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Germany curbs terrorist intel flow to US

The Local · 15 May 2011, 13:53

Published: 15 May 2011 13:53 GMT+02:00

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According to a report in news magazine Der Spiegel, the German interior ministry stopped passing on information to the US that could lead to the location of German citizens, after last October's deadly attack.

The attack killed three young Islamists in a Taliban camp in the border region of Waziristan. One of them, Bünyamin E., was a German citizen.

Several German courts are investigating the charge of aiding and abetting Bünyamin E.'s murder, some of which are directed at the US secret service, the CIA. Allegations have also been directed at the German secret service, the BND, which reportedly supplied information that led the US to the Islamists.

According the magazine, since this attack, BND information is supplied to the CIA with the caveat that it can only be used to arrest and not kill suspected terrorists who are also German citizens.

At the time of his death, Bünyamin E. was 20 years old and was already under BND surveillance. He had received military training in an Islamist camp in Uzbekistan and was under investigation by the German police on suspicion of preparing a terrorist attack.

Since 2001, all information about suspected terrorists has been routinely passed on to the US.

It is unclear whether a police investigation into the death of Bünyamin E. will be carried out, but under German law, if any German citizen dies by a violent act in a foreign country, the German authorities must investigate it.

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Your comments about this article

14:14 May 15, 2011 by XFYRCHIEF
Excellent move - go ahead, charge Americans over this, and see how far it goes. And then when we stop providing intel to Germany about possible terrorist attacks, you can go it alone. Really love the German BND; you can use the information to arrest, but not kill. Hahahahahaha - let's see how that works out. Obviously, the best thing is to become a German citizen before you become a terrorist so you have the German government protecting you.
15:10 May 15, 2011 by Sooney
Confused ­ just around 5 May ­ reading related comments and various articles where the German Ministry was saying something to the effect of they knew that there are remaining threats of terrorisim, vigilance is needed and defense for freedom against contempt for humanity as those Al Qaeda terrroist ­ no matter who they are - will be dealth with - More such as international cooperation and counter terrorism is needed as a crucial part in the fight for freedom. But most important to me was that the German Ministry said that they will work closely with the US to eliminate international terrorist network and serious crimes against decent human beings ­ kind of got the impression that you meant it ­ this is so different than what was said then - hopeing this article is just an opinion - but if not - it is really disappointing
15:31 May 15, 2011 by Lachner
This would be VERY dumb by the German Government, because US Intel is WAY more precise, thorough, important and accurate than what they can send back to the US. For example: the recent arrest of a terrorist cell in Dusseldorf that were fabricating bombs and plotting an attack, were arrested mainly because of the Intel supplied from the US to the German Government. Therefore, it is absurd that the German Government is "evaluating" the supply of Intel with the U.S. over an accidental death of a German Citizen.
15:55 May 15, 2011 by wood artist

I think you're on to something there. Become a German citizen, then go learn all about stuff and plan attacks in the US while inside Germany. Under German law you can't be extradited (see the Faber case) so...you're free to do anything you want outside of Germany as long as you make it back home before they come looking for you.

What a plan!

15:57 May 15, 2011 by FIUMAN
Germany has been playing both sides of the fence for some time now. There will come a time when Germany needs the intelligence assets of the USA and will be denied due to obstruction. Perhaps, because it has been a decade since the 11 Sept 2001 attacks and memories are fading or perhaps it is because Angela Merkel doesn't like Obama and likes to stab him in the face or perhaps it is because unification era Germany failed to learn the moral lessons of their actions in WWII but the facts are clear. The 11 Sept plot emanated out of Hamburg. This occurred right under the noses of German authorities. Under the guise of tolerance Germany tolerates murders in their presence and on their land. As long as the terrorism is not directed toward Germans. German foreign minister Fischer's politically inspired lecture about Democracy, directed at the USA, has not been forgotten. The arrogance of that lecture rings inside the USA to this day. The limp noodle BW presence in Afghanistan does not, in any fashion constitute an equal or fair contribution to the war on terror. BW soldiers drive around, posing in back areas while the USA foots the bill in both treasure and lives. It was not that long ago that Germany fought a war against terror on their own soil. The rules of engagement toward the RAF and Baeder-Meinhoff gangs seem to have been different than what Germany is suggesting they should be today. There will come a day when Germany, and Europe in a whole will not have the USA to defend them in the specific and greater sense. Then they will remember how they waffled and wasted their opportunities to be full partners instead of leaches on the US who, while pointing fingers, at the same time enjoy the peace and freedom supplied by US arms but are unwilling to lift a finger in their own defense.
16:16 May 15, 2011 by Al uk
Typical Euro bollox "human rights" crap! The guy got what he deserved and i cannot believe that the courts want to waste time and money on a case like this.

