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Germany's cowardly foreign policy

The Local · 21 Mar 2011, 14:20

Published: 21 Mar 2011 14:20 GMT+01:00

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The international community spent three weeks squabbling over whether to impose a no-fly zone over Libya. During these three weeks, Muammar Qaddafi bombed his own people and managed to retake most rebel-held territory in the North African country.

Then, when it was nearly too late, the United Nations Security Council agreed a no-fly zone and authorized military intervention last Thursday. But at least the international community showed that it is not totally indifferent to such horrific human rights abuses.

And this should not be taken for granted. In many countries, like Sudan, Congo, Iran, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and China, the world prefers to watch and do nothing rather than stand up for what is right.

Of course, to be honest, the United Nations probably could not have moved much faster. The support of the Arab League was crucial for the no-fly resolution and its enforcement, and it prevaricated for a long time before finally coming out in favour of military intervention in Libya.

The German government, on the other hand, took a more cowardly route. It abstained in the Security Council vote, aligning itself with the likes of Russia and China.

Such an irresponsible move will have consequences, and not only for the reputation of Germany among those protesting and dying for freedom in the Arab world. Our European partners will also remember this the next time Germany presses for a permanent seat on the UN Security Council and demands more international influence.

Some of the concerns that German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle has voiced against this military intervention are certainly valid. And the consequences of attacks on Qaddafi’s forces could indeed be dramatic.

The international community risks being dragged into a bloody civil war. It will have to destroy Libya's air defence systems to protect its pilots. So what happens if Qaddafi stations his artillery in school playgrounds? What about civilian casualties? And how will the West react if the rebels attack civilians loyal to Qaddafi?

The current conflict in Libya could become a long and dirty war. This is not to argue against a Western intervention with Arab participation, but the risks have to be acknowledged. Hardly any supporters of military intervention are doing that at the moment, and it's dishonest.

But the German government's abstention is downright cowardly, particularly because there is a strong suspicion that domestic political concerns influenced the decision. If Germany had voted in favour of the military strikes against Qaddafi in the Security Council, then German participation would have been virtually unavoidable.

With important state elections looming, Chancellor Angela Merkel's centre-right wanted to avoid this at all costs, because a majority of Germans oppose military engagements abroad. However, a responsible foreign policy cannot be guided by such considerations.

Story continues below…

If Westerwelle is now claiming that Germany cannot fight against oppression everywhere in the world, then he has irrevocably cheapened his argument. In that case, no military intervention – including Berlin’s current participation in Afghanistan – can be justified.

This commentary was published with the kind permission of ZEIT ONLINE, where it originally appeared in German. Translation by The Local.

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

17:22 March 21, 2011 by derExDeutsche
So in order to be ' not cowardly' by your definition, in case of any political uprising, Germany should pick a side and join the fray?

WHat happend to the Germany where 'Bush was the worst person on the face of the planet...'?

How are we on to ' Germany needs invade, depose and kill Quadaffi'? Is Germany in the business of Democracy building, now? were there any WMDs? or is Repelling a revolution a crime now?

it sounds more like a bunch of crusaders to me.
17:49 March 21, 2011 by red7
the other side are not cowards but also have reasons behind:

So can we really trust Nicolas Sarkozy?

18:32 March 21, 2011 by DrStrangelove
"...Chancellor Angela Merkel's centre-right wanted to avoid this at all costs, because a majority of Germans oppose military engagements abroad."

Well a democratically elected government following the views of the voters - we can't have that, of course! Much better to fight the good fight, or a bad one, anything really to avoid being considered cowardly by the armchair strategists of the press.

The Bundeswehr can't find enough volunteers even now. What do you think would happen if Berlin lets itself be dragged into another useless war? Sooner or later, no one would be left to fight. Berlin has no choice but to pick its fights very very carefully if it wants to avoid a crash landing.

It is more courageous to do the right thing and be called a coward, than to do the wrong thing in order to avoid public shaming.
19:04 March 21, 2011 by xx.weirich.xx
Whhy should OUR civilians die for a conflict in a region where people just can't help but kill each other? Good God, all these Mid Easterners seem able to do is fight and fight and fight. Let them fight, and let us take care of our OWN problems.

And anyway, they don't seem too anxious to help us out in our problems, so why should we care about theirs? They have nothing but criticism for us.

