 15, 2012 by Berliner Mauer
So... Those parents whose children have died or those who medically cannot have children or those who are single... or god forbid, those couples who chose not to have children... or wish to wait some years... They must pay for those who do, who can, or who accidently have children... ???

So... These people are deemed as not supporting the nation's populace growth and guilty of not producing taxpayers for future pensioners so they should therefore be punished... sorry but this sounds utterly obsurd and unfair...
11:31 February 15, 2012 by bugger
As opposed to 3rd world countries where you have to end your life in hunger and poverty in your very own mud hut if you do not have your ten to fifteen children to feed you (which either will die of hunger or tribal wars anyway), some societies have developed a system of socializing the financial burden in order to not let their people die of hunger on the street when they are old and cannot work anymore. This is called pension scheme.

As well as socialized health care financed through the tax system works (Britain for example), a socialized pension scheme paid for by the tax system does work (European countries, for example).

The conscious procreation refusers of Germany already have to pay more taxes and get less extras than the breeders. If a relevant number of uneducated, unskilled and never working breeders produces more uneducated, unskilled and never working offspring, then this system will not work anymore. There will be no younger _working_ taxpayers anymore but too many freeloaders.

If there are not enough jobs to generate income and taxes for social matters anymore, shrink. Who cares about "godless secularists" when there are no jobs, no affordable housing and food. Germany is a secular country by the wish of the autochthonous majority, by the way, so all these bigoted god-fearing theocrats better leave for countries suiting them better.

None of the peoples planning their population size through such concepts will die out; they just shrink to a reasonable number, adequate to the size of the country and its abilities to nourish their own people.
12:06 February 15, 2012 by HansT
To bring a bit of historical understanding...

Children have ALWAYS been the retirement plan of the world. For thousands of years, individual families were alone responsible for their own sick and elderly. As the Christian world expanded, help for widows and the infirm began to be seen as a corporate but still privately funded duty.

Only with the onset of the modern welfare state over the last ca. 150 years was this broadened to a government-enforced, taxable mandate, and as such is even more dependent on sufficient numbers of young people continually entering the working tax-paying world. Without them, the math only leads in one direction -- fewer workers supporting ever more non-workers; therefore greater taxes and lower benefits. By it's very nature, the social-welfare state demands a continually growing population base, but this is not happening.

Depending on immigration can't solve this either, as this is a worldwide problem. A temporary solution in one country or area exacerbates the problem elsewhere. China, with it's one-child policy, will grow old before it becomes rich enough to sustain itself, so count the Chinese out. The Muslim lands have high birth rates but low levels of workforce integration, not to mention the culturally-threatening demographic issues of ever-growing numbers of immigrants with little understanding or patience for the traditions and demographic expectations of the host country.

Arguments over "fairness" have little to do with the impending crisis. What would ultimately be "fair" would be if each one would be responsible for his own well-being and that of his own family, but that has been undermined by many decades of dependency upon the unsustainable promises from political leaders eager to be seen as "compassionate" but really eager for their own positions of power (i.e. access to wealth). As we are seeing in Greece, those promises are ultimately empty. It's only a matter of time before we see the same results throughout Europe and the world.
14:23 February 15, 2012 by raandy
What kind of mentality would initiate this. It is not enough that they have far fewer tax allowances, now they must pay more because they are childless.

They should get a tax break as they have no children in the school or medical systems, no kinder gelt, or education money while absent from work.

Good move exlax.
14:38 February 15, 2012 by ChrisRea
@ DoubleDTown #8

You say: 'I thought Kristina had some good ideas before, but I think now her youth is showing through. This proposal to penalize those without children is a big "oops". Definitely better to support those with children. '

Well, that's exactly what Ms. Schröder said: 'Family Minister Kristina Schröder said she found it a more sensible proposition to support families with children rather than to penalise people without.'
18:35 February 15, 2012 by drdoom
It is simply related to race. Germans (and most of the EU) pissed off seeing so many different color people on street and worst their population keep shrinking ­ at least that is what we are told.

