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Drone attack target was 20-year-old from Wuppertal

The Local · 16 Oct 2010, 10:45

Published: 16 Oct 2010 10:45 GMT+02:00

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Friends said the German-Turkish man, who had worked for years on a farm between Velbert and Essen, had seemed to become radicalised two years ago.

The paper reported that it was only three weeks ago that he left for Pakistan, where his father-in-law works as a religion teacher, in order to study Islam.

He was killed along with two other men on October 4 in a farmhouse in the northern Waziristan region.

The others were preparing terrorist attacks in Western Europe according to testimony from a prisoner in American custody, although the WAZ said it was not clear whether the 20-year-old was involved.

The German Foreign Ministry would not comment, but people who know him have confirmed his death.

Story continues below…

August Hanning, former head of the Federal Intelligence Service, told the WAZ that some 220 Jihadists had been given paramilitary training in Pakistan, half of which have returned to Germany.


The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

12:11 October 16, 2010 by Bushdiver
So, according to this report 110 out of 220 Jihadists have returned to Germany, so why haven't they been arrested and deported? Are the Germans going to wait until maybe a couple hundred people are killed before they make a move? I'm sure they didn't do the traing because they thought it would be fun.
13:26 October 16, 2010 by michael4096
Because, in most civilized countries today you have to do something illegal before you can be arrested.

Perhaps you feel that acting like those you so obviously dislike is a good way of convincing misguided youth that there is a better way
14:25 October 16, 2010 by Frenemy
" in a US army drone attack "

Airforce/CIA actually...
18:58 October 16, 2010 by William Thirteen
Friedrich Engels was also from Wuppertal. Coincidence or something more?
19:25 October 16, 2010 by Bushdiver
@ michael4096.............Maybe when one of the 110 sticks a bomb up your butt you will think differently. These guys didn't go there and take the training for the fun of it. It has nothing to do with disliking these people. Do you have to put your hand in the fire to find out that it's hot?
19:31 October 16, 2010 by SRaab

actually, I don´t think you really know what your talkin about.
19:31 October 16, 2010 by Celeon
Never thought it would make me happy to hear that someone will never reach the age of 21. But in this case it truly does.

Rest in pieces.
19:48 October 16, 2010 by SRaab
Amen, Celeon
20:28 October 16, 2010 by Joshontour

I used to live in Florida and at the time my son was 2 years old. One day he was in the backyard playing and I saw an eastern diamondback rattlesnake about 2 meters from him. Without thinking I ran to my son, pushed him behind me, grabbed the snake by the tail and whipped it against a tree. Am I uncivilized for doing so, or should I have waited until after it struck before doing something?
20:30 October 16, 2010 by nepo77
Having paramilitary training doesnt mean it will actually be used against your homeland. Thousands of militias inside the US is proof of that. Action before prosecution. Everything else is totalitarian. It is a scandal that US Forces would simply kill Germans without any prosecution , they should have called in Pakistani ground forces for an arrest. If the Germans would have resisted the arrest then they still could have taken them out and if not they would be in court now and the US could present what real evidence for any crimes they did.
21:19 October 16, 2010 by slawek
@Bushdiver As assets for intelligence purposes they are even more useful when walking free. If you arrest every known jihadist there is little to work with as there is little chance to find out what you yet don't know, who else is an extremist, etc.

But Hanning's comment seems to imply there is no control over them, that can't be true if they are known by name, which Hanning seems to imply at the same time. I too would like to know if the situation is safe that way.
22:52 October 16, 2010 by wood artist

If someone showed up at your door, prepared to arrest you for what you've been thinking, I suspect you'd be pretty darn upset. In fact, years ago the German people endured a regime that did exactly that. They took away people who's only "crime" was to verbally disagree with the direction the government was taking.

Now, I think we all know how that worked out, and I'm willing to bet that darn few people, especially those who lived through that time, have any interest in returning to that concept of a legal system.

Perhaps it's fairer to continue the idea of free speech. True, sometimes that means we can only punish people after terrible deeds have been committed, but the alternative is, in many ways, worse. Are you the one who gets to decide which people we arrest? Am I? Could I decide to have you arrested?

This is not just a slippery slope, this is jumping off a cliff!

As others have suggested, perhaps a great number of these so-called Jihadists are known and being watched. Maybe someone who has never been out of Germany will be the next terrorist to act. In any case, the freedoms we all enjoy, including the freedom to voice our opinions here, come with a price. It means those who disagree with us are allowed to have ideas too, and even speak about them.

00:13 October 17, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Joshontour --

So in your view there's no distinction between a rattlesnake and a human being, correct? Summary execution because of a perceived threat, right?

A rattlesnake isn't going to strike from two meters away unless threatened. Rattlesnakes prefer not to strike, rather to be left alone. Your analogy tells me that you don't know anything about rattlesnakes or human beings, but you certainly project a lot of fear toward both. Tough way to live, buddy.
11:24 October 17, 2010 by michael4096
"Maybe when one of the 110 sticks a bomb up your butt you will think differently."

