• Germany's news in English

Much ado about Thilo

The Local · 7 Sep 2010, 11:39

Published: 07 Sep 2010 11:39 GMT+02:00

Facebook Twitter Google+ reddit

A year ago a Turkish entrepreneur set up a kebab shop just opposite my favourite baker near the entrance to the train station. At first, there were Anatolian delights like Döner and Börek, then he expanded to include newspapers, coffee and grilled chicken. Finally, he ended up selling the classic Berlin fast food Currywurst. Last week the shop was shut.

A sad development for him personally, but his business plan was not exactly brilliant: my neighbourhood Grunewald is not exactly famous for its thriving Turkish community – indeed many of its elderly German residents would probably be itching to call the police if they saw a young Muslim-looking man roving the streets.

Of course, the name Thilo Sarrazin has been on everybody’s lips in our sedate and resolutely conservative ‘hood lately. Attacking the alleged unwillingness of Muslim immigrants to integrate into German society, the disgraced Bundesbank board member has become a kind of martyr, a supposed truth-teller; a hero in the struggle against suffocating political correctness apparently on the rise in Germany. But we know that the story is a little more complex than that, don’t we?

Sarrazin’s controversial book, Deutschland schafft sich ab - Wie wir unser Land aufs Spiel setzen, or “Abolishing Germany - How we’re putting our country at jeopardy,” tries to use statistics to make a variety of contradictory arguments.

But in the end it is not clear whether he is trying to tell us something about intelligence and race, about education and finance, or about the science of Germany’s national decline. Frankly, it’s not unlike the jumble of latent xenophobia often found down at your local pub.

But I don’t believe Sarrazin is a racist, merely a misguided troublemaker. He is also extremely naïve.

Sarrazin's true error was not to offend the Muslims and the Jews – any buffoon can do that – but to imagine that he was going to be the vanguard of a movement asking suppressed questions about the meaning of immigration in Germany.

As soon as he has been formally sacked from the Bundesbank, he will have fulfilled his function: the creation of outrage. He will sell books but will not convince the political establishment that it needs to change.

But the leadership of the Social Democratic Party would be stupid to follow the central bank’s lead by also expelling Sarrazin. If I understand my (borrowed) copy of the book correctly, he is primarily concerned with the so-called underclass. Immigrants, as we know, form a significant chunk of this group, but then so do Germans who can trace their Teutonic roots back to the Middle Ages.

One section of the Sarrazin book calls for the withholding of welfare payments if parents do not send their children to school. That is the punitive Sarrazin, and you can love him or hate him. His underlying case, however, is that the country’s underclass should be opened up and made more socially porous. Work has to have meaning; individuals have to take their lives into their own hands. This, surely, is a core message of the modern Social Democratic Party. Sarrazin is not simply some kind of right-wing fanatic.

Perhaps he would have been given more credit if he hadn’t unfairly decided to single out one group (Muslims) and accepted that plenty of Arab and Turkish immigrants do indeed make determined efforts to fit into German society.

I have written before about a friend, Ayfer, who is a fashionable hairdresser in Berlin’s fancy Mitte district. One of many children from a Turkish immigrant family, she left school early but discovered she had a passion for hair. Fortunately Germany’s adult education system, the so-called zweiter Bildungsweg, is far superior to anything Britain has, and she eventually got her Abitur school diploma. After stints at Vidal Sassoon and Tony & Guy she eventually claimed her Meisterbrief.

She then decided to open her own salon, but the bank rejected her as a bad credit risk being single, female, a hairdresser, and, of course, Turkish. Ayfer's parents had to give up their savings – intended for their retirement in Turkey – so that she could open the salon. Today she employs four Germans and is a German citizen herself.

Story continues below…

What does that show us? That the German system really does offer chances for the ambitious – but that it can also throw up plenty of obstacles. And that you don't have to know a single line of mediaeval poetry by Walter von der Vogelweide in order to commit yourself – as Ayfer's parents did – to a wholly German future. These are the mechanisms of social integration. They have to be understood and refined but we are still a long way from Sarrazin's nightmarishly bleak vision of the future.

Let's remove the hysteria from the debate, look at the problems unblinkingly, and see what can be improved. Every major European society has similar immigration and integration issues. It is time that Germany exchanged experiences with some its neighbours and opened up a bit.

