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German Muslims worried after Norway massacre

The Local · 26 Jul 2011, 16:26

Published: 26 Jul 2011 16:26 GMT+02:00

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The chairman of the Turkish Community in Germany, Kenan Kolat, called on Tuesday for Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich, to convene a “prevention conference on the theme of Islamophobia.”

There needed to be a show of strength against right-wing extremism and xenophobia, he said. Kolat added that a ban on the far-right National Democratic Party was also needed, though this would not solve the problem in itself.

“These attitudes are there in the community – and we have to fight them together,” he said.

Anders Behring Breivik, a Norwegian far-right nationalist, has admitted killing at least 76 people in a mass shooting on the island of Utoeya and a bombing in Oslo, last Friday.

Breivik killed mostly young Norwegian members of the centre-left Labour Party who were on a summer camp. But he expressed in a 1,500 page manifesto the view that Islam was taking over Europe. The case has raised questions about whether there is a simmering far-right fringe in Europe ready to carry out further attacks, including against Muslims.

The chairman of the Islamic Council for the Federal Republic of Germany, Ali Kizilkaya, also expressed concern that the Norway massacre represented a deeper problem. He said on Tuesday that Islamophobia was “very underestimated” in Germany and that the whole society must carefully consider how a “a culture of tolerance” could be promoted.

He blasted the federal government’s present integration policies as “at a dead end.”

“Something is awry when a xenophobic and Islamophobic book becomes a best-seller,” he added, apparently referring to ex-central banker Thilo Sarrazin’s best-selling polemic, “Germany Does Away With Itself,” which was published last year.

Story continues below…

Sarrazin, also a former Berlin finance minister has come to epitomise a controversial form of populist anti-immigration and anti-Islamic rhetoric that critics argue may fuel the views of extremists like Breivik.

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The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

17:26 July 26, 2011 by bramblebush
I suppose that islamies think that the Government can simply make a decree and it will change people's sentiments....
17:45 July 26, 2011 by ExpatUSA
He blasted the federal government¦#39;s present integration policies as ¦quot;at a dead end.¦quot;
That Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan urges Turks in Germany not to assimilate certainly "helps"...

18:09 July 26, 2011 by Englishted
Why now ?,

The have been instances of other extremism that have been met with silence,

we in Europe like or freedoms ,when they come out and condemn the death warrants on Danish cartoon drawers and a English writer then I will hear what you say ,integration is not a one way street but you are correct that at the moment it is at a dead end.
18:14 July 26, 2011 by Jack Kerouac
I agree Englishted, they want a "tolerence conference" because now THEIR community is being affected by radical people. It was okay for the Germans and Danish (as in the case of the Muhammed cartoon contraversy) to keep quiet about extreme measures taken (like censorship) in order to prevent offence to the Muslims. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and they don't like it. Everybody needs to be held to the same standards if we are to get anywhere. Extreme opinions are never the correct ones.
18:37 July 26, 2011 by GFG
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
19:03 July 26, 2011 by Kennneth Ingle
I am sure nobody would be anti- Islam, if the Moslems living in Germany would respect European way of life. This is unfortunately not always the case, instead we see a large number incoming migrants trying to tell Europeans how they should change their way of life.

It is inexplicable for many of us, to observe how the German government is only ready to blame its own people, when disagreements occur.

Anybody criticising Moslems, Jews, or other minority groups can be charged with trying to cause racial or religious hatred. At the same time, Germans are being titled as Nazis on a daily basis in world and national publications, without any sign of protest by the Bundestag.

If it is any comfort, the tragic crime which has been committed in Norway is unlikely to change the opinions Germans have about the Moslems living in this country. This can only be changed by the conduct of the Moslems themselves.
21:02 July 26, 2011 by ChrisRea
@ Kennneth Ingle,

Interesting - my experience showed me the opposite of what you say. Can you please give me two examples of incoming migrants trying to tell Europeans how they should change their way of life? I hope you do not consider fighting Islamophobia a change in the way of life.

