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Preserving our open society after Oslo

The Local · 26 Jul 2011, 17:47

Published: 26 Jul 2011 17:47 GMT+02:00

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The man is young, blond and has blue eyes. He loves classical music and literature. He describes himself as a Christian. And he wants to save Europe from Marxism, Islamization, multiculturalism and foreign influences.

This is a description that would presumably fit tens of thousands of young Europeans, mainly men, who either belong to far-right groups or sympathize with them. But Anders Behring Breivik went further. He detonated a car bomb with 500 kilos of explosives in the centre of Oslo and went on a shooting rampage on a nearby holiday island, murdering almost 80 people.

Those Breivik shot were almost all youths, and were victims only because they accepted an invitation to a summer camp hosted by the centre-left Labour Party. Breivik chose to target them because he thought the party embodied policies delivering Norway to Marxists and Islamists.

Groups that hold such extremist views don't just exist in Norway – there are similar ones in Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium and France. And there are comparable political movements in Germany too. Xenophobia is on the rise in Europe, a continent which has always been marked by cultural diversity in spite of long centuries of being unified by Christianity, and whose influence has affected the world from the Americas all the way to Africa and Asia.

And now that globalization is returning to the continent that transformed the world, many people just can't cope, and feel their identities are being betrayed. They blame politicians who they believe are failing to protect them from foreign influence, and failing to preserve old traditions.

They want their countries to insulate themselves from change, they want them to shut everything out that they consider bad, and if that isn't possible, they want to destroy multiculturalism, Marxism and Islamism – everything they consider foreign.

But they overlook the fact that Europe always suffered when it reacted like that – Hitler's Germany, Franco's Spain, Mussolini's Italy and Stalin's Russia shut themselves into a madness of race or class supremacy and exterminated people who thought differently or were just different.

And they also forget that Europe prospered and achieved international importance when it overcame boundaries and embraced open societies. Whenever Europe divided itself into groups to be preserved and groups to be destroyed, then it became the continent of inhumanity. But whenever it celebrated freedom and democracy, it became a model and a yardstick for others to measure themselves by.

That is why the response to terrorism should never be separation and isolation, but a cosmopolitan outlook and the "compassion" former West German Chancellor Willy Brandt once spoke of – a man, incidentally, whose values were influenced by his years in exile in Norway during the Nazi era.

What the Anders Behring Breiviks of this world want is just the opposite – they want to retreat into a fantasy that never existed, and which never can exist in a borderless 21st century. This is an age in which catastrophes and crises constantly remind us that the actions taken by national governments can quickly affect the entire planet.

Story continues below…

Jens Stoltenberg, prime minister of the Scandinavian country so sorely tested by these terrorist attacks, says the response to such murder will be even more democracy, even more openness, but never naiveté. That last point is a warning that rings out beyond Norway's borders to all those who want to abuse the hospitality of our open societies.

But it was perhaps naive to assume that everyone would respect the rules of democracy and openness. The threat to both doesn't always come from outside. Sometimes the enemy of freedom is blonde, blue-eyed, loves classical music and literature, and calls himself a Christian.

This commentary was published with the kind permission of Berlin newspaper Der Tagesspiegel, where it originally appeared in German. Translation by The Local.

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

18:20 July 26, 2011 by derExDeutsche
A terrible tragedy, no doubt.

But, being anti-marxist and anti-Islam is now to 'want the opposite of freedom'? funny, I always believed those cultures with an emphasis on Marxism or Islam to be the least 'free'.

the guy is a psychopath. leave it at that. don't worry, the left has them, too.
18:31 July 26, 2011 by Englishted
"And he wants to save Europe from Marxism, Islamization, multiculturalism and foreign influences.

This is a description that would presumably fit tens of thousands of young Europeans."

I think you are incorrect (I'm not right wing) the number of people who hold these ideas is not restricted to neo-nazis , millions of people fear for the future and are not allowed to speak as they are automatically branded racist .

The mainstream parties are not addressing the problem which is driving the rise of the right ,a little give and take would calm things but it seams to the general public that it is take and take.
19:09 July 26, 2011 by So36
So you're asking to be given just a little bit of intolerance then?
19:14 July 26, 2011 by aletheia93
(1) Why foreign influences are supposed to be dangerous?

(2) Some versions of Islam are incompatible with democracy? To the same extent as some version of Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism or whatever. It is not a distinctive feature of Islam. Wilders is a complete moron who would fail the first exam at BA level in religious studies

(3) multicultarism is not a homogenic doctrine, the same as Marxism and perhaps ideologies on the right.

(4) West enjoys wealth due to technological sophistication and production. West needs consumers and a work-force. Means of transportation are far more efficient than it used to be. This explains why migration accelerates. West can not eat cake and have it too. Needs to be open world-wide in order to keep its machinery running.

(5) The best way to stop mass migration is to end wars, allow the Third world to develop and enjoy a standard of living and education. Stop with idiotic biological racism which is quite widespread still.

(6) Situation is very complex and people minds should not be captured by a complete morons like Wilders.

(7) I'm in favor of multiculturalism which unites people under the law of democratic secular law. Call a crime a crime not a cultural difference.

(8) Fear can be irrational and might have no real groundings. I do not deny that there tendencies which are fearful like radical Islam radical right and soviet marxism. But what you are so concerned about future? Evolution of species is something none can stop, excluding extermination.
08:02 July 27, 2011 by delvek
@ Englishted

Agree with you 100%. I am personally trying to change that by comfortable voicing my dislikes. Its not racist to dislike a segment of the population unless there is a compenent of hatred. I can dislike old people without being a racist. I can dislike Russians without being a racist. I can surely dislike Muslims without being a racist.

I see more and more people voicing this same sentiment and until we can shake this pathetic grip globalization has on us how can we truly be free. Is hiding ones feelings free?
09:50 July 27, 2011 by So36
@delvek: So you're not racist, just a bigot?
09:53 July 27, 2011 by freechoice
will someone introduce a patriot act to curb the freedom of individuals after this one mad incident? are we fixing the problem of abandon kids without the love of their parents? have we shown love to such people so that they will not commit such acts of atrocities? if we can't do any of this, history will repeat itself.
10:25 July 27, 2011 by PawD
I can speak only of my own experience as an expat in Germany... especially after I have interacted with many 'brown' people who have been born and brought up in Germany... and obviously speak German as good as their mother tongue... Germany might be friendly with foreigners (unlike the UK) but when it comes to integration, they just don't consider you to be a German unless you have a white skin... this a hard fact!
13:15 July 27, 2011 by michael4096

"The mainstream parties are not addressing the problem..."