I thought we were trying to AVOID war. But no, looks like now we're all for it again...
19:05 March 21, 2011 by auslanderus
I feel sorry for Germany again when it failed to stand up with the USA to vote for a no fly zone. It did not mean they had to send troops or planes, just to say enough is enough in Libia. People's lives were at stake or is that not important?
19:13 March 21, 2011 by andersonz
to abstain requires courage too, not less so for Germany, while its allies of NATO and partners in EU, such as France, UK seem to be crazy about bombing Libya and do another regime change.

the question remains that how many "civilians" they would kill to protect "civilians", who carry AK-47s, anti aircraft guns, etc.

might doesn't make right.

as leader of a very respectable country Germany, make the right decision, that stands the test of time, is more important and understandably more difficult than the decision's popularity in Germany or outside Germany.
19:32 March 21, 2011 by wood artist
I can't speak to how the typical "German in the street" sees these actions, and obviously they are seen differently by people and governments, but I don't hear much from the typical Americans about the decision. It was a given that not everyone would join, so sometimes specifics aren't all that important.

The more interesting reaction here has been the involvement of France. Some say it's because of their colonial history, some say it's because they're trying to re-assert their place as a valid "world power" and some are just baffled. I've hear several comments that suggested they only joined because it was someplace they could likely win.

Who knows? Inside Germany the opinions may be different, but from the outside I'm not hearing much.

00:50 March 22, 2011 by Ramses444
"The international community spent three weeks squabbling over whether to impose a no-fly zone over Libya. During these three weeks, Muammar Qaddafi bombed his own people and managed to retake most rebel-held territory in the North African country."

Yes, Germans couldn't decide whether their invested interests in the dictator were more important to protect, or the human life he threatened to slaughter. Once again, Germany has decided, under the guise, that such international involvements smacks of 'colonialism' or 'crusader-ship', to allow mass-murder of a civilian population, to be on the Tages Menu!

I personally find this present German government to be extremely irresponsible and reprehensible by its inaction and it schizophrenic behavior, throughout this entire matter.

As a former commentator stated... "It did not mean they had to send troops or planes, just to say enough is enough in Libya. People's lives were at stake or is that not important?"

It is now clear to us, what's most import to Germany!
01:04 March 22, 2011 by Frenemy
@Ramses444: in light of ur screen name, you are obviously not a history scholar.... (otherwise you would see the irony in your comments) ;-p
03:27 March 22, 2011 by olog-hai
Sounds to me like another case of Germany manipulating its allies to do its fighting. Helmut Kohl cowed the UN when he recognized Slovenia and Croatia; and that was the very thing that triggered the war in Bosnia, with Clinton being hoodwinked into doing their fighting. Schröder didn't like Bush going into Iraq only because of German interests being threatened; no other reason. How big are the ambitions of Germany's elites? Germany already controls the entire European Union, they've still got a tight grip on their "former" African colonies, the erstwhile defense minister succeeded in overturning one of the major barriers to the recreation of the infamous "state within a state" when he got conscription abolished . . . where is all of this leading?
09:04 March 22, 2011 by catjones
Cowards? Probably. Cheap? No doubt. Germany wants the glory of a miracle economy and throwing money at a cause for freedom doesn't help that image.

The Germans were the first to abandon Japan. We'll never know how many lives could have been saved.

What goes around, comes around.
10:35 March 22, 2011 by tallady
Some want to paint germany as courageous...what a stretch...

As Humanitarians,and a nation concerned about others ,the track record is not there,,

With all the wealth Germany has been boosting lately ,and being the worlds 3rd largest arms exporter ,one would think that having a capable and adequate military would be no problem.

Germany often talks the talk,but rarely if ever walks the walk.
11:37 March 22, 2011 by mhdamro
1... Civilians in Libya demonstrated peacfully agains the qaddafi who ruled for 40 years.

2... qaddafi responded by shooting on civilians by using AK47 and Anti aricraft guns ( i.e: anti aircraft guns shot not on planes .. but on women and children and ppl)

3. the army saw this, couldnt but to defect and align with the ppl, along with most of the embassadors and ministers in qaddafi's own government.

4. Qaddafi sends mercenaries from Chad and Mali who are paid 1000 USD per day to kill his own ppl.

5. Qaddafi threatens to "Cleanse" everyhome and every person in bengazi and other cities (his own words).

6. civilans started to train using weapons ( AK 47 and some weapons left over by the soldiers who couldnt handle it and fled the field) to defend themeselves against qaddafi (most of them are teachers, doctors, and lawers .. ) ..

7. qaddafi sends mercinaries to cities of zawyeh, zintan . and other cities ... killed no less than 2000 ppl as former defected soldiers witnessed

8. Two pilots defect with their Merage jets after they got orders from qaddafi to bomb peacfull civilian demonstrations ... "note: there were no rebels at that time ..!!! only civilians ...