It is no use pretending that everything is perfect, but neither should a particular group of immigrants be made the scapegoat for all the problems.

For more Roger Boyes, check out his website here.

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

Facebook Twitter Google+ reddit

Your comments about this article

13:26 September 7, 2010 by Jason2
But that is the point, that's why Sarrazin is a hero. Because his book and his statements are a rael wake-up-call for these sleeping "nazi-keule"-fearing german politician.

I mean, its nothing new, we knew and could see on the street before that turks cause a lot of problems but no one did really say something about it and if he did, the politician did not react to it.

Read the book of the berlin judge Heisig. She said a lot of these things already, and also did prove it with COURTFACTS! Still, nobody cared. Ubercorrekt Merkle is always like "yeah... i know... but its not that bad so let's talk about it next month..."

Sarrazin put this topic into the spotlight. He is the reason why YOU wrote this articel about this topic. So like him or not, he is the reason why politics must act now.
20:26 September 7, 2010 by Justiceiro
Your counterargument to Sarrazin's claim that Turkish and other immigrants have difficulty integrating into German society is, essentially, anecdotal and lacks credibility. The fact that you know one Turkish woman who is well integrated is basically meaningless. It's the stock answer when elements of the social and political elite are confronted with this question; because one can always find one, or a dozen, or even several thousand immigrants who are in fact well integrated. Essentially, your argument boils down to this, that if even one single immigrant is well integrated, then all are equally well integrated. It's never a good idea to equate individuals as summing up whole groups, whether it is to their detriment or to their advantage, it's sloppy social analysis.

When viewed as a whole, it is clear these communities both face and create problems disproportionate to their numbers. They are marginalized, and exhibit all the dysfunctions and experience the disadvantages of marginalized groups everywhere.

No group should be made a scapegoat for all of society's ills. Nor, however, should fear of this lead us to ignore legitimate problems.

Well meaning nonsense as this article may be, it is in fact pernicious. By enforcing a rigid adherence to obviously outmoded views of social function and dysfunction, as well as to an unrealistic and inherently iniquitous code of political correctness, you ensure that reasonable and well meaning people have no forum in which they can discuss and deal with obvious and growing problems (such as sequestering children and preventing them from attending school, which I take hardly as flippantly as you do) what you are ultimately doing is ensuring that the discourse related to this issue is tended to and dominated by the fringe right.

This doesn't discredit the problems people have with unassimmilated immigrants, rather, it actually lends credibility to the ugly elements of the right. Tar enough normal people, often enough, with the Nazi brush and don't be surprised if they start to look in that direction with a little less disdain.
00:27 September 8, 2010 by elke77
"..Every major European society has similar immigration and integration issues..."

Because your ideas and thinking have dominated in the past. Your tolerance and bridge building does not work, it just encourages abuses and parallelism. Don't tell Germans that we are the ones who must adapt to immigrants, it is THEY who must adapt to our ways, or go elsewhere.

And let me finish by saying how insulting it is to have this woolly nonsense from a UK citizen when the UK is the only EU country to install sharia law courts into legal operation, as your employing paper reported back in 2008. And this directly following the 7/7/2005 bombings by Islamic inspired terrorists. Talk about hysterical, hysterical appeasement that is!

Do you want Germany to learn how to prostrate itself before radical Islam like your people and governments do? Forget it.
01:35 September 8, 2010 by Beachrider
Hmmm. Public discussion about immigration policy is good. Inferring progress of any given demographic group from single instances is bad. There is nothing wrong with building a case for a position with such instances, you just need many of them to build any momentum.

I don't know what the rules are about home-schooling or private-schooling in Germany. In the USA, home-schooling is OK, so long as the students can pass standardized tests that are done with all students. There are examples (the Koresh [Vernon Howell] / Branch Davidians) where home-schooling clearly was a springboard to teach social pathology. I am not sure that you can avoid that without significantly curbing religious freedom. Social pathology can be ingrained beyond daytime-schooling, anyhow.

