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Public support for Sarrazin puts politicians in spin

The Local · 5 Sep 2010, 12:13

Published: 05 Sep 2010 12:13 GMT+02:00

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The survey, conducted by Emnid pollsters for the Bild am Sonntag newspaper, showed that 18 percent of Germans would vote for a political party headed by the Bundesbank board member.

He has created a furore in Germany with assertions about Muslim immigrants to Germany failing to integrate, and what he insists is a genetic element to intelligence – and the astounding proposal that people of a common religion are genetically related.

His theory is that genetically stupid immigrants are making Germany increasingly stupid as they are multiplying faster than Germans – and refusing to integrate into German society.

These kind of ideas seem to be welcomed by many conservative voters, with 17 percent of Christian Democrat Union (CDU) or Christian Social Union (CSU) voters telling pollsters they would vote for him if he were to establish a political party.

He appears to be even more popular among left-wing Die Linke supporters, with 29 percent saying they would vote for him.

The Social Democratic Party (SPD) is trying to throw Sarrazin out, although he says he loves the party and intends to remain a member. Yet its efforts to get rid of him are only damaging its image, according to Manfred Güllner, head of another pollster firm, Forsa.

He said the focus on Sarrazin – who used to be state finance senator for Berlin – could cost the SPD dear in next year’s Berlin state election.

“The SPD is spending so much energy on the exclusion of Sarrazin, but not on the concerns, fears and needs of the Berliners,” Güllner told the Berlin Kurier paper on Sunday.

He said Berlin mayor Klaus Wowereit looks particularly bad for his attacks on Sarrazin, having worked with him in the capital’s government. “He supported him for years and used his abilities. Now he is damning him. It is not believable.”

Leading conservative politicians this weekend called for a more open discussion of integration policy, with some criticising Chancellor Angela Merkel for her dismissive attitude towards Sarrazin’s comments.

She described them as ‘completely unacceptable’ and has added to pressure for him to be dismissed from his post at the Bundesbank.

Yet Bavaria state interior minister Joachim Herrmann of the CSU said, “It would be wrong to now damn everything that Sarrazin says.”

Some of Sarrazin’s theories were awful, he said, but added, “But where there are problems, we clearly have to address them.”

Head of the CDU’s Baden-Württemberg state parliamentary party, Peter Hauk, also said that many Union supporters very much agreed with what Sarrazin had been saying. It would not be acceptable to simply criticise him, said Hauk. Instead the Berlin CDU leadership should more clearly identify problems with immigration and take tougher action on integration policies, he said.

Even Defence Minister Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg, from the CSU, called for an intensive investigation of Sarrazin’s theories. An open, broad discussion was needed, he said, adding that the issues that Sarrazin had described were important to people in Germany.

The Bundesbank has armed itself with legal opinion in its preparation to try to remove Sarrazin from the board. According to Der Spiegel magazine this weekend, it has a 20-page report on Sarrazin’s public comments since he took office in 2009.

His interviews and the reaction to them during the last year or so will be used to show he has broken his employment contract, which stipulates that he must remain moderate and reserved in relation to the public in order to preserve the dignity of the job.

Story continues below…

Federal President Christian Wulff is considering the Bundesbank’s request for him to dismiss Sarrazin – something he has already signalled his willingness to do.

Yet Sarrazin has already taken the initiative in this matter, calling for a personal audience with the president.

“The federal president will have to consider very carefully, whether he wants to carry out a kind of political show trial, which would later be quashed by the courts,” he said in Focus magazine.

It was also reported this weekend that Sarrazin had informed his colleagues on the Bundesbank board in writing last month that he was about to publish his controversial book Deutschland schafft sich ab - Wie wir unser Land aufs Spiel setzen, or “Abolishing Germany - How we’re putting our country at jeopardy.”

The report in the Bild am Sonntag newspaper said that neither Bundesbank president Axel Weber nor other board members reacted to the letter, or found out about the content of the book.

