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Namibian skulls' return prompt new demands

The Local · 6 Oct 2011, 06:40

Published: 06 Oct 2011 06:40 GMT+02:00

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German forces took the skulls from the tens of thousands left dead during an anti-colonial uprising by the once-mighty Herero and Nama people from 1904 1908.

They were used for discredited "scientific" experiments to prove the racial superiority of white Europeans, but then disappeared into the archives of German institutions, where a journalist discovered them three years ago.

"German scientists dissected their skulls in laboratories, emptied their brains and dyed them with all kinds of colourations to prove their racist and fascist ideology – that the black man's intellectual capacity is inferior to that of a Caucasian," said Herero chief Alfons Maharero.

"The return of the skulls serves as a strong evidence that Namibia has a case to demand restorative justice for the genocide committed by Germany during its colonial rule," he said.

"Our ancestors were treated with total contempt and were shown no respect, treated like chimpanzees in laboratories," Maharero said.

He spoke at a state memorial at the Heroes' Acre shrine to liberation war dead, outside the capital Windhoek.

Namibian President Hifikepunye Pohamba decried the colonial-era abuses, but did not mention reparations when he addressed the 1,000 mourners.

"German imperial troops committed horrendous atrocities," against Namibians, he said.

"Through their unselfish sacrifices, our ancestors laid a strong foundation for the modern liberation struggle," leading to independence from South Africa in 1990.

"Their spirits were never broken and while their mortal remains were removed from Namibia amidst the ruins of war, they returned now to an independent, peaceful and stable Namibia," Pohamba added.

Story continues below…

German ambassador Egon Kochanke said the return of the skulls, "reminds us of a dark chapter in history, which still causes tremendous grief. Allow me to mourn with you and to bow my head in deep regret."

Germany has ruled out reparation and always maintained that its €600 million in development aid since Namibia's independence was "for the benefit of all Namibians."


The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

08:35 October 6, 2011 by Englishted
€600 is enough .

What I want to know is how will Hamlet be performed in Germany now one of the props is gone?.
11:15 October 6, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
Nothing short of complete and total removal of all Europeans from Namibia and the rest of the continent of Africa for that matter, can even begin to address the wrongs and injustice of the past whose effects reverberate to this day its disgusting sickness of inhumanity!
11:57 October 6, 2011 by rutledm
Great idea Hannibal! Pull all the whities out and we can sit back and take bets on which country will go up in flames next. Smashing!
12:09 October 6, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
rutledm, your fantasy is reflective of the very sickness which led to the barbaric invasion of the continent by non-African peoples. Thanks for validating my assertion.
13:00 October 6, 2011 by TheCrownPrince
For all the wrong things Europeans have done in Africa, without them the population there still would live in caves and holes (as some do up to now).
13:33 October 6, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
Englishted, rutledm, c.p. all of have made disparaging negative comments on this article. Your jokes and historical lies I'm sure serve you well among your ilk. Obviously you all belong to the mis-educated mass.
13:39 October 6, 2011 by TheCrownPrince
Hannibal-Barca, are you a troll or mentally distressed?
14:13 October 6, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
C.P. your resorting to childish name calling is again reflective of your ignorant near barbaric state. I have as much right as you or anyone else to comment on these articles as I deem fit. Because you and your peers are at dis-ease with my comments and against accepting the truth of African Sovereignty you wish to call names and try to make medical observations for which you have no qualifications. Why don't you C.P. stop "trolling" on this thread spreading your lies (see comment #5), why don't you stop revealing your mental dis-ease with African Sovereignty?
14:40 October 6, 2011 by LecteurX
Hannibal-Barca, you need to chill a little bit. Why do you want to remove all Europeans from Africa? Would you then advocate the removal of all Africans from Europe after this first step is "successfully" completed? This is ludicrous and indeed dangerous. Why should the 10,000 or so French expats doing business in Senegal or the thousands of aid workers and volunteers in the Congo or Uganda or whatever be removed? They would swiflty be replaced by Chinese or Lebanese businessmen (if you deem Lebanese people fit to stay by your dubious criteria) with hardly philantropic intentions anyway. This is the real world. Plus, I didn't see any meanness in Englishted's comment, mostly an attempt at humour.

@ TheCrownPrince, yeah right. Holes and caves indeed. Just because in your Euro-centric (or white-centric, or whatever) environment, you never bothered to read about the ancient African history, does not mean there were no cities or civilizations on this continent before the Europeans arrived... Of course the Europeans enjoyed technological superiority (and still have it, btw), which helped them subjugate the continent, but the Africans at the very least knew how to build houses and magnificent cities when Germany was still inhabited by barbaric pagans dwelling in foggy forests. I will put 2 links here for you (can't put more because then The Local rejects the comment), as I assume that you spoke merely out of ignorance rather than outright contempt for Africans. Of course then, if you persist in saying what you say about holes and caves, I will know that you're unapologetic about colonialism.