There is probably a true Xenophobia about naturalizing non-Germans. There is concern that it will alter the German state in some significant way. Germans just have to arrive at some just mechanism and live with whatever change it brings.
09:06 September 8, 2010 by rajkshan
I TOTALLY DISAGREE with U. U R trying to point out only the positive side for the imigrants. But I am too an Immigrant., but what the Turks do by just producing kids N not taking care or guiding them brings the whole lot of problems. Germany should WAKE UP FAST. Or will fade away.
09:55 September 8, 2010 by JohnnesKönig
My Dear Krauts?!?!? I am very tempted to tell dear writer to kiss a hinder area of my anatomy... I feel I am in agreement with all the posts above. And I would say most Germans are too! I suggest you take notice and do some real writing on issues by learning facts and doing some real research.
10:59 September 8, 2010 by catjones
The Sarrazins of the world never air their own dirty laundry. Why doesn't he point to the East germans who never assimilated? Or how about the gene defected german high school drop outs? What about the german parasites living on a life-long dole? Or the german drunk on the corner peeing in the bushes? We've all see these examples of true deutsche-blut born, but somehow Sarrazin forgot to include them his degeneration of the german race.
16:18 September 8, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Elke77 wrote: "Your tolerance and bridge building does not work, it just encourages abuses and parallelism."

I agree. There's nothing quite so intolerable as tolerance and bridge-building. Intolerance and bridge-detonation are the only hope for the future. We must become as intolerant as the Muslims we despise in order to guarantee an endless cycle of hate-fueled religious and cultural wars for centuries to come.
17:01 September 8, 2010 by coyote3000
@Elke77: you sound hysterical.

@Prufrock2010: thx for that. your comment made my day.
18:49 September 8, 2010 by Maurice45
The central figure of your article - Sarrazin - talks about the social impact on the German society of an antagonistic ethno-religious group ... and surely not about a German female of Turkish descent who got her Abitur admirably through the thorny road of Zweite Bildungsweg, finished her apprenticeship and eventually claimed her Meisterbrief. This is what not many purebred ethnic Germans are capable of achieving.

Instead, in his disputed book Sarrazin talks about a steadily growing part of members of a specific migrant population in Germany, which refuses to integrate into the society they chose to ¦quot;migrate¦quot; to for classical economic reasons. The long term problem for the host society is that this group continues to ¦quot;celebrate¦quot; a lifestyle which lead to the ¦quot;barren economies¦quot; they escaped from in the first place: Religious bigotry, animosity to education and rejection of modernity.

This has become a threat to the welfare of the German society, not only because it draws an ever bigger portion of Germany's solidarity funding, but mainly because the migrating group - when it stays in a group - is in a very antagonistic way ethnically and culturally homogeneous, while at the same time remaining in hostile toward the norms of the German mainstream culture and its secular society; and because this hostile group is meanwhile so large that it forms a ¦quot;parallel society¦quot;, hardly ¦quot;penetrateable¦quot; from the outside.

Purposely I am not using the term ¦quot;immigrants¦quot; for these migrants, because the prefix ¦quot;im¦quot; implies that nonnative individuals migrate into the society of another people with the latter's consent, in order to live with them and settle on their territory for good and ­this is very important ­ TO BECOME ONE DAY A LOYAL PART OF THIS SOCIETY they chose to migrate into.

This implies of course that these newcomers absorb the cultural norms, values, beliefs, and behavior patterns of the "host" society … otherwise a tight and dense populated country, as Germany is, becomes in turn extraordinarily ¦#39;stressed¦#39;, which might lead one day to cultural clashes a la Ireland, Bosnia or Kosovo.

This is a real danger . . . and not superficial demagogy. I believe that Thilo Sarrazin talks about this risk. He is like an uncomfortable but necessary prophet, who warns not to continue a dead-end pass which, what he clearly sees, is leading into the abyss.

It¦#39;s up to the politicians now to draw political consequences from Sarrazin¦#39;s provocative warnings (and from his public success) . . . and do so in accordance with the German constitution and its democratic values
21:14 September 8, 2010 by quantumsprung
Enjoyed reading your comments, Maurice45. I agree. Thanks for the great post.
10:34 September 9, 2010 by alpik79
His comments about migrants in germany are approved by a majority , 75% in comments section of turkish newspapers . That is weird?. Already existing gap between immigrants from lower class and average native Turkish citizens is growing. However, politicians acedemicians in Turkey never really adressed these people in Germany anyway.

However, the truth is out there and people with analytycal minds will easily find the connections. Seeing things in black and white is the most easy way to identify if soemone has a mental disease or not. There is a dangerous tendency in GErmany as if they know everything about Turkey through an unrepresantative sample.