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

14:58 September 5, 2010 by saucymugwump
Sarrazin never said that Jews should be abused or put in ovens. He merely stated a fact known to sociologists, that Jews score higher than the average on IQ tests; the average is 100 and Jews score 105. If people disagree, they should give an alternative reason for the IQ discrepancy.

His comments on Muslims are based on observation. Muslims refuse to assimilate. Here in the USA, Europeans, Mexicans, Koreans, and other ethnic groups can hardly be differentiated because they all wear jeans, carry cellphones, and listen to the same terrible music. Muslim women and girls, on the other hand, wear sacks and/or scarves and in general act and appear no different than Saudi Arabian women; and they believe their right to wear a scarf and/or veil trumps all other considerations. Muslim taxi drivers refuse to carry passengers carrying dogs and/or alcohol because they see no separation between Islam and the world, i.e. they believe they have the right to enforce Islamic rules on infidels.

15:51 September 5, 2010 by recherche
I admire his fortitude in speaking his mind. If people do not engage with those who share his opinions there will only be simmering frustration and resentment which will explode later. It seems the fashionable thought of the times dictates that such criticism is to be curtly dismissed without further comment. That is not right in a free country. And it unwise in my view.

The minority reactions to adverse comments are just inappropriate. A comment about Islam causes strident screams of racism. A remark about Israeli treatment of Palestinians causes cries of anti-Semitism. It is like pressing a button and getting reflex response that kills off further discussion. More people should protest that that is not acceptable. There must be criticism and useful dialogue. In all European countries it appears that minority groups like Moslems, Hindus and Jews wall themselves off, ignore the majority citizens and stubbornly refuse to make any cultural concessions. That should not be passively accepted in my view.

The line in the article about people of common religion being genetically related is misplaced. A large number of people would say that geography determines religion, and that religion is more to do with social bonding than individual spirituality. Someone said that religion is to do with herd-instinct. If one is raised in Delhi, one is a Hindu. In Stockholm, a Christian. In Baghdad, a Moslem. Religion is a part of culture, just as clothing, appearance, language are a part of culture. If one is raised in Ankara, one is not presented with a list of World religions from which to choose.
19:01 September 5, 2010 by pepsionice
They should just go ahead and fire the guy....then watch twenty percent of the public flip over to another new political party. It might be interesting to watch how both the CDU and SPD would kiss up to each other and act all kind.

What a bunch of political losers....if any country deserved a tea party....it's Germany.
19:25 September 5, 2010 by bella5
I think he is speaking for a lot of Germans and Europeans. He isn't afraid to speak his mind like others. He is really saying what a lot of people want to say. I am not German but I live here, work here and pay my tax. Religion causes such a lot of problems.
20:56 September 5, 2010 by mockingbird
for all europeans that will read my post

I am a christian and I live in a middle eastern country where islam is the dominant religion. I'm talking from a daily experience about this matter.

what I find really funny while watching europeans TV is how europeans see islam as simply "just another religion"

just like secularism worked to blur/erase the boundaries between different religions in europe they think it will do the same with muslims and they will simply integrate and adopte mdernity and western ethics and values -

they just don't know that this is impossible for muslim to do because secularism contradicts Islam in every aspect. They are two different paths that never meet. choosing one means rejecting the other. Hence, whoever chooses Islam has to reject secularism or the opposite.

secularism makes lawful what Allah has made unlawful.

secularism rejects Allah's rules with no exception and prefers regulations other than Allah's and His Messenger's.

I feel pitty for such the great civilisations of europe still "swallow" millions of muslim immigrants that will never never integrate because they see europeans as a bunch of inferiors, immoral and homosexuals.

hopefully you will wake up before too late....

21:24 September 5, 2010 by wood artist
Ultimately, the question is simply this:

Do the western democracies, founded upon freedom of religion along with many other freedoms, including speech, stay the course and acknowledge that some will abuse or use those freedoms in ways that other find unacceptable and offensive, or do they point to the objects of their disagreement and use them as justification for giving up those freedoms?

It is true that most Islamic countries have severe limitations on the presence and practice of other religions. Does that justify giving up that freedom in Germany, the United States, or anywhere else?