I also doubt that Germans are being titled as Nazis on a daily basis. At least not by relevant publications. If you are so convinced about this, can you please give me an example for the today, yesterday and the day before yesterday? Thank you in advance.
22:01 July 26, 2011 by authun
I like ChrisRea's voice of reason.
06:37 July 27, 2011 by harcourt
ChrisRea #9

I couldn't agree with you more !!
06:40 July 27, 2011 by MichaelMolenaar
Cultural diversity between countries is a beautiful thing. Cultural diversity within a country leads to conflict and dissolution. The Netherlands and Germany are just as crowded as Japan or China, yet no one is calling for Japanese and Chinese culture to be replaced. They say they are anti-racist what they are is anti-white. Anti-racism is just code for anti-white.
07:35 July 27, 2011 by ChrisRea
@ MichaelMolenaar

"Cultural diversity within a country leads to conflict and dissolution." - Sure, it is enough to take a look to the USA (Note for those who did not understand: this is an irony).

"The Netherlands and Germany are just as crowded as Japan or China, yet no one is calling for Japanese and Chinese culture to be replaced." Who exactly called for German culture to be replaced? And what has to do the density of the population with this? Or by "crowded" you mean with a significant number of cultures being represented by a significant number of people? If this is the case, you might want to check your numbers again.

"They say they are anti-racist what they are is anti-white." Who is anti-white? Can you refer to a discriminatory action against white people? Or at least a quote?
07:54 July 27, 2011 by delvek
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
08:43 July 27, 2011 by ChrisRea
@ delvek

Being anti-Muslim (to negatively discriminate people because they believe in Islam) means having a prejudice. According to what you say, you judge people based on their religion, not on their action. If you also turn your prejudice into action (it does not have to be physical violence, verbal rudeness for example would do), this is called doing harm to others and is not something to be promoted or protected by the government.

By wanting to send Muslims to their Muslim countries, you ignore the fact that there are Muslims who come from non-Muslim countries (like US) or are German (being born here, having German parents etc).
09:20 July 27, 2011 by delvek
haha, that is so funny, comment removed. My post had nothing negative in it other then to simply say that I disliked a group of people. Such hypocrites, all of you need to be more honest with yourselves. You should embrace freedom of self, freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Until HONEST dialogue is spoken we will continue have the problems we have. GOOD WORK FREE PRESS!

@ ChrisRea,

Since you post "approved" comments good for you. As for me, I never said I wanted to send Muslims back, I questioned why they would want to live somewhere that doesnt welcome them. They have very particular rules and beliefs that they strictly adhere to. Makes no sense to try and force a circle through a sqaure opening. Reform their own homeland and make it that shining Islamic city on the hill.

Guess its about time I left this forum, dialogue is not welcome and differenes of opinion are not respected. Besides its easier to all sing songs around the campfire then have real conversations.
09:22 July 27, 2011 by oldWine
@Kennneth Ingle : No muslim nor any other minority group have ever said to any locals to change their way of life. You are misleading.

Muslims want to live peacefully and obeying respecting the laws of Democractic Germany. Mos of the immigrants that I see on the streets are doing variety of jobs

some may be bus drivers some may be cleaning streets, some are IT professionals etc.

They all got well integrated with the European life, some of them do go to Theatres in the Park do party what a normal german family do. At the same time they say their prayers five times a day ( not all of them ) to thank the Almighty God and in the prayer they wish good stuffs not for himself for the country where they are living.

Now for some radical/ racist people they are not happy with these doings they want to forcefully change the peaceful moslems lives.The want them to eat pork ( whcih is forbidden in their religion) want them to drink alcohol which is also forbidden. Want to control their clothes ( forcefully saying no to wear this and that ). Is in it that in the name of integration you are forcing someone's personal likngs?
09:52 July 27, 2011 by GolfAlphaYankee
@delvek: #16: (Guess its about time I left this forum)

Oh! too bad, don´ t let the door hit you on your way out!