15:00 October 6, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
LecteurX, no need for me to chill because I always remain cooler than a Polar Bear's toe nails. Nevertheless, I find your comments to be only a more intelligent version of your peers.
15:17 October 6, 2011 by TheCrownPrince
Well, I have made my comment neither out of ignorance nor of contempt for Africans, but because I wanted to polemize a little bit. Of course I am aware of the fact that there have been some civilizations on the African continent, but ­ to put it this way ­ the music played (and plays) elsewhere. Maybe it's the climate, maybe it's the ressources, I don't know, but in my opinion the whole of Africa would not even possess one single steam engine today if the Europeans had not set their foot on that continent. And I don't connect the slightest moral judgement with this statement, for me this is simply a fact. By the way, the same "euro-centric" observation applies to Australia or South/North-America (more or less), so Africa should not feel too badly about it.
15:25 October 6, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, however, no one is entitled to their own set of facts as the later are based in objective reality. The ignorance of history much less English grammar of some the commentators is the only humor to be found on this thread.
16:13 October 6, 2011 by LecteurX
@ TheCrownPrince - thanks for clarifying. Sad that you choose to "polemize" by propagating well-known stereotypes and lies that caused much more suffering than laughter in the past centuries, but well, no hard feelings I'd say (I leave these to you-know-who). At the end of the day, I'm sure "Africa" doesn't "feel to badly" about your observations, indeed it couldn't care less.

Regarding the rest of the world, you need to visit Central America and see the stunning monuments and cities they built there on high top of mountains or in the middle of sweltering jungles 2,000 years ago with extremely advanced knowledge of physics and astronomy. I'm saying it because I was there and it's truly breathtaking. Sure, the Aztecs probably wouldn't probably have found out about the steam engine nevertheless if they had had a chance to develop their civilization until now, but the music was played pretty much there before the Spaniards took over. At the end of the day, this is pointless conjecture anyway.

@ Hannibal-Barca, yes, I am so utterly delighted by your response that my comments are "only a bit more intelligent" than those of "my peers" [w-t-f]. Obviously, you are the Sage of this thread, the one wise man with the power of discerning good and evil, the sole judge of "intelligence" or "humour" here. I feel I'm playing way above my league here so I'll go away and let the grown-ups do the talking without me from now.

Bye! (and don't forget to chill)
16:13 October 6, 2011 by jbaker
These skulls must be cleaned and sterilised so as not to release any horrific pathogens that could be released in the African air. An hour or so in the creamatorium should clense them fully and then what remains can be returned safely.

It should have rotted away Eons ago along with every other dead thing on this planet.
18:51 October 6, 2011 by trevzns

For all the wrong things Europeans have done in Africa, without them the population there still would live in caves and holes (as some do up to now).

@ TheCrownPrince

I don't know, but in my opinion the whole of Africa would not even possess one single steam engine today if the Europeans had not set their foot on that continent.

Dear @TheCrownPrince and like minded peoples,

Without getting into a long His-story debate regarding the continents of Europe vs. Africa. Long before the Greek and the Roman Empires for thousands of years Africa had gone through many Great dynasties.

When Africa was old, tired and nearing its end, Europe and Europeans had no script, no organized civilization in comparisons to Africa.

Without knowledge of European math, science and workers, Africans built the great monuments throughout Africa that still exist today. European Bible slaves were not the skilled craftsmen and Artist, the workers graves and homes have been excavated. As it is today, as it was many of thousands of years ago, Europeans have a serious problem with extreme sunshine.

Before the arrival of the Roman Empire, not to be confused with the Holy Roman Empire of Germany, it was the Romans who provided the Latin alphabet to Central and Northern Europe. The Greeks got the alphabet from the ancient civilization in what is now Palestine, Lebanon and Jordan. The next logical question is where did that civilization get the script?

Back to more recent and relevant history, the emancipation and education of the European continent and its peoples.

During the 1400s the European continent was emerging from the dark ages with very few universities and even fewer public libraries. The common way of life in Europe was, ignorance, poverty, poor education, no eduction for the poor, disease and Barbarism.

Around 1492 was the end of the last African Empire to occupy and rule in Europe. During this same period of time, the criminal Christopher Columbus was lost and discovered the Bahamas.

You asked a very good question @TheCrownPrince, what if the Europeans had not set their foot on that continent?

By the way, where do Europeans come from?
21:38 October 6, 2011 by TheCrownPrince
@trevzns - I don't see the point in going back to Adam and Eve. Fact is: the modern world has its foundation in Europe. Just take a look at a map of the world in 1900 or ask yourself why japanese and mexican businessmen wear suits and tie and no tribal attire from the Congo. And I say it again: I don't judge that, it's just a simple fact. What I judge though is that despite of billions of development aid most african countries are still some kind of gargantuan self-service-stores for the "elites" there, while the rest of the people stay in poverty, illiterateness and lethargy and nothing, NOTHING ever happens. Africa is completely and utterly left behind.
21:40 October 6, 2011 by ROCKYF
See there you go , talking crap when you don't know the facts Hannibal-barca the whites didn't invade anyone back then the Africans rounded up there own to be sold into slavery , check your facts !!!! As far as I'm concerned take em all back !!!!
21:57 October 6, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
Again the last two comments are another example of unapologetic ignorance of objective History and near illiterate use of English grammar.

C.P. "Adam and Eve" are fictitious characters with no relevance to African religions or History. Saying the modern world has its foundation in Europe is no better than saying today has its foundation in yesterday when anyone can always ask what came before yesterday? Your rant is utterly senseless.

Rockyf, I don't have time to give you a obviously needed history lesson. Your childish grammar is revealing enough of your ignorance.
01:40 October 7, 2011 by trevzns

Adam and Eve? 1492 was 519 years ago?

Many of the other European Biblical stores originated from ancient African Egyptian folklore and religious tradition.

