• Germany's news in English

Conservatives demand sanctions against problem immigrants

The Local · 6 Sep 2010, 12:06

Published: 06 Sep 2010 12:06 GMT+02:00

Facebook Twitter Google+ reddit

General secretary for Chancellor Angela Merkel’s conservative Christian Democrats (CDU), Hermann Gröhe, told daily Leipziger Volkszeitung that his party was taking the debate about Sarrazin’s controversial comments over immigration “very seriously.”

Sarrazin is currently under fire for claiming, among other things, that Muslim communities don’t want to integrate with mainstream Germany, that they are making the country “dumber” and that ethnic groups, such as Jews, are distinguished by particular genes.

While politicians on both sides of the issue have discredited Sarrazin’s remarks, recent polls polls have revealed that almost one-fifth of conservative voters support his ideas.

“Our policy requires integration courses and citizenship tests,” Gröhe told the paper. “We also have sanction possibilities for those who persist in refusing to integrate. These must be consistently implemented.”

The Christian Democrats must quickly address their immigration policies to “correct the failures of the past,” he added.

Deputy leader of the CDU’s parliamentary group, Michael Fuchs, also weighed in on the issue Monday, telling daily Rheinische Post that Merkel’s centre-right coalition must review parts of its integration policy.

According to Fuchs, consequences for immigrants failing to integrate have not been implemented “intensively enough.”

“When immigrant children are not sent to kindergartens or to school, then cuts to their Hartz IV welfare benefits must be sanctioned,” he told the paper.

Former President of the Bundestag, member of an immigration advisory board, and CDU member Rita Süssmuth also said that her party needed to review its ideas on the topic.

“We’re acting as if we’re addressing it for the first time,” she told daily Der Tagesspiegel. “The government is far too slow and doesn’t implement what we already know.”

Süssmuth also called for a set of criteria for foreigners hoping to come to Germany.

Story continues below…

“Germany needs creative minds from abroad,” she told the paper. “We have intentionally kept qualified workers from the job market for a long time, saying they wouldn’t allow themselves to be integrated.”

Germany needs a “paradigm shift” toward becoming a country of immigration, a phrase politicians have resisted for years, she said.


The Local (news@thelocal.de)

Facebook Twitter Google+ reddit

Your comments about this article

13:01 September 6, 2010 by Kayak
I would have thought that the immigrants ARE "part of German society" and the "immigrant children" ARE German children.

Oh, hang on a minute... now I see it clearly... it's... it's THEIR problem because they're unwelcome here.

Rita Süssmuth's on the right track. More luck to her!
13:29 September 6, 2010 by chimpansi
Most of them are German Citizens. So this should be called as racisim. Just because they look brown you call them dumb!! If I'm not mistaken 'Immigrants' are doing well in USA & Canada. So its not their problems. German system needs a change. So does Europe.
14:15 September 6, 2010 by slawek
I wonder who qualifies as problem immigrants. Given our family history during the Second World War I had to resist the German military service in the mid-90s - there is no way I would support even the idea of Germany having its own army at that time. It was only the fact that it took the court too long, that is until after my official "release" from the military service, that saved me from - at that time - at least 9 months in prison, yes real prison.

Now I've got a criminal record for resisting orders. I never checked with the police, but I would guess. (The order was to get into military uniform, so no one was endangered or anything) One would think Germany has learned from its past - you couldn't make a bigger mistake. There is this straight line of militarism and racism embedded right beneath the surface of the high society of civil servants. Such is Sarrazin is only a fraction of its subconscious surfacing.
15:02 September 6, 2010 by Clapoti
This "debate" took an "interesting" turn... I wonder where this will all lead to.
15:08 September 6, 2010 by Kayak
Just more tears before bedtime...
15:24 September 6, 2010 by Johnne
@Pas,Kayak,Chimpansi & Slawek. I thank you for your comments. I see all this as racist and the funny thing is that these politicians don´t know it...politicians in this country always think you must force everything on people or immigrants. they don´t even know that those people they´re calling immigrants are Germans. O f coure immgrant do well in other western countries, and infact european countries. If we visit Holland,France, Belgium and other prosperous european countries, we´ll se that immgrants can achieve a lot if given the chance. I went to Belgium on tueday last week, on my way back on friday,I entered a train from Frankfurt hbf to Munich. We just left Aschaffenburg when some police officers entered the train for a normal "polizei pass control" they just focused on passnger with very dark skin! ONLY black people!! ok, how will I be happy to integrate when a police officer skips all passengers on an ICE train to control just the few black people! I asked them why they weren´t asking for other passangers IDs- and one of them replied me that it is because it´s obvious we´re the non germans on the train, I asked why?? he said it is obvious! Is that not discrimination? it is of course discouraging! dicouraging!
15:33 September 6, 2010 by dacarch
I have to admit, that even with his views being stereotypical, there is, as is usually the case with stereotypes, a hint of truth.