About islam phobia , I think islamphobia can only be tackled by understanding the differences in islam too. there is no one interpretation of it. From China shin-jian? to Bosnia f you can not put 1.5 billion people in one basket.

we should not to forget what happened in balkans in the name of relligion in 90's. worst in number of innocent people killed in the name of religious hate recently.

In the end, this article lacks a lot of facts. Anyone could write that , I am sorry.

Some facts statistics?I don't know something that people don't know?

Finally, hairdressers and kebap shop owners is the image of the turkish immigrants in germany as it was also presented in this article. That is why germany loose educated potential migrants from Turkey or never really can attract the brilliant youth in Turkey since they wisely choose to go anglophone countries unfortunate for Turkey.
10:58 September 9, 2010 by Actuality
The debate on immigration is essentially racist in nature, because when we talk about immigration in Europe what we actually mean is brown-skinned people, or africans, or muslims.

I'm English and can freely walk down the street without anybody knowing I'm an immigrant.

The first poster made the comment that "Turks" caused a lot of problems, and yet the headline on the Local yesterday was the jailing of the two WHITE GERMAN teenage scumbags who beat that guy to death.

At the end of the day immigrants do the jobs the rest of you don't want to do. That's why the wave of Turkish people cmae to Germany in the first place, and why Indians and West Indians came to England after the war.

Try to remember, too, that the actions of our countries over the last couple of centuries, empire-building into defenceless third world nations has directly led to the nature of the relationships we have today with foreigners.

And if you can't understand that last point none of you have a right to an opinion on this subject.
17:34 September 9, 2010 by michael4096
"When viewed as a whole, it is clear these communities both face and create problems disproportionate to their numbers. " - and other similar comments

Really? I keep seeing these blanket statements of how a lack of integration is causing problems but I still haven't seen any problems. Where are they? Why are unintegrated immigrants causing more problems than unintegrated neo-nazis, hippies, bikers, artists or any other group who just happen to want to live slightly differently to the 'integrated' variety of german? Why is this such a threat to truth, justice and the german way of life?

Even this article takes the integration 'problem' as a given and argues that sarrazin's emphasis is hysteria. I'll go further and claim that the entire integration issue, like the emporer's new clothes, is simply imagination. "It must exist or why would everybody be talking about it, they can't all be wrong. Can they?" Maybe they can.
00:16 September 10, 2010 by Logic Guy
Well, allow me to offer an interesting observation.

I have come to realize that most people respect the truth, even if does not benefit them personally. It's the negative rhetoric they turn against. And so, those who are really interested in change just have to present their message in a non-aggressive way. The main idea is to appeal to the MAJORITY of people.

God, I hope that all aspiring leaders soon realize this.
13:11 September 10, 2010 by GeeAitch
I have just returned from Germany and found it wonderfully integrated and tolerant.

Remember that in every society, it is the arrivals who must adapt to their new homeland, not the other way around.

If Germans moved to Peru, Mongolia, Turkey etc, they could not expect the country to adapt just because they have chosen to live there.

Ironically many immigration source countries have appallingly racist policies. Thousands of Germans, Italians, Brits and some Americans have retired to India, mostly near Goa. But the only residence permit they can get is a six-month holiday visa.

Now the Delhi government has made it worse by ending back-to-back visas. Applicants must spend at least eight weeks outside India before being granted a fresh six-month stay. And these are people who have legally bought homes there.

Imagine if Germany treated foreigners that way.
16:35 September 10, 2010 by Yontrop
Even when I mostly agree with him, Rodger tends to irritate me. But enough about me, except to say that I haven't read Thilo Sarrazin's book so I won't comment on what he wrote in it. Not having read the book should have stopped a lot of the comments posted here.

Rodger is right that the discussion should get past the hysteria and focus on integration and problems of and about immigrants. So far there has seen so much discussion about what to do with Sarrazin. His book and other remarks have made it impossible for him to keep his position at The Bundesbank and he has acknowledged that fact. Sigmar Gabriel explained , last night on ZDF, exactly why the SPD needs to expel him. It's funny how most of the politicians with serious reservations about that are either with the CDU CSU or FDP.