Now tell me ... if you were in this situation .. will you just stay at home while they come to kill you and your wife and your kids ....!!!!!

another thing ... i guess its with in the germans nature to stand and watch while others are getting killed.. this happend during the 2nd world war when jews were killed ... and happens everyday in the train stations .... talk about CIVIL COURAGE .... i guess the german government needs a dose of that ... !!!!!
12:21 March 22, 2011 by Englishted
"The German government, on the other hand, took a more cowardly route. It abstained in the Security Council vote, aligning itself with the likes of Russia and China."

He is the answer :

"Russia's bid to build a rival to a US-backed gas pipeline to Europe received a major boost this week when the project was joined by the hydrocarbon subsidiary of the German powerhouse BASF."
13:14 March 22, 2011 by peter douglas
This clever Germans have done it once again they calculated and saw what the 3 bankrupt countries couldn,t .in present day you just don,t wake up one morning and start bombing another country without concrete intellegence and especially if its one exporting oil.im sure Germany would have done it if china,Brazil ,india and Russia were in.For sarkozy its personal the guy needs something to put him in the lime light because he is so politically finished at home.for cameron its about the Blair phobia and for Obama arm twisted.as the 3 prepare to dig in for along time police work in libya hope there pockets are lined up for the same,because the majority of people in this countries are not ready to allow more of their taxes to be used to separate a tribal war.
14:18 March 22, 2011 by tdog1964
What has happened to Germany. A once proud country is afraid to take its place among Europe's elite.Why are the politicans timid? Are thry afraid to be compared to ther Third Reich?
15:00 March 22, 2011 by Wim van Couveren
It looks like that 'The Local' is taking definite sides here only re- publishing aritcles critical of the German governments stand.

While the paper is welcome to publish what it wants readers are going to think you are no longer objective. Present both views please - or lose respect and become another BZ tabloid.

Again on this issue under discussion it as becoming more obvious everyday and every hour that the decision to NOT participate in the folly of Mess Sarkozy, Cameron & Harper by this German government was not only the correct one but a wise one.

To hide behind the word 'cowardly' - as if to oppose aggressive wars was somehow 'cowardly'?

It is in fact courageous to stand up for principals and not go with the crowd - in this case a crowd of stupid losers!
15:18 March 22, 2011 by rugbycoach
The arguement that Libyans should be left alone to kill themselves is null and void in a socially responsible state, it is akin to saying that on your own streets people should be left to starve and take care of themselves...The Libyan intervention is not a 'war' but an action targetted at saving covilian lives from a kind of genocide. Germany as a responsible social state has a duty to protect those less fortunate Libyan citizens from attack of a regime that is committing a form of genocide and should hang their head in shame at their abstension of duty at the UN Security council. To be a respected player on the world stage sometimes words have to be backed up by action and committment, Germany will never earn a place as a world leading power if they do not sometimes make a stand on issues like this. They should resign from the Un Security council forthwith and allow a country which has the moral fibre to take hard decisions to take their place. They lobbied very hard for a permanent place which it has been now proved, to be not capable of holding that place.
16:07 March 22, 2011 by HANNIBAL-BARCA
That this article is pro-western imperialism shill, is obvious to objective students of history. It's argument is based on "name calling" rather than empirical and objective reasoning. A few key points should be noted.

1. The U.N. mandated "no fly zone" doesn't enjoy the support of the international community.

a. The African Union doesn't support it and Libya is first and foremost an African country.

2. That the aim of the U.N. mandate is to "protect the civilians" is hardly credible at best and more than likely a down right lie. This highly selective intervention is based on the Arab dislike of Col. Ghadafi, and of course the immense light sweet crude which powers Europe.

3. Ostensibly, words are vacuous and so called international treaties meaningless. Libya is or was a Sovereign Nation. Essentially the meaning of which is now lost to the U.N.

4. The so called civilian population or rebel group if you will, has now been recognized by France as de jure a sovereign. This same rebel group is guaranteeing future oil deliveries. This same rebel group is in fact guilty of a pogrom against the indigenous Black Libyans apparently indifferent to their natural rights.

5. This action could have been prevented if China, Germany or Russia had simply vetoed the vote. So in this objective light indeed they are all cowards for not preventing this madness!
17:00 March 22, 2011 by lovemymac&cheez
@ xx.weirich.xx "Whhy should OUR civilians die for a conflict in a region where people just can't help but kill each other? Good God, all these Mid Easterners seem able to do is fight and fight and fight. Let them fight, and let us take care of our OWN problems.And anyway, they don't seem too anxious to help us out in our problems, so why should we care about theirs? They have nothing but criticism for us."

Are you German?

Because if you are... I can just imagine your words said by Americans in 1945, at the time the world troubles came from somewhere else! "why should we care about their problems? let them rebuild that infertile land of theirs on their own. They only have criticisms for us".

