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Poles, Romanians and Americans lead immigration to Germany

The Local · 26 May 2010, 11:06

Published: 26 May 2010 11:06 GMT+02:00

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A total of 721,000 foreigners immigrated to the country in 2009, up 39,000 from the previous year, the German Statistics Office (Destatis) reported on Wednesday. It was also the first time the numbers of immigrants topped 700,000 since 2005.

Main countries of origin were Poland (123,000), Romania (56,000), the United States (30,000), Turkey (30,000) und Bulgaria (29,000).

The highest number of immigrants, 146,000, moved to the most populous state in Germany, North Rhine-Westphalia. The other two most popular states were southern Baden-Württemberg and Bavaria, which each gained 122,000 new residents from abroad.

Among those who immigrated, 606,000 were considered to be foreign – an increase of six percent from 2008. About 58 percent of these people were from other European Union countries.

The rest of the immigrants, numbering 115,000, were returning ethnic Germans. Their numbers were also shown to rise by some 6,000 from the previous year, Destatis reported.

Story continues below…

However, despite the increase, the number of immigrants did not make up for those leaving the country. In 2009, about 734,000 people left Germany - creating a deficit of 13,000. Their main destinations were Poland, Romania, Turkey, the United States and Switzerland.

Destatis stressed that migration numbers reveal no background on the motivations behind the figures. The statistics also can’t explain whether a person’s move was permanent or not, the office said.

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Your comments about this article

12:25 May 26, 2010 by darwiniandemon
Are these landed immigrants that will eventually get citizenship or merely permanent residents that stay for an indefinite amount of time? 30k from Turkey seems a little light.
13:39 May 26, 2010 by Prufrock2010
I moved here for the climate. All that sunshine in Southern California drives you nuts after a while. There's nothing quite like 6 or 7 straight months of rain, cold and light deprivation to make you really appreciate Germany.
13:58 May 26, 2010 by jetjock04
If 6 or 7 months of rain, cold and light deprivation were really true...Germany would still be a better place to live than California...
14:15 May 26, 2010 by Prufrock2010
If it were "really true?" Apparently you didn't spend the last 8 months in Germany.
14:26 May 26, 2010 by JohnnesKönig
I have lived in Southern California, Florida and Germany. It is hot in both states, but the humidity in Florida is unbearable at times... I always get the question "Why would you want to leave Florida for Germany?".... Gegenteil!
15:25 May 26, 2010 by Talonx
@ Mr. Nosey

Army personal are not included to my understanding. Though I have known many servicemen that choose to leave the States and immigrate after service (which says a fair bit about the U.S. in my opinion)

@ darwiniandemon

The only way 30K from Turkey seems light is if you buy all the xenophobic hype.

I moved here because healthcare is better, education is affordable, and I was groing tired of the midwest.
15:31 May 26, 2010 by iskren
well, it does not do justice on how many people actually intend to move here for good...and it's rather sensational than anything trendtrackingesque... It really makes me wonder whether I am included in these stats since I moved here for work from the Netherlands but I am actually Bulgarian...uber strange, if you ask me...
15:52 May 26, 2010 by bayern
My wife was born in Germany and I am of German descent. I served in the Militarynumerous times in Germany and visi as often as I can. My wife and I agree, Nic place to visit (even for a few months at a time) but we could never live there. Housing - expensive; taxes - very high; price of gas - wow, don't even go there; Insusrance - high, etc. However, if I could get a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house and two car garage for around $175; cars for about 25-30K and gas for around $2.75 PER GAL, I think I may change my mind. Very nice to visit (especially the old east) but llive there? Nah.
21:16 May 26, 2010 by Mikeyb87
I have just recently moved to Hamburg to live with my girlfriend. I met her in San Diego California where I'm from when she came out to do a nanny gig for a year. So far I love it here the people are very nice and diverse. The transportation system is excellent! I'm going through the paces learning the language right now and am eager to learn all I can from this culture!!
23:25 May 26, 2010 by pepsionice
To explain how the numbers work....you have an American GI who reaches 20 years and retires. His German wife convinces him that they have to stay. So he goes in, and he gets "in line" and gets the right visa (the only visa that fits). So he plays out this game of preparing to immigrate but he never does. Along the way, he discovers taxation (via contractor work on base or post.....or via a German company that he works for). Day after day....he grows to dislike all the taxes involved. Eventually, he will try to convince the wife that the taxes are killing them. She will play the typical German....telling you that this is the cost of living in a modern society and it's always better than America.