He wasn't over there on a holiday was he.
16:17 May 15, 2011 by Avidror
But Bünyamin E. was a terrorist and an enemy combatant during wartime. So what's the problem?
16:41 May 15, 2011 by Sooney
Just wondering if this is some kind of a public relations thing to smooth the issue of an ongoing debate as to whether or not Islam or Muslims are considered a part of Germans society - someone said it was and someone said something like - Islam being a part of Germans history cannot be proven - which brought swift and critical comments upon the interior ministry from the muslim community - sure this is not a way for the interior ministry to do the victim focus thing - you know like - ok we get your drift - we are going to talk to those people about those drones they are sending overseas get this focus off them - get them off my back - looks like they are telling them something - they are only talking about German citizens - not them here - smart thinking Germany - I get it now. (he-he) One more thing - has there not been a sharing of information with Germany since 2001 - especially Germany since 2001 - except the OBL thing - that's not it - is it....somethings really amiss here...Ok I have to give someone in the German Ministry the benefit of the doubt - lets hope they are above this type of pr tactics.
17:52 May 15, 2011 by ChrisRea
If I understood correctly the article, Germany had the situation under control (knew the moves of the suspect) and also communicated relevant information to the country they consider a partner, namely US. US acted brutally and without consulting Germany and, as a result, a German citizen who was never found guilty was killed, possibly wasting lots of effort from the German intelligence to prevent terrorism. I would say Germany has all the rights to prosecute the American officer who gave the stupid order. Probably US did not act as a partner and did not hand over the guy, so Germany realises that the relationship with the US is not a true partnership and decides to filter the information offered. Well, I guess US will have reacted the same way if the situation would have been mirrored.
17:56 May 15, 2011 by Landmine
So, in the end whose side is Germany on? Just know when they start bombing and terrorizing Germany, don't come asking for help.
18:14 May 15, 2011 by nadom
He was in training on how to kill other human beings, those most likely German. So they let him live and come back to Germany and kill Germans. Notice that was Germans not German. So they killed the bastard, notice there are more Germans still alive. Seems to me we have some sick minded Germans who do not know how to keep us safe.
18:21 May 15, 2011 by auniquecorn
Well, the worst that could of happened is he came back to germany, blow up a bus stop, kill 23 people (and children) get caught by the polizei, sentenced to 3 years for his crimes, and released.

Dam those Americans for stopping that.
18:35 May 15, 2011 by JDee
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
18:45 May 15, 2011 by Al uk
^ seems like the internet connection is back on at the local nuthouse again.
18:49 May 15, 2011 by greattoucan
I am ashamed of the American comments on this board. The person involved did NOT get a trial, and somehow the executionists here think he deserves the death penalty for being guilty by association.

The US has killed thousands of civilians indiscriminately through these drone missile attacks, and now seems hell-bent on killing civilians of its allies.

We have a Constitution in the US which gives the right to trials, due process, evidence, supporting witnesses to EVERYONE, citizens, foreigners, at home or abroad. Because Geo Bush was such a despot and you punks let him get away with does not justify any despotism that he did or that Obama does.

The German government is under a DUTY to protect its own citizens, even from its own "allies". With friends like the US, who needs enemies?
19:17 May 15, 2011 by twisted
@ greattoucan - you seems to be unaware that the US is involved in a war, a war against those who will do us (yes, I'm an American) harm and if a German is one of those wanting to harm Americans, I say tough Shlt on him. He was not, as someone posted earlier, just on vacation. He was on a business trip, the business being training for harming Americans, among others I am sure as well. Yes, I think that criminals should be tried in a court of law but this is war and soldiers in wars die without trials. Do you suppose terrorists bring their victims to a properly mandated court of law before they blow them up? You are not necessarily naive, you are stupid.
19:44 May 15, 2011 by ChrisRea

You seem to ignore the fact that "war" is not the right word for the current situation. If it would be so, the American constitution says that the Congress should make a declaration of war. Have you heard of anything like this? I guess not.

So what actually US does is to fight individuals that threaten its interests, just like it did when they fought Al Capone, for example. The difference is that, even if Al Capone ordered the killing of many (I am pretty sure there were more than what Bünyamin might have plan to), he was not shoot on sight or even before actually doing the harm.

More than that, US (well, the US government) shows profound disrespect to the countries that are actually helping them. It is not the first time and it will probably not be the last. Besides being morally wrong, it is also a sure way to prepare one's own failure.
19:53 May 15, 2011 by Sooney
Don't think the US would have reacted the same way to Germany if put in the same situation - they would probably have understood the nature of the action and realized that it was not directed toward an American Citizen (but a person who had become terrorist) and if that person happened to be killed in a terrorist camp planning to kill innocent people -they would probably have consulted and concluded that Germany acted within the framework of fighting world wide terrorism against innocent people - which everyone has been seeing for years...
20:07 May 15, 2011 by JDee
War on terror = US fabrication

War on terror was started by the US

Al-Qaeda was funded and created by the CIA

9/11 was a US operation against its own citizens

This German guy probably wouldn't even know where Afghanistan was or have ever heard of the taliban if the US hadn't started the phoný 'war' that created the terrorist,

Why should the German government want to deal with a rougue regime that has murdered its own citizens and wages war on other countries under false pretences

Do you get it yet?