And, what problem is that? Is it that there is a threat? Or, that people perceive a threat?

If there is a threat, where is it? I see no threat and I live among immigrants every day. There are no more newpaper or other reports about threating incidents with immigrants than one would expect. People don't cross the road because immigrants are likely to accost them. While crime figures are slightly skewed towards immigrants, when corrected for socio-economics they are actually better than for, say, african-americans in the US or west-indians in the UK and few feel those groups a threat to society as a whole.

So, if it is just a perception problem, what should the government do about it? Why should a chunk of society be penalised because another chunk think irrationally?
14:42 July 27, 2011 by Al uk
A summer camp to politically indoctrinate young teens. Hasn't this been tried before.
15:59 July 27, 2011 by lunchbreak
@ michael4096

People don't cross the road because immigrants are likely to accost them? You obviously have never walked thru some of the riskier sections of my german city.
17:31 July 27, 2011 by michael4096
bike-chain wielding banditos from out of town do not count as immigrants
18:02 July 27, 2011 by ChrisRea
While Norwegians' choice for an open society is great, there are others that see Nazism everywhere. Glenn Beck, the American conservative radio and television host, compared the camp on the island to "Hitler Youth". And when people protested, he said that any impediment on his freedom to do so, or criticism of his statements, show the "Nazification" of America. Incredible! Apparently his time with infamous Foxnews left deep marks.
18:32 July 27, 2011 by michael4096
When I was very, very young I called someone a Barstard - it was the most horrible thing I could think of. My mother overheard and rather calmly told me what the word meant - I was appalled! That wasn't what I meant at all - I wanted 'Real, Real Nasty'.

I get the feeling that many people do the same with 'liberal' and 'nazi' and 'politically correct' and so on. It makes them feel better but to those listening it's barely English.
00:36 July 28, 2011 by jomamas
Being against immigration has nothing to do with being 'anti freedom'.

Clearly, this site is rung by ideological Marxists.

Dear Local.de editors: soon you will have your wish of multiculturalism, and Sweden will dissapear under the masses of immigrants there will be nothing left.

You think I am joking?

I am from Mississauga, Canada. When I grew up it was about 98% people of European ethnicity. Today, it is more than 70% immigrant.

How on earth does a new immigrant, coming to a town where 70% of the people are foreign - 'become Canadian'?

SAY GOODBYE TO SWEDEN. IN 70 YEARS IT WILL NOT EXIST, rather, it will exist as a legal entity that has nothing to do with it's past.
13:38 July 28, 2011 by lunchbreak
@ michael4096

we're not speaking of bike-chain wielding banditos rather of Auslanders in immigrant areas who think that state support isn't enough money to live on. Not to long ago I had to fight off 2 immigrant teenagers who tried to back me into an alley. I was very lucky to get by them.
16:09 July 28, 2011 by catjones
If Norway had border inspections....oops, sorry, wrong solution.

If Norway had tougher immigration laws...oops, sorry, wrong solution.

If Norway had better integration policies...oops, sorry, wrong solution.

If Norway had a Red Button to press when someone acted suspicious..oops, sorry, wrong solution.

If Norway blurred the Google-maps....oops, sorry, wrong solution.

If Norway had a Thilo Sarrazin......
16:43 July 28, 2011 by So36
@jomamas - You need to get over your white self. Either that or leave Canada to its original inhabitants.
17:26 July 28, 2011 by lunchbreak
Exactly jomamas, the desire for cheap labor will turn things around entirely in the next generations. and its not only Sweden that will cease to exist as a cultural entity. The whole world will blur in a struggle with the chinese to maintain high profit margins for european and US elites. The upper insulated classes will sacrifice any national or cultural interest to ensure their standard of living.
17:32 July 28, 2011 by harcourt
Most of you are banging on about how bad it is for your countries to have immigrants (foreigners) So what is your solution, draconian immigration laws ( remember that the economy of many countries DEPEND upon immigrants),stringent border controls, or build a wall around your country ? And what about the immigrants already in your country one "solution" was tried in the 1940s but that was a bit "final" Why not try to assimilate them until they become an accepted part of the community, this of course takes time and tolerance unfortunately some countries have a "Blitzkrieg " mentality
18:14 July 28, 2011 by lunchbreak
Hi harcourt

A lot of immigrants around here make very little effort to assimilate.

If economies depend on a never ending supply of cheap labor then something is wrong. Why not try to fix our appetite for fresh victims and instead what solutions can be implemented to fix the probem?
18:20 July 28, 2011 by LiberalGuy
Lunchbreak does that include you? Do you assimilate? After all most of us on here are immigrants.
18:24 July 28, 2011 by storymann
According to the clip the German government expects there to be 104 million Muslims in Europe within the next 20 years. I sure hope they all integrate into one big happy EU, with a positive attitude and a bit of tolerance and understanding we can make it happen(:
03:34 July 29, 2011 by lunchbreak
104 million! Really! Thats a lot of people. Poor old europe will struggle under the weight of a mostly uneducated people and folk uninterested in leaving their primitive culture and ideology behind. The ruling elite's dream come true, an EU dumbed down into quiescence into the next century.
10:41 July 29, 2011 by freechoice
why don't you guy accept that it's just a simple problem of teen neglect by his father when he needed him most at the age of 15? instead of lofty ideals that Islam is going to take over Europe?
15:51 July 29, 2011 by harcourt

You've hit the nail on the head, so often these days parents do not realise the responsiblity they've taken on when they procreate. It's so easy to screw children up for the rest of their lives by emotional neglect. This normally happens when parents selfishly do not want to give up their pre-birth live-style once children come along.
16:13 July 29, 2011 by Stuart1977
Christian EDL terrorist and Zionist.