I am an immigrant, I came to this country and my intention was to integrate while keeping my identity intact. I went to an integration course as a first step in this process. I was in a small classroom with other immigrants, and let me tell you, most of the muslims there had no intention of integrating... I was there, I saw it first hand. In my bad german I spoke to them during breaks, and as far as I could tell and hear, they were milking the country, and would do so until they could. With what they get from the state, they could live quite comfortably. Some had very good clothes on, (not cheap) and yet they had not worked for years in some cases... I wondered how that was possible.

There has to be a limit to how much and for how long taxpayers and the state should support immigrants, or it will be harder for others to come and have a chance at a life here.

I am now a contributing member of this society, I pay taxes and have a good job in my field. It was hard, and I am still learning, but I am happy and productive. I assure you if I were to come back to visit this intergation school today, I would find them all there, doing the same thing, smoking "imported" cigarretes, drinking between breaks and mocking the teacher with no interest in learning. You tell me... is that fair?
15:46 September 6, 2010 by chimpansi
Johnne, I have gone through that. Yes it hurts. But you will eventually get used to it.

dacarch, yes there are bad apples but there are some real good ones too. You will find the good ones silently making major contribution in every German organization and research institutes. It requires tact to handle multi-culture environment. Enforcement simply doesnt work. Rather they will have to win hearts and minds.
15:49 September 6, 2010 by Jason2
Pas,Kayak,Chimpansi, Slawek & Johnne... I hope these guys are joking...

I mean WHAT? Other European countries have no problems with this topic? Give me a brake!

Belgium is going crazy! There are hole areas in this country where you will get HUNTED DOWN if your not muslim and there are parts where no policeman will go.

Even in so ueber tollerand countries like Switzerland we just saw what they all think about this muslimworld (minarets poll).

Seriously. I hope this is not the way the Local community is heading but this only show that the smart members are still at work...
15:56 September 6, 2010 by catjones
The Sarrazins of the world never air their own dirty laundry. Why doesn't he point to the East germans who never assimilated? Or how about the gene defected german high school drop outs? What about the german parasites living on a life-long dole? Or the german drunk on the corner peeing in the bushes? We've all see these examples of true deutsche-blut born, but somehow Sarrazin forgot to include them his degeneration of the german race.
16:05 September 6, 2010 by Johnne
It´s always funny when people like Jason2 come here and just open their mouths to insult people and embarrass themselves. who said other countries don´t have their own issues here? I think some people believe this forum,this country, and the world at large belong to them alone and they say,do or think whatever they want, and believe they´re the only "smart" people here. you may have the right to oppose what I said about my experince on the train if you´re black. Are you black Jason2? have experienced what hapened to me on that train before? listen my friend, don´t come and add petrol into the already burning fire here. what we should be doing here is sharing views not turning them away. You would understand me properly and rather not comment if you truly see yourself as a member of this community. You´re not the police officers or sarrazin so cool down and bear with how "immigrants" feel about racism.
16:14 September 6, 2010 by chimpansi
Jason2, No I'm not joking. Yes its a European problem. But its bit exaggerated in Germany.

You cant let muslims in and deny them a place of worship.

Forget muslims. There are lot of other educated immigrants. Try making a list of immigrants in top positions in German companies or GEZ funded TV network?? You cant get bright mind and kill their aspirations. Why would anyone integrate in this environment?? I'm a immigrant making all the bloody contributions and I'm really pissed with this open version of racism. It sucks. I certainly donot want to be part of this society & I'm certainly leaving once my contract gets over.
16:22 September 6, 2010 by Tomreal
Oh yes, when they see that Sarrazin becomes popular they are just trying to get points from the people. This has been seen too many times...
16:22 September 6, 2010 by michael4096
Just for curiosity: can anybody think of time with one law for one group and a different law for everybody else - and the outcome was good?
17:16 September 6, 2010 by Kayak

Here's an example that allows diversity within the law and in so doing allows for diverse outcomes within a single system of law.