Have you people been living under a rock for the last 10 years? Don't you think? Don't you analyze? Do get your information from Fox? God help us all!
20:18 May 15, 2011 by ChrisRea
@ Sooney

Somehow the reaction you assume US to have does not match its previous actions. Just a recent example: http://www.inewsone.com/2010/11/01/india-says-its-pursuing-headley-extradition/2727

US refused to extradite the admitted American terrorist helping with the attacks in Mumbai (166 deaths). You want more examples? It is as easy as a Google search.
20:21 May 15, 2011 by tallady
Germany can curb it's intel to the US no real problem for the US but if the US reciprocates then things like the intel they just received a few weeks ago about the bomb making could have an adverse affect on Germany.If should be a two way street.The real truth is that Germany is not a real player in the war against terror anyway, They have a force in Afgan. that is really not very effective.They sell arms to anyone with money. No great loss.
23:18 May 15, 2011 by FredFinger
Germany should be extremely carefully who it offends in the war with islamic extremists. The proportion of moslems vs. ethnic germans is the german population grows yearly. There may soon come a time when the germans will desperately need US help in controlling those folk and they had better hope that the rest of the civilized world has short memories about this kind of political fuzziness.
00:13 May 16, 2011 by munichiscool
Normally I dont read The Local , as mostly I have to see such biased and inhumane comments as here. Just to show some statistics to you guys:

Number of people killed in 09/11: over 6000.

Nationalities of hijackers ( None of them was from Iraq , Afghanistan or Pakistan)

Number of Pakistanis killed after 09/11: ( with drone attacks and other bombings ) : 35000

Number of people killed in Iraq :( reason of war: WMD that were never found) : More than 100,000 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War)

Number of people killed in Afghanistan: around 50000.

The question is that how many of them were terrorists?? How many of them were Taliban????? what is the end result that US want to achieve? Any idea?
03:13 May 16, 2011 by FredFinger
Yes. The US wants defend itself against the bombing of its cities by hijacked airliners. For example. As for the biased and inhumane comments here, perhaps they might be judged a bit less inhumane than the islamic terrorists whose ambitions have more to do with mass murder than poignant replies on the local.de
06:33 May 16, 2011 by nepo77
Dear Americans here, you really need to read your own constitution so maybe you will notice that you have nothing in common with America or its values and Germany is defending said values better than you are now.
06:59 May 16, 2011 by ChrisRea
Very well said, munichischool!

We can learn from FredFinger that if a neighbour spills some beer on our door mat when he is coming home drunk, than it is a reasonable defense to break the windows of all the neighbours that we do not like (we have credible information that they drink beer too, at least from time to time). Also, only for the purpose of our defense, we should slap their kids, even if some people say that they are innocent like civilians in a war. After all, they will grow up and will probably spill beer on our door mat later. Some say that they will break our windows exactly because we slapped them for no reason, but they do not know anything about preventive defense.

Also, related to the present article, it is also reasonable to slap the kid of the neighbour that told us who spilled the beer. We know from his parents that he used to play with the other future guilty kids.

And then we celebrate. Like the first night when we moved to the neighbourhood and we made a mess of all the door mats around. But hey, it was not a bit problem after all, was it?
07:22 May 16, 2011 by Sooney
Well, I have a right to my own opinion - now don't I and I will still say the US will have reacted differently as far as I am concerned.
07:37 May 16, 2011 by DIEversity
He had received military training in an Islamist camp in Uzbekistan and was under investigation by the German police on suspicion of preparing a terrorist attack..... He may have been a Citizen but he wasn't German or Christian. He was a Terrorist in training. Why would Germany side with the Terrorists? Makes one wonder why is Germany importing these people? Personally I think Germany is being destroyed by their own imigration policies. Was Mohammed Atta a German, too? He did live and plot his dasterdly deeds there.
08:06 May 16, 2011 by MfromUSA
@ChrisRea "We can learn from FredFinger that if a neighbour spills some beer on our door mat when he is coming home drunk, than it is a reasonable defense to break the windows of all the neighbours that we do not like (we have credible information that they drink beer too, at least from time to time). Also, only for the purpose of our defense, we should slap their kids, even if some people say that they are innocent like civilians in a war. After all, they will grow up and will probably spill beer on our door mat later. Some say that they will break our windows exactly because we slapped them for no reason, but they do not know anything about preventive defense.

Also, related to the present article, it is also reasonable to slap the kid of the neighbour that told us who spilled the beer. We know from his parents that he used to play with the other future guilty kids.

And then we celebrate. Like the first night when we moved to the neighbourhood and we made a mess of all the door mats around. But hey, it was not a bit problem after all, was it?"

PLEASE don't insult us with these pathetic analogies. Use something relevant, will you?
08:36 May 16, 2011 by LiberalGuy
@MfromUSA and @ChrisRea

yes we can learn something from Fred. a) the 4% of the German population that is muslim is growing at such an dramatic rate that soon muslims will soon outnumber Germans. The growth rate for them is so astounding that that 4% wil soon become 50%. *head smack*

Plus of that 4%, ALL of them are terriosts who wish to impose Sharia Law on Germany and rape your women. ALL of them.