As for the European religions, there is no physical evidence, except the tails of violence, Slavery, murders, Land Annexation, rapes, genocide and revenge from generation to generation.

The European religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are a collections of African folklore and ancient Egyptian religious stories.

As in The U.S., Europe, Eastern Europe, North Africa, (the Arabs are Europeans) and in the Middle East, in South Africa, Central and South East Asia, many individuals are suffering the same denial and reality, Africans and African descendants are at the beginning and center of their culture civilizations.

As it has been mentioned @TheCrownPrince, chill and get over it.
02:15 October 7, 2011 by rutledm
Last word, like the first from Englishted....600 million is enough.
04:16 October 7, 2011 by Snapply

derp derp
11:25 October 7, 2011 by brunonamibia2011
its a sad story its a sad history to make matters worse. about 4000 farms in namibia are still owned by white germans. while the black people still suffer. many of these farms are not being used for production but lie iddle while their owners are in Germany. you will find that one person owns about five farms. the good thing about we Namibians is that we are very humble people and we love peace. im just thinking if it were other african countries how the situation would have been. i thus urge people to start realising Namibia is a peacefull democratic country that has gone through alot and continues to thrive against all odds. currently Namibia has discovered 16bilion barrels of oil and is set to start production by 2015. this will make it one of the biggest oil producers in africa. aftr libya and Algeria. on top of that Namibia is blessed with Diamonds,Gold,Beef,fish, wild animals and perfect wether. may the lord bless Namibia
12:01 October 7, 2011 by mkatjiua
The German government ought to be VERY SHAMEFUL of its "dark history" in the present-day Namibia. Germany is THE ONLY country in the world that has officially declared an extermination of another nation from the face of the earth, and when that did not materialize General von Trotha, with the blessing of the Kaiser Wilhelm II, declared to force everything that is Herero outside the borders of the then German South West Africa. And if that was not enough, he ordered the poisoning of water fountains with ANTHRAX. The place Ozombu zo Vindimba in the Kalahari Desert is a testimony to this barbaric inhumane state-sanctioned acts. Directly translated Ozombu zo Vindimba means ¦quot;Fountains of Anthrax¦quot;, and it was on the banks of these fountains that General Lothar von Trotha read out the infamous Extermination Order.

Today it is NOT enough for Germany to regret her dark history and to hide behind her contribution towards Namibia's economic development in general. However, what the German government should realise is that sooner or later it WILL HAVE to pay REPARATION for GENOCIDE committed against the people of Namibia.
13:06 October 7, 2011 by michael4096
Like so many threads here, the question is: when does the recent past end and history begin? My feeling is that once essentially all those involved are dead there is very little to be done about the past beyond learning from it.

Maybe there is an argument that the Germans are today somewhat richer than they would be and Namibians somewhat poorer. However, that is being addressed by the €600m and one can argue about the amount. To demand reparation beyond this is simply punative.

Why should the Germans of today be punished for the 'sins of the father'?
14:27 October 7, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
If the "wealth of the father" can be passed on to his heirs, and that wealth was stolen, then yes the Europeans of today should give up all African derived wealth and make ammends for past loss with interest!
17:48 October 7, 2011 by Der Grenadier aus Aachen
I don't know why people assume the colonies were a profitable enterprise for Germany. They weren't. They were a huge loss. It was really just done to match Britain.

Also, this happened 100 years ago. I feel absolutely no sense of responsibility for it. Even if I did, I would say that 600 million EUR is plenty, and that not every modern problem in Africa is Europe's fault. You had a century to recover from Germany's influence in Africa. If you haven't recovered by now, it's certainly no longer as a consequence of anything Germany did.

As such, quite frankly, I don't care about these claims, and if it's up to me, won't have another Euro paid out.
18:03 October 7, 2011 by Englishted

Having read your racist ,rude and generally stupid comments.

I have come to understand life is to short to enter into a debate with somebody who dislikes the European heritage he uses to attack others.

I think if Africa wants to stand alone so be it ,however please be good enough to show us one country on the Continent that has been ,is or looks likely to be a successful by any criterion of your choosing in the near future.


Would South America have progressed much more without the wheel ?.

It also was not such a bad attempt at humour was it ?.

If from the comments on here this is the attitude of the receivers of the €600 million then I will change my first comment to :

€600 is to much.
18:36 October 7, 2011 by arbeitsbiene3
@ Der Grenadier aus Aachen

I don't know why people assume the colonies were a profitable enterprise for Germany. They weren't. They were a huge loss. It was really just done to match Britain.

Where do you find your information colonization was not profitable for some German citizens or the government of Germany 100 years ago?
18:53 October 7, 2011 by Motorhead
Geez, more demands for reparations. I say NO. Give it a rest once and for all!
20:00 October 7, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

The first racist, rude and definitely stupid attempt at humour was made by none other than you.

Your racist attempt to try and diminish the suffering of the indigenous Namibians by referencing a "play" completely irrelevant to the suffering of the aforementioned and to further place a trivial monetary sum on the theft of life and sovereignty of a formerly free people shows that you proudly defend the so called sins of your damned father!

I stand by my assertion that not one damned German should be in any former German colony on the African continent. And yes I extend that to all Europeans to include Arabs and Turks.