Remind me again why Europe has immigration, nothing to do with 'civilised' Europeans blowing themselves up to the tune of 70m in two world wars plus providing the excuse for importing labour?
18:14 July 29, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
19:10 July 29, 2011 by Jollyjack
The evil barbaric acts that Anders Behring Breivik has carried out have had the affect of stifffling all legitimate discussion about Islam and the efforts of Islamic fundalmentalist activists to introduce Sharia law into Europe. So what would it mean?

• Re-introduction of capital punishment by beheading. I¦#39;ve seen film of the Taliban teaching a 12 year old boy to decapitate a man with a kitchen knife and finally holding his head aloft. Some people might deserve to die but sadly miscarriages of justice and mistakes do occur. Nobody deserves to die in such circumstances.

• Death penalty for apostates.

• Death penalty, by stoning, for women committing adultery, but not for men.

• Polygamy but not to the woman¦#39;s advantage. A man can have several wives but not the other way around. He can divorce her on a whim leaving her homeless and penniless; in penury.

• Compulsory circumcision for all males.

• Amputation of limbs for theft.

• Arranged marriages. They have to be arranged because men and women are not permitted to socialise together. Depending on how strict the interpretation of Sharia is the man may not have even seen his bride¦#39;s face before, let alone admired her figure and god (sorry Allah) forbid, her legs.

• Destruction of economies due to banks not being allowed to charge interest.

• Halal slaughter of animals.

• Murder of Jews.

I could go on but is there any need?
19:13 July 29, 2011 by harcourt
It's over 24 hrs since I asked the question as to what solution anybody, who doesn't like the status quo, has. Comment #20. Many of you moan and moan about the set-up and wish it were different, often with great hostility. Well have you thought up any practical and sensible ideas in the last ten years !
19:35 July 29, 2011 by LiberalGuy
Harcourt. Exactly! If you've ever get into a discussion with a member of the far right, you realise once they get past their catch phrases and sound bites they have absolutely no ideas or solutions to any of the problems facing society. You're worried about Muslims? Ok kick them out. Then what? ummm..... You know one in five people is a muslim, are you saying we segregate 1/5 of the world? ummm....... You don't like socialist policies and libreal ideals? Then why are you in Europe? ummm...... Especially when your from a different country. ummmm.....
20:27 July 29, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
07:35 July 30, 2011 by harcourt

These are not solutions. - 1st para. is what MIGHT happen in Norway at the next elections plus what you have read might have happened last year in Europe (249 Attempted explosions) 2nd para. moaning about the situation and having a go at "lefties" plus "too many muslims in Europe and we don't want to import any more". Fine so how would you go about that. A common European policy legislated in Brussels !! ? It won't happen. As LiberalGuy said (#31) the far right have no positive ideas only negativity. It is a cancer which will poison the European body if we are not very careful!!
09:50 July 30, 2011 by Dom har glömt
I think if this so called nature of selection goes forward. Eventhough some might dislike. I could end up like this in

hundreds of Years. Everyone could eventualy look the same or

very identicle, brown of skin, but the white wont be intirely

lost because of Extracted DNA strands. These people will probably extract some of these race strands and preserve some

sort of identity, along with pictures, dolls, smart robots and

etc... Athough there will still be wars and etc... Why? Because of borders and some gready that want to take over and

has power. NWO is for sure a possiblity but then again,

anythig is possible. This will be it I think if Christ dont

come back soon or sometime in the future. Consider the black

hole that is heading towards us also.
11:27 July 30, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
11:54 July 30, 2011 by harcourt
Dom har glömt #34

This sounds like a re-statement of the Third Reichs racial purity policy with a few updates !!
12:06 July 30, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
12:10 July 30, 2011 by Craig76
That's right, pull out the rascism card every time someone voices an opinion that differs with yours.

I just hope that when the whole of Europe has majority Muslim population that all Christians, Jews, Sikhs and Hindus are afforded the same liberties as we are expected to afford them.

They don't want to integrate, they want us out.
12:27 July 30, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
13:15 July 30, 2011 by LiberalGuy
Makivali so you are suggesting that we should get rid of all the socialist parties in Europe. And leave what? Just the right? I guess that leaves democracy a casulty. Whether you like it or not. Socialist parties are predominate in Europe because the people chose them through the democratic process. Secondly when you pigeon hole people they way you just have, it shows how simple minded you are. It's not a race card, it's a stupidity card. I got married in Denmark to my beautiful blonde, blue eyed wife, and I found Denmark to be an exceptional country of freedom and liberties. Maybe you should do some reading on the things you profess to have knowledge on moron.
14:07 July 30, 2011 by Craig76
Liberal Guy wrote, "so you are suggesting that we should get rid of all the socialist parties in Europe. And leave what? Just the right? I guess that leaves democracy a casulty.."

You are correct of course, democracy would become a casualty. No-one would argue that. So why is it acceptable that that socialists can call for a complete ban on right wing parties, thereby removing a choice from the democratic process?
14:27 July 30, 2011 by eudes marinho
Anders Brevik not a Christian: First I want to say that the killer, Brevik, not a Christian. In the Bible Jesus said that whoever loves God, hear God's voice. Jesus said not to kill, not whoring and love your enemies. What did Anders? Anders murdered, lied, planned evil, whoring and did not hear what the Bible teaches. Anders is a Norwegian citizen who disagrees with the immigration policy of his country and made ​​the biggest mistake of his life. Brevik is not a Christian.

The world press prefers to call Christianity a religion of evil because only a madman who calls himself a Christian without really analyzing whether it is Christian.

Jesus said that many were outside the kingdom of Jesus and say, "Lord, Lord" not done many things in his name?? But Jesus says, not all who say "Lord, Lord" do the will of my father and not enter into my kingdom. Jesus said that whoever loves God makes his will. The will of God comes down to: Love God above all and love your neighbor as yourself.

Think about it: Anders Brevik heard the voice of God? He obeyed God?

I thought the attack was an action of the Moslems cause the obvious. And I think there should be laws against this Muslim invasion in Europe. For the high number of immigrants and high birth rate they will be mostly in Europe soon.

It is notorious that Islam encourages them to hate and kill Christians in their countries. This is shown in the media every day who does not see it?