Wait... there WAS a Marshall plan with American money... there WERE good willing Americans coming over to help you... and thank God they did otherwise you would had not known what a banana was until 1990 just like your Ossies that you disdain so much.

And thank God the Turks and Italians came over to help you as well to rebuild this place because otherwise... you would not be very different from your Eastern neighbors.

Krauts... very ungrateful and forgetful of the past! You would be NOTHING without the help of other nations of solidarity, so quit being so nasty, selfish and self- righteous.

MacNCheez sounds goooooooood.
00:14 March 23, 2011 by TheOkie
I have read a few comments about the U.S. and I would just like to say that most Americans (aleast the younger ones) really don't want to get to involved. The general few point in the last couple of years is that we don't want to get involved in other counties affairs. Frankly we don't have the money to help Libya, what with it all belonging to china.
03:58 March 23, 2011 by Redfeather
I don't think that Germany made a cowardly or bad decision. Gaddafi is listed as a King in the KJV code. A president, etc. does not hold that same title with GOD. It may be sad for the nations that raced in for the oil in the long run. Germany acted on knowledge and heart felt decision, that is the best.
04:21 March 23, 2011 by willowsdad
Yes, how terrible for Germany to not want to participate in the new American tradition of "humanitarian bombing" (George Orwell would be so proud!) in which we kill the people we claim to be helping. So much nicer to have the bombs of a democracy fall on your city than those of a dictator.
19:05 March 23, 2011 by xx.weirich.xx
@ lovemymac&cheez

No, American.

I was 6 on September 11, 2001. Not something I remember too well, but I do recall seeing the teachers panicking and planes flying into buildings which then fell down to the ground. Iraq was invaded I believe two years later, and now we're finally starting to realize that involvement in the Mid East might not have been such a good idea after all. I have a cousin in the Army, and he and all of the guys he works with agree that we're fighting a losing battle- those people will NEVER get over their taste to kill people just for disagreeing with them.

This war has not been too bad- not bad at all compared with the World Wars. However, since I was old enough to know what was happening in the world around me, there has been nothing but reports of bombings in the Mid East, new wars, dictators, so and so getting nuclear weapons or WMDs and such. Not something that I have enjoyed very much, or the people I live with/around, as well as my classmates. We're doing nothing but wasting our time and money over there, and all basically for oil. Why? Why should my cousin- or any citizens of any country involved in the Mid East right now- give up their citizens for a lost cause? Do you guys just not see how disdainful those countries are of us and our "evil Western culture?"

And by the way, I don't think it's fair for you to compare what I said to what Americans may have thought about Germany in 1945. Keep in mind, in 1945 the war had just ended. We're not at war with Libya, and we didn't just get out of one.

Maybe that'll change though. I read that Qaddafi vowed a long war against the Weest for intervening. I rest my case.
19:30 March 23, 2011 by TRJ
Lots of confused statements here. Where did it come in to play that intervening is about oil? Gaddafi is a capitalist's dream. He already deals with the West and the West has invested heavily. All contracts with interests that are not native to Libya go through him and all rules of protection for markets are for sale. He is perfect for western interests who long ago accepted that he engaged in murder and assissination to hold power and exact revenge. Anyone who thinks this is about oil doesn't understand what was already in place before the demonstrations. It is the advent of the demonstrations that puts billions of Western dollars (euros) at risk. Therefore, it appears that the bombing to defend rebel positions only serves to exascerbate the risk to western investments. Therefore, statements about "the oil" and "imperialist western" interests just don't have a basis in reality.

As for Germany's abstention, I think they are entitled to stand out of the fray if involvement would upset otherwise delicate sensibilities they may hold in this regard. It also means, however, that having a seat on the UN Security Council is likely misplaced. Offering up the old "the dog ate my homework" excuse by not choosing a side when it comes to action against genocide tells the world all it needs to know about notions of Germany leading by example.
01:08 March 24, 2011 by ronasch
The victorious allies in 1945 wanted a pacifist Germany, but now that they have they are unhappy again. Obama may face impeachment over this illegal war and the English and French have no money to pay for it. Gaddafi will stay and the tribal warfare wil go on and on. There is no viable alternative to Gaddafi. The English used to pit one against they other and thus control huge countries such as India, but seem to have really dumbed own and lets face the English do not call the USA "The know nothing nation without cause" The Yanks do not understand that there are many cultures and viewpoints out there.
03:21 March 24, 2011 by Stepp
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
14:48 March 24, 2011 by AirForceGuy
The US and Britain don't 'want' to go to war. They do so to protect OTHER people from their tyrant leaders and persecution because thay can't do it on their own. They think it is the 'right' or 'moral' thing to do. The German government just doesn't care about these things or about anything but their own economy.
13:12 March 25, 2011 by Tadil
Obviously there are idots in the forsaking world that don't under the US constitution and how it relates to the President of the United States and War Powers Act. I suggest you stay in your own frickin sand box and play with your schnitzel like the Deutchland cowards. The Yanks fully understand, why we even care is beyond me. Frankly it it was my choice I'd let all you frickin Europeans fend for yourself. Cut off all foreign aid to countries unfriendly to USA and countries that have stronger currency than the dollar. Let us hit them where its really going to hurt.
16:33 March 25, 2011 by Bruno53
People seem to forget Germany's ugly history of two lost world wars, Nazi megalomaniatical period and genocide of Jews and others. I can PERFECTLY understand Germany's today's attitude to this "war" [or foreign adventure] in Libya.
17:03 March 25, 2011 by dr.makni49
Markus Horeld views are extensively flawed. If he would have written that Germany has failed to follow like a mountain mule, perhaps he was on dot. The writers passion appears clearly dented by his latent desire to see some ones pride not demolished if Libyan leader was to be lynched.