So to whomever wishes to make the next Euro-centric revisionist History statement, be my guest. Just know that fewer people are naive enough to accept such blatant lies any longer.
20:55 October 7, 2011 by raandy
Germany has ruled out reparation and always maintained that its €600 million in development aid since Namibia's independence was "for the benefit of all Namibians." are you serious ,, 660 millon buys you exception for the horror you committed on a colony population. That is a good buy a real deal a bargin congratulations for duping the folks
21:34 October 7, 2011 by TheCrownPrince
@Hannibal-Barca: your life must be hard here among all those cruel, evil and racist Europeans. Therefore I suggest you leave Germany (or Europe) at once - in your own interest - and move to your idyllic african paradise. And if you are there already: all the better! As for your proposal that no "damned Germans" should be left in Namibia, maybe we can make a deal and exchange them with the Namibians in Germany, who surely want to go home as fast as possible. Wouldn't that be great? Then you and your pals are finally able to show us how things really should be done in Africa, to build up a model state we all must envy and to create a country where milk and honey flow, free from all subversive and destructive european influences. There you go (and soon, please).
21:43 October 7, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

Sure I will leave Germany as soon as I've robbed you of life and liberty! Then I will give your remaining family €0,60 for damages. Seems fair and legal too, right?
01:36 October 8, 2011 by wenddiver
What made Namibia vulnerable to Colonization/expliotation in the first place? Could it be a society that had no connections with the outside world and fell behind? This seems to be the case across Africa and the Middle-East. Need I point out that the US, Canada, Brazil, Argentina, Australia and New Zealand were all colonies that made good and became sucessful countries. They didn't do it by running everybody who lived in their country for several hundred years out of their country and establishing a single tribe/race. Africa chases off it's best and it's brightest and then goes begging instead of putting them to work building the new country. Colonialism isn't as much of a problem as is the ethnic cleansing and Marxist economics that accompanied most of Africas independence, along with the native corruption. Running everybody out of the Country that is not of one or two tribes seems to be repeating the mistakes that prevented Namibia from prospering. So go ahead and chase off your ethnic German Farmers and see where it gets you. They will be welcome in the US, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil and Argetina as the economic engines they are.
07:42 October 8, 2011 by Englishted

I think if Africa wants to stand alone so be it ,however please be good enough to show us one country on the Continent that has been ,is or looks likely to be a successful by any criterion of your choosing in the near future.

Any answer yet?

P.S. "one damned German " sounds racist to me .
13:16 October 8, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

You do realize that the history of Western Europe is one of near constant fratricidal warfare even after the treaty of Westphalia up until the end of WWII?

You do realize of course that with the fall of the Roman empire Western Europe regressed intellectually, culturally and economically?

Certainly you are aware that with the onset of the Moorish invasion of Iberia in the 8th C. that it was Islam that provided the intellectual rebirth of Spain and Western Europe after hundreds of years of the so called Dark Ages? Why is it that Western Europe was unable to experience an endemic intellectual rebirth?

I hope you don't honestly believe that Africa's political ills of the past century are a sole result of African incompetence sans Western e.g. C.I.A., M.I.6, Western European Governments official, non-official policy? As if the C.I.A. today isn't involved in various colour and spring revolutions.

Personally I'm not in the least surprised by the Euro-Centric revisionist history comments found not only in this thread, however, those which permeate the very fabric of modern western thought. Nevertheless, the West in general must come to accept that they are not nor were they ever masters of the universe.

Its time for the world to turn away from the bully/beggar thy neighbor mentality in which the lives of untold billions have been destroyed. If all peoples can't learn to live within their own respective means without the exploitation of other peoples and the environment then Man's propagation on this planet will naturally be culled.
13:50 October 8, 2011 by arbeitsbiene3
With regard to African culture. Europeans around the world and specifically Germans in Germany are very good at forgetting and remembering what to forget.

Western civilization begins with the ancient Greek and Roman Empires.

From Western civilization there have been many positive contributions to our world. However, what impact on Africa and Africans?

Germany: The Holy Roman Empire. Modern day Germans selectively covering up the contributions Africans made to the Empire. Downplaying the Africans that are honored as saints in Germany history.

Germany: The first European explorers to arrive in Africa and China pretending to be missionaries and scientists.

Germany: The first to build a slave fortress in West Africa, which was later sold to their first cousins the Dutch.

Germany-Europe: Arabs and Jews:

How wonderful, Christianity, Islam and Judaism working together hand in hand to enslave Africans.

Mostly young children and teenagers, total number arrived at destination over 12 million.

The total number of Africans dead and dumped in the oceans is conveniently unknown during the 54,000 voyages made to sell slaves?

(Slavery was a business and there were ships manifests of the African cargo?)

Germany/Sweden: The invention of the Caucasian Race by a Swedish botanist and classification of the Caucasians race by Johann Friedrich Blumenbach.

Germany: Conducting experiments on the brains of dead Africans to prove European superiority. (I hope the results of their findings of European superiority and intelligence will soon be published?)

Germany: Two worlds wars. World war I, over 35 million killed. World war II, over 60 million killed with ethnic genocide.

This was not an African issue or problem. This is also why today there are apologies and reparations being paid to some Europeans.
14:23 October 8, 2011 by trevzns
To @wenddiver and all like minded individuals,

Where do I start and how do I reply to the statements made by @wenddiver?

When Europeans, Arabs and Turks arrived in Africa, Africa was old, tired and broken. If Africans had fallen behind and had no connections with the known outside world of the Europeans, my question is, when will Europeans mature as human beings?