Somebody here posted an opinion that there is no problem with or for immigrants. That's pretty funny... and "Logic Guy", what planet do you live on? I'd like to come and join you.
11:37 September 11, 2010 by tallady
WOW,any article that deals with the immigration and integration draws a lot of hell fire and brimstone..a lot of very interesting and well stated opinions. I do not believe there is a silver bullet for these discussions,I look around and see where the Islamic folks in many cases have found a niche here and appear to be self supportive and contribute to the German economy, I do not see much integration.A large number of Muslims have been hear for 50 years and have not integrated into German society yet and I suspect that isnt going to change.Islam and Christian society are not that compatible.We all have beat this point around numerous times. Religion,when practiced, and when in the case of Islam is,, as was stated earlier, a way of life for the true believers ,and this will not change.and neither will complete integration of the two beliefs ever truly happen.That leaves us all with Acceptance,, The sooner we come to terms with that the better for everyone...
17:31 September 11, 2010 by AyaMatsuura
Why should the people of Germany put up with a group who refuses to fit in? That's crap. Look at the problem in the states with immigrants who refuse to fit it.

They need to integrate or they should be kicked out.
19:43 September 11, 2010 by Jerr-Berlin
in support of elke77

very good points...
22:49 September 11, 2010 by username123456789
hey germans wake up!!!!!!!!!!

the most do not want to integrate in the western societies...

they give a sh*t on the system in the western civilized word.

they come like the gov teaches them to come:

read newspapers online in english from islamic countries and you can find ads and other promoting articles about immigration to western countries for free.

they should there breed as crazy (10 times more than non-muslims) and so take the countries from within and peaceful.

also they geet this immigration for FREE (free plane, free house, mostly fianced by rich sheiks or other rich muslims).

the target: NON_immigration and overtaking the country with sharia law and taking everything what the country and the system has to offer (welfare - in germany: sozialgilfe/arbeitslosengeld).

there exists a nice video on islam - plans how to take european countries within the next 60-100 years: search for it.

there are only 2 ways: 1. deportaton of them or 2: they stay inside and islam will rule europe because of much higher demographic breeding rate.

sarrazin should found a party, he would be get much more votes than fdp and the other small parties together,,,like statistics already showed.

nuff said...
02:55 September 12, 2010 by hanskarl
The Qur'an:

Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Qur'an (5:80) - "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide." Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.

Qur'an (3:28) - "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them..." This last part means that the Muslim is allowed to feign friendship if it is of benefit. Renowned scholar Ibn Kathir states that "believers are allowed to show friendship outwardly, but never inwardly."

Qur'an (3:85) - "And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers."

Qur'an (3:10) - "(As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah, and these it is who are the fuel of the fire." Those who do not believe in Muhammad are but fuel for the fire of Hell (also 66:6, 2:24. 21:98).

Qur'an (7:44) - "The Companions of the Garden will call out to the Companions of the Fire: "We have indeed found the promises of our Lord to us true: Have you also found Your Lord's promises true?" They shall say, "Yes"; but a crier shall proclaim between them: "The curse of Allah is on the wrong-doers" Muslims in heaven will amuse themselves by looking down on non-Muslims in Hell and mocking them while they are being tortured (see 22:19-22.

Qur'an (1:5-7) - "Show us the straight path, The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray" This is a prayer that Muslims are supposed to repeat each day. "Those who earn Thine anger" specifically refers to Jews and "those who go astray" refers to Christians (see Bukhari (12:749)).

There are verses that contradict the above however the peaceful friendship verses were written when Mohammed had few followers and when he had many follower the verses switched to violence. The previous verses were abrogated by the later verses. If verses contradict each other that should be a big question as to the validity of such a faith.

Keith Davies

Executive Director Walid Shoebat Foundation
07:24 September 12, 2010 by JohnPaul44
I noticed that one writer wrote that integration is not likely to happen, so that leaves us with only "Acceptance."

Really? If a bunch of foreign vagrants moved into my home without an invitation and took over my house, ate my food, used my kitchen, my car, my furniture, TV, etc., and then openly despised my way of life while demanding that I provide them with money, health care, etc., I assure you that neither integration nor acceptance would be at the top of the list of possible solutions I would consider!
09:31 September 12, 2010 by tallady
Nice... How do purpose we kick these "Foreign Vagrants" that have German passports and have resided here for 50 + years Out???? Maybe the Court system??? or maybe by force. Do you think either of those solutions will fly????
14:57 September 12, 2010 by hanskarl
Can w learn anything from history? Rome fell September 4, 476AD.