@Kennneth IngleIf #6:

(If it is any comfort, the tragic crime which has been committed in Norway is unlikely to change the opinions Germans have about the Moslems living in this country. This can only be changed by the conduct of the Moslems themselves.)

so you´re saying that you take Comfort in believing that a racially motivated terror attack is unlikely to change the opinion of bigoted Germans ? Comforting indeed ....:-(((
11:31 July 27, 2011 by LiberalGuy
I think a lot of people have trouble differentiating between the extremist elements in Islam and Muslims in gerneral. The majority of muslims live in East Asia and the Indian subcontinent. Not the Arabian penisula. So why do we hold up Iran and Saudi Arabia as the bench mark in which we judge all Muslims? Indonesia has more Muslims (population roughly 238 million) than the entire Middle East (population roughly 192 million), and depsite the Bali bombings, is a beacon of moderation and tolerance when compared to governmants of Iran and Saudi Arabia.
11:57 July 27, 2011 by zeddriver
One thing that was burned into the mind of the average American after 9/11. Were the actions that the Islamic leaders and community took after the attacks.

First, The Muslim leaders and the Muslim community at large sat back in silence. No one came forward from that community to condemn those acts done in their name.

Secondly, That very same Muslim community started partying in the streets celebrating those attacks.

As they say. First impressions are the lasting ones. Due to the response or lack thereof by the Muslim community. Americans formed a deep mistrust of all things Muslim.

And to this day. Very few Muslims will speak up and condemn the acts of a few bad apples in their camp.

If Muslims want to live side by side with other cultures. They first must openly and loudly police their own.

Even though my country has done some very stupid things as of late. We "the public" at least are open about showing our displeasure with how our gov. is doing things. Most Americans want our troops out of the middle east.

And we in America were very vocal about our displeasure when the preacher in America said he was going to burn the Koran. When was the last time a Muslim in the middle east stood up and said no to a bible burning?
12:10 July 27, 2011 by Expat IV
Well said, Zeddriver.
12:29 July 27, 2011 by freechoice
Atrocities done in the name of Atheism! Greater than any religious faith!

13:11 July 27, 2011 by lunchbreak
Some very good points Zeddriver. I'm looking forward to any cogent responses that will address the specific issues you raise.
13:48 July 27, 2011 by ChrisRea
@ zeddriver

The core of your posting is made of false statements.

"The Muslim leaders and the Muslim community at large sat back in silence. No one came forward from that community to condemn those acts done in their name." - On the very same day, Muslims condemned the 9/11 attacks. Quote from one of their statements: "The American Muslim Political Coordination Council (AMPCC), today condemned the apparent terrorist attacks in New York and Washington and offered condolences to the families of those who were killed or injured." Take a look also to this article from BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1544955.stm

"And to this day. Very few Muslims will speak up and condemn the acts of a few bad apples in their camp." - Actually many Muslims publicly condemned terrorism. Couple of examples: Köln, November 2004, rally of 20-25,000 Muslims; many cities around India, December 2008, similar rallies organised (in Mumbai alone there were 5,000 people). If you want more examples, you just have to use Google.

@ freechoice

Please send the correct link. The one you use does not point to atrocities done in the name of atheism, but (supposedly) by people of no faith. If an atheist kills another person in order to rob him/her, it does not mean that it is a crime in the name of atheism. The Soviet Union did not kill people because they were religious, but to retain power.
14:56 July 27, 2011 by zeddriver
Point taken @ ChrisRea I will still stand behind my basic premise. And I can't imagine that Americas media with it's basic core believe that America is bad and one world socialism is the answer. Would not give air play to Muslims condemning the attacks.

While it might not be fair. It will be the responsibility of the peace loving average Muslim population to change the perception of their religion. If they aren't being heard. They need to speak louder. If they hear or see of any planed attacks. they need to call the authorities.