I understand there is too much physical evidence for most Europeans and Asians to comprehend and feel good about themselves and their own past backward cultural histories.

The physical evidence of the tens of thousands of years of African achievements as an advance ancient civilization is available in museums around the world.

There is math, art, science, religion and medicine.

Let us not forget the contributions made by African descendants to our modern world.

The world was considered flat to the intelligent European world. During this same period of time there was contact and trade between Africans and the Americas. The physical evidence of African trade in the Americas was provided and recorded in the records of the European criminal explore Christopher Columbus, after his arrival in the Americas.

Before the Greeks and Romans, where is the evidence of a European script?

Where in Europe or anywhere else in the world is there physical advance of an advanced European city or civilization?

For many individuals of European decadence, Ignorance is bliss ­ Lack of knowledge results in happiness.

Some Europeans are incorrigible…. a culture of actors, thieves, revisionists, missionaries and savages.

The concept that Black people need Europeans or Asians for their intelligence and technology for survival is ridiculous.

The arrogance, self-righteousness and contempt people have for African culture and African descendants speaks for its self.
17:52 October 8, 2011 by Englishted

Answer the question which one?

The C.I.A. wanting to overthrow the dictator in Egypt ,oh yes .
23:24 October 8, 2011 by wenddiver
@trevzn-"The concept that Black people need Europeans or Asians for their intelligence and technology for survival is ridiculous."

That is all the more damning. If you have the intelligence to feed yourselves , not to do it is crimminal negligence.

I think we are in agreement here, if the rest of the World stopped propping up the Marxist failures in Africa, the people might pull themselves up by their own boot straps and start feeding their own families. God knows there are more than a few former European Colonies doing just that in the Americas and Pacific. It isn't going to be easy, you might have to borrow a few ideas from neighbors who are asian, white or something in between, but it can be done.

I don't think the current model of running everybody out of Africa who isn't Black is going to work, besides being very racist it is throwing away a lot of talent, that Africa needs. A safe and prosperuse Africa for er minorities is a safe and prosperous Africa for all.
00:51 October 9, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

you continue your euro-centric absurd viewpoint and you are completely wrong to think for one second that we are in agreement. The west, i.e., western europe and their american heirs have only robbed Africa for the past 500 years. The Americas would have been a failed venture within 50 years if not for the toil of the African. So no these former european colonies as you call them did not pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Instead they did what europeans know best, spread disease to the natives, lie to, steal from and murder the rest sparing not woman or child.

As far as Africa not feeding herself, again remove the Western influence in Government which still dominates Africa despite the so called end of the colonial period, stop stealing African wealth for western enrichment and the continent will be prosperous by African standards, which are the only relevant standards for Africa, within 100 years.

@englishted, Ted really to be English, your English is terrible! An ignoramous such as yourself should not assume the audacity to even address me.
01:19 October 9, 2011 by TheCrownPrince
@Hannibal-Barca - I repeat my suggestion that you are just a troll. Such huge amount of ignorance surely is deliberate just for purposes of provocation; therefore one should not waste time with you any longer. Good luck to Africa if people like you are in charge there (well, obviously they are already).
09:16 October 9, 2011 by Englishted

And to end .

Thank you for the cartoon series ,I loved the Flintstones and many others.
11:06 October 9, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
@c.p. et englishted

Let this serve as a warning to you and others like you than you can no longer make negative attacks against Africans as a people or Africa as a place and expect not to have that same negativity come back upon you exponentially.

From now on when you tell your lies about an imaginary European superiority do so in private where your ignorance won't be revealed.

You englishted need only thank yourself for the Flintstones as it only had European caricatures in it! Again though I'm not surprised that you make another completely senseless statement!

In conclusion don't make any negative comments on this forum against Africa again!
14:05 October 9, 2011 by wenddiver
@HANNIBAL-BARCA- OK, so you don't want Euro-Centric standards applied to yourselves, I can understand that, but I think asking the rest of the world to put up with your starving children on our TV setsfor a hundred years wjile the African version of sucess kicks in, is a bit much.

Instead of accusing Europeans and Americans of stealing the wealth of your continent, wouldn't it be better to fiqure out why you are not sucessfully competing in the World market? Rhe truth is other than some occassional coffee beans I don'y buy much from Africa, which realistically is probably more of Africa's problem than too much attention ftom the West.

I make money on the Stock Market almost every day and to do that I have to listen to intelligent people all over the World, I don't consider that being Euro-centric, I consider that being a player in a World economy. I do not have the luxory of selling to or buying from only people from my own ethnic group, that is reality.

You are right that a few rich men in the cotton, rice and sugar cane trade did make money off of the slavery of Africans, but even in the deep south these millionaires were never 10% of the population. America was built by Family farmers mostly from Europe, a lot like the people the racists and Marxists ran out of Africa.
14:39 October 9, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

I've made no false accusations. The West and increasingly Asia continue to steal the wealth of Africa. This is a well documented fact which is not open to any debate!

That you are daytrader, position trader, trend follower, whatever, this only further substantiates your interested entrenchment in the Euro-Centric Imperialist paradigm!

Your myopic orientation prohibits you from considering much less accepting that there is a evil force at work governing world markets that can only profit from the exploitation of the masses to the benefit of a small so called elite. The stock market is lie and may experience a sharp 20% devaluation within any day now. The fiat banking system is a lie and it's final day of reckoning is fast approaching.