Aboriginal Circle Sentencing in Australia

23:15 September 6, 2010 by William Thirteen
in other news "Immigrants Demand Sanctions Against Problem Conservatives."
04:12 September 7, 2010 by janreg58
I'm American, and I live in Florida. I used to live in California and let me tell you, the immigrants of today are a completely different breed of immigrant. They come here with their hands out, taking whatever they can get. Most of them don't ever intend to become citizens, I know because I work with alot of them and that's all I hear.They are collecting their checks from the system and saving for their return to their countries. They take minimal paying jobs and pop out kids so they can get a fat tax check at the end of the year. These people own homes in their countries that they are collecting rent from. They bring what they are trying to get away from here, like gangs, drugs and anything else illegal. I believe everyone has the right to improve themselves, but not at the tax payers expense. If we didn't have all these people abusing the system, this country wouldn't be in the condition it's in. Don't get me wrong, there are ALOT of Americans abusing the "system" too, and something needs to be done about them too. Their too fat, or their backs hurt, or some other stupid reason. I've always believed that you shouldn't expect to be given everything. America is a melting pot alright, it's melting straight to hell.
09:59 September 7, 2010 by Aschaffenburgboy
I believe that the "fix" for the "trouble immigrants" is to apply one solution to the entire nation. No more free rides, no more milking the system, don't matter what your background is. If you fix the broken social net that is called H4, while at the same time reforming immigration laws, this topic would be a non issue.

I have been in the same shoes as dacarch, and he is correct. There are many people here that just want to milk the system. But the problem is, there are also many Germans who just want to milk the system, the nation only chooses to focus on the immigrants.

I, personally, am disgusted when I see these idiots (Germans or non-Germans) doing the bare minimum in order to keep their social benefits, which in turn just means more taxes on the working population. I am not German, but after living here for a few years, and having a half German son, I consider myself part of the German society, and I want a better future for my son as well as the Nation.

Address the relaxed well fare laws, reform immigration, while at the same time implementing strict Equal Employment Opportunities regulations, and end of the story. The more the German Government tries addressing this as an immigrant problem, the more "racist" they seem. This is a problem that has to be tackled on all different sides.
12:29 September 7, 2010 by tallady
Immigration,when the immigrants are non Christian with there vast cultural differences and unskilled ,is a much bigger problem than immigration from Christian countries.

This type of diversity leeds to a break down of Unity and Culture. I have read where some say ,If you have a German passport you are German,,I believe you are a citizen of Germany,but you need the "Family Book" to be a real German.America is a country founded by immigrants ,built by immigrants for immigrants ,Germany is a country of Germans built by Germans for Germans ,not the same nor will it ever be.

One melting pot in the world is enough ,and as previously stated a" melting away to hell", You can open the doors to the world ,but you need to be prepared for the consequences..,

I believe Germany needs immigrants ,but skilled immigrants that will become employed immediately not those that draw off the social system that is already under pressure...

The idea of a point system similar to Australia would be the best,as it selects immigrants based on their needs to fill employment ,these persons become contributors not wards of the State.
13:12 September 7, 2010 by Jason2
Johnne, "who said other countries don´t have their own issues here?" Well maybe you should read your post again. It clearly implys that other european countries don't have these issues and are not racist. And that is - with all the respect - BS.

But hey, your black, plus you just went true an uncool situation. So what am I expacting? Your emotional about this hole topic and you judge because of one thing that happend to you. This again, is BS. But its humen, so im not blaming you.

And you say it's racism because only the one with dark skin draw attention from the trainguys? well guess what, that not racisms, thats experience. read the book of this femal berlin judge who just killer herselfe. its a fact that person with "darker skin" are more criminal. you call its rasiscm, i call it acting on facts. but in the end, it is what it is: its the same in every country, but you only made that experience in germany, so in your eyes, germans are the bad guys right now.

chimpansi, im sorry to tell you, but your just plain wrong. its not a bigger problem in germany. its the opposit, in belgium and holland the situation was/is out of controle!