There are 1.57 billion muslims in the world and they are all terriosts and radicals. Be Afraid!

That's what we can learn from Fred. And yes i know he will have some silly comeback to this. But frankly I'm more concerned about the Aphids on my tomatoes than some doomsday scenario he has to offer.

If you are sensible you would not pay much attention to The Local. it's really a joke news site that's just good for a laugh every now and then. Half the stories they report never show up on the mainstream news. They are just on here to bring silly comments out of people. Case in point the story about the Evangical minister who said in her Easter mass Germany should take refugees. That was a nothing story! Absolute nothing. it wasn't the Pope, it was an Evangical minister (third in Christian sects in this country) telling her congregation something in her easter mass. Nothing more. Just a nothing story. But boy the outrage from people on here. You'd think the Ayatollah was asking fro a welfare hand out. Don't pay much attention to the news on here, or what people say. It's far fetched from reality
10:07 May 16, 2011 by Englishted
4% is to high.

Look at what tolerance the Muslins show to Christians around the world.

It is not a one way street.

Istanbul is not Istanbul it is Constantinople and Greek .
10:11 May 16, 2011 by Sooney
Well Said Fred Finger -

Germany should be extremely carefully who it offends in the war with islamic extremists. The proportion of moslems vs. ethnic germans is the german population grows yearly. There may soon come a time when the germans will desperately need US help in controlling those folk and they had better hope that the rest of the civilized world has short memories about this kind of political fuzziness.

Perhaps Fred Fiinger is just saying that maybe if this is true ­ look at the big picture here ­ if this is how Germany really views the US in working wit them regarding terrorist activities as stated in this article ­ OR is this is how Germany really views the US or is this how Germany views US assistance:

Just last year April 2010, a commanding German General said something to the effect of - sometimes during adverse conditions regarding terrorist, it can be hard to tell friend from foe. His explanation is based on actual events when an untimely adverse situation took place in Kuduz ­ German troops were ambused ­ backup was called ­ US showed up and both (Germany and US) did they job well ­ they saved lives. A little hard to stop and discuss who are citizens at this point ­ unfortunately three German lives were lost later from their wounds - but many were saved from this ambush ­ but more would have been if they had not worked together. .

Would Germany have responded the same way in this manner in this instance ­ most Americans like to think that Germany would ­ why because these men were recoginized with the Gold Cross Medal ­ Germany's highest award for valor - for their support in aiding and abetting in the rescue of those German soldiers on foreign soil withChrisitian Schmidt, Germans Assistant Secretary of Defense at this event. Google that! Not all Germans see things the way other people do, that is expected, but I think these men do.

It is truly obvious that you cannot please everyone, but sometimes you have to see the forest for the trees and some people do, but Fred Finger explains it best in this instance.
12:06 May 16, 2011 by FredFinger
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
12:13 May 16, 2011 by michael4096
There is a general rule in western justice that people actually must do something wrong to be guilty of a crime. 'Intent', quite rightly, is held in low regard and usually requires a higher level of proof in a court of law. Visiting Afganistan is not a crime and associating with terrorists is not a crime. Journalists, as just one example, do it all the time.

However, in the other corner, we have a group of unaccountable people with big bombs going around blasting to little pieces anybody they feel are unworthy. Just call them 'islamists' or 'terrorists' or some other epithet and its alright - they deserve it. Who is to say otherwise? And, when someone can show that they were wrong and it was some innocent wedding or a bunch of journalists got blasted - well thats what you get in a war.

This 'war' is not going to be won with bombs but getting hundreds of millions of ordinary people to reject extremism. I don't think unaccountable slaughter will achieve that.
12:50 May 16, 2011 by FredFinger
Does anyone else find it ironic that the germans and the jews are now allies in the fight to save western civilization from this latest threat from mankind's dark side?
14:23 May 16, 2011 by LiberalGuy
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
15:32 May 16, 2011 by FredFinger
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
17:56 May 16, 2011 by LiberalGuy
I checked that site out ages ago. It doesn't appeal to me brushing 1/5 of the worlds population with the same stroke, and practically declaring war on them. Very narrow minded in my opinion. Personally I really don't like thinking of 1.57 billion people who worship a different god to me as 'evil'. That's not very 'christian' in my book. But hey each to their own. Good luck with your 'jihad' against Muslims. I'm sure it will take you places and you will live a rich, full life
18:02 May 16, 2011 by michael4096
Just for curiosity, I had a look at Fred's link. As one might guess, it's a list of one-sided frighten-the-kids posts about islam being the great satan. Pretty much what you would expect on a opposing islamist site - in reverse.

For example, a post based on an MSNBC report from Kari Huus an expert on, according to MSNBC: China, Taiwan and Singapore; so, uniquely qualified to discuss muslims in America then. She quotes Charles Kurzman, a professor of sociology at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill...

