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Germany to supply bombs for Libya mission

The Local · 28 Jun 2011, 08:14

Published: 28 Jun 2011 08:14 GMT+02:00

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The website of news magazine Der Spiegel reported Monday night that NATO, facing a shortage of bombs, approached all its members last week about contributing the components and technology for bombs and other weapons.

Berlin has agreed and Defence Minister Thomas de Maizière has approved the measure. The Bundeswehr will supply bomb parts and complete shells to the NATO Maintenance and Supply Agency (NAMSA), the magazine reported, citing government sources.

So far there have been no requests from NAMSA for specific parts or shells, though the details of what NATO needs are expected to be sent through within a few days. Then it will be decided whether the Bundeswehr can help and how quickly it can supply the weapons technology needed.

The move represents another concession by Germany after its surprise abstention in the United Nations Security Council on the vote to authorize military action. Along with its refusal to commit forces to the mission, the decision earned the ire of its closest allies including the United States, France and Britain.

German government figures, notably Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle, has since spoken critically of the mission. But the German government appears to hope that its isolation on the Libya issue will be partly mitigated with the latest move.

Since then, planes from those three allies, under the command of NATO have been bombing Libya in order to contain dictator Muammar Qaddafi and help the rebels who have been trying to depose him since the uprising began in February.

The request from NATO follows repeated warnings from Britain in particular that the daily attacks and long patrol flights could no continue at such pace. There was now a clear shortage of air-to-ground missiles, which the sorties over Tripoli and other parts of the country urgently need.

Story continues below…

The Local/djw

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

08:54 June 28, 2011 by Gilly58
"Vorsprung durch Kriegsgeschäft" So, where are all of thoses muppets that we're condoning Germany's stance to the Lybian conflict now...
09:43 June 28, 2011 by jmclewis
Angie, You oppose military action on humanitarian ground but you are willing to supply the end to the means. So you want all of the reward without the risk, a true have your cake and eat it too........ looking at your young girlish figure do you really need to eat more cake? Is it possible for you to become a be a bigger hypocrite?
10:02 June 28, 2011 by harcourt
Unbelievable "volte face" - Jack K : this one you'll have to look up in an Italian dictionary !!
10:44 June 28, 2011 by IYWMTS
It's quite amusing to see what happens now...

At first Germany was criticised for its abstention in the Secutity Coucil, it was even questioned whether Germany would be ready for taking responsibilty on world affairs or not - but eventually especially the British and the French realised that this thing might be a bit too big for them, because they are slowly beginning to run out of ammunition and the enemy is still there. (the U.S. already complained in the end it's always up to them although the British and the French wanted to start this war)

But well, what did you expect? I supposse the French and the British are suffering from an overestimation of one's own capabilities. (as the British always do when it comes to playing football)
10:50 June 28, 2011 by Bushdiver
@ Gilly58..........Supplying munitions and technologie at this late stage wouldn't mean that Germany is now participating. There's a big difference between supplying balls and actually playing the game.
10:50 June 28, 2011 by Carlos Hausner
If you really want to nail Gaddafi and his gang you should drop some of your organic beansprouts on 'em.
10:54 June 28, 2011 by IYWMTS
But well, what did you expect? I suppose the French and the British are suffering from an overestimation of their own capabilities. (as the British always do when it comes to playing football)
11:32 June 28, 2011 by starsh3ro
sadly our government is full of hypocrites.
11:41 June 28, 2011 by Gilly58
@ Bushdiver...On the Bus off the Bus...

naa fella, I beg to disagree, at what late stage? Is the bloke still in office? You are either in or out....simples ;)And now coz you've decided that you are in afterall, its most probable that it will be German ordanace that finally removes the bloke from office.
13:15 June 28, 2011 by harcourt
Bushdiver : #5

I thought that the whole problem from the very beginning was that Germany DIDN'T have the balls for conflict !!

and IYWMTS: I suppose you were so pleased with your little quip that you had to post it again !!
13:55 June 28, 2011 by ovalle3.14
Involved with the war, but not really involved with the war.
13:59 June 28, 2011 by IYWMTS
@ hartcourt: No, I just don't like mistyping and/or making grammatical errors, thus I posted the last part of my comment again so this time it would be right.

Germany did not want to participate in a conflict which is - once again - all about exhaustible raw materials. What about Syria or Bahrian where thousands of innocent demonstraters were killed because of demanding democracy?