Your argument is based upon an fallacy and it follows that everything you espouse further is only a continuation of your asinine world view. You are a fascist! The sooner the world is free of your type of ideology the better off the planet will be!
19:33 October 9, 2011 by Englishted

I hope they send your skull back soon as it is empty and of no use to anyone or thing.

Hey guess what ,you speak ,read,and write in English so we always have the last word.
21:06 October 9, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

I see you talk very bold behind the protection of your computer. Your skull is already of no use, except that of a dung holder.

Go and watch your cartoon network little boy.
12:06 October 10, 2011 by wenddiver
@Hanna-Barberra- Have you ever thought the problem with Africa might be all you guys who think the sugestion of stop being racists, stop murdering your neighbors with AK-47s and get a job is fascism or a capitalist plot.

You have met the enemy and he is you.
13:30 October 10, 2011 by trevzns

How many different realities do you visit before you write your nonsense?

What is the name of the University you successfully graduated to obtain your missionary and propaganda Ph-Ds?
13:54 October 10, 2011 by LecteurX
Wow, this is one angry thread. I'm glad I left it and went on with life during the weekend :-)

@ Englishted #27

It was a decent attempt at humour. I like the English way of approaching even the most serious matters with a tongue-in-cheek comment, although I don't necessarily double up with laughter every time :-)

On Central America (I was in Central America, not in South America), we'll never know how far they "might have been" in the last 5 centuries without the arrival of the Europeans and the introduction of the wheel (along with diseases that quite literally decimated the populations, incidentally), and I for one find it quite pointless to go further into all the conjecturing. It's not just the wheel that they lacked: they didn't have big domesticated animals like horses and oxen and stuff. For all their skills at levelling mountaintops to build magnificent cities millenia ago, they only started working with metal tools and gold ornaments only around AD 1000... It was plainly a totally different set of civilisations, that reached a certain level of development with the resources available to them. So, really, there's not much to say except that these civilisations had accumulated quite an impressive amount of knowledge and science and achieved a lot, isolated as they were from the Old World. That's all.

As for the rest of the discussion... wow, I'd rather not be dragged into that :-)
15:35 October 10, 2011 by Englishted

You raise good points about civilisations developing differently as you say we will never know but it is harmless to surmise.

There is only one angry man writing here and he has no sense of humour he would say that we Europeans stole it from his ancestors.


"Go and watch your cartoon network little boy."

Watch you don't cut yourself on that razor sharp wit ( I am being sarcastic just so you can grasp the idea)
18:40 October 10, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
@engshyted and muffdiver

Its amazing that two semi-literate donkeys such as yourselves try so hard to defend your ignorant cause. I really think that;

Mama yako alikuwa orgy ya pamoja na farasi na dumbasses yako walizaliwa kama matokeo!

I'm sure you both understand!
20:06 October 10, 2011 by Englishted

Swahili that explains a lot ,when it develops it will join the third world .

I was born in a city so it is unlikely that my mother had much to do with livestock we had a few slaves sorry servants for that kind of work.
21:03 October 10, 2011 by trevzns
Hey folks,

And to the guardians of the many past and present Great Empires,

I know we all have our extremely different views and opinions regarding the world we live in, past and present.

Happy Columbus Day!

Five hundred and nineteen years later of still plundering and pretending.

I am not sure about other parts of the Enlightened European world, but in the U.S., those other Europeans still recognize and celebrate the criminal Christopher Columbus day?

I will assume for his contributions to European history that the world was not flat?
21:10 October 10, 2011 by Englishted

I don't think he made the mainland and he never even knew about North America or the U.S.A and Canada.

So what has he to do with this thread?
22:09 October 10, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

your orginal comment, at least the latter half had nothing to do with the subject of the article. Your further comments have nothing to do with reality! Really you and your boyfriend C.P. and the rest of your merry band are a bunch of homos.
08:09 October 11, 2011 by wenddiver
@Hannibal-barca- How's that Swahili space program coming??? Could you list all the great inventions Society needs to thank Africa for, since they became independent, I seem to have misplaced my list.

@Trevzns- Do you ever offer actual debate or repudiation or are juvnile personal attacks the limit of your accomplishments. Nice to now the crazy men with AK-47s in Africa have at least one supporter. How does Marx's historical dialectic tie in to selling a nude native in a blond ladies wig, whacked out of his skull on narcotics an AK-47 again? Your political ilk has made Liberia, Zimbabwe and dozens of other places real workers paradices.
12:26 October 11, 2011 by trevzns

What personal attacks? No need for me to get personal, your thought process at times is equal to that of a rodent on a treadmill.

With limit to my accomplishments what is there for me to debate with you and your in-grouping mentality?

Do you actual believe the horse manure you write and post?

Oh, I forgot. It would be more helpful for you, if I connect the dots and draw pictures with color markers for you on this thread….ok, Horse Manure, also contains other crap and you are full of feces.
16:55 October 11, 2011 by arbeitsbiene3
Wow, @wenddiver,

Were your statements to @HANNIBAL-BARCA a joke?

@wenddiver, How's that Swahili space program coming??? Could you list all the great inventions Society needs to thank Africa for, since they became independent, I seem to have misplaced my list.

Here are a few inventions and contributions to add to your misplaced list of African great inventions to society…no hurry, whenever you find that misplaced list of yours.