¦quot;One trend is heightened alarm and suspicion on the part of people concerned about domestic security,¦quot; he said. ¦quot;The other trend is increased assertiveness and political activism on the part of Muslim Americans.¦quot;

Yes, I like apples too. But, my wife prefers Chanel.
19:20 May 16, 2011 by whpmgr
The world of Intel is very interconnected. You cant tell me that the BND was totally upset about the killing. It is almost election time in Germany and a great many people are worried about the vote. If this happened when no one was politicing I doubt anyone would have made a public statement.

1. You never know where a crumb of information comes from and how much value it may have. If you shut the doors of cooperation, then you may lose that one piece you need to put an entire story together. EVen if the government shuts down official communication, there is enough cooperation below the table with each service to give pertinenet data out to each service/country's Intel service.

These people who are jihadists are illegal combatants. They are not uniformed and organized in a legal way and as such, are not entitled to the laws that protect legal combatants. In as much as anyone cares, each country has a legal right to act in its own interests and must only face the consequences of the actions they take if the offended sovereign nation cares. The international court, for example, going after Quadafy duck, has no standing unless many countries give it such. So when soemone was trying to get Bush arrested for war crimes, they failed to understand the US doesnt give the authority to the court to try its president, and until the us is beaten down and taken, it will not have to.

So, 1 German citizen was not saved and an entire country goes to political/diplomatic war against the US for killing him, they must next look at where the missle parts were made and bring those companies and countries into the fray also. I think there are German parts in the very missile that killed him so, Merkel must stand trial also for providing aid to the drone people.

In the end, it is all politics, and politics are local. no one really cares in germany about this guy unless they wish to make a political statement and use his death to their benefit. The best thing for the world is that one less terrorist is here, and if we got the only innocent person in that camp, and if he were a mole from the BND, oh well, time to recruit another one.

fred finger and all of the rest, yoru lives are now much better for standing up to your cause in this unknown paper...or are they? LMFAO
19:24 May 16, 2011 by FredFinger
Frighten the kids? There are a lot of professionals who are very concerned. Do you suppose the victims of the Madrid and London bombings were frightened before they died or were they oblivious as you are to the rising tide of Islamic jihad? Willful ignorance can exact an awful price, one which I hope you never have to pay.
19:26 May 16, 2011 by wenddiver
I oersonally am sick to death of what is passing for a erman Government now days.

We should cut them off. We lost 3,000 innocent civilians on 911, where did the cell that killed them come from-GERMANY you ignorant, inefficient, pretend government.

Slap a tarrif on everything made in Germany they sell here, so high that it will pay for this war and the hunting down and killing of every terrorists these no minds ever gave a passport to.

Take out any city providing terrorist hide outs and not cooperating with erradicating them with Strategic Bombers.

Merkel- not a friend or an Allie. Don't invite her to conferences, take the embassys back, and give it to the EU, don't recognize them in any way, shape or form. No passports, no selling cars, nothing, until this war is over.

Sue any idiot that says the US provided Bin Ladin or the Talliban support in court for slander. That's right all you Soviet Parrots, show us where money went to bin Ladin??? Oh, that's right you mixed up the Mujahadin the US supported and the Al Queda thugs that took power away from the Mujahadean after the US left.

The EU, if you are all part of one nation, then you are entitled to one seat in the UN, period. The US has one seat, not 50. Each Russian Republic is not represented, just the Russian Federation, so why do we have all the seats for countries that are now one country?? Give back the embassys.

We need to find the element in Germany that supports Democracy and start supporting them against this hag two faced government that neither represents Germany or Democracy, ut is a product of the Allied Occupation forces.

These Judges need to be put on the no fly list, these are the pukes that did nothing to stop the NAZIS or the STASI, so they can shut their inorant mouths now. Where were the German Judges when Germany attacked little Denmark, or Norway or Greece?

Supporting a terrorist is the lowest thing a country can do, any country doing so has no place in the ranks of the democracies and the governments and people supporting them should be considered wild animals to be hunted down.

A lot of American's of German decent stopped buying German products prior to America's entry into the Second World War. Maybe it is time to go there again, if the current government continues to support terrorists.
22:17 May 16, 2011 by whpmgr
wenddiver: I am retired military, I have fought for my country and know about what I am going to say. I have worked at very high levels of the Military heirarchy in Europe. SO, enough about qualifications, or what have you, I could be lying but: Many people do not think that the US is doing right. I think we are and that we should do more, but keep in mind that when we are just one of 192 COuntries/states represented in teh UN. The UN was the only way the little guy could try to stand up to one of the big 5 and it is often thought that we americans are terrorists. So when you talk like you do with such a broad brush, I want you to think about that. If 120 members think we are the bad guys, whether they have a vote or not, who is to say they are wrong in the average mind of the world citizen? So tone down and make specific arguments that make good sense.

I like your point about the EU and the UN. That is defensable. They claim to be one nation, so why do they get so many seats? Of course the answer, from their point of view, is that they are sovereign states, adn as such are entitled to the seats. But, they get to have it both ways. A large economic entity -THE EU, and then sovereignty when they like. They can pull out of the EU at any time, so they may not really be like our states in that sense.