It's funny that Muslims come to Europe and want to behave like owners of everything, want to impose their laws and ideas, want to be treated more privileges than the natives. And they're succeeding.

I'm not racist / Nazi / xenophobic or anything like that but I see that the current situation will worsen if the number of Muslims in Europe continues to grow.

I am in Latin America and here we have religious freedom, but thank God, Muslims are not representative. They are violent and are fierce in converting people just to get political power. In fact, they want to dominate the world as Hitler also wanted. Already infiltrated in Europe and gradually dominate the local media.

It seems that the European public does not realize where they are most dominated by the violence. Just count how many attacks occur daily in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Jordan and so on.

You Europeans are prepared to continue receiving the Muslims? They will continue stocking their bombs in their gardens. When they can force you to convert to Islam they will do it. You will have to choose to pray toward Mecca or die. Think about it. Think very reason and logic.
14:50 July 30, 2011 by lunchbreak
Well said eudes marinho. As minorities get more power thru numbers they will have more of a say about what goes on in europe. Hoping for the best in spite of the facts is not a good strategy.
15:01 July 30, 2011 by Craig76
Doesn't really matter if someone locks the stable door now, the horse bolted a long time ago
15:43 July 30, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
15:54 July 30, 2011 by LiberalGuy
@Craig76 I'm all for democracy, not matter what the message, or whether I agree with it or not.

@eudes A couple of points.

One. I believe you too are confussing the middle east as being the face of Islam. After all only 10% of the worlds muslims live in the middle east.

Two. I shall present the following quote from the Qu'ran ''Allah does not forbid you to treat kindly and deal justly those who have neither fought you in the matter of religion, nor driven you out of your homes. Indeed Allah loves the just.'' ...( Quran 60:8)

That basically means if no one has attacked you beacuse of your religion than love them and let them live in peace. Basically oppressive regimes, or places where Mullah's weild control over the people intrept the Qu'ran to serve their own purposes of maintaining control. It's much easier for the powers that be to maintain control when they can put a face or boogeyman to their misery. The far right does it, communits do it, and religious fanatics do it. No matter what name they call God.

By the way the facts I used to support my argument took 10 seconds on Google. maybe those who disagree or want to spend their lives afraid of some imaginary boogeyman should try researching the facts. It's really not that hard.

Romans 15:7 ¦quot;Therefore, accept one another, just as Christ also accepted us to the glory of God.¦quot;
16:14 July 30, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
16:16 July 30, 2011 by LiberalGuy
No. I'm quite enjoying myself
16:21 July 30, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
16:26 July 30, 2011 by LiberalGuy
I don't know. Is a size 8 a free willy? You're quite funny. And so sharp. You should write for Leno. By the way 13.8% for the Danish people party is hardly a majority . 5 seconds on google.
16:29 July 30, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
16:31 July 30, 2011 by LiberalGuy
A witty saying proves nothing
16:33 July 30, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
16:34 July 30, 2011 by lunchbreak
I have to say you are being quite silly LiberalGuy. Google all the muslim attackers who justify their violence on their holy book. These thousands of active warriors of Islam were and are dangerous no matter what relatively benign quotes can be extracted from the Koran. There is a lot of support in the muslim world for passages in that book that are not so nearly harmless.

A lot of folks from that part of the world would like to kill us, banish us or rule us. After all we are unbelievers and envy is a powerful emotion. Why should europeans be relatively comfortable while many of the the faithful struggle? The Koran commands believers to subdue or kill non believers. And much of the islamic world takes the Koran at its word.

If its not too late to protect the future for europe from this tidal wave of primitive onslaught at least we can try to alert folks to the danger. Pretending the danger doesn't exist or is inconsequential is a disservice to your country and/or your adopted homeland.
16:43 July 30, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
16:44 July 30, 2011 by LiberalGuy
Makivali. Ditto.

Lunchbreak. I was begining to think you were ignoring me. What would you have me do? Be afriad and scared of the muslim menance? People through out the centuries have been killing in the name of religion and using it to maintain control over people. Doesn't matter if it's Christianity, Islam or what. I'm not going to be a part of that. I refuse to believe that 1.5 billion people want me dead becasue I'm a Christian, or European or what ever. I refuse to believe that there are that many evil people in the world. If you can't accept people for what they are, be it Christian, Muslim, black, white whatever, then it is you with the problem, not them. People do want to hurt us, sure. But so many, many more just want to live in peace like us. How you choose to live is up to you. How I choose is up to me. That's what freedom is
16:56 July 30, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
17:00 July 30, 2011 by LiberalGuy
Makivali. Any new material there Jack? Your act's getting a bit stale. By the way you can say 'stupid' on here without it getting censored, so you don't have to worry about spelling it differently
17:07 July 30, 2011 by harcourt
eudes marinho #42

Coming from Latin America I guess when you hear christian you automatically think Roman Catholic. As I hope you realise there are MANY forms of Christianity even amongst the Catholic branch. The same as there are many forms of Islam. Me - I'm an atheist so I say a plague on ALL your Medieval fairy tales !!
17:09 July 30, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
17:23 July 30, 2011 by LiberalGuy
makivali. Well I'm not offened by you, but I cannot control the powers that be. I think the best compliment I can give you is

'The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization.'

Sigmund Freud

By the way. LibrealGAY?? Come on. Your better than that.
19:17 July 30, 2011 by Matt in Florida
Just because the terrorist claims to be a Christian does not make him so? Did Jesus the Christ kill, attack, or murder anyone? NO The teaching of Christ is love, to be a Christian is to be Christ like in your words and actions. This man is not following Christ. He is ill in the mind, just as anyone who purposely hurts another.
19:24 July 30, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
21:26 July 30, 2011 by DrGideonPolya
Missing from the Appenzeller commentary (and comments thereon) is the Elephant in the Room reality that the neo-Nazi , anti-Muslim, mass murderer Breiviks was also a pro-Zionist, pro-Israel, racist Zionist mass murderer. In common with some leading Israeli racist Zionists, Breiviks wants expulsion of Muslims from Palestine (as well as from Europe, China, Thailand, Philippines, India).