But hey, you seem to have your opinions and you don't mind about facts so i think we can end this discussion right here because there is no sence anyway.

still its funny to see how the view on this hole sarrazin-case changed because of one, bad written articel. I mean, THIS is exactly what everyone was talking about a couple days before here on thelocal. that things have to change, that the turks need to do something and so on. but now, look at this. priceless.
14:02 September 7, 2010 by Eastard

Keep in mind that the laws of Islam are good for Muslims and the laws of the free world are good for Muslims..... Exactly how could they loose....? The free world needs to have a dialog itself against it's own country goals on this difference and determine how to deal with this imbalance... A Muslim cannot change to free world standards without dropping Islam... period... At some point this will be enough of a problem for the average citizen that new immigration standards will be drawn ... no to require religious isolation but to define Muslim conduct in a non-Muslim country... It will either be acceptable or stay home... Our clerics are not judges.

Keep in mind that the differences between Islam and most all other religions are dramatic.. Islam has no tolerance for any other religion and accepts the binding judgement of it's clerics to declare life threatening activities against citizens (stone to death, jihad, etc)... Islam is not just a religion it is a culture and a way of life.. Understanding it will help Germany/the world better in dealing with it's negative influnce.
16:32 September 7, 2010 by lovelybug
Interesting discussions on the Local , as always. Most striking is the knowledge of most of the people about Islam. Being a Muslim , and German citizen ( and definitely being well educated. If you call Masters as high education :) ) it is always funny to read these comments.

@Eastard : In Islam the clerics are definitely not judges. There are always courts in the Muslim countries that decide the matter. When a cleric says something it is his own opinion. It is not necessary for the Government or people to follow it.

Regarding all the discussion , i think it is better that Germany should improve its laws and it should be for all. The biggest mistake Germany made is that they did not put proper control on their immigration policy. They invited the totally uneducated labour class from Turkey. How can you expect them to be doctors , Engineers or scientists??? Even after that there was no serious effort to integrate them. Now all Muslims are being labelled as ignorant , uneducated etc etc.

I think there should be serious efforts to integrate them. No body should allow to milk the system. It is also painful for me when almost half of my salary goes to the government every month and I see people getting money without doing work. But to label all the immigrants like this is also unjust.
17:25 September 7, 2010 by Kayak
I totally agree with lovelybug. Well written and well spelt ("spelled" US).

I wonder how some of the anti-Muslim contributors to this discussion can focus their attention long enough to type more than three words but some of them clearly try real hard.
17:32 September 7, 2010 by lovelybug
A very interesting article from der Spiegel also


Number of Turks leaving germany is growing every year. So the hate towards the immigrants is driving the "educated class" of immigrants out of the country.


A friend of mine who was PHD ( and a Muslim) and was teaching in a German university just left couple of weeks ago for good to teach in a Saudi Arabian university :) Funny na :)
18:54 September 7, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Jason2 --

Before pontificating on this or any other subject, it might be advisable to take a remedial third-grade spelling course. One cannot expect to be taken seriously on any topic when one demonstrates one's illiteracy.
02:27 September 8, 2010 by janreg58
08:07 September 8, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Your CAPS LOCK key seems to be stuck.
08:51 September 8, 2010 by Kayak
The pathology of hate is easy to detect. That this illness of mind is encouraged by politically motivated opportunists is the real problem.

Regarding recent comments, I don't know what is worse: not knowing how to spell or being as unfortunate as one who cannot afford to buy a keyboard that doesn¦#39;t have a broken CAPS LOCK key.

The lunatics are out this week...
12:26 September 8, 2010 by DinhoPilot

Like you wisely said, Germans have some kind of gift to "kick out" the educated class of immigrants and to leave the ones that will eventually depend on H4. Integration is a a complex matter here, cause I bet not many germans would be happy to have an auslander as their boss or superior for that matter. I believe there is a problem with many who integrate, BUT also with those educated and integrate who are put down because they are "different" and shouldn't have good jobs.

"The highest position I saw a Turk was in a donner shop in top of a building." (just kidding, joke, no stress!)