What he fails to see that if the green light is extended to major powers to strike the sovereign states at will, then the world polarization would intensify further. Even now partisan attitude is visible. For instance why US and allies did not bomb Uzbekistan once its leadership was massacring own people in Andejan valley. Why US/NATO watched helplessly when Georgia initiated military action against own people in South Ossetia and Abkhazia? If Georgia was justified, why the allies did not defend Georgia against Russia that attacked it and could reach easily their capital,Tbilisi. Why allies do not secure no fly zone when Chechen are being bombed and massacred for decades by Russia? So the point is that such an attempt to selectively police the world would lead US and allies nowhere what ever the pretext. The time would tell that Germany stand is realistic and on principle.

What MK concludes suspiciously, is much close to reality,"

If Westerwelle is now claiming that Germany cannot fight against oppression everywhere in the world, then he has irrevocably cheapened his argument. In that case, no military intervention ­ including Berlin¦#39;s current participation in Afghanistan ­ can be justified".

However, his assumption that Westerwelle has cheapened his arguments holds good in reverse direction, proving that Germany is not a mule to follow but a vibrant and historically mature nation.

Sorry MK...
20:52 March 25, 2011 by Ducano
Germany did the right thing by staying out of this dubious rebellion.Why are the US not doing anything about the plight of the people of Bahrain,Yemen,Saudi Arabia or any of those countries,where the people are sick and tired of their US favored dictators?And why fight in Afghanistan and not in Saudi Arabia,where most of the alledged 'terrorists' came from?When are the US going to give us some proof,that their official story about 9/11 is true?Could it be,that the old European colonialists are trying to regain some of that old colonial glory in all its barbaric aspects?I am no friend of Qaddafi,but he has done more for his people than Mubarak ever intended in his best moments.And why did the US allow the Saudi`s to invade Yemen?Who asked them?Why don`t they quit their own cruel suppression of theit own people?We all know by now,that the UN does the bidding for the NATO countries,that very organization,that lost its purpose on the day the Warsaw Pact fell apart,because it was meant as a counter-force against it and the expansion of communism in Europe.How long are the people of Europe going to cooperate to aid in the US empire-building?Why no helping hand to a most desperate ally,that is struggling against the forces of nature?Why start another was,while the monies for these wars are all borrowed?Does anybody ever wonder,how the USis going to repay their debts?That the rest of the world may be forced to pick up the tab?The US lied its way into Iraq and I dare say Afghanistan as well.The demise of the Roman Empire was caused by the moral rot within.Are we witnessing an historic repeat,because we refuse to learn from our mistakes and in the process force our 'Mother Nature' onto her deathbed because of our insatiable western greed and thist for power?Is this what happens,when Christianity gets its way?Outlaw all religions and peace will follow,because religion always gets used as an excuse and justification for all this carnage.An infinitely just,fair and loving god would never allow all this barbarism on his/her behalf.But how else would the politicians be able to manipulate the emotions of the masses,if it was not for that illusory god?Religions have become a curse on mankind,if indeed they ever had a positive balance.
21:08 March 25, 2011 by Thekla
I applaud Germany's courage and commonsense in avoiding more foreign entanglements. The US has no reason to be there besides light sweet crude. If the humanitarian concerns were really important, they would already be in the Ivory Coast, but their export is cocoa, so no one cares. Does anyone seriously believe the US would have cared about Iraq of they exported broccoli?
05:06 March 26, 2011 by Curmudgeon
In reply to several posts:

- The Allies didn't want a pacifist Germany in 1945, they wanted the destruction of Germans as a people.

- The no-fly zone is illegal as it violates Article 51 of the UN Charter.