We can go back and reference NAZIs and WWII but that is so long ago, we are almost out of anyone left that was in charge during those tiems. MOst likely you will find that the only ones left were the ones who were too young to lead anything larger than a squad or battalion since they would have been too young to hold a high position. And in the Government sector, anyone who was a leader of the society was much older and already leading society- they are pretty much all gone.
23:07 May 16, 2011 by ChrisRea
whpmgr, you raised good points and I hope wenddiver understands them.

Even if topic goes a bit further away from the actual article, I will shortly explain what EU is: an economic and political partnership between 27 democratic European countries. So EU is not a country, not a federation, not a nation. Basically couple of countries said that they trust the others, agreed to make it easier to travel and trade among them and also to establish some standards that will make it easier to co-operate. So EU is a more evolved regional trade agreement (like NAFTA). As you would not expect contries of NAFTA to be represented in the UN by a single seat, so all EU countries have their own representation. If things are still not clear, I would be happy to answer questions and/or recommend some relevant websites.
08:38 May 17, 2011 by Robert Shule
The U.S. government is out of hand. Its "anti-terrorism" policies amount to extra-judicial execution; something better known for mafias to do. It is great to learn that Germany is finally taking a stand against it all. Hopefully, Germany's action is a step toward bringing the order of law and principle principle back into our world.
09:28 May 17, 2011 by michael4096
@Fred - another bomb in Ireland yesterday

"Catholics More Assertive, Britons Increasingly Afraid"

This is how your recommended website portrays events. It is designed to increase fear and hate. So, yes, I mean frighten the kids. There are things for concern and things that may be frightening but web sites like yours don't do anything but increase danger - but, probably make lot of cash doing so.
09:42 May 17, 2011 by LiberalGuy

Your forgetting the thousands of westerners living in Dubai, UAE, Indonesia (it has had some terriost attacks but for a country of it's size there should be a whole lot more if Islam was as intolerant as you say) Maylasia. I hardly see the 4% being a great threat to Germany. Unless that helpful guy at the kebab shop is really poisioning me slowly. hmmmm....
09:58 May 17, 2011 by erkan
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
12:38 May 17, 2011 by FredFinger
@ michael4096

sites like jihadwatch.org don't increase the danger, they educate people about the danger that exists. If you want to deny the extent of the problem the rest of us can only shake our heads.
14:11 May 17, 2011 by michael4096
At last I see the light! All these years of thinking that the world I was watching was real; that all the people I spoke with were worth listening to. I've spent so long thinking that observation is the best education. But, now I understand that the *real* truth can only be found on this website.

Thank you, Fred. You missed your vocation. You should be a preacher.
14:24 May 17, 2011 by FredFinger
No michael4096, the world you thought you were watching is one you constructed through the rose tinted glasses you elect to wear. The real world is still out there for you to discover. May you never come into contact with the real world thru unpleasant experiences like the one victims of 9/11 suffered. The awakening can be quite traumatic.
16:01 May 17, 2011 by michael4096
Thank you so much for your concern, Fred, you never know. However, like everybody else on the planet, I have, statistically, far, far more chance of becoming collateral damage resulting from some anti-terrorist action than I have of being a terrorist's victim.

Which brings us neatly back to faceless men dropping bombs on people on suspicion that they may, one day, do something wrong.
16:18 May 17, 2011 by FredFinger
They've already done something wrong michael4069, they've murdered thousands of their own countrymen with suicide vests and IUDs and executions. But don't worry, you're in no danger if you mind your own business in germany and pretend its not happening. Or are you?
18:36 May 17, 2011 by michael4096
Murdering thousands with IUDs sounds painful :-)

"They" may be guilty of crimes. We will probably never know. It isn't the issue. The issue is: who is accountable for blasting him?

With bin Laden we know who was accountable. OBL was murdered as a political expediant by vigilanties - lets not get sentimental about justice and brave soldiers - and, it was a decision I happen to agree with. Obama was accountable, he ensured that it was the right guy and that it was the least painful way for all. Fair enough.

These other cases are different. Nobody is held to account. There is no oversight. Just shadows with high-tech toys playing god on the basis of rumours.
20:23 May 17, 2011 by Jack Kerouac
XFRYCHIEF: "Obviously, the best thing is to become a German citizen before you become a terrorist so you have the German government protecting you."

Sounds about right!
20:32 May 17, 2011 by whpmgr
Michael: There are times I agree with you and others I do not. And in this article no less...LOFL. So: the US is not a murderous bunch of Bastards. Also, your chances of dying in as collateral damage on an anti Terrorist raid/action only have a chance of coming true if you are where the terrorist is. You have a greater chance of dying in a terrorist attack now, since the Death of OBL, but hey, if everyone watches out for each other, and no one turns a blind eye to suspicious things, we won't have any of those. Sure, there will be more false alarms than real ones, but we will have 99% success.