It is true that some immigrants don't seem to make much effort to fit in to the culture and mores where they have asked to live. What is the expectation for these folks? If one of us moved to the Middle East, how much would we be willing to change?

At some point, the decision to be made is to rise above that which we don't believe is fair, or simply fall down and do the same things that we abhor in others. Do we want to bring the world up, or simply give up our ideals?

There are no easy answers, and it is often tempting to take the easy way..."they do it so why can't we?" I hope the better answer is that by sharing freedoms we make it more likely others will observe our actions and emulate them. I have no illusion that Islam will suddenly become tolerant. I know that hating Islam will never help it change.

Germany, better than anyone, knows the dangers of allowing hatred and fear to take hold. By the same token, Germany learned about democracy, and embraced it, when the Lüftbrucke demonstrated what people would do to help others, even those who had recently been "enemies."

21:55 September 5, 2010 by mockingbird
it is true that restriction and opression is not the answer BUT

it might be a good idea to limit the silent demographic invasion by diversifying the source - Just like any other business

to gap their demographic decline europe can tap the big reserve of south america or east asia

they are doing it in spain and italy and it seems to be working

a paragayan will integrate seemlessly in one generation but a turk or algerian will not even after 3 generations

I'm not analysing I'm talking FACTS
00:36 September 6, 2010 by William Thirteen
and you can tell because it is written in all caps!
01:00 September 6, 2010 by Irenes
I'm a muslim my self from a country in South East Asia and the people who have abused me verbally are the Arabs and the Turkish. They would call out name when I pass them by with 'arigato' or 'nihauma' and when I ignore them they would call me w*ore in Arabic. A 16-year old boy came up to me and told me I had an appointment with him for 5 Euros! What kind of Muslim parents would rise their kids to be to such an a*shole? Now I'm so glad that Sarrazin open a discussion about these people because he's totally right, these Arabs who are hypocrites cause a lot of problems. I have seen other immigrant integrated successfully in Germany but not the Arabs. These problems caused by these people need to be addressed accordingly. There are three kind of Arabs living in Germany. Small percentage of them is well-integrated. And big percentage of them don't wanna integrate them selves and the last one are made of two kinds, the muslim fanatic ones and the a'sshole ones.
10:56 September 6, 2010 by Prufrock2010
It seems that the Germans are once again poised to import the worst of American culture. This time it's the know-nothing "tea party" populist movement. Germany and America are both ripe for the reopening of concentration camps.
11:34 September 6, 2010 by Darrell
Sarrazin is basically right on the integration, or non-integration, of muslims. They won't integrate because the rest (non-muslims) are basically infidel scum in their eyes!

But I can see how you Germans produced Hitler though...lol.
11:57 September 6, 2010 by catjones
The Sarrazins of the world never air their own dirty laundry. Why doesn't he point to the East germans who never assimilated? Or how about the gene defected german high school drop outs? What about the german parasites living on a life-long dole? Or the german drunk on the corner peeing in the bushes? We've all see these examples of true deutsche-blut born, but somehow Sarrazin forgot to include them his degeneration of the german race.
12:29 September 6, 2010 by michael4096
@saucy - I would guess the reason nobody has given any reason why jews are so much more intelligent is that your arguments are totally wrong..

1. there is no agreed measurement of intelligence. About the only thing that researchers in this area agree on is that the intelligence quotient (IQ) you quote is not a good measure

2. there are tremendous problems accurately and consistently measuring something that changes not only between groups doing the measuring and being measured but even on a individual basis depending on health, feeling of well-being and other personal factors. Generally, a pre-election poll gives an accuracy level of 3-6% on a simple question like "who would you vote for today"; the statistical error for intelligence testing is far greater and all your figures are statistically exactly the same within error bounds - they prove nothing

3. jews carry common genetic traits (not a jew gene) which is not surprising since they have been accidentally managing their gene pool for centuries by keeping marriage in-the-family, so to speak. So what? Tall people carry a common genetic trait also; so do many ethnic groups, many disease sufferers, people with green eyes and so on. This has nothing to do with intelligence