The western world needs to listen to these fair minded Muslims. Unfortunately, The ball is in their court. And from the outside. They don't seem to be playing.

I hope this changes. As I have neither the time nor desire to worry about the Muslim population. I have better things I could be doing.
15:03 July 27, 2011 by lunchbreak
@ ChrisRea

If you actually read the bbc piece many muslims condemned the attack because it was carried out by the Israel or Christians or said the US deserved it because of it foreign policies.
15:23 July 27, 2011 by ChrisRea
@ lunchbreak # 26

Are you referring to: "Syria's most senior Islamic leader described the attacks on America as a terrorist act, as ignoble as what he called the state terrorism practised by Israel."?

Or maybe to "Hundreds of Palestinians also rallied in the West Bank city of Ramallah to show support for Americans killed in the attacks, as well as condemn Israeli killing of Palestinians in Jenin."?

If so, you probably need to read the article again. If not, please point out the sentence(s) where they say that the attack was carried by the Israel or Christians.

Also, "America's support and its arrogant policies around the world might help to explain the brutalism of the hijackers" is not the same as saying that the US deserved it. Or did you had another paragraph in mind?

Apparently it is you that did not read the BBC article.
15:53 July 27, 2011 by lunchbreak
@ ChrisRea

Yes your right. I confused this article with the dozens of quotes I've read over the years of imman's accusing Israel, the CIA or both. But if "America's support and its arrogant policies around the world might help to explain the brutalism of the hijackers" is not the same as saying that the US deserved it, it comes pretty damn close. Most of us know how many muslims really felt when we watched them dance in the streets upon the news.
16:16 July 27, 2011 by thepeacelover
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
18:11 July 27, 2011 by ChrisRea
@ zeddriver #25

I am glad you took my point. After all, Turkish Community in Germany did exactly what you think it is a good idea - they spoke louder. And because of the present article, you (and maybe others) become aware that Muslims condemned terrorist attacks from the very beginning. Of course, those that do not want to hear that will continue to ignore the facts, no matter how loud are they shouted.
18:52 July 27, 2011 by zeddriver
@ChrisRea Well, It's a start. Some people do not have an open mind. I think the bigger issue is intertwined with another. I think a bigger problem than not hearing is the reason some don't hear.

I.E. A lot of the worlds population has become rather cynical. The main reason. Politicians. politicians in general blather on endlessly about how they will save you and the rest of the world if you elect them. Once they do get elected. They go back on their word. So, Someone can say something all day long and no one will listen. Because they have been lied to so often. Most want to believe. But we have been conditioned to not believe until we see action to back up those words.

That is why I say. The Muslim population must show action in policing their own. Action speaks louder than words. Keep speaking loudly as well.

Both sides have a lot of work to do.
18:39 July 28, 2011 by SockRayBlue
When citizens are forced to accept something there will always be trouble in one way or another. Not being European I can't intelligently comment on your problem, but I can cited what has been going on in America and it's brewing Black Problem. The adults in this country have pretty much gotten along with each other through the years. The growing problem is that for the last forty years "Equal Rights" have given 15% (black) of the population hand outs that the remainder of the population wasn't entitled to. The cities have become devoid of a white population while blacks and now more minorities have claimed as their own. Cities cater to these folks in an effort to quell any disharmony. The Equal Rights deal has created a nation of leaches. Eventually the half that works will have to stop paying for the other half that collects the government largess. I have no idea what will happen in educated Europe, but I do wonder what will happen when the educated masses have to support the less intellectual masses.
22:50 July 28, 2011 by Kennneth Ingle
In ref. to the questons raised by -21:02 July 26, 2011 ChrisRea and 09:22 July 27, 2011 oldWine

To question one. I must admit, the first time I heard about it, I was quite surprised too! But a lady was ordered to remove her china pigs from her windowsill because they upset her Moslem neighbours.