Also missing from this commentary - and racist Zionist-beholden Mainstream media reportage - is the Elephant in the Room reality that several days before the Norway Massacre the Young Labor Norwegians on the Norwegian island and their leader had called for stronger Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against racist Zionist-run Apartheid Israel.

The European far-right have evolved into 2 groups, (1) the "traditional" racist and Islamophobic Nazis and neo-Nazis who are also anti-Jewish and (2) genocidal, racist neo-Nazis who are also pro-Zionists.

Breivik (according to his manifesto) belongs to the pro-Zionist neo-Nazi category group and is a pro-Zionist Islamophobe and racist similar to the Apartheid Israel-supported Apartheid South Africans.

It is scary that Zionist-beholden mainstream media won't report the reality that mass murderer Breivik was a pro-Zionist extremist and that the 66 Young Labor Norwegians he murdered were strongly opposed to racist Zionism (for honest analysis see US Professor Vijay Prashad, "Palestine's Norwegians" in Counterpunch).
22:05 July 30, 2011 by harcourt
I take it you don't like Israel !!
22:57 July 30, 2011 by lunchbreak
'a pro-Zionist, pro-Israel, racist Zionist mass murderer'! Dr. GideonPolya clearly has no axe to grind, he simply recognizes that mainstream media has a pro-Israel,racist, Zionist, anti Palestinian, racist, Zionist, mass murdering, Zionist, racist pro-Israel, Zionist, racist, Zionist mass murdering, pro Israel, Zionist mass murdering slant.
23:23 July 30, 2011 by Ich
RUBBISH! Since when has Europe "always been marked by cultural diversity"

that wasn't circumscribed by borders? The author apparently has never made a decision in his life. Otherwise, he would know that you can't have some people with 4 wives and others limited to 1, just because. It doesn't work. Multi-culturalism has, as critics long ago predicted, degraded social cohesion and consequently paralyzed gov't. It wili lead to anarchy, if not civil war. People are notorious for not getting along. What do elitists have to offer that changes human nautre? You do what you wan ton your side of the fence, and I'll be just as free on mine. But come over here and start bossing me around, and I will not apologize for what happens.
07:01 July 31, 2011 by harcourt
I'll just re-state my comment which I wrote about the article here on The Local about the debate on surveillance.

The topic of this article was " Helping the German police by reporting extremist views on web forums" After viewing comments here at The Local for the past six months or so, may I suggest that the police take a look themselves from time to time at the utterances here on this website !!
09:03 July 31, 2011 by ChrisRea
As all the long threads of comments, this one has also its funny postings. People claiming that the mass murderer Breivik is not a Christian only because he is faulty of not respecting one of the ten biblical commandments. As if all Christians (including the ones posting on this thread) never break these commandments. Probably next thing we will found out is that the infamous Crusades were also not Christian.

Religion itself (or lack of it, or being against religions) is not something that determines the quality of a person. Judging people based on religion is like judging people based on the colour of their skin, their gender or sexual preferences, nationality and so on. It is pure discrimination. Real justice means to judge people based on their actions, not on what god they (don't) believe in. Breivik will be judged for what he did, not for being a Christian.
10:11 July 31, 2011 by harcourt

Again I can't but agree with you, wholeheartedly!!
13:47 July 31, 2011 by lunchbreak
'Judging people based on religion is like judging people based on the colour of their skin...'

Not quite ChrisRea. If people are free to believe in anything they want then they can be judged by what they believe in. They can smart, stupid or simple tools. Muslims are taught to believe in lots of naughty stuff like genital mutilation. Pardon us for making a judgement about people who condone that.
14:00 July 31, 2011 by makivali
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
14:56 July 31, 2011 by Craig76
So what we've got is a group of people who:

a) hate with a passion, every other person that doesn't follow their way of life or holds different beliefs and everything they stand for but justifies their hatred in the name of religion

b) are a threat that has affected our daily way of life

c) wish to dispose of our government, institution, laws, etc in favour of their own

d) have no intention of affording either their own people or anyone else the same liberties currently enjoyed by them, once they come to power

How can they have a lawful right to claim discrimination against us but not us against them? They either want equal rights or they don't.

makivali makes a good point regarding unemployment, whether they are Muslim or not. I can't speak for Germany but if I change my mind and decide to stay in the UK, I will be working until at least the age of 70 in order to support the thousands of economic migrants who chose to come to Europe to feed like parasites off decent hardworking people. I have 2 jobs totalling around 70 hours per week. One is my own business and the other is with local government. I've had my projected pension payout cut, I have to work longer before I can access it and I've had all pay rises and cost of living rises suspended for a minimum of 2 years as our spineless excuse for a government is running out of funds to support these people. The French knew exactly what they were doing by building a camp for so-called refugees, right on the doorstep of the EuroTunnel.

We have enough workshy dole-scum of our own, thank you very much and I'm sure most hard working Europeans will say the same. At what point to we say, enough is enough?
16:31 July 31, 2011 by storymann
Craig76 your correct, enough is enough when the Muslim faith outnumbers the Christen faith here in the EU but not a concern as it will take another 12 to 15 years at present incoming levels. perhaps this will stave off the labor shortages predicted by the German Gov., always a plus side to enough is enough (:

Liberal Gut,,Glad to see your still battling "The Liberal Demons,",keep up the good work as there is surely a place in Heaven for you.
19:12 July 31, 2011 by harcourt
Religion is a funny thing. Many of the Nordic countries are very apprehensive about the EU becoming a Catholic Club. That's one reason, funnily enough, that Norway hasn't signed up to it!!
23:15 July 31, 2011 by ChrisRea
I think Craig76, at post #73, does a very good job describing the Christian extremists like Breivik. All a) to d) points fit them (also extremists of other religions).

@ lunchbreak #71

You try to spread the idea that female genital mutilation (FGM) is a Muslim teaching. Actually the truth is that this is opposed by the Muslim faith. The Qur'an underlines the idea of the husband giving pleasure to his wife during sex. Mutilated genitalia reduces or even eliminates a women's pleasure during the act. Islamic leaders also publicly stated that FGM has no basis in Islamic law.