- While Gaddaffi may be a less than ideal leader, the fact of the matter is that a part of the country took up arms against the recognized government. If all of the people living on my street took up arms against the government, do you really believe that the government wouldn't use lethal force against us to quell the rebellion?

- The rebellion is not about democracy. The rebels said they wanted Gaddaffi gone. Democracy only became an "issue" after they began to be pushed back.

- Why were so many NATO ships already in the Mediterranean, and why were SAS forces in Libya?

- Why has France recognized the rebels as the legitimate government of Libya when Gaddaffi obviously enjoys significant or majority support? There is no evidence that the rebels enjoy support outside of the Northeast the country.

- This is about oil. It is not necessarily about the money to be made from it, but rather, who controls where it goes. Think China being left out of the picture.

- Because oil and the international banking cartel are intertwined, it is also about control of currency. Libya and Iran do not have privately owned central banks. The central banks are owned by the government, and therefore all government "loans" from the banks are interest free.

Bombing Libyans to be humanitarian is like having intercourse to save virginity.
14:39 March 26, 2011 by Bruno53
Excuse me, Curdmugeon: the Allies wanted "the complete destruction of the German people"? Where in HELL did you read that? In the White People's and Neo Nazi press??? If that was the case, how come the aereal bombing STOP immediately Nazi Germany surrendered on May 7th, 1945?? Can you answer me that? How come Allies allow Germans to rebuild their country after the war, and by the 1950s then West Germany, under Chancellor Adenauer, was becoming an economical "powerhouse", and joined the then European common market, and NATO??? Please DO NOT misinform us. We are WELL read in history. And it was your "hero" Adolf Hitler who pushed Germany into a mass war of genocide [forgotten, or dare to deny it?, the six million Jews and other Nazis murdered in gas chambers?] and Allies FORCED to air firebomb the country. Read your history WELL!!
07:26 March 27, 2011 by dr.makni49
Curmudgeon is right Bruno53. You read history as does the old story teller and not in depth. I wish he replies you.

A small evidence to your foggy focus is that you have spelled his name wrong. He is Curmudgeon. I am sure you are keeping history as hostage to yourself the same way as I quoted an example. While you have the right to claim to be educated, leave a small margin for others as well.

20:46 March 27, 2011 by erkan
I think it shows a lot of responcibility on the part of the German Gov.

and Frau Merkal . The Americans are fighting in Afghanistan to end

terrorism and all Karzai and his heroin pusher friends do is complain .

Arabs are 2 faced they always say "yes spend millions helping us but don´t

expect us to say thank you infidels "! Also it´s a bit racist to help Lybia , but

not to hear the cries of the Sudanese and the Congo they´ve needed help

for a long time where were the cries to help them? Also Germany is

spending enough money helping to support their DEADBEAT NEIGHBORS

those p"arty animals "the Greeks and Portugese
08:09 March 28, 2011 by Curmudgeon

Here is one book you don't hear about: "Germany Must Perish" by Theodore Kaufman.

This book is a toned down version of the Morgenthau Plan and what happened to you: "Germany Is Our Problem"

Here is a book detailing what did happen to you, but you aren't allowed to know:

"Other Losses" by James Bacque
13:25 March 28, 2011 by freechoice
and now they are paying for it in electoral votes...
16:04 March 28, 2011 by Bruno53
Adolf Hitler must be loving you guys from hell. Are you trying to tell me Hitler, and the Nazi Germans who supported him were such "great guys"? Whether I spell the name right or wrong would not change my opinions that Germany CAUSED World War II. That fact you CANNOT CHANGE! And I can tell you the books that say so:

"Inside the Third Reich"Albert Speer

"The Spandau Diaries" by the same author

"The Order of the Death Heads" by Heinz Hoehne

"Adolf Hitler" Joachim C Fest

'Adolf Hitler" John Toland

"The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" William Shirer

"Doctor Goebbels" by Heinrich Fraenkel and Roger Mannvel

The problem is that you are "revisionists". Influenced by this crank David Irving, a "neo Nazi". And since 1945 these guys have been trying to change history by trying to portray Hitler's Germany in a "good light". As George Santayana once said, "those who don't remember the past, are condemned to repeat it". You cannot fool me. I have been reading about Hitler's Germany for 45 years. You started just recently because of your young age.
16:48 March 28, 2011 by freechoice
has anybody read the fiction book 'der Gründerzentren des Terrorismus in Deutschland'?
08:29 March 29, 2011 by Curmudgeon
To Bruno53.

I read Mein Kampf in 1966.