4. there is nothing in your argumentation specific to germany and a lot less than you think specific to muslims: my mother insists on wearing a headscarf for religious reasons - and she's christian; last week in the uk a christian townhall worker was fired for refusing to marry two people, part of her job, because of religion - they were homosexuals

Some muslims do cause trouble by insisting that they are so right they should make others do as they do, believe as they believe etc - I believe that sarrazin is doing exactly the same - it isn't a muslim trait
17:24 September 6, 2010 by theMaggiSauce
Let him be stoned to DEATH! Infront of the Bundesbank
19:52 September 6, 2010 by Der Grenadier aus Aachen
Yeah, stoning people to death because they're jerks. That sounds like a great plan.
22:36 September 6, 2010 by Logic Guy
Well, there is a clear connection between liberlism and every problem humans have ever encountered.

And If you were to ask most people in most Western countries their preference of government, most would say a conservative government, but one that is based upon "Real Conservatism."

In America, the republicans are in some ways even more liberal than the democratics. And so the solution for all Western nations is very simple: Fully commit to Real Conservatism, the type that is a reflection of the Universe / God. I'm absolutely sure, beyond even a shred of doubt, that this is the answer to all of humanity's troubles.
23:03 September 6, 2010 by DinhoPilot

Thank you for one of the best and most reasonable comments here.

Sarazzin likes to talk let thim. Seems like we are always looking for ways to fight each other, to denegrate each other to, make some feel superior or inferior! I agree muslims should integrate better (And by that I don't mean adopting sex, drugs and rock n' roll liberalism we have now...). But I also believe it's up to germans to help their immigrants to integrate better (by braking their xenophobic, point of views of immigrants)...
01:02 September 7, 2010 by Prufrock2010
And there's something wrong with sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll? They all work for me, brother.
07:00 September 7, 2010 by Biorealist

Actually, there are pretty good measures of intelligence and Ashkenazi Jews consistently average about 2/3 of a standard deviation above other europeans. This is most likely due to selection for cognitively demanding roles.

G. Cochran, J. Hardy, H. Harpending, Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence, Journal of Biosocial Science 38 (5), pp. 659­693 (2006).

10:29 September 7, 2010 by markoer

That study does not demonstrate anything. You can do similar studies for many other ethnic group. (and indeed, there are). Still the purpose you are using them is misleading - exactly like Sarrazin is doing - because genetic selection in the Middle Age does not mean that people with a common religion have common genes. This is very, very far reaching. In the same way I can say I am a German Arian because Longobards Barbarians have invaded Italy in the Middle Age and it is demonstrated that generic pools or people from Tuscany are mainly descendant from them. That is of course all bullshit, mentioned on purpose to make a point that is ultimately nothing more than racist.

The Jews of the Middle East share the same genetic pool of the Palestinian living in the same zone (what a surprise, LOL!!!). Then also Muslim have a higher IQ. At the end, the most dumb are the Christians? :-)

At the end, all of this does not answer the main topic: what is intelligence? IQ measurement is bullshit, exactly like the Body Mass Index measurement for physical fitness. It takes an arbitrary measurement and makes it the most important. Exactly like the BMI of a body builder will make him appear as overweight (because the BMI does not distinguish fat from muscles - you can see how scientific it is!!!) at the same time the IQ does not take in consideration much more than mathematics and linguistic abilities. From these measurement, Beethoven and Mozart would be idiots.

These are just faulty measurements used by people who are too intellectually lazy to actually discuss the tools they are using.

About the argument that Islam is against secularism - this is bullshit too. People should learn to distinguish between religion and social conventions and laws. So called "Islamic" countries imposes certain practices that we in the "west" perceive as archaic. But this has very little to do with religion. Religion is just the medium used to impose them.

Have a nice day
13:31 September 7, 2010 by Jazzineva
I'm quite saddened about the way many people are using Sarrazin's comments as a way to express a type of rage which fuels racism and heats a fire making integration policies even more difficult. In just about every culture and religion there are people who take extreme positions and refuse to compromise or integrate with others. This is their right as long as they remain law abiding within the countries they inhabit.