Don't play with fire and you don¦#39;t get burnt. Stay away from the bad guys and you wont die. The US, the most powerful nation (Militarily) has decided that Jihadists and Islamic terrorists are bad guys. They have declared open season and the US Armed forces and Intelligence services have a hunting license with no limits. We have made it clear that we know not all Muslims are terrorists. We have made it abundantly clear that if your American Mosque is the center of terrorist planning, your mosque will have hell open up on it as far as investigations, and everything will be looked at through a microscope. So, if you are an American (country first) and Muslim, you have an obligation to tell the authorities about suspicious activities. Even if it happens in your church. If you associate with known bad guys, or someone under suspicion, you need to be aware you may find yourself dead. Chose your associates and friends and family wisely

I repeat: If you are not uniformed, and you are not part of an organized military organization belonging to a state, you are not a legal combatant. If you are tortured, killed, maimed, hurt, uprooted and taken in the dead of night to a secret place where terrible things can go wrong for you, too damned bad. You chose the wrong side. I refuse to let my son be held hostage to the bad guys.

I am open in most ways, but there are bad guys everywhere and these guys, who are fighting their good fight in the name of Allah or whomever have chosen to go against me and my country. Who said it: My country right or wrong, if right to stay right, and if wrong to put right. America will take a straighter path than most other nations. I think the same of the UK, the Germans, the Swedish, the Dutch, not so much the French (but they try hard, if their government and white flags would get out of the way). We have built and made this world. Michael you are the product of it. Move to Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Turkey, any of the ¦quot;stans¦quot;, anywhere in Africa, Libya, you have many choices. Hell, go over to talk with your friend Hugo Chavez, and see what he really thinks of you. Protect what you have and what we stand for, with all of the mistakes we make, we are still a damned sight better by 1000 times than any of the places mentioned above.
22:44 May 17, 2011 by michael4096
@whpmgr - just for the record, I don't consider Americans any more murderous than any other nationality. Most countries I've been in, people have tended to be much the same including the US and a few of the middle eastern countries, one you mentioned some you didn't.

In particular, your concern for family and 'my country, right or wrong' can be found in just about every environment I've been in. Though, in some it's 'my belief, right, or wrong'. And, therein lies a problem. Everything you say could just as easily be said by muslim with America swapped for islam. Everything the same - only which are the good guys and which the bad switched around.

Sure, the US has more fire-power than the rest of the world put together. So, yes, everybody else must just do as they are told. Yes, you want to snatch people off the streets and torture them because they are bad guys, who's to stop you? Of course you make mistakes, we all make mistakes, but most really are bad guys so that is ok then. But, its not ok. You are protecting your family, but all those mistakes have family too. The people deciding life or death of others are human, they have their bad days and frustrations - whether they are planting a bomb or have their finger on bomb release - they tell themselves its all for a noble cause, but is it?

Not so long ago, all Germans were the evil ones. Overnight it that stopped and the communists replaced them in the evil lists. Now its the muslims. Tomorrow, it will be someone else. Do you really think that people change overnight just because the stop being America's enemy of the day?

I don't believe Americans are murderous. I want oversight and accountability because I think they are as human as everybody else.
23:43 May 17, 2011 by FredFinger
Its natural to want oversight and accountability over everything in life Michael4096 but it ain't gonna happen in this instance. The US has absorbed most of the casualties in this war (other than the afghans and Iraqi terrorist victims themselves) so don't try to lecture America about fighting it. Aren't we lucky that in this one might and right are on the same side.
23:52 May 17, 2011 by Zbig
Transatlantic community of values? There is doubt about reading these comments. Americans asking the question: why do they hate us?, will find the answer inter alia in these comments. They are a disgrace to the founding fathers
02:00 May 18, 2011 by FredFinger
Um, Zbig... we are fully aware why "they" hate us - the US is big and successful and stands for democracy and they resent it. The Founding Fathers would be extremely proud of the way the US has prospered and supported its friends and the rule of law.
02:20 May 18, 2011 by rwk
Germany perhaps fails to realize how much it has to lose to these terrorists. It fails to realize that the USA has, for better or worse, taken on the huge expense of this war and asks very little of its allies in return. Sure, mistakes have been made by the US and will continue to be. America is pretty good about admitting its mistakes and trying to fix them (maybe because it has so much experience with making mistakes). Drones and precision strikes are quite an advance in minimizing collateral damage. This needs to be recognized and supported.
13:35 May 18, 2011 by wenddiver
Zbig- Ever hear the Marine Corps Hym? "From the Halls of Mountezuma to the shores of Triploi"

For your info that celebrates the US buildung a small Navy and sending the US Marines to attack Arab dirt bags who were seizing US and European ships and enslaving their crews. All the big European Military powers paid ransom and tribute to these Muslim slavers. Our founders didn't, we sent a small band of US Marines to overthrow their government and kill the slavers. US Marine Officers wear a Mameluke style sword to this day to commemorate the killing of these evil men. No trials, warrants or pukey liberal Judges were need to accomplish this. Suggest you look up the names Patrick O'Banum and Stephen Decature. We have never needed the approval of other countries to kill murders or terrorists, our Founding athers showed all of Europe how to deal with such slime.
14:57 May 18, 2011 by FredFinger
Well said wenddiver
13:26 May 19, 2011 by wenddiver
Thanks Fredfinger, it's amazing the leftist history re-writes some people soak up in school without ever looking at an original document from the time period. I recently had this argument with a Liberal college Professor and he didn't even realize that the President's involved were:

George Washington (the father of the Country)who advocated building the small Navy to attack the pirates in Libiya, Morroco and Algiers.