I cannot change your opinion. That Germany caused WWII is factually incorrect. All wars are economic wars. Germany was becoming too powerful economically. The UK's trade was taking a shitkicking from German goods. The international banksters were being shut out of the game. Very dangerous, as Saddam and Gaddaffi have found out, and Chavez will soon.
15:16 March 29, 2011 by bad_tolz
Last evening, President Obama presented his approach on coalition strategy in regard to the Libya crisis. Of significant notice was the omission of ¦quot;Germany¦quot; in any part of the speech to the American people. This strategy by Mr. Obama, I believe was very intentional. Two models of government come to mind: Germany and Israel. Both governments were born out the carnage of the Second World War, both have very similar governments, both have competing coalitions of government. Israel, like Germany has a multitude of political parties and varying competing interests of those parties. Both have a major interest in remaining in the positive light of the United States government and people. The difference between the two is that Israel is basically surrounded by enemies and the U.S. is very adamant about not getting them overtly involved in any middle east crisis¦#39;s. Germany¦#39;s enemy I believe is domestic and that the U.S. it seems has to use any leverage in its diplomatic arsenal in an attempt to shame them into participation into the greater good of NATO. Can you say, ¦quot;Free Rider¦quot;. Germany used to say the same of France.
16:17 March 29, 2011 by Bruno53
So you read this "Mein Kampf" in 1966 and haven't notice it was written by a mentally deranged guy named Adolf Hitler? Forty-five years without noticing it? Either you live in denial, or went to one of Uranus' moons in that year, and just returned recently. In too many testimonies, including from many who served under Hitler, like his secretaries and Speer, you can CLEARLY see it was Hitler and Nazi Germany who started World War II. Any school kid will notice it. And more evidence? Read in Speer's "Secret Diaries: Spandau", around a 1947 entry, how he describes Hitler's obsessions in destroying New York City. And in John Toland's "Adolf Hitler", Hitler said to his secretaries how he was responsible for World War II, and all the consequences of it. And that was the night of February 13th, 1945, THE SAME NIGHT BRITISH BOMBERS WERE HEADED TO DRESDEN, Hitler made those dreadful comments. You are a "revisionist" and a Neo Nazi trying to misinform the new generation of people who usually don't read history, and have no knowledge of World War II. But people like YOU cannot fool us. And more books for people to READ of the evilness of Hitler's Germany: "The Last Battle" by Cornelius Ryan and "The Psychopatic God" by Robert G. L. Waite. And there is a museum in Washington, D.C, USA showing the evilness of Hitler and his Nazis. And I am not a Jew, by the way. Just a heavy reader of Hitler's Germany and World War II.
10:12 March 30, 2011 by Acushla
One end result of this illegal and unconstitutional action of Obama in Libya is that Libya will join with other countries in attacking Israel. Do you want this?
15:36 March 30, 2011 by bad_tolz
My dear Acushla,

What basis do you draw your conclusion that Israel will be attacked by those who have just thrown off the yokes from years of abuse by tyrants? If your thinking Pan-Arabism is going to go after Israel after brewing you would be wrong. Think about how effective Nassar was the the multitude of tribes that make up Libya. Or how effective he was in getting people to go after Israel. Wait a minute...Egypt has a peace treaty with Israel...Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, they have their own fights?

My core arguement was that Germany is a "Free-Rider" enjoying the Umbrella of security that chiefly, America provides. Germany's action in not joining other nations taking a stand for murder is at best...coward like. Wait until more refugees make it to Germany.
16:49 March 30, 2011 by Bruno53
After making critical comments of Germany's recent history may I say this: congratulation to today's Germany for refusing NOT to join this mad war against Ghadafy's Libya. Mr. Ghadafy may be rotten but we have NO BUSINESS to intervene in that country's civil war. The sooner we get out the better it will be. Germany has LEARNED well the lesson of history. And for those who might have accused me for making "anti German comments", I will say I admire the Germany, and Austria, that gave us Johann Sebastian Bach, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Ludwig van Beethoven and Johannes Brahms. And add Richard Wagner. Not the Germany that gave us Hitler and his Nazis.
12:24 March 31, 2011 by alf2
Germany was destroyed by internationalist interventionism itself in WW2. If you interfere militarily in other countries internal affairs, you are giving tacit permission for other countries to intefere in yours.
16:03 April 1, 2011 by Bruno53
And how do you call the 1938 Anchluss to Austria, Hitler's violating the Munich Pact of 1938 by absorbing Czechoslovakia by 1939, invading Poland, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Baltic states up to Greece, and finally invading Stalin's Russia, after breaking the Ribbentrop-Molotov 1939 pact of nonaggression? And ordering the German Wehrmacht and SS to carry out genocide on the people of Eastern Europe [ever heard of Himmler's and Heydrich SS "Eintzamgruppen"?] Germany was destroyed by Allies because your "hero" Adolf Hitler, who ordered all this madness, ASK FOR IT! Case closed.
17:18 April 1, 2011 by Sastry.M
In view of so much abuse committed wantonly during the last century by Germany let the present 21'st leave her alone to set it right and stabilize in her own way unperturbed and pressurized by her western allies. Let the virtues of Democracy her western allies uphold and seek to implement in autocratically ruled nations serve their own ideals because Germany has not yet digested during 60y tenure of it in the brave perspective of her former enemies. In spite of cowardice to comply to their brave missions let Germany,now her sovereignty at lest is guaranteed by her immediate NATO membership, take bold steps internally to prove the extent of her guilt in all aspects of crimes committed during the Nazi era. Let her constitute a bench of judges invited from impartial and uncommitted nations during ww2 setting clear terms of investigation keeping all of her war records at their disposal and bear all the costs as part of soul searching, self instituted and independent inquiry. Observers from nations other than her former enemies should be authorized to strictly supervise the judicial process to avoid all prejudices from both sides. The results of such a process, in my opinion, will serve to clearly demarcate the extent of crimes perpetrated wantonly and shared by uncommitted people unwittingly. This may win the confidence of present generation who were not born and yet accused to bear the guilt of atrocities of their fore fathers. With tacit approval of the results from all concerned as well as U.N Organizations Germany can be commissioned to bear all responsibilities initiated into the 21'st century.
22:56 April 1, 2011 by Anton Grambihler
Subject: Who's the Coward?