The first lie is if you have kids, then they take care of your later stage life. I wish they give some solid data to support this argument. As far as I know, very few people take care of their parents¦#39; last stage of life in Germany. Majority of them taken care by their pension/retirement fund and savings.

The second lie is if you do not have child, then some unknown future generation pay for you. Then what about present generation payment for the retirement fund? We pay huge amount for this, is not it? Government has to invest wisely and pay back. Period.

I paid 40+ % tax in my stay in Germany (not even a single visit to doctor in 2.5 years) and now I am out of country. For me it does not make any sense at all. The only concession I got is 1 % religious tax (another unknown mystery to me ­ religious tax?).

Religious tax, and childless tax ­ Is it specifically German hypocrisy or some other country also has this tax? Can someone help?

@ Tobugrynbak, mos101392, TruthTeller and bugger ­ well said.
20:41 February 15, 2012 by carlm
You can't make this stuff up.

By all means, more taxes on those without children, with children, thinking of children, empty nesters, few children, many children, young children, etc ... These kommie idiots, pardon the redundancy, want more taxes for everything so they can play candyman, handing out favors to everyone, in the hopes of being reelected.

Politicians this stupid ... leave me speechless.
22:26 February 15, 2012 by freechoice
stop feeding off the middle class. they are broke, you can't suck anymore money from them through taxation.

go for the filthy rich folks! only they could save the country from bankruptcies.
03:27 February 16, 2012 by volvoman9
Seems to me they have this one backwards. Would there be a bonus for blond haired blue eyed children. I don't mean to be insensitive but it's hard to ignore the parallels.

@HansT Very well said indeed.
09:57 February 16, 2012 by bugger
@drdoom The introduction of a mandatory church membership tax dates back to Austrian Adolf who made contracts with the heads of the Catholic and Lutheran church so these would have a permanent income with the German state being the collection agency for these holy men. In exchange, these churches would not interfere politically with Adolf's politics. This tax still contradicts the German constitution's demand for a separation of church and state..

@volvoman9 Blond and blue-eyed? Who? Ahh... yes, the majority of the Finnish people are blond and blue eyed. The majority of ethnic Germans is not blond and blue-eyed. Your parallels do not work.

Also, there is nothing wrong with not feeding the whole world anymore when the own kin has nothing to eat. Every country has the right to care about their own people first. It is not a question of 'race', as volvoman9 suggested, it is a question of the existence of a nation which is impoverished to death by their own criminal upper class.
12:30 February 16, 2012 by peter douglas
Lets not segregate against those without children for there is always a reason why some decide to do away with kids,but for some of us with kids it becomes a nightmare when your kid has to start school like here in Berlin, example its logik that the nearest school to where you live should be the fast choice but hell no in Berlin the Mauer still alive and you have to be sheephearded like a communist to a school the senat orders.the reason is not about taxes but simplifying and making it easier for would be parents of tommorrow,even if you tax people to the tilt and still retain the archaic system of family bereaucracy you better forget about tommorrows tax payer for only the brave and insane will tango.
12:36 February 16, 2012 by Aburgboy
So... people with no kids need to pay more taxes so that they can give the money to people that do have kids because they need more money to pay for social services int he future. Mafia... send a mugger to rob a store then send the Don to offer protection from the mugger.
14:25 February 16, 2012 by frigitar
Only in Germany would they have to pay you to have sex.
19:34 February 16, 2012 by deborah1
"Little Jemmy" http://www.windowsgreetingcards.com does'nt like to be taxed.
21:09 February 16, 2012 by oneforall
"On another topic, those posters above who say "it's just NOT fair to expect those without offspring to pay those with" -- keep that in mind when you start collecting pension benefits. Where do you think those younger, working taxpayers come from?"