Africans and African descendents contributions to Western civilization:

Space program, science, mathematics, technology and medicine.

Dr. Phillip Emeagwall ­ Africa

Computer Science and technology

Dr. Mark Dean ­ U.S.


Dr. Thomas Mensah - U.S.


James McLurkin - U.S.


Dr. Robert G Bryant ­ U.S.

Science - NASA

Dr. Charles R Drew ­ U.S.


Garrett Augustus Morgen ­ U.S.

Inventor - Gas Mask and the modern traffic signal.

Alice H. Parker - U.S.

Inventor ­ new improved gas heating furnace.

Henrietta Bradberry ­ U. S.

Housewife Inventor ­ Torpedo discharger means to fire torpedoes under water.

Marjorie S. Joyner ­ U.S.

Permanent Wave Design, used in hair salons.

Mary B. Kenner ­ U.S.

Inventor - Sanitary Belt with and without moisture proof pocket, Toilet Tissue Holder. (very useful products for this thread at times.)

This is only a small list of great inventions we have to thank Africa for.

No, its not Black History Month. :-)
19:39 October 11, 2011 by Englishted

"This is only a small list of great inventions we have to thank Africa for. "

You mean :This is a great list of the small inventions we have to thank Africa for.

You also forgot Hanna-Barbera great cartoons ,and sharp wit .

p.s. If you are black does that automatically mean you are African?in the same way as all whites are European?
20:07 October 11, 2011 by trevzns
@ Englishted

So, I think I get it? There are rules on this thread and when I write something and not connect the dots, you do not understand.

Ok, in future, I will do my best to connect the dots, draw better Pictures and improve my English writing skills.
00:32 October 12, 2011 by arbeitsbiene3
@ Englishted

This is where the limit to my achievements comes into play.

Present day classification of race is a very complex and confusing thing for me. The experts in this area are the Germans and Americans.

A question was asked regarding Africas great contributions to society since the white man freed their slaves, and servants, or whatever people from African culture are called today? The Information to this question was provided.

What does it matter, if I am Black, white, Brown, European, Asian or African?

Help me out, what is your understanding and classification or definition for European, Asian and African?
06:49 October 12, 2011 by Englishted

I would love to help you out however I suffer the same problem as yourself I don't know or care about the classifications and you are also correct as I agree it does not matter the colour of a persons skin.

It started off about the supposed need to play money for deeds done in the past wrong those deeds were I don't agree with the payment.

But this made a certain person very angry and so it went on.


Yes you understand what you must do now go and practice and next time you may be ready, we will see.
12:46 October 12, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
@eatshyted, colon princess. muffdiver et al.

None of you have shown the ability to express yourselves without clear grammatical fault in your own native language i.e. English. Your knowledge of objective History suffers to a far greater extent than that your English prowess.

There is no amount of money that can placate the tremendous loss suffered by Africans. Because one doesn't agree with demands from one segment of the African population is no excuse to make public insensitive, insulting and disparaging remarks against a people who have already needlessly suffered so much.

As far as the issue of "race" is concerned, there are groups of races as political construct only, however, not as a scientific fact. Modern man has an exclusive origin which lies in East Africa. To the extent that one thinks there is scientific basis for race is the limit of ones education.
20:15 October 12, 2011 by Englishted

If you read the thread of this from the start you will find you in fact started all the bad feelings and rudeness that you have carried on through out.

You called for

"Nothing short of complete and total removal of all Europeans from Namibia and the rest of the continent of Africa for that matter"

Nothing short of racist ,but also hypercritical as you seek to remain amongst people who you detest ,but are good enough when your choice to return to Africa is not taken .
22:01 October 12, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
@eatshyted & co.

Your unqualified opinion and racist remark opened this thread. I wonder just how ignorant you really are...

really just do like your name indicates; eat shyt ted and then...
06:56 October 13, 2011 by Englishted
Go to comment 1.

See if you can find anything racist in it.

thank you .

Now look at the comment above and please be the judge yourselves(but not if you are European because you are all racists ).

If anyone can tell me what "eat shyt ted and then.."

means I would be thankful as well.
08:41 October 13, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
@eatshyted & co.

Your original comment,

"€600 is enough .

What I want to know is how will Hamlet be performed in Germany now one of the props is gone?. "

Again I reiterate and with absolute conviction that no fiat monetary figure can placate the suffering endured in Namibia by the Hereros! They fought without fear of death or worry over their technological inferiority concerning methods of how to kill your fellow man! They lost their lives and their sovereignty, however, they at least deserve their dignity!

Yet you eatshyted, you pompous little bytch, would deem yourself some type Secretary Treasurer of the Bundesbank in determining the value of untold loss of life and liberty. What degrees or titles have you earned little cartoon boy that would give you such gall?

To further insult the memory of the Noble Hereros, you would reference the pictured skull ostensibly belonging to a member of the aforementioned, (PBUH), and rank it as a mere prop in a homosexual Shakespearean play! You blatantly insulted the memory of a noble African warrior. This alone reveals you as the weakest of cowards, unworthy of tasting the heel of my boot.

Yet in your continued Euro-Centric arrogance you feign innocence as if unaware that your little humourless joke was not a deep insult to any self-respecting African or decent human being!
09:30 October 13, 2011 by TheCrownPrince
@Hannibal-Barca: does the expression "inferiority complex" tell you something?
09:46 October 13, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
@c.p. et al.