Where are the British, the French, the Americans now?

This shows that the war which is fought in Lybia is all about oil and abolishing a dictator who does not want to do what others want them to do and about establishing a new government consisting of the so called rebels which will eventually do what others want them to do.

You see the problem with the British and the French is that they might have "balls" - as you said - when it comes to talking, but isn't it a bit embarassing that they have to ask Germany for ammunition after having begun a war which especially both of them wanted to go to? Doing this after saying Germany would not be able to take responsibilty on world affairs leads to the question whether Britain and France are capable of taking responsibilty on world affairs or if they are simply dreaming of former long gone glory.
14:09 June 28, 2011 by freechoice
please no more unnecessary expenditures! else you collect more taxes from me!
14:56 June 28, 2011 by Gilly58

NO it's not embarassing to ask Germany for ammunition at all, afterall, Germany is a member of NATO, and had it been part of the coalition from the outset, the whole thing could probably have been over by now. As I mentioned earlier, you are either in or out, and now it would seem that you have finally decided to be in, perhaps you could post something with more substance.
15:01 June 28, 2011 by Bushdiver
@ Gilly58...........Like I said, Germany will deliver munitions, others will do the work. This doesn't mean that Germany is fullfilling it's share of responsibility to NATO. You said it yourself. You are either in or out. Delivering equipment doesn't put you in.

@ harcourt .......I thought that the whole problem from the very beginning was that Germany DIDN'T have the balls for conflict !!

Do you think now that the Germany are sending bombs, that they now have balls? I don't think so.
15:33 June 28, 2011 by IYWMTS
@ Gilly58:

Of course Germany is part of NATO, I have never denied that. And as a member of NATO you are usually obligated to a certain solidarity. But nevertheless Germany decided for abstention in the Security Council AND they even withdrew some ships which were part of the NATO-alliance so that they would not have to participate in that conflict.

But when NATO decides to intervene does that automatically mean intervention is right?

Im my personal opinion intervening in Libya was wrong - the reasons given for intervening can be adopted to various other countries - but still the NATO does not intervene in these particular countries.

And therefore I would have liked to see our government not to supply NATO with bombs for the reasons I mentioned above.
15:44 June 28, 2011 by Gilly58
@ Bushdiver...

and like I said, I beg to disagree, Germany is now commited whether you like it or not.
16:58 June 28, 2011 by harcourt
IYWMTS : #12 :

You don't have to apologise for mis-typing in these comment columns, we all do it and it is accepted and ignored. The fact you pointed it out and then went on to mis-type quite a few times is a bit ironic.

Back to the topic: the French and British didn't just talk they went out there and did something, whether you agree with it or not !! And as far as dreaming of long gone glories perhaps we should thank God that Germany doesn't have these dreams of former "glories" !!
17:45 June 28, 2011 by lecturenotes2009
@ harcourt, bushdiver, you guys may write long sentences and arguments, either as proponents or opponents of the NATO's action, but, still do not answer these particular questions from IYWMTS:

"What about Syria or Bahrian where thousands of innocent demonstraters were killed because of demanding democracy?

Where are the British, the French, the Americans now?"

Well, if NATO argument says Khaddafi abuses human right, what about China? Bahrain (close allied of USA)...

it's all about LOL...
19:42 June 28, 2011 by derExDeutsche
The rebels are being armed and advised by the CIA in a grab for Libyan Oil.

CIA together with NATO are nothing more and nothing less than murderers and criminals.

Who cares where the bullets came from? USA, China, Germany or Timbuktu
19:45 June 28, 2011 by MJMH
Why should any European nation get involved anyway. If the Middle East wants freedom let them fight for it. America did during the American Revolution and so did the French during the French Revolution. You can't hand freedom to any country.
19:47 June 28, 2011 by IYWMTS
@ harcourt: Nobody is perfect - including myself.

"And as far as dreaming of long gone glories perhaps we should thank God that Germany doesn't have these dreams of former "glories" !!"

Well, you seem to be one of those persons who is still living in the 1930s or 1940s. Do you really think that the Kaiserreich oder the Third Reich is regarded as "former glory" by the Germans? - Maybe by a few idiots to the far right, but not by the majority of the German population including myself.

"Back to the topic: the French and British didn't just talk they went out there and did something"

Yes, they did something - bombing a by far inferior army in their highly modern fighters and helicopters - but let's see if they are willing to send in ground forces - and I don't mean special forces operating in small groups.