Coming back to the idea of judging based on belief or actions. I don't think that a Christian that did not do anything against women should be considered guilty only because his religion promotes misogyny ("Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church. . . ."; "In pain shall you bring forth children, woman, and you shall turn to your husband and he shall rule over you. And do you not know that you are Eve? God¦#39;s sentence hangs still over all your sex and His punishment weighs down upon you. You are the devil¦#39;s gateway").
01:53 August 1, 2011 by lunchbreak
The Shafi'i school of Islamic jurisprudence holds female genital mutilation to be obligatory.Muhammad himself did not condemn it: "A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband." - Sunan Abu Dawud 41.5251

Therefore, as long as practitioners do not consider their version "severe," or as long as they can imagine a way it could be worse, they have an excuse to continue mutilating girls.
09:29 August 1, 2011 by ChrisRea
To rely on a limited controversial jurisprudence which is rejected by the Islamic leaders is like saying that Christians promote castration (based on the long time practices of the Christian Church bearing the pope's benediction). Both practices are barbaric rituals of a rather small community of Christians and, respectively, Muslims, without support in the Bible and Qur'an, and they are both rejected by the majority of believers of the respective faith.
09:50 August 1, 2011 by LiberalGuy
lunchbreak. It is a barbaric ritual, but the ritual itself goes back 4000-5000 years. Thousands of years before Christianity and Islam. So it's hardly a muslim thing.
12:47 August 1, 2011 by Craig76
@ storyman. 12-15 years is nothing. Kids being born to immigrants now will have vote in 18 years time so you've got to take into account that it's not just immigration thats the problem but also the differences in the birth rate. White Europeans will become a minority within 20 years and our governments are doing nothing about it. If anything, they're helping them.

@ Chris Rea. Brevik does not represent the views of Christians or any other faith. Extremists like him represent a minute proportion of any religion other than those following Islam.
13:20 August 1, 2011 by ChrisRea
@ Craig76

Would you care to substantiate with real figures your bold statement about extremists and religions? Or is it only propaganda?
13:24 August 1, 2011 by lunchbreak
@ LiberalGuy

Is there any other religion besides islam in germany that recommends female mutilation? Why should germany allow immigrants of such an antithetical religion into a modern society? And what other problems might these barbarians bring with them. Answer: many.
13:28 August 1, 2011 by LiberalGuy
Lunchbreak, I know this ritual is actually practiced amoung Lebanese Christians, and Ultra Orthdox Jews. I'm not defending it, but you can't pinpoint it as being an example of barbaric islam.
11:50 August 2, 2011 by lunchbreak
LiberalGuy, I'd don't know how many Lebanese Christians and ultra Orthdox Jews practice female mutilation in germany but I know that we shouldn't be importing people who do it. And as I point out above Muhammad himself said the practice was OK.

The folks in charge here must feel germany should go to any lengths to provide itself with cheap labor. I wouldn't be surprised if the chancellor made a confidential offer to import Afghan convicts. Wealth is created by some of the population pimping off the rest.
15:13 August 2, 2011 by LiberalGuy
Lunchbreak. I agree with you on the last point. The point I made about the lebanese christinas and ulta othdox jews, is that some (I stress that point) still parctice female circumcision. How many practice in Germany I don't know, but I do know they are some who still do practice it in Israel and Lebanon (amoung other places). The point I made above, is that not all Muslims, or even many still practice it, and that it's not just confined to Islam. You seem hell bent of trying to find every negative assumption out there about Islam, then find evidence (no matter how flakey) to support your assumptions. You know there are just as many barbaric things in the bible as there are in the Qu'ran. You should judge a man on his deeds, not his faith.
16:07 August 2, 2011 by lunchbreak
OK, lets judge people by their deeds.

People like Naser Abdo, the would-be second Fort Hood jihad mass murderer; or Khalid Aldawsari, the would-be jihad mass murderer in Lubbock, Texas; or Muhammad Hussain, the would-be jihad bomber in Baltimore; or Mohamed Mohamud, the would-be jihad bomber in Portland; or Nidal Hasan, the successful Fort Hood jihad mass-murderer; or Faisal Shahzad, the would-be Times Square jihad mass-murderer; or Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, the Arkansas military recruiting station jihad murderer; or Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the would-be Christmas airplane jihad bomber; or so many other jihad murderers and would-be murderers.

Enough or should I go on?

And on and on...
16:44 August 2, 2011 by harcourt
lunchbreak: you seem to have a fixation !
17:18 August 2, 2011 by ChrisRea
I am glad that lunchbreak finally got the point. Yes, the ones that you mentioned are to be blamed/convicted, not all the Muslims. In the same list you should add Christian mass murderers like Breivik and also the mass murderers of other faiths. And then make sure there is no line separating them, because they are much closer in spirit to each other, then to the rest of believers. Bravo lunchbreak, you made it!
00:53 August 3, 2011 by lunchbreak
I love it when ChrisRea desperately tries to spin one of my posts in a lame attempt to make a politically correct point. For every christian attempting a religious mass murder he can name I'll mention 500 muslim jihadists . As the saying goes not all muslims are terrorists but most terrorists these days are muslim. When ChrisRea catches a bunch of Presbyterians planning to blow up a plane he should let us know.

@ harcourt

Churchill was told he had a fixation on Hitler in the thirties when almost no one took the Nazis seriously & Churchill insisted that they were indeed a serious threat. Needless to say he turned out to be right.
06:57 August 3, 2011 by harcourt

Good point, I haven't got an answer to that - at the moment.
13:19 August 3, 2011 by ChrisRea
@ lunchbreak

OK, we go one step back. At least you admitted that not all Muslims are terrorists.

You claim that most terrorists these days are Muslim. For what happens in the US, FBI would strongly disagree. Between 1980 and 2005, only 6% of the terrorist attacks were Muslim (less than, for example, those conducted by Jews). Here is the FBI statistic (including the list of the attacks): http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

What's the situation in EU? Well, only 0.4% of the terrorist attacks from 2007 to 2009 could be attributed to extremist Muslims. Here is the situation for 2009 (for earlier years you just have to change the year in the link): http://www.europol.europa.eu/publications/EU_Terrorism_Situation_and_Trend_Report_TE-SAT/TESAT2009.pdf.