Indeed perhaps as it has been theorized European males suffer from an "inferiority complex" due to among other things their generally small penis. This perhaps is revealed in the theft of Teken from Ta-Merry to be found in many Western cities or cheap imitations thereof has found in Washington D.C.

You all continue to try to defend your indefensible actions, such arrogance can not go unpunished indefinitely.

You all should be silent and give to deep contemplation of your ignorance.
18:21 October 13, 2011 by Englishted

I note your increasingly rabid references to homosexuality and genitalia, I think you "protest too much."

"Again I reiterate and with absolute conviction that no fiat Again I reiterate and with absolute conviction that no fiat monetary figure can placate the suffering endured in Namibia by the Hereros can placate the suffering endured in Namibia by the Hereros"

Then we agree no flat monetary figure is the right amount.

I do offer my congratulations to you on acquiring boots now all you need is the knowledge of how to tie them and you will be o.k.
20:22 October 13, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

o.k. little kid now go watch your cartoon network and next time do your homework before talking to adults.
06:37 October 15, 2011 by Englishted
That skull has still more brain inside than the commenter above.
16:50 October 17, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

Your Mother & Wife sucked my brains dry before I could finish writing. In other words they gave excellent head or skull if you will. If you still don't know what that means then you really are dumber than a bag of rocks.
16:57 October 21, 2011 by Englishted

Yep but I'm white and European 2-0
11:38 October 25, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

you are as ignorant as you are impotent!
13:16 October 26, 2011 by Englishted

So I'm not ignorant at all then.

14:42 October 26, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

You are as proved by your asinine comments cognitively impotent, ignorant and a puzzy azz coward!
23:26 October 27, 2011 by Englishted

Why not take those empty worthless skull and the one on top of your body and return them to where the belong which we both agree is not here.
12:27 October 28, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

You can't even correctly compose a basic sentence in simple English yet you continue to address me your clear superior. You and I are in agreement about nothing! You are nothing but a diseased racist ignorant pig.
22:50 October 28, 2011 by Englishted

So I take it you don't like where you came from either ?.

It is full of undesirables ,well all but one .

You know the one with the big mouth and small brain (if one at all)

but makes good cartoons.
11:15 October 29, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

You are one seriously ignorant, cognitively impotent, cowardly azz bytch!
06:24 October 30, 2011 by Englishted

Why cowardly? if my country had your problems I would be there helping.

But your country was and is so backwards we Brits didn't want it in the Empire.

W.T.F. is azz bytch! is not any English I know .
10:09 October 31, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

I've already explained your cowardly ignorance to those who will understand and there is no need to restate those obvious facts.

You like to play games and dance around the real issues only because the objective truth isn't comfortable to your psyche.

I'm most amused by your comments about your Brits not wanting my country in your short lived empire. Everybody knows the U.S.A. kicked the British azz in our war for independence, everybody but your dumb azz! Clearly you have no idea who I am or what I do. If you had the balls to talk such non-sense to my face it would definitely result in your being dealt a harsh azz beating!

You are such an ignorant puzzy azz phuck!
22:25 November 2, 2011 by Englishted

So the blacks won "our war for independence" along with the French and Dutch black navies .

"Clearly you have no idea who I am or what I do."

1 : A nobody.

2: Talks cr#'p in incomprehensible English
10:46 November 3, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

Little cartoon boy, you are completely hopeless and beyond redemption. You deserve your fate.
12:25 November 3, 2011 by Englishted

My fate is to live in a country not having to worry about old bones ,and yours is what?
15:14 November 3, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

Little cartoon boy, its time for you to grow up.
17:47 November 3, 2011 by Englishted

Just to repeat sad and unoriginal comments ,what a useless illegal you are.
18:37 November 3, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

Your ignorance is what is sad and your racist remarks which started this thread are nothing if not unoriginal diatribe espoused by worthless trash for brains sub-humans such as yourself.

Calling me an "illegal" only further strengthens all of my previous statements against you. What a poor wimpy little kid you are showing no fear behind your computer screen but unable to walk up to one real man and repeat your racist slander face to face!

Its past your bedtime little boy!
20:09 November 3, 2011 by Englishted

So you are not illegal then are you a asylum seeker? or a economic refugee ?,

if not then why are you where you are here and not in the place you started by saying how wonderful was ?.

For the record I am not racist ,and also against nazism.

But people who harp back to deeds done 100 years ago only to try to get money do got me angry.

I live in Germany and have gone to concentration or death camps if you wish,

these sad events must be put to rest .

I have fought against nazism when they have tried to march in England and in Germany .

I have also dated a black South African Muslim from Cape Town so stick that in your peace pipe and smoke it.
11:38 November 4, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA

Oh wow you dated a Muslima from S.A. Matters not when your statements clearly show you are confident in your imagined superiority of "White Europeans" over all else.

So you got angry at an article in the local and think you have a license to make racially insensitive remarks and that no thinking person should take offense because in your myopic mind "white makes right".

Here is another example of your incoherence in trying to express yourself;

"if not then why are you where you are here and not in the place you started by saying how wonderful was ?."

Maybe now if your not too angry you can the structural and grammatical fault of this particular statement.

Your testosterone driven impulsive statements have led you down the wrong path. Perhaps you genuinely believe your original statement was benign.

"Nothing in all the World is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" ­ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. 1963.
19:17 November 15, 2011 by Englishted
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. 1963.

And look what happened to him.
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