In the centuries preceding, Rome was overrun with illegal immigrants:

Visigoths, Franks, Anglos, Saxons, Ostrogoths, Burgundians, Lombards

and Vandals. They first assimilated, many working as servants, but soon came so fast they did not learn the Latin language.

Though militarily superior and marching on advanced road systems, the

highly trained Roman Legions were strained fighting conflicts

worldwide, and eventually troops had to be brought home from the

frontiers, such a Britain. Attila the Hun committed terrorist attacks, wiping out whole cities.

Rome had a trade deficit, having outsourced its grain production to

North Africa, and when the Vandals captured that area, Rome did not

have the resources to retaliate.

"Bread and the Circus!" Citizens of Rome were kept distracted with

violent entertainment in the Coliseum and Circus Maximus, living on

welfare and free bread.

One Roman commented: "Those who live at the expense of the public funds are more numerous than those who provide them." Tax collectors were "more terrible than the enemy." Rome was crippled by huge government bureaucracies and enormous public debt.

A history of court favoritism, infidelity, exposure of unwanted infants, perverted bathhouses, and sexual immorality led 5th-Century historian Salvian to write:

"O Roman people be ashamed...Let nobody think otherwise, the vices of

our bad lives have alone conquered us."
22:16 September 12, 2010 by ww77ww

You could not be more distant from the truth, and it is indeed you who has less right to an opinion.

Look at crime statistics in Sweden to address another part of your material.

The importation of labor from the less developed world has nothing to do with an unwillingness to do the work, rather an unwillingness to do the work for a substandard wage. The solution to this was to import labor with lower demands. It is a self-destructive policy, which encourages a growing socio-economic gap. We do not need a return to a Dickensian world.

I dare you to look at crime stats and examine violent offenses vs name.

And speak for yourself about the "actions" of nations over the centuries, it is your now aimless and misguided old island that raped and pillaged 40% of the world and has never answered for a single crime, not anyone else. Even the Americans have answered to their past more than you robbers.

Perhaps Sarrazin should indeed start a party, he's one of the few in Germany who will publicly point out the growing demographic catastrophe. Of course, the the bleeding heart left and EU-centric thought controllers will slander him with "Nazi" insults, the rebuttal of the weak and worthless.
01:19 September 13, 2010 by JohnPaul44
One writer objected to my characterization of the problem as "foreign vagrants" taking over the country, and then asked how I proposed to "kick them out"

The answer is very simple. Simply stop welfare payments to them, and they will voluntarily leave to search for handouts elsewhere!
06:56 September 13, 2010 by Halberst
There is some irony in that the photo shows a woman writing in English- what's that all about?
17:14 September 13, 2010 by tallady
"the answer is very simple. Simply stop welfare payments to them, and they will voluntarily leave to search for handouts elsewhere!"

Brillant !!! I dont know why we havent done this already,its all so simple....
20:26 September 14, 2010 by colombowayne
Islam is going to replace your Churches with mosques if you don't close your borders and to hell with what the rest of the world says. They as a whole, and the whole has the impact, will not assimilate themselves into German society. Their goal is to change it.
22:35 September 14, 2010 by JohnPaul44
Some liberal writers here would have us believe that the hordes of Muslims pouring into western countries are simply poor oppressed people desperately seeking freedom and better economic opportunities for themselves.

This is the kind of blind and unrealistic thinking that has made "mush-for-brains" a synonym for "liberal." The Muslim infiltrators have repeatedly stated, both publicly and privately, that they hate and despise western civilization and everything that it stands for. They have no desire or intention to "integrate." They boast of their plans to infiltrate, take over the weak-minded western governments, and eventually wipe out western civilization, kill all unbelievers and impose a primitive and barbaric Muslim empire on the western world.

With liberals helping them, they will succeed.
20:35 September 16, 2010 by vb74

Very well put.I will never understand why liberals push this nonsence.
15:20 September 18, 2010 by Icarusty
You cannot segregate race into stereotypes, all have lazy arses, criminals, nogooders etc. However, whites do seem to have the bulk of race supremacists. That is a dangerous thing.
18:38 September 19, 2010 by dbert4
There "liberals" are you talking about? The UK has been reverse colonized since Maggie Thatcher days. In their case I would call it, what goes around comes around.