But back to my questions about not intervening in state like Syria - do you have an answer to that?
21:57 June 28, 2011 by ryhntyntyn
The Spiegel Articles (there are 2) address that the German reservations were specifically about risks. But we all have also debated the moral aspects of the interventions as well. There are a few issues here that this lively group might want to chew on. Something good might come out.

NATO proponents feel that Germany isn't pulling their weight. So now are they hypocrites? or is it enough that they might soon start supplying the NATO with bomb parts and shells?

The Spiegel also mentions that the Bundestag wasn't told about the request, or the acceptance thereof. Does that make a difference?

Last but not least, although a NAMSA request is a normal request in the NATO framework, since the war is going on and we know where the bomb parts will go, does that make a difference?

Lastly, what about Syria? Jordan? China? The CIS? Where if anywhere, does or should the intervention stop?
22:13 June 28, 2011 by harcourt

Well I'm old enough to remember being bombed (personally) by your terror raids against civilians in England, so may be I am forgiven for having vivid memories of those years !! It seems like a bit of predjudice to say that Gadaffi has inferior armed forces. After all he was armed with modern sophisticated weapons from Europe including Germany. Especially the old East Germany( far left wing idiots)

Syria is a far more complex problem, personally I think there should NOT be an exemption for Syria. With Libya you had agreement from the Arab League AND the African Union for action in Libya. This you do not have at the moment in the Syrian uprising !! I guess this won't be enough for you .
23:02 June 28, 2011 by IYWMTS
Of course I can understand that having lived during WWII and having seen/experienced such terrible things must have had a big impact on you - and almost everyone - including me - wishes that these crimes would never have happened. But I beg your pardon - someone like me who was born more than 40 years after the Second World War is not responsible for what happened at this particular time - my generation is responsible for keeping this memory up and not letting anyone abuse this theme by spreading false facts, so that such awful things can never happen again. Nevertheless it would be better to speak about the Nazis terror raids against England, not "your" , i.e. our and therefore my raids.

But no, it won't be enough for me, because this does not answer my question at all - Both the Arab League and the African Union comprise states in which human rights are terribly injured every single day - to justify NATO's actions in Libya by saying there is an agreement from both of these organisations is a bit noncredible.

But we don't seem to come to a conclusion concerning this topic, so it might be better to end this discussion and save our energies for much more important things.

One more thing to Germany not having any balls - go and tell this the fathers/mothers, daughters/sons, wives/husband whose beloved ones are risking their lives and getting killed in Afghanistan.

Sincerely yours

00:08 June 29, 2011 by Major B
Gosh a lot folks got in on this quick. Oh, when I asked another commenter on this forum last week whether German arms exports were finding theren way to Libya, it was only "half" in jest.

The TRUE face if finally emerging. As long as week can support our export markets we're all FOR conflict. In the intial part, when the tough work needs to be done, we'll hide behind "phony pacifism" and say we can't contribute to the fight "because of our past".

And all those who lauded Germany for abstaining from the Security Council vote and not commiting anything to the fighting phase -- you know have "BIG EGG ON YOUR FACES".

This is so damning and doublefaced. What a government. What a government. Nope, no more criticism of Britain, France and others who who have gallantly put themselves on the line for this conflict.

This even makes Sarkozy look good.
02:34 June 29, 2011 by lecturenotes2009
@ Major B: we tend to write without hardcore facts.

about the weaponry export to Libya, Germany is still behind UK. see the link:


second thing, about oil, Which countries depend most on Libyan oil?


you see, first italy, then FRANCE, China, Germany and Spain and then UK. (don't be mistaken by reading the bar, instead, the numbers on the right side). And you know what, our lovely world police is only counting at 51..

simply to say, the allies want more, and they want to secure their interests there. you may google yourself why France gets mad with Libya, in term of oil..

and please, do not read only "this". But try to have a look from the likes of Spiegel (international), the Economist, and also Guardian. it may enlighten our knowledge, so to speak, better facts to write down.. :)

those facts make Sarkozy even uglier.. :)
04:03 June 29, 2011 by n230099
"Germany to supply bombs for Libya mission"

There's a 'mission'? How about letting the rest of us in on it...
04:57 June 29, 2011 by wenddiver
We all went to war, because our leaders lied and told us it was just enforcing a no fly zone.