Bang on!, @DoubleDTown #8
02:41 February 17, 2012 by zigfreid
Of course! if you have no balls, you should give all your money to the Merkozy yisrael, if you have one ball you should only give half your salary, if you have a good pair of solid balls you should tell them to get the F--- away from you for any F--ing taxes.
05:37 February 17, 2012 by volvoman9
@ bugger, I enjoyed your earlier comments and agree with them in substance though I find them to be a bit myopic. That the majority of ethnic Germans are not of Aryan decent ( and I must confess to the improper use of this term in that it is a bastardization of true meaning to include physical features) is not the point. It was a sarcastic comment about the continuity of a ridiculous social practice... nothing more, though it seems to have piqued your nationalistic feelings. Job done eh?

I think where the suggestion of race is proffered you are confusing my comments with those of drdoom. Do try and keep up.

For your edification I find the practice of attempting to steer a society to conform to a standard of procreation to be, as you put it, Fascist. This is a transparent and ill conceived attempt to control one of the most sacred of choices given to a democratic society. These idiots need to be excised from a position of influence by an incredulous public.
07:37 February 17, 2012 by AmiHeiner
There are plenty of people who aren't capable of having children. I think it's unfair to punish them for a painful fact they already have to live with every day. To call them selfish is even more unfair.
10:46 February 17, 2012 by minnaarp
It is one's choice not to have children to be financially more independent. The young MP's have now created an incentive for couples to have children just to pay fewer taxes. I see this as discrimination against childless couples. What happened to freedom of choice? Now one gets taxed because of choice. There will soon be a population explosion in Germany with an economic collapse.
12:30 February 17, 2012 by iseedaftpeople
It is deeply cynical to expect childless people to pay more taxes for their childlessness.

Why is it cynical? Well, when you talk to people in Germany who are of child-rearing age but don't have kids (yet), one of the biggest reasons they will give you for the absence of offspring is economic uncertainty. Millions of people in their late 20s to mid-30s work incredibly long hours, they go from one temp position to the next, and even if they secure a permanent employment contract, their pay is dismal considering the fact that they more often than not invested quite a few years of their lives in a high-profile college degree.

These are all conditions that politics in Germany created, which are now boastfully touted by Merkel's government as a new German "Jobwunder". It may well be that unemployment, if you simply define it as the absence of any employment at all, is at an all-time low. But it comes at a huge price for this country's young work force. And one way in which they pay this price is that many see no way to start a family and be able to provide for their potential offspring with any degree of certainty.

And now the same politicians who are responsible for this big job market mess want to punish those who are caught in this dilemma by taxing them for their childlessness?
12:56 February 17, 2012 by murka
Isn't it called Kinderfreibetrag?
14:27 February 17, 2012 by karenandklaus
This is absolutely absurd. The government SHOULD be taxing more on those who are sick, alcoholics and grossly overweight due to unhealthy, overindulgence and excessive eating habits. As it is precisely that these group of people who are a BURDEN to society. What about those who are careful and conscious about their dietary habits. Would it be fair for them to have to bear the costs of these people. The governing bodies in every country are completely screwed up in their way of running things and making things "fair". Why should the responsible citizens pay the price for the irresponsible ones? Why's that? What's happenend to accountability and responsibility?
15:29 February 17, 2012 by Gretchen
I think the idea makes sense. The future generation will have to care for many old age people who put other things, such as career, holidays etc. first before children. Kids are expensive and work (and the Kindergeld does not cover the costs) and a special contribution by the childless could be used to help fund the stretched budget for old age care, healthcare for the aging population and maybe also something for kids, such as better childcare. Like it.
15:35 February 17, 2012 by SWB123
We in America who still have two brain cells to rub together, have been shouting at the top of our lungs since the first Clinton administration, that 'this sort of thing' is the inevitable course that socialism historically imposes on its 'serfs'. Why anyone wants to give up liberty for serfdom is beyond me. By the way, what is the current tax rate in Germany now for the average man?
15:48 February 17, 2012 by johnny108
Because I have no children- I spend most of my time working- generating tax revenue for the government. I spend NO time taking kids to the doctor, etc.