To question two. These sentences can be read in a popular International Blog this evening:

"Neo-Nazi vacationers can also take advantage of rental homes in a mountainous region south of Dresden known as "Saxon Switzerland." ----

"The more brazen the self-identified "National Socialist Movement" has become in Germany in recent years, the more energy it is devoting to members' children. Investigators estimate that neo-Nazi households are raising several thousand children to be familiar with weapons, violence, raiding private homes, Nazi cult objects, songs of the Hitler Youth and Waffen-SS, and the worshiping of major figures from the Third Reich. They are unwittingly becoming part of a sworn "fighting community" hidden behind a middle-class façade."

I trust that these above points are enough to satisfy your interests. On the other hand, using the word Islamphobic, suggests that those who have reason to fear Islamists are all sick, surely this cannot really be your opinion?
02:02 July 29, 2011 by mike_1983
tolerance must go both ways!!!
07:15 July 29, 2011 by harcourt
Kenneth Ingle #33

Referring to the example you quote about "brazen Nat. Soc. movement in Germany in recent years" etc. etc. In the last 20 yrs I've been in Germany I have noticed in most good bookshops a definite increase in the sale of Books, Video Cassettes and now DVDs about all aspects of the Third Reich. Now is this a genuine response to an intellectual desire to study this dark period in Germanys history, or what I suspect pandering to the resurgent interest in the Nazis, from " behind the lace curtain " Germans in towns and villages all over Germany.
08:36 July 29, 2011 by ChrisRea
@ Kennneth Ingle #33

So I asked you for two examples of incoming migrants telling Europeans how to change their way of life and you tell me a second-hand story about an unnamed lady who supposedly was told to move her China pigs. Following your logic, it would mean that if I ask my neighbour to water my flowers while I am gone, I am trying to change her way of life (as she never watered my flowers until now). That's indeed a serious issue.

Secondly, you stated that everyday media titles Germans as Nazi. When asked about examples, you quote news about Nazis in Germany. With all due respect, this does not mean that Germans are being titled as Nazi (and I see no need for Bundestag to react, as you suggest they should do). The news you referred to show only that there are some Nazis in Germany (as in most countries in the world).
16:59 July 29, 2011 by Al uk
@ chris rea you quote the BBC which everyone knows is a left leaning, multi-cult loving, PC broadcaster and hardly unbiased.

Zeddriver is bang on the money.
17:43 July 29, 2011 by harcourt
Al uk

Don't give me that guff. When the Tories are in power the BBC is left-leaning, when Labour is in power the BBC is right wing. This tells you that the BBC is pretty well down the middle. As an ex-employee of the BBC for 30 yrs.I can tell you that we were VERY vigilant against bias in our output !!
18:19 July 29, 2011 by Kennneth Ingle
ChrisRea, to post 36,

There seems to be some misunderstanding here, it was the chairman of the Turkish Community in Germany, Kenan Kolat, who called on Tuesday for Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich, to convene a ¦quot;prevention conference on the theme of Islamophobia.¦quot; ( not being there at the time this was for me, also second-hand information ).

Despite not being a German , I just think it is time for the Bundestag to do as much for its own people as it does for others. During my years in Germany this has not been the case.
00:42 July 30, 2011 by ChrisRea
OK, I understand now that you cannot support your statements with the examples I asked for. So I will not ask you to provide some proof (not anecdotal evidence) that the Bundestag is not doing as much for its own people as it does for others.
09:28 July 30, 2011 by whatsup
Living here has made me realise how right wing many people there are - maybe the government should look into the extreme right wing groups as they do pose a danger ....
11:48 July 30, 2011 by harcourt
Couldn't agree with you more whatsup. After coming to Germany from the UK 20yrs ago to live, I never realised to what extent right wing views are held here. Plus after coming into contact with US businessmen over here, the same goes for them as well.
14:36 July 30, 2011 by eudes marinho
See this news below and conclude why, where, when, how, because, for whom it was created .... What is the predominant religion in this country? Breivik was there?