Why not the truth, We have to help remove one of the worst Dictators and Terrorists in history and it will cost money and men. Maybe if they were honest for once the people of the Western Democracies would be supportive.
07:13 June 29, 2011 by Der Grenadier aus Aachen
I would have been ok with the "let's go kill him because he tortures and murders innocent people with a private army" argument.
08:08 June 29, 2011 by harcourt
IYWMTS : #25

You obviously feel strongly about the subject and I am also happy to call it a day. But lets just nail this myth about "it was the Nazis fault". Who were they, a race from another planet no they were Germans. Anyway at the outset of WWII the population of Germany was 87 million and even at the height of the war the membership of the nazi party was only 8.5 million, of which a huge number joined only because it was better to be in than out, not for ideological reasons !! I only hope they taught you that at school, or better still your grandparents told you.
09:10 June 29, 2011 by IYWMTS
I strongly feel to emphasize one more thing:

You obviously completely misunderstod my point of view. I'm not supporting the myth about "it was the Nazis fault", at last they were all Germans - but once again - my generation was not part of the whole thing and therefore cannot be blamed for what happened - this is why I said you should not use "your".

But it's always funny to see how a discussion about things done in MODERN DAY Germany almost each time ends up in talking about the Nazis, Second World War and so on... ...especially when you are disussing with the British, respectively English.
11:35 June 29, 2011 by harcourt

I apologise if I offended you, OF COURSE I didn't mean you personally or your generation, I meant your nation. Surely because my posts didn't contain any of the crude rants you see from other contributors you should have been able to gather that!!

On the subject of the 2nd WW. I think if you go round some of the European countries which suffered occupation by the German Army, especially Russia, I think you will find memories and feelings of hostility run far deeper although they may not talk about it. The English I suppose like bringing things out into the open and not brushing it under the carpet !!
12:07 June 29, 2011 by IYWMTS
I have to disappoint you on the subject of the Second World War, but I personally know many people from eastern countries (especially Poland) which were occupied by the German Wehrmacht and in which there were far more severe crimes commited than the British ever had to suffer by the Germans. Nevertheless even the older ones - who can remeber WWII - are looking to the future, not to the past and are very friendly - there is nothing like hostility which is not shown.

The same in Russia - as a family member of mine is an engineer he often goes there and they are actually very fond of the Germans, even though they keep on celebrating being victorious in the Second World War - but they know to distinguish between past and present.

And I'm sorry to say that, but this is something which many (not all) British - especially the English - don't seem to be capable of - maybe it's because of the extremely agressive British press with their stupid "Fritz Blitz" articles - maybe it's because of the British eduction system which - as far as I know - tends to minimize German history to 12 specific years.
13:28 June 29, 2011 by harcourt

I'm wondering where this conversation will go, a few more postings and you will be telling me that the people of Europe welcomed the German invasion !! I too seriously worry about education, in Germany, of history at the time of the Hitler regime. A more critical person than myself might say that it was "economical with the truth" !!
13:28 June 29, 2011 by ryhntyntyn
WWII is over and it doesn't really matter much. You all are swinging at shadows.

The Germans have not yet suplied NATO with any additional weapons.

They still might. It remains to be seen what the Parliament does.
14:01 June 29, 2011 by IYWMTS
For god's sake - I never wanted to say that the people of Europe were welcoming the German invasion - but the post war generations in these countries try to live now, not in the past, but you seem to be one of those that will never understand... Germany is one of the few countries which really deals with its own history like no other nation in the world - especially with its dark parts of history.

Therefore I DON'T HAVE TO BE TOLD by YOU that you are seriously worrying about education in Germany, especially concerning the time between 1933 and 1945 - I KNOW MY COUNTRY'S HISTORY!

Every nation should look at the dark parts of its history - also the British when it comes to exploiting the parts of their former British Empire - it should be remembered, but we should also build bridges so that all human beings can live peacefully together in the future.

But well, keep on living in your own little world, while time passes and plant earth hopefully becomes one...
15:41 June 29, 2011 by harcourt

I've obviously touched a raw nerve, for that I am truly sorry. I never wanted to cause you any personal distress.

Regards harcourt
07:21 July 1, 2011 by Kaaihueh
"Westerwelle said he believed any French arms drop had occurred in a "very specific context" but refused to take a stance because Germany is not participating in the NATO air war."

Come Germany, make up your mind. Are you in or are you out...

Or maybe the Government should take up more like the Greens and grow more "happy stuff" and say,..."Me ne frega."
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