I am likely more productive than anyone with 2 children.

Tax me more- and I will leave. Many will follow- where will your money come from then?
17:16 February 17, 2012 by nightynight
I have four children, and I think this is a terrible idea.

You can argue til the cows come home about who contributes more to society - I happen to think that I do (I work full time) - but we already get child benefit and tax advantages.

If the government needs more money to fund the social program, then they should look at the example of Britain, who is currently coming to the point of capping benefits (hopefully).

A professional in the social industry told me recently that it is Germany's biggest industry, and he recommended that I should try to get my children's school fees paid by the Jugendamt (because our family went through a bad patch that affected the children's development).

I refused, but I have heard from other people stories about how much money can be got if you play the system.

The system needs to be reformed if we can't afford it.

What I would like to see from the childless is a bit more tolerance of children and acknowledgement that they don't know everything about child-rearing - but they should not be taxed more.
17:31 February 17, 2012 by Whipmanager
OK, this set of comments is exactly why you are all in here commenting. When will you all see that the role of government isnt to take wha tyou earn as theirs, but to more carefully account for and spend the money they receive. You look at -and the politicians do too, the earned money of Germans as property of the state. That they have a right to take what they want when they want. You spend time looking for where to take the money instead of asking why they need more?

You need to stop, and see. They have more than they need. There are too many politicians and beamters in your system. The Politicians (POLs) should ask you for permission to expend every penny they need, justify why and how they are spending it and give proof it is being spent wisely. Instead they treat your accounts as if they are extensions of the federal budget and an unending source of more taxes.

Wake up. Account for every penny spent, and make them work with what they have, minus a healthy amount to come back to you so you can spend and save and thereby support the growth of germany. Every dollar taken out of the economy for use in government spending is the equivalent to more than 10 out of the local economy. You ahve to realize you can be more prosperous if you are using the money to make goods, bought and sold to consumers. Then everyone has a job that wants one, everyone can have kids that wants them, and the market forces will dictate the price and availability of goods based on cost of producing- choice is the best way ahead for mankind.
19:07 February 17, 2012 by The-ex-pat
Not everyone who is childless is by choice. My youngest son's godmother cannot have children as also with my brother-in-law and his wife. Both do not fit into the perfect family that the adoption agencies want to see so are not allowed to adopt. Regardless they still have to pay the extra percent and now they could/will be screwed again. Such is life I suppose................
20:16 February 17, 2012 by Gretl
So, if you are too selfish, or incapable of having children, the result is the same: You did not produce the future generation to pay for your retirement issues. You don't want to pay a tax now? OK. How about you won't receive retirement benefits in the future? You will be responsible for your own expenses. Children are expensive. No argument. They are an investment in the future. If you aren't paying for your own children, you can invest in your own future.
22:11 February 17, 2012 by strixy
What they forget is that childless people are usually able to fully commit to their career and therefore generate higher income and higher taxes! Plus who exactly pays for all the child benefit and other benefits connected to childcare? Eh? This argument is a populistic nightmare and is discriminatory, therefore has no chances of success.
22:27 February 17, 2012 by Whipmanager
Gretl: Your response is cold and callous. I shold think that you pay your taxes, and you get what you should. Your system is wasteful in any case since it is taking from the next generations to pay for an entitlement from today. The real answer is that the money should be invested in individual retirement accounts, and hnot into a fuind the government uses to give more money to seomone to keep their standard of living high artificially. State retirement should be-at best to pay for the necessities. If there is to be a vacation, then the person shold cover that. They ar eolder and need less, so if they want more, then they need to save fro it.

The best way is to think like we are two hundred years in the past - in a sense, you have an expectation of having your house, and the food you can afford, and the medical care you are able to get. Sounds harsh, but the fact is that we are going to get there anyways due to taxing, spending and the system that it all pays for is being maxed out and no new funds can be generated in any sum large enough to support the current system ad infinitum.