In Germanys case, they haven't any colonies. Their problems began with them bowing to corporate pressure to import cheap labor and keep down labor costs.......hasn't worked very well has it. The corporations pocket the profits and society is stuck with the bill.
22:36 September 19, 2010 by JAMessersmith
Look, here in America there are SOME Muslims that integrate into society (there is always an exception to the rule), but there is also a large segment that view Western culture as sinful and feel that integration is an affront to their entire being. They aren't yet demanding Sharia-style courts here (See England), but that's probably because Muslims make up less than 1% of America (about 0.6%).


White supremacists only make up a small fraction of the white population. There may be more of them in total, but that's only because whites make up the vast majority of the European and American populations (about 90% combined). However, out here in California, racism is far more prevalent in black, Mexican and Asian households, especially racism against one another, because they largely aren't held to the same standards of political correctness. In the inner cities, blacks and Mexicans are practically at war, and Asians despise the whole lot of them. It's odd, because Los Angeles specifically is often referred to as a "melting pot", as if all the different races mix together, and that's true to a small extent, but more often than not the separate races form their own neighborhoods and enclaves and keep to themselves. White neighborhoods are just like they sound, mostly white. Same for black neighborhoods, Mexican neighborhoods, Asian neighborhoods, Jewish neighborhoods, etc... That's just reality.
22:53 September 19, 2010 by gcbakop
It used to be that people migrated to the 'better' countries and they could not wait to learn the new language and its customs. They even changed their strange (for the natives) hard to pronounce names to something local...millions did it after they came to the US thru the Ellis Island. The worked hard, became independent, had enough money to send their children to college. They maintained their ethnic identity, but they did it on their own - no federal dollars there.

That's what immigrants used to do, until the PC liberals thought of a better way!

I sent the link of this discussion to my friends around the US.

The part that I think hits the nail on the head is repeated here:

The long term problem for the host society is that this group continues to "celebrate" a lifestyle which lead to the "barren economies" they escaped from in the first place: Religious bigotry, animosity to education and rejection of modernity.

Bravo Maurice45 - excellent argument!

Keep it up. Us Americans are looking to you for solutions - believe it or not!
12:23 September 22, 2010 by Aschaffenburgboy
@gcbakop: Actually, most of the names were messed up by the processing officers in Ellis Island because they could not pronounce the names. And by the way, in the united states, white Americans, not blacks, not Hispanics, not Asians, are the main group which is found to lead the way in requesting and obtaining social benefits. So what is the population doing to lower those levels? Any ideas on how to solve that problem? Who are you looking for to get these answers? Also, the minorities are still the driving force of Entrepreneurship in the U.S.A. And if you ask old folks, that went to America seeking a better life, they will tell you that the reason this happened, was due to the fact they hardly were provided equal opportunities, so they decided to make those opportunities for themselves.

Though I must point out that I agree on the class of immigrants that should be allowed to enter any country, I don't agree with your insinuating - Immigrants are the problem- when in fact the entire society is the problem. I have said in a previous post, this issue needs to be tackled without race, a lazy person is lazy don't matter the cultural background, or skin color. You need the same rules for everyone, not just immigrants, or you will be labeled as a racist.
02:53 September 24, 2010 by Mitchell Young
" indeed many of its elderly German residents would probably be itching to call the police if they saw a young Muslim-looking man roving the streets."

Nice bit of ethnic slander, old horse, something similar *mutatis mutandis* directed against Muslims/Turks might find you brought on on 'incitement to racial hatred' in the UK.

As to the point of the article, the real question is why? Why does Germany have to remake itself demographically? Its unemployment is already high, there is no need for more foreign workers. What there is a need for is efforts to increase the ethnic German birthrate. Kindergeld for the natives, more flexible working hours. More maternity leave. Such measures have been proven effective in other countries. Germany should try it.