When the United States could have made a real difference it voted against the Palestine Gentiles. This shows an utter disrespect for the over 35,000,000 Gentiles that died to help bring World War II to an end.
09:48 April 2, 2011 by Sastry.M
Only cowards seek alliance to wage wars killing others with self serving greed. The brave fight in wars with self reliance seeking to defend truth and fall for others.
22:04 April 2, 2011 by craferr
Apologize that I cant write in German, I havent used it for years. Kadaffi was probably set up years ago as a terrorist as part of a future plan to take his oil. The Lockerbee trial included perjury, and alleged tampering with evidence by the CIA.Lybian oil is owned by Lybia, Kadaffi has given the people many material things with the oil, they are well off, Lybia, 5 times the size of Iraq has enormous oil reserves which Lybia is selling slowly in a wise, conservative pattern, disliked by the west. Presently,who instigated, provided vehicles, armed, paid, financed, and trained these "revolutionaries" ? was a question never answered by the western media. A western reporter Pepe Escobar reports in the Chinese "Asia Times Online"

that these "revolutionaries" have long been trained and financed by the House of Saud, French Intelligence, and the CIA. Most Lybians dont favor foreign intervention. See




Ms. Merkel is absolutely right if you believe in honesty and fairness. Obama and Sarkozy werent truthful with their people, which voids democracy.
04:05 April 4, 2011 by Curmudgeon

I read Mein Kampf, because my history teacher, a WWII vet injured in action, urged us to read it. His take was that Hitler was evil, and all of his plans were in it.

My father and 4 uncles were also in the also in the air force during WWII. One uncle was Jewish. I never heard him, until he died 22 years ago, utter a word about the 6 million. He was, however, enthralled by German cameras, knives, cars and other manufactured goods.

My father used to talk about "Old Ben Freedman" to others, but rarely when kids were around. It was obviously some kind of code to the adults. After he died, I found a book titled "I Was A Priest" that was written in 1948 by an ex-Catholic priest, who accused the church of covering up sexual abuse of young girls and boys by priests. Years later, I found out who Old Ben Freedman was, and what he had witnessed.

My friend's father was a bomber flight navigator. My friend told me that he never spoke of his war experiences other than to speak in general terms of what his duties were. Across the street was a neighbour that fought in through Italy, including Ortona. Three houses away was a neighbour that served in the Navy. They didn't speak of their experiences to their kids. My point is this Bruno, I grew up with people who fought for the "good guys", who never had a bad thing to say about Germans, and in fact were more than welcoming when German families moved into the neighbourhood.

The only person I met that spoke openly was a friend's father-in-law, who also fought through Italy. He said quite matter-of-factly that they didn't take prisoners, because prisoners had to be fed and guarded. They were interrogated, then shot while trying to escape.

I have read a number of other books Bruno. I have also gone on line to the Avalon Project to read transcripts of the Nuremberg Trials. Some of the "evidence" is comical.

My view is basically this. I was not there to witness what happened. The people that I have spoken to, who did witness the carnage, are like the people who write books. They either believe the "official history", or don't. People write books for a number of reasons, among which are political objectives. Historians don't like people like David Irving, because he looks in places they won't for information.

I keep my opinions to myself. I encourage others to look beyond the obvious irrespective of the topic. There are many facts that are incongruent with the official history or narrative, including what is happening today in Libya.
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