James Madison (Father of our Constitution) launched the First undeclared war against the terrorists known as the Barbary Pirates.

Thomas Jefferson (Writer of the Declaration of Independence) sent the Navy and Marines back to finish them off when they didn't learn from the first undeclared war.

The tree Greatest Founding Father's fought these terrorists, with no Declaration of War from Congress, no Arrest Warrants, no trials in US Court and no excuses for killing terrorists and slavers, no pukey Liberal Attorney's period.

How did the non-terrorist nations react, Great Britain's Lord Nelson stated that Stephen Decatures attack might be the "Greatest act of the Age". The terrorists and Murders were not as impressed, but we got our people back eventually.
17:03 May 19, 2011 by Thorsten
Nobody cares about the German islamist. But when the BND does not want him to get killed, the CIA should not kill him without even the BND. Maybe the BND hoped to get additional information and now he is dead, because they informed the Americans..

Btw. you guys should stop being so afraid of these terrorists. You spend way to much money on these morons.

Terrorism is only a method, the real issue is enlightment, atheism, critical debate vs. Islam.
00:32 May 20, 2011 by wenddiver

Terrorism is only a method, the real issue is enlightment, atheism, critical debate vs. Islam.

We've done our bit to convince them, when a Hellfire missile blows your pajama clad, raghead carcus through the side of your own mud hut with a 2,000 degree fireball, the US has made it's point in the critical debate.

You spend way to much money on these morons.

Agreed, but the satisfaction of killing these creeps is worth it.


Ever notice how strong it made Socialist France? We're not them. He who can not see the hand of God in the sucess of these 13 little Colonies we call the US is blind Sir. The God of your Grandfather is our real might, not the Military.
17:41 May 20, 2011 by MarshaLynn
Ah, I see. Europe again kowtowing to the radical Islamists within its midst. Maybe we should remember that the next time Germany needs our help to save its behind. Personally, I wish all the progressives here in the USA would vacate immediately and move to Europe. Then we will conduct this nation with strength and common sense, minus all the liberal idiocy. Maybe we might even survive, as opposed to the addle-brained progressives of Europe who will eventually assure their own destruction.
22:53 May 20, 2011 by electric38
Lets not forget that these acts are driven by the need to protect oil pricing. Build another solar panel every time you see an energy related death.

Build another wind generator every time the price of oil goes up.

Make sure the rooftops of each citizen is allowed to participate so the coming electric car market smoothly flows into the solar charging.

The military suppliers and weapons manufacturers have a huge interest and control key politicians and votes for more of the same to occur.

The easier way to fight their cause is to build an excess of renewable energy.

This allows a certain amount of freedom from, among other things.

1-The banks. The equivalent of your electric bill in your pocket -not the oil/utility company. 2- The oil companies rising costs. 3- Military expense to protect oil interests -reduced if they no longer are a big player in the energy market.4-Pollution. 5- Advancing toward a more beneficial future in jobs and economic growth.
16:59 May 21, 2011 by Curmudgeon
In reading the article, I see a number of labels, and unproved allegations. What is an "Islamist camp" and what "military training" did he receive?

There are more than 180 military schools in the US that cater to educate children ages 12 - 18 by using, in part, military training. The children in boarded in these schools. Do these qualify as "camps"? Do they qualify as "training grounds for terrorists" if any of these children go on to join the CIA or Special forces in the US military? Do these schools become legitimate military targets if they have trained "terrorists"?

Thousands of Americans and Canadians went to Spain to join the communists fighting against Franco. The communists killed unarmed women, children, old men, as well as priests and nuns. These people were hailed as "heroes", yet young people going to Iraq, Afghanistan, or Pakistan to fight against those foreigners who have laid waste to those countries are called "terrorists".

I do not condone terrorism or wanton violence. All wars are economic wars, and the "War of Terror" is no different. All you need to know about what is going on in the world is found in the "Policy For the New American Century" and "Which Road to Persia". It's all about the elite controlling the world.

Fortunately, people like Muad¦#39;Dib (A J Hill) and the late Joe Vialls have looked at "terror" attacks and demonstrated that there is government complicity through their secret service agencies.

US/Anglo foreign policy is and has been to terrorize other countries by "bombing them back to the stone age". This has been so for more than 70 years. What is going on today in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan is merely an extension of that foreign policy.

Do Germans, who, in past, suffered horrific losses due to that foreign policy, really want to be part of it now?
02:46 May 23, 2011 by wenddiver
Oh look a Terrorist is planning a bombing by your child's school or your Husbands work, but the US didn't figure it out in time, because Germany witheld the information to protect Germany.

So much for being smart.
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