Biology matters, Germans are a successful people in large part because of their genetic heritage. Time to take positive measures to preserve and promote that heritage.
11:48 September 24, 2010 by michael4096
@Mitchell - the issue isn't mass immigration, that's already happened and, other than free movement of labour within the eu, over. The issue is integration of those already here

you also must be careful of the term "genetic heritage" in germany because it is a myth. Germany was a federation of german *speaking* states with relatively little in common genetically or even culturally. Genetically, germans are frequently closer to the people just on the other side of the boarder than they are to the other side of the country
23:22 September 25, 2010 by wxman
Excellent word the young lady in the photo wrote on the board. My recommendation would be that she and others like her learn it, follow it and incorporate it into their lives.
19:24 September 27, 2010 by recherche
Mitchell Young has the right idea. You can argue that the discord and dissention associated with recent waves of immigrants means they are a priori unsuitable. If Germany accepts immigrants there should be a very good reason for it. In the Anglophone World, and I suspect this is no surprise, a major issue is the amount of crime associated with immigrants, plus the burden on the state. Why would any well-run country add citizens who then commit serious felonies? Those responsible for facilitating this are not acting for the will of the people. Who would want that sort of behaviour? Immigration should be very tightly controlled. There are entrenched coteries of social reformers who wish only to disrupt and destroy what we have in Germany.
Today's headlines
Couple accused of torturing, murdering women go on trial
The so-called 'house of horrors' in Höxter where the couple allegedly tortured and killed women. Photo: DPA.

A couple accused of luring women to their village home with personal ads started trial on Wednesday over charges that they tortured and killed at least two of their victims.

After July attacks, govt drafts new video surveillance law
Photo: DPA

The Interior Ministry is drafting a law which will enable public spaces to be filmed for surveillance purposes as a reaction to deadly attacks in July, according to a newspaper report.

Eurowings union threatens cabin crew strike for Thursday
Photo: DPA.

A union representing cabin crews on Lufthansa's budget airline Eurowings has announced that strikes will start as of Thursday if ongoing contract negotiations continue to falter.

Merkel: murky internet giants distort perception of reality
Angela Merkel. Photo: DPA.

Chancellor Angela Merkel called on Tuesday for internet giants to make public their closely-guarded algorithms, claiming that they are not giving people diverse enough information.

Pegida leader 'paid court costs with group's money'
Pegida leader Lutz Bachmann. Photo: DPA.

The leader of the anti-Islam movement reportedly used money from Pegida's coffers to pay for two personal court cases, German media reported this week.

Anger as Berlin scraps Turkey concert on Armenia genocide
The Dresden Symphony Orchestra. Photo: DPA

Germany's foreign ministry Tuesday scrapped a planned symphony performance on the Armenian "genocide" in its Istanbul consulate, sparking accusations that it was caving in to Turkish pressure.

Obama to visit Berlin in last presidential trip to Germany
President Barack Obama and Chancellor Angela Merkel during a Berlin trip in 2013. Photo: DPA.

The White House announced on Tuesday that US President Barack Obama will be paying one last unexpected visit to the German capital - his last before he leaves office.

Hostility towards minorities 'widespread in Bavaria'
A village in southern Bavaria. Photo: DPA.

Hate and hostility towards groups deemed to be different are not just sentiments felt by fringe extremists, a new report on Bavaria shows.

Hated RB Leipzig emerge as shock challengers to Bayern
RB Leipzig. Photo: DPA

RB Leipzig's remarkable unbeaten start to the Bundesliga season has seen them suddenly emerge at the head of the pack chasing reigning champions and league leaders Bayern Munich.

Munich taxi driver in hospital after attack by British tourists
Photo: DPA

A taxi driver had to be hospitalized in Munich on Monday evening after three British tourists refused to pay their fare and then attacked him.

Germany's 10 most weird and wonderful landmarks
Sponsored Article
Last chance to vote absentee in the US elections
10 things you never knew about socialist East Germany
How Germans fell in love with America's favourite squash
How I ditched London for Berlin and became a published author
12 clever German idioms that'll make you sound like a pro
23 fascinating facts you never knew about Berlin
9 unmissable events to check out in Germany this October
10 things you never knew about German reunification
10 things you're sure to notice after an Oktoberfest visit
Germany's 10 most Instagram-able places
15 pics that prove Germany is absolutely enchanting in autumn
10 German films you have to watch before you die
6 things about Munich that’ll stay with you forever
10 pieces of German slang you'll never learn in class
Ouch! Naked swimmer hospitalized after angler hooks his penis
Six reasons why Berlin is now known as 'the failed city'
15 tell-tale signs you’ll never quite master German
7 American habits that make Germans very, very uncomfortable
Story of a fugitive cow who outwitted police for weeks before capture
Eleven famous Germans with surnames that'll make your sides split
The best ways to get a visa as an American in Germany
jobs available
Toytown Germany
Germany's English-speaking crowd