I am not sure about Presbyterians, but I guess the nine members of Hutaree, calling themselves "Christian warriors", would do for the example you requested. They were indicted for planning to kill using illegal explosives and/or firearms.

I also accept your challenge. Besides the nine already mentioned, you can add for example Bruce Pierce (member of "The Order") who bombed a synagogue, Buford O. Furrow (also from "The Order") who shot many people in a Jewish day care. I stop here, even if more Christians attempted religious mass murder. So you need to come up now with a list of 5,500 jihadists. I expect real, verifiable data, just as is the one I gave you.
14:40 August 3, 2011 by lunchbreak
You're not suggesting for a moment that we should believe politically manipulated FBI stats are you? Heavens, should more people in the US become aware of the threat the government might actually have admit to the extent of it. Thats neither a muslim vote getter nor good strategy. "War is deceit" as Muhammad told us in the Koran.

I guess you forgot about the many thousands of religious muslim terrorists in the middle east us and killing each other in every imaginable way since the beginning of the century. Does that count as real and verifiable? Thought not. And you got Bruce Pierce and Buford O. Furrow, I guess you win.
17:02 August 3, 2011 by ChrisRea
Right, so now we cannot believe FBI anymore. OK. They listed the attacks they are aware of. Which one do you know of and is not on the list?

So, how many religious Muslim terrorists are in the "middle east us"? What source of information supports your point?

So yes, if we talk about facts, I "won". Actually I just proved your Islamophobic allegations wrong, I did not gain anything.
18:17 August 3, 2011 by lunchbreak
You won? Nope, sorry, thats just you spinning again. I just proved I was right.
19:57 August 3, 2011 by michael4096
The infinite rationality of ChrisRea faces the immoveable faith of a Believer (in ... whatever ...)

I expect the internet to disolve into a solution of ip-quarks in 10, 9, 8...
21:45 August 3, 2011 by lunchbreak
I would rather describe it as the extraordinary silliness of a self appointed and rather pompous liberal spin doctor vs. the reality he tries so vehemently to deny. If the Internet ultimately descends into chaos Michael4096 you will have contributed more than your share.
13:55 August 4, 2011 by yourholiness
Good on ya lunchbreak. You're surrounded by fools, phonies and posers on every side but you come out on top. I say well done!
16:12 August 4, 2011 by LecteurX
@ jomamas #15, you say:

"Soon you will have your wish of multiculturalism, and Sweden will dissapear under the masses of immigrants there will be nothing left.

I am from Mississauga, Canada. When I grew up it was about 98% people of European ethnicity. Today, it is more than 70% immigrant. How on earth does a new immigrant, coming to a town where 70% of the people are foreign - 'become Canadian'?"

Err, Jomamas, begging your pardon, in which language exactly is "Mississauga" a word? English? French maybe? No? So tell me, aren't the white folks in Canada themselves the descendants of immigrants? Preposterous. Next comment coming: "I'm from Cape Town, South Africa, and we white people are being overrun by blacks!!"

@Jollyjack #29

Ahem, here are some Muslim countries that have abolished death penalty under all circumstances, except (in some of them) for really heavy crimes such as terrorism, genocide, etc.: Turkey, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Mali, Niger, Mauritania, Senegal, Eritrea, Djibouti, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Maldives. These are countries where all your nicely cherry-picked sharia-law barbarities would therefore not be possible.

Here are all the Muslim countries where stoning to death is still allowed or still occurs: Afghanistan, Indonesia (Aceh region), Iraq, Iran, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Somalia.

There are some very backward places in the Muslim world, though not all of them are, and only a minority of Islamic countries apply Sharia law... so why would Europe be ruled by Sharia law in a near future if even the Muslim world itself is moving away from it?

"Destruction of economies due to banks not being allowed to charge interest."

Now that's interesting, probably the most original point I've come across in the islam-bashing rants. Well, it's just as poorly informed as the rest. Ever heard of islamic finance? probably not, but well it's very well there and growing fast; even European banks are now catching up. And it doesn't seem to be destroying the Gulf countries' economy. Any insight?

"Murder of Jews."

Ach, man, well... if we're gonna start with fact-free fantasies, sure sky's the limit.

"I could go on but is there any need?"

Well you could go on until you start making sense, but I don't think that would happen any time soon.
21:58 August 4, 2011 by yourholiness
The title of this piece is fairly ironic. The way to preserve an open society is to exclude those who would like to impose their religion and law on the rest of us.
11:06 August 5, 2011 by marimay
Post 100! woo hoo!
11:12 August 5, 2011 by yourholiness
You get the prize marimay. Its too bad the winning post is so boring..
12:09 August 5, 2011 by marimay
You're right. Perhaps I have integrated better than I thought? D:
23:42 August 5, 2011 by MichMash115
Comment: This has all been very entertaining - some of you obviously have very active imaginations, are a little paranoid, and possess the ability to hyperbolise and project and generalise par excellence. @ lunchbreak, Craig76, eudes et al - have you ever actually met an Islamic person? Had a conversation with one? Shared a meal, or a train trip, or a cup of coffee at your child´s kindergarten, worked with one? Read anything written by moderate Muslims (the vast majority)? I have. I have had conversations with brilliant, interesting and funny Muslim women who are not at all oppressed by their husbands, I have read books about the experiences of moderate Muslims under oppressive, extremist regimes, I have spoken to Muslim people in Germany and from Turkey, and from Iran and from African countries (some of whom were refugees from Islamic regimes and civil war) about terrorism, and those that I know condem it utterly as an act of barbarism which gives a bad name to the religion they practise every day. It is easy to conflate politics, power struggles, extremism, cultural/racial/religious differences and use them to create fear and hatred. It is easy to blame race or religion for problems that are often economic or political in nature, and that have their origins in poverty and disenfranchisement. Most of the Islamic people I know FEAR the sharia, and I even know some who have fled their home countries in order to live in the `tolerant´ west. People in the Middle East are putting their lives on the line to fight for Democracy, and many of the regimes they are fighting against are evil and NOT particularly religious, so not even the Middle East is Islamic monolith some of you make it out to be. There are evil people, regimes and ideas of all stripes, that motivate horrendous actions on big and small scales. Muslims don´t have a monopoly on violence, stupidity, ignorance and hatred, as so sadly illustrated by the events in Norway. The Muslims I know want to be left alone to practice their faith in peace and quiet. They want access to child care and high quality education for their children. A lot of them work really, really hard to provide for their families. They love their kids and their families and their friends. They grieve and fight and play and complain and celebrate and cook and clean and work and mow their lawns and read books and listen to music and go to the mosque and eat in restaurants and run businesses and, and, and. They live their lives. What is so threatening about that? Sure, they are different, but they are just people, and as wonderfully diverse in taste, humour, political and social views, needs, wants and everything else as the rest of us. There is an ugly and familiar ring to anti-Islamic diatribes. Stop demonising Muslims. Please.
14:40 August 6, 2011 by harcourt
You can see what exercises the minds and passions of the readers of The Local. 104 and counting
14:59 August 6, 2011 by yourholiness
I have met them MichMash115. A few years ago two of them tried to take my wallet.
16:09 August 6, 2011 by marimay
Okay, then it is no wonder your head is so far up your rear if those the only two you have met. ;)
17:02 August 6, 2011 by harcourt
yourcrazyness #105