Why is the state/federal government in the pension business anyways? They need to provide fo rthe safety and security of the country, provide a monetary system, legislative process, and only provide things that are of value to the country that private industry cannot provide. People of today expect the rainbow pot of gold, when maybe their lifestyle kept them from saving fo rit and paying for it themselves. Now they are like the grasshopper and the ant story, and just want society to give them the things they feel they deserve.

I believe the german government could give incentives to people who have kids if there is an imbalance in birth, but to give out so much money, and take/redistribute money from others to pay for these expensive and expansive bottomless programs, the german public cannot continue to support that ideology.

STRIXY: The fact that it doesnt make sense is meaningless. It is not important. If a program will get a POL reelected, they will do and say anything, it never has to make sense or work since no one seems to look backwards and see if a POL's work and promises actually bared any fruit. They are never held accountable. So fair, or common sense will never be a consideration.
02:59 February 18, 2012 by brnskin2010
There are too many contraceptives on the market....if someone chooses not to procreate they should not be taxed because some one else choose to bring forth offspring......besides with all of the evil in the world......Hats off ...to those that choose not to procreate.....It's a blessing.....just sayn
02:58 February 19, 2012 by DavidtheNorseman
This is not a wise suggestion for several reasons:

1. It is predicated on the assumption that one's children will provide more value to the Germanic social services fund in the future than if one is child-poor or childless. The issue is too complex for good analysis. Similarly one could argue that there is a specific possibility my children will become criminals and tax me on the actuarial percentage probability x the cost of potential jail time. It is a Pre-Tax and that's bad policy.

2. Of the 14 couples we are close to 7 have no children - at least 5 because (even in some cases after very, very painful and difficult interventions) they cannot: it is also possible the remaining 2 are embarrassed and their claims to not wanting any are less than 100% honest. To further penalize them would be morally wrong. Not to mention that they are all dual-income families where both parties are working full time - increasing their tax rates already.

Barrenness is a terrible hurt for most couples afflicted this way. To add to that pain is really reprehensible.

On a black irony note, as the EU gains ascendency such a policy would mean that many, many Euros would flow from Germany to places in Europe where the birthrates are higher....Ireland will be very happy :-)
03:08 February 19, 2012 by DOZ
Thank the Spirits, Putin is rebuilding Russia, because the German thinking is going to destroy Europe.
11:00 February 19, 2012 by michelbisson
Well besides the complications generated by the different individual situations, lets face it. A one percent tax on a 3000 € Income would actually amount to 30 €. Nothing to write home about really, IF it was really used to secure better social services or old age care. But the problem I have is that his extra money in the government's hands would most likely be used for something else like saving the banks or armements. In this case even if the amount of extra tax woul be quite small, I'm opposed to it until I can see a guarantee that this money would really be spent for it's legitimate purpose.
19:00 February 19, 2012 by Whipmanager
michelbisson: I dont think you really get any of this. 30 Euros to you seems like a minr sum if the society benefits from it. It isnt just 30 euros. Why can't you see that they already take a huge part of your money in taxes already. So they get about 40% plus another 1 %. THen you have to pay more taxes on top of everything on GAS, things you purchase (21% VAT). When is it enough? Teh Average German already pays about 28% taxes on thier income. Up to 45%. So, if you are in teh 45% already, and have to pay the VAT on things, then pay another 1%, when is it enough? When will you be happy to make society better while keeping yourself from having money you earned to do with what you want?

People should pay their own way. Stop taking and resdistributing money from the average german to give it to people who don't earn their own, but could? You have over 1.2 Million job openings in Germany according to an article in this news outlet. Why not fill those, add in the 28% from them and be done with giving more of your money to a government that only wants more and more. They see your bank conto as their private reserves. When is enough enough?