I'm not a Turk or pro turk immigration but I do understand both sides. The ones who stubbornly don't want to learn the language and wanna live from good ol H4 and the ones who want to but are not given a fair chance to prove themselves. Hard live...

At least Sarrazins managed to make people speak out what goes in their hearts, end of hipocrisy and political correctness. His bank account must be going up like a thermometer in a sunny day in the desert! ^^

I can imagine his face to face smile, and then having his good beer and kebab from his favorite donner shop! LOL!
22:01 September 9, 2010 by Justiceiro
The idea that Turks can never reach high positions is incorrect. I know a great many people at a certain large chemical company, and more than a few are Turks. One of them manages about 40 people and makes a great deal of money.

If you think the commentary here about immigrants who refuse to assimilate is harsh, you should hear what she has to say about them. It's worse, I assure you. I doubt, as she is a Muslim, that she criticizes them out of Islamophobia.
Today's headlines
These are Germany's top ten universities
The new library of Freiburg University. Photo: Jörgens.mi / Wikimedia Commons

These are the best universities in all of Germany - at least according to one ranking.

Introducing Swabians - 'the Scots of Germany'
Photo: DPA

These Southern Germans have quite a reputation in the rest of the country.

Woman sues dentist over job rejection for headscarf
Photo: DPA

A dentist in Stuttgart is being taken to court by a woman whom he rejected for a job as his assistant on the basis that she wears a Muslim headscarf.

Isis suspect charged with scouting Berlin attack sites
Photo: DPA

German federal prosecutors said Thursday they had brought charges against a 19-year-old Syrian man accused of having scouted targets in Berlin for a potential attack by the Isis terror group.

Berlin Holocaust memorial could not be built now: creator
The Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe, in Berlin. Photo: DPA.

The architect of the Berlin Holocaust memorial has said that, if he tried to build the monument again today, it would not be possible due to rising xenophobia and anti-Semitism in Germany and the United States.

'Liberal' Germany stopping Europe's 'slide into barbarism'
Ian Kershaw. Photo: DPA

Europe is not slipping into the same dark tunnel of hate and nationalism that it did in the 1930s - mainly thanks to Germany - one of the continent's leading historians has said.

Eurowings strike to hit 40,000 passengers
Travelers impacted by the strike on Thursday wait at Cologne Bonn airport. Photo: DPA.

The day-long strike by a Eurowings cabin crew union is expected to impact some 40,000 passengers on Thursday as hundreds of flights have been cancelled.

Deutsche Bank reports surprise quarter billion profit
Photo: DPA

Troubled German lender Deutsche Bank reported Thursday a surprise €256-million profit in the third quarter, compared with a loss of more than six billion in the same period last year.

US 'warned Merkel' against Chinese takeover of tech firm
Aixtron HQ. Photo: DPA

The German government withdrew its approval for a Chinese firm to purchase Aixtron, which makes semiconductor equipment, after the US secret services raised security concerns, a German media report said Wednesday.

Long-vanished German car brand joins electric race
Photo: DPA

Cars bearing the stamp of once-defunct manufacturer Borgward will once again roll off an assembly line in north Germany from 2018, the firm said Wednesday.

10 German clichés that foreigners get very wrong
Sponsored Article
Last chance to vote absentee in the US elections
10 ways German completely messes up your English
Germany's 10 most weird and wonderful landmarks
10 things you never knew about socialist East Germany
How Germans fell in love with America's favourite squash
How I ditched London for Berlin and became a published author
12 clever German idioms that'll make you sound like a pro
23 fascinating facts you never knew about Berlin
9 unmissable events to check out in Germany this October
10 things you never knew about German reunification
10 things you're sure to notice after an Oktoberfest visit
Germany's 10 most Instagram-able places
15 pics that prove Germany is absolutely enchanting in autumn
10 German films you have to watch before you die
6 things about Munich that’ll stay with you forever
10 pieces of German slang you'll never learn in class
Ouch! Naked swimmer hospitalized after angler hooks his penis
Six reasons why Berlin is now known as 'the failed city'
15 tell-tale signs you’ll never quite master German
7 American habits that make Germans very, very uncomfortable
Story of a fugitive cow who outwitted police for weeks before capture
jobs available
Toytown Germany
Germany's English-speaking crowd