And I suppose that one incident turned you against every Muslim in the world. You're sick !!
18:15 August 6, 2011 by yourholiness
@ harcourt

Thats your story not mine.
08:07 August 8, 2011 by jomamas
So36: no, I'm am not going to 'leave Canada to the natives' nor get over my 'White self'.

You blatant self hate is the root of the entire problem.

Canada - by all accounts - is a 'Western country', western values, history, culture, and people. We are happy to work with the natives to establish some kind of balance.



If Canadians want multiculturalism, then we can accept our corporate brands as substitute for culture forever.


Please - your communist experiment has failed everywhere it was tried, stop trying to voice your opinion.
09:50 August 8, 2011 by freechoice
hold your horses. May it be Arabs, Canadian, Chinese, German, Americans, British etc are all arbitary titles setup by politics and politicians! Don't get too upset over its definition or it's interpretations! we are all human beings for God sake.
11:14 August 8, 2011 by LecteurX
@ Jomamas: "stop trying to voice your opinion". Begging your pardon? Is this forum now just for people who agree with you? There are lots of pro-fascist forums for you everywhere on the Internet if you can't handle polite disagreement.

"your communist experiment has failed everywhere it was tried" - Well, I don't see anybody advocating communism here. What I do see, however, is how much your opinion reflects Breivik's - you even use his "cultural marxism" label to conveniently use on anyone who does not share your opinion. Also, what I do see is that you are clearly advocating some sort of white supremacist experiment which has failed everywhere, even in South Africa where they also were "happy to work with the natives", as long as those did not cause too much trouble, sure...

"Canada has the right to chose [sic] it's [sic] ethnic future [sic]" - How long into the future can you "choose" your country's ethnicity? 100 years? 500 years? A "thousand-year Reich"? And what if Canada chooses the multi-ethnic future which, erm, is the mere continuation of its multi-ethnic present, and therefore disagrees with you? Will you go "Breivik" or what?

"Canada - by all accounts - is a 'Western country', western values, history, culture, and people" - Of course it is a Western country. But are you sure that the last 400 years of European settlement and subjugation nullifies 20,000 years of native presence and history? White European countries have been white and European for millenia, as opposed to Canada.

"By no means is multiculturalism a moral choice" - Oh really? could you please specify? What is moral? to segregate people by skin colour? Let me break the news for you: Canada has always been multicultural, at least since the end of the Seven Year's war in 1763 (if we choose to ignore the natives once again). Are you aware that 22% of Canadians are French speakers, are Catholics and the Queen Elizabeth has snubbed Quebec since that day when she was booed there back in the '60s? There have been 2 distinct European cultures cohabiting in Canada for the last 3 centuries indeed. But well, we know what you mean by "multicultural" so of course for you it's not "real" multiculturalism as long as we talk about French-speaking white people vs English-speaking whities...

"In one more generation, Paris will be 80% black and Arab" - Any evidence for this? Any link to a valid demographic study and forecast? Or is this just more unmitigated cr*p like everything else?
11:40 August 9, 2011 by yourholiness
A lot of people would say that unfortunately Paris in large part is no longer french.
12:45 August 9, 2011 by ChrisRea
@ yourholiness

How many people are "a lot"? 10, 100? Maybe 1,000 out of 50,000,000? It is easy to make vague statements when it is hard to find facts to support your opinion, isn't it?
15:12 August 9, 2011 by LecteurX
A lot of people would say that the Earth was created 6,000 years ago and Eve was made out of Adam's rib.

A lot of people who know nothing about France would say that the 2 million inhabitants of France's overseas territories and islands scattered around the world are not French 'cause they're not white enough, although they have been for the last 400 years mostly.

A lot of people like to think that their own beliefs are shared by "a lot of people".

A lot of people should better support their claims with hard facts or just stick to whatever topics they have a clue about.
02:08 August 10, 2011 by yourholiness
And a lot of people would no longer recognize reality if it came up and kissed them.
19:09 August 14, 2011 by bugger
Yes you are "Open and Democratic" towards the Moslem immigrants not the native Norwegians who don't want this immigration. But then social engineering the Norwegian demographic through moslem immigration and shutting down all opposition to it through hate crime laws is yet another example of your "Open and Democratic process".

Handling Brevik trial in secret will put old Soviet Union to shame is yet another example of your "Open and Democratic" Norwegian Society. All this being done by the Labor thugs so the real issues of "Moslem immigration" under the guidance of EU/OIC continues unabated behind the scenes.

Your Labor display characteristic tendency of hate and intolerance towards the native Norwegians. Sure Brevik is a terroristic so is Norwegian labor party given its long alliance with the Hamas. By the way Hitler and Stalin both were leftist just like you.
21:51 August 15, 2011 by Finnpundit
If Breivik really hated Muslims he would have targeted them exclusively. No, this murder spree was directed at Labor Party members. To understand the root causes of this crime we should try to understand why the Labor Party elicits so much hatred.

Of course, that is anathema to major media in Europe, who trot out the usual "Islamophobia" arguments.
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