Maybe I will. But, the 109 others wouldn't
14:09 October 17, 2010 by wenddiver
Dear Wupertal,

Thank you so much for the nice thank you note,

Of Course your welcome!!

Wupertal, really no thanks are necessary,

we enjoy taking out the Garbage!

Hugs and Kisses,

Your friends, the US Air Force
14:47 October 17, 2010 by Frenemy
@wood artist: I like your argument/logical reasoning.

Although I'm a tad reticent about applying it to suicidal guerrillas, I'm perfectly happy to apply it to misguided but well-meaning radicals like Sarrazin. Right or wrong, peoplel like him should have the right to *say* what they believe (it only becomes a problem once the rhetoric starts translating into official policies...like mass deportations or "work camps").

As for jihadists, I prefer to err on the side of caution.
16:19 October 17, 2010 by OMFG
@Joshontour - Yes, I think you are uncivilized. But not "for doing so", but rather for seriously comparing a rattlesnake with a human being. Did you really expect anyone to say, you should have waited for the snake to bite your son and then bring the snake to court?

@Frenemy - And where would you draw the line? You would apply wood artist's logic (wich I completely agree with, without any "but") to Sarrazin, but not to suicidal guerrillas? What is an "official policy"? Is it "official policy" when a priest calls for burning 200 Korans in the name of Church? I think it is, but US law apparently doesn't prevent him from doing so - he reconsidered by himself - while US law foresees putting people in jail for years for "committing" conspiracy?
16:37 October 17, 2010 by Frenemy
An official policy is a tendency/practice codified by state-sanctioned law (or something like that).

As for that pastor your talking about, he is an extremist nut job (he and his ilk are the same (on both sides of the political spectrum). Also, he did NOT reconsider "by himself". He was pressured (and rightly so) by the government to cease and desist his provocative BS (doesn't matter what you believe in, that sort of sh!t would not have ended well for anyone).
23:06 October 17, 2010 by bestman
These days we can't wait for Joshontour's rattlesnake to strike because today's weapons of mass destruction put a whole new meaning on the phrase "perceived threat". If you're not frightened of the brave new world of Mumbai massacres and suitcase bombs you have a screw loose and as the DHS admits its only a matter of time untill somebody gets through. At least it won't be the 20 year old from Wuppertal.
23:24 October 17, 2010 by OMFG
@Frenemy - While I agree with you on that sort of sh!t would not have ended well for anyone, I'm wondering how the government can pressure someone to cease doing something that the law allows him to do.

@Bushdiver - See? That's why the 110 Jihadists have not been arrested and deported. It's (unfortunately, like burning Korans in the US) not against German law to attend paramilitary training in Pakistan. I wish it was against the law, but I can only vote for so many political parties here (at least more than just two).
11:53 October 18, 2010 by Eastard
The Islamic warriors want you to play fair and to feel bad if you violate their rights. This expectation is their greatest tool... knowledge that the majority of the civilized world prefers not to play their game or even acknowledge that it is a game (strategy)... They will kill your civilian population without remorse one or two at a time forever... Remember... if they do this, they get what is not possible in the Muslim world... multiple virgins... Keep in mind that we are not talking about all Muslims... just the ones that are members of a small group of radicals... My suggestion to Germany is that if you have reason to believe someone in is your country just trained with back country military in Afghanistan, you might want to consider some serious strategy to address it... In the world as it is the lines have been drawn on the many from the few... I DO NOT SEE THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY openly condemning the few in their ranks or having any material influence to stop it... Germany should be able to question and address an profile suggesting participation... This is not the same as zero personal rights and locking the citizens up for no reason... Remember that your rules are good for them and their rules are good for them... how do they loose...?
17:16 October 18, 2010 by veritas_69
This should read, Drone attack target was s 20-year-old Muslim Turk who resided for a time in Wuppertal. This Turk is no more German than Barack Obama is an American.
18:07 October 18, 2010 by bestman
The muslim community doesn't strongly condemn terrorist's attacks because in several ways these terrorists are seen by the muslim community as heros in the muslim tradition of jihad. Once you fully face and comprehend this fact the ambiguity disappears.
07:22 October 19, 2010 by 1FCK_1FCK
Every single Muslim wants to kill you. So let's all, you know, kill them all first, OK? We're all bloodthirsty zealots sitting at our keyboards. I'm glad the world is so black & white for you people. Saves you from having to think about complex situations. Let's just trust our governments to know who should be killed & who shouldn't. They've never misled us before now, have they?

You folks get all up in arms, ranting & raving when the govt wants tax money from you for "lazy poor people," or somehow invades your privacy, or bails out failing banks with your hard-earned money. But, for some unknown reason, when the govt says "these people are bad, so we're going to kill them," you don't bat an eyelash. You just say "OK, go right ahead." Even when they are citizens of our own country & are being denied due process guaranteed to them in your constitution.

Why is that?
00:28 October 21, 2010 by nocensorship
Why does the media keep referring to these Muslim terrorists as German? They are Turks who happened to live in Germany. As for some of the comments above, sure not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim. As long as the Muslim community see them as heroes, as Bestman noted, then they will continued to be grouped in with terrorists.
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