Dont any of you reading this get it and care? Do you realize that if you had another 2000 Euros in your pocket you could go on that vacation, or buy that well needed repair for the car, or house, or save fro soemthing else? And when you spend it, it goes to buy services, and those people providing the services have more jobs, and spend more and teh economy needs to produce more goods, and that makes more jobs, and more tax money is paid. It works, the money you give to Government is taken away from teh economy and it disappears. It produces a small amount of wages, to over paid government workers, but it doesnt make anyone else better off who then return the money back into the economy. It is lost.
16:54 February 22, 2012 by offpiste
Denial is not just a river in Africa you know....people in germany need to get real...this debate is useful for highlightng the demographic timebomb in germany...and also useful to read the venomous arguments of spineless childless spinsters, playboys and other assorted social misfits..

of course this tax arrangement wont happen, and certainly not under Merkel's watch, as overambitious, overachiving strivers like her are part of the problem...

ultimately, it is just going to be about greater tax credits for familes, and greater childrens allowance payments etc...but regardsless, whatever rock is lifted its always interesting to see what kind of blind, self-centred invertibrates come crawling out....

01:03 February 23, 2012 by qzyr2j
I so enjoy reading such intellectual comments as "venomous arguments of spineless childless spinsters, playboys and other assorted social misfits.." Please who is actually an idiot here or what? There are many people with no children who cannot have any or who had children and they passed away. What would you require of them? A sign stating I am not childless by choice it is because .... I have heard many Germans bemoan the fact that they work long hours and hard jobs and yet they know people who live OK without having to work. You would need to write such a convoluted tax code for this tax it would certainly help the tax prepares make money. I have no children because I cannot, yet I pay taxes toward schools and kindergeld etc. If this law passes do I still have to pay? Let us not try to pass a law based on if you have children or not. It is not the governments job to control procreation.
20:39 February 23, 2012 by Whipmanager
It is probably not the government's role to control pro-creation, however, if they are not concerned about new german's being born, soon there may be no germany. those left behind will not have retirement, or services, as no one will be working and paying taxes. The Government does have a very legitimate cause to think about birth levels. They must provide for the defense of and repair and operation of their country. If there are no citizens being born, germany will cease to be germany and will, Like california where I live, become the land of another culture that could care less about American culture (YES WE HAVE CULTURE, and not in a petri dish) or customs and such.

All Good German's should worry about your birth rate, but worry, and punish are two different things. Cut programs that give free anything forever.
09:22 March 7, 2012 by Yah right

Shut the fukk up, you hooker lover .

Who gives a ratsass what you think?
07:09 March 15, 2012 by HerLinder

You are an angry old man, you are obsessed with military, and you appear to have no concern for those who legitimately need someone to help them. I have been to your California and believe that the culture there is fine. It appears to be very American. Perhaps you miss the old days and are unable to adjust to change? Or, perhaps, if you are a soldier you think that you have invested more than the citizens who brought change, thus you express your disdain for them?

You, my dear American, should think about joining an old man's group where you can vent these ideas in an arena where others like you partake?
21:49 April 23, 2012 by raandy
Whipmanager why do you put this crap out there so everyone knows what a fool you are? Have some personell pride.
21:31 August 20, 2012 by PeaceNLI
Disgusting is the only way to describe this article!

So, since 2004 there has been a childless tax? And that is not enough?

I have news for those ignorant German ministers: Childfree and childless people pay way more in taxes than childed people. They don't use the public schools, the free lunches, and any other social service that has to do with children, yet they pay for all those services through a higher tax rate. In effect, it is the childfree and childless who are funding children. People with children get tax credits, deductions, etc.. that others don't get. Taxing them even more is discrimination, plain and simple.

You cannot force children on people that don't want them. I am childfree. You cannot force me to make babies. I have rights as a human being; I'm not a walking baby oven.

Germany is not Romania. Remember Nicolae Ceaușescu? Is this what Germany's ministers eventually want?

Or maybe we should just send Nick Santorum to Germany. He's not wanted here.
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