Font: http://www.bbc.co.uk/portuguese/ultimas_noticias/2011/07/110730_paquistao_tiroteio_cc_rn.shtml

Attack 'kills 11 Shiites "in Pakistan

Updated July 30, 2011 - 07:23 (GMT) 10:23 GMT

An attack in the city of Quetta in southwestern Pakistan, left eleven dead, local police said.

It is believed that all those affected are members of the Shiite minority in the country. Five other people were injured.

Police said unidentified gunmen fired from inside a vehicle near a bus stop.

Quetta is the capital of Baluchistan province bordering Afghanistan.

Over the past 20 years, Sunni and Shiite extremist groups clashed in violent attacks in Pakistan.

On Friday, gunmen killed seven Shiite pilgrims on the outskirts of Quetta. Police said the pilgrims waited for a bus that would take them to Iran
04:31 July 31, 2011 by Domdeone
It is tragic these cold blooded murders.. I see the guy who did them as someone who is repressed. In western european culture our sensibilities are being downtrodden & dismissed. It is our right to voice opinion, if we see our society, lifestyle, religion or laws changing because of external influence & ideologies & told we are racist bigots if we do not embrace, cohere or other key terminologies they use there is going to be more reactions similar to Oslo. We are sleep-walking into a situation that is happening before our very eyes.

There is a natural flow for immigration, which in theory is grand, not wholesale swamping of economic migrants seeking a more secure life into our countries. The writings on the wall!
21:49 July 31, 2011 by Kelly McDonald
In my opinion Christians and Muslim Cultures are incompatible, These kind of things are going to keep happening until the Muslims return to their own countries, 5 incidents that I read about come to mind, Lara Logan was raped in Eygpt trying to do a 60 minute episode, a school teacher was beaten by 4 Muslim students with pipes, another school teacher was stabbed by a female Muslim student in class, a parade of soldiers were being yelled at by muslims as they walked though town, a pig in a window, MUSLIMS WILL NOT ASSIMILATE INTO OUR SOCIETY, they say things like why would we want to be like you, you drink and beat your wife, among other things, If women in Islamic countries walk along they are targeted for rape, Women can't Drive a Car, Vote, many other things that Women in European and Western Cultures have and if these rights were repealed women would take to the streets once again to regain them. I know a saying that goes "No Man is a Island", but since Time and Mermorial these 2 cultures have clashed. That is what I have to say about it.
14:31 August 1, 2011 by Domdeone
No immigrants.. no problem! Would be a dream to go back to the 50s in Britain but alas what we did in colonialisation 100 hundred years previously, in fact going back to Queen Elizebeth I, we are reaping the `rewards` now.

Britain`s second city Birmingham will have a 50/50 ratio within 15 years it is estimated. Am I happy? NO.. I see one area after another turned into a ghetto, beautiful buildings gutted-modernised (blinged up).

Rampaging Pakistani youth desimating society; mugging:assaults for their enjoyment,drug dealing, pimping, money laundering, & the good guys are devout muslims. The prison statistics show it all.

Theres too many young black kids `outside` of society that need bringing back into also. mind you with single parenting the norm, what do you expect?

Am not generalising I must state.

With our forefather`s actions there is still too much resentment & contempt for our society & its native citizens.

Then theres white `chavs` that shame our once great nation, probably next generation whose fathers were fighting on the football terraces in the 70s

Ive had enough: told words like embrace,cohesion,diversity, all I see is white flight but all the way down the line our politicians allow our industry

to have been asset-stripped & sold off abroad...as a Christian minister said of recent `there are unseen forces at hand intent on bringing down society`

How right a true word was ever spoken Could I moan any louder?
17:00 September 15, 2011 by Lost in Fulda
Zendriver, You are so right. No response at all. Did you see the community respond to a cartoon, yes a cartoon? Did 3,000+ people die because of the cartoon. NO RESPONSE AT ALL! When I hear Muslims want peace, I ask where are demonstration to show this. Is it easier to burn an Embassy?
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