At the same time we have rights to express anger and hate for anything or anyone we don't like. However, is it helpful to keep the peace? Does it help us get along better? Does it further a just and respectful atmosphere? In the case of Sarrazin, I believe he turned the clock backwards from what his country and his party are seeking to achieve. Therefore, he doesn't deserve to remain in a position of high responsibility and leadership. Of course, he can say whatever he wants - he has that right. But in a way he yelled "fire" in a crowded theater. And I don't mind that he got thrown out of that theater in the least.
19:10 September 7, 2010 by Avidror
@ mockingbird

As a Spaniard I can confirm that it's true that in Spain the backgrounds of the inmigrants are diversified: we have muslims from the Middle East, North Africa and Sub-Saharan Africa, but we also have people from Latin America, Eastern Europe, China and countries of the European Union.

The largest group is that of the Latin Americans, which surpasses that of the muslims. But we haven't accepted them in order to diversify our inmigrant population and avoid a muslim demographic threat, as you have suggested before. The inmigration into Spain from Latin America is the result firstly of Spanish ties with the region, which is composed by former Spanish colonies which share a common past, language and religion with us as a result; and secondly, because during the first half of the twentieth century Spain was a poor country with many people who left Spain.

What were the consequences of these facts? Latin American countries are poor, and Spain is a rich country (in spite of the current economic crisis). So form many people from Latin America emigration has become a necessity, and Spain is the best chance for them due to these reasons: we share the same language and religion; we have double nationality treaties with many of those countries; and many Spanish emigrants to former richer countries such as Argentina, as well as their descendants, want to return (every son or grandson of a Spaniard is granted automatic Spanish citizenship, regardless of his country of origin, such as Chile or Switzerland).

All of that (historical, linguistical, religious, legal and migration ties) is the main cause of Spanish absorption of Latin Americans, not the threat which derives from muslim inmigration.

All of this doesn't mean you're not right when you denounce muslim attitudes towards who and what they perceive as enemies of Islam.
21:41 September 7, 2010 by elke77
Sarrazin's crime was not bigotry, it was that he aggressively criticized disastrous government policy.

This same policy has failed all over Europe and the backlash will be fierce. Those who are to blame are the same fools who point at Sarrazin crying "racism".
05:41 September 8, 2010 by MichaelMolenaar
I fully support Sarrazin.
07:23 September 8, 2010 by mockingbird

I fully agree with your post it is true that spain and italy are attracting latam immigrants due to historical/language reasons but you have 25 millions people of german origin in brazil only - they have german surnames and few still speak some kind of german dialect as the first language till this day...

irrespective of the above the US and canada are attracting thousands and millions of indians and chinese that have no ties whatsoever with the american way of life or language or religion....

a lot of people from all over the world are ready to move if they are given the chance

what the point of getting more muslims when all stats prove they will never integrate in a western society that they see as "immorale"

12:13 September 8, 2010 by DinhoPilot
"Infidel, convert or fill the consequences...." - LOL

Maybe tracking the ones that tend to be extremist and to the ones that might be problematic. Another solution (which seem many Sar fans are kind of defending) is to prohibited them to "do" their religion partially or completely (Highly inconstitutional and I'm already seem mobs burning cars) and to force them to high bratwurst and to have pet dogs! Also the goverment could try to convert them... so in the end in short time there isn't any good solution to the problem... How can we define integration? Denial of one believes? Or just being able to live according to the law and certain cultural features of the host country?
20:07 September 8, 2010 by Avidror
@ mockingbird

"what the point of getting more muslims when all stats prove they will never integrate in a western society that they see as 'immorale'"...

I agree with that. I only wrote about the motive you suggested for Spanish absorption of non-muslim inmigrants.
16:09 September 13, 2010 by Johann USA
Europe and America must stop the influx of Muslim immigration into their countries period. Muslims do not integrate the infiltrate. Support the foundation, culture and values of your own countries. Secure your borders.
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