I sat and watched this game for fifteen years....ten under this visa game. I never got ahead, and continued to give them half of my total income via various taxes. My wife will continue to tell you that it's a necessity and that I simply don't understand. She's sitting back in Germany.....and I'm in the US. I'm making a very fair wage and my taxes are half of what I paid in Germany.

This visa game is rigged...but if you don't mind losing half your income....go for it.
23:52 May 26, 2010 by wxman
We're more than open to the idea of sending more. I have several in mind.
00:29 May 27, 2010 by Talonx
@ pepsionice

Simply put, some people aspire to better things for themselves and for humanity and sacrifice more (income) for doing so, others are content to wallow in the pits of American obsolescence or even search for it (e.g. FDP).
01:00 May 27, 2010 by Frenemy
this is exactly the type of thread that I live for.... (spot on)
01:29 May 27, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Frenemy --

Then you've come to the right place. Given your oft-stated German/American duality, I expect you have some interesting comments to provide. This is not a provocation, by the way, but an invitation. Your comments are always welcome.
05:01 May 27, 2010 by Jasmine33
I've often said that if I had the money, were a young person and had little children that I'd seriously think of leaving the US and go somewhere such as Australia or Europe. I realize that other countries have problems too but in the US it's becoming a race war and actual concern for the fellow citizens is far and few between. Obama so far has the lowest poll ratings of any American president to date. It's a losing battle with the struggle going on over the Mexican border and trying to keep the illegals out. Yes, if I could I would leave.
06:52 May 27, 2010 by dethbunny

"Obama so far has the lowest poll ratings of any American president to date."

Not true. President Bush holds that title, with a final approval rate of 22%. As of May 23rd, Obama was at 47% approval, some of the lowest numbers since the start of his Presidency.

"It's a losing battle with the struggle going on over the Mexican border and trying to keep the illegals out."

I lived for almost 10 years in Europe before leaving, and believe me when I say that even if you were "a young person", you would not like Europe. You seem to be far too xenophobic to be able to adapt to a new culture and way of life.
10:27 May 27, 2010 by Edmond Schindler
Time to kick in:

Seems I don't really have a choice anymore. For my nature has changed, my mind has broadened and my taste has expanded. I have tried twice to go "home" but after 5-6 months in California where I hail from the folks grind on me, the lack of culture bores me and the constant unvarying weather makes my skin crawl.

So I have gone through a metamorphose of which I cannot undo, life in Europe is the only life for me now, like it or lump it.

To each his/her own, live and let live.
12:09 May 27, 2010 by Frenemy
@Prufrock2010: In truth, given all the comments so far, I wouldn't even know where to begin.

I'm gonna sit this one out I think...
15:33 May 27, 2010 by Jasmine33
Dethbunny: I believe you may have misunderstood me for you to say that I'm "far too xenophobic" to adapt to a new culture. Do you live in the US, in particular near the Mexican border? If I lived in Australia or Europe I am sure I would be able to adapt to new cultures and ways of life there. I have quite a bit of German/Dutch heritage in me and would be willing to learn the language more (I do know some German words). Not related to the subject at hand, but several years ago another girl told me not to wear my hair a certain way because it made me look too German. Perhaps I should have told her she looked too Mexican. Anyway, what many Americans are "phobic" about are the illegal Mexicans coming over here, killing Americans and threatening to literally take over the US. So to learn a new culture, be able to practice my religion without being bombarded with people saying I was unconstitutional or stupid for believing in God, and living among people with proper morals would be refreshing.
15:57 May 27, 2010 by Frenemy
ok I change my mind. I'm just gonna inject my .02 cents here....

"So to learn a new culture, be able to practice my religion without being bombarded with people saying I was unconstitutional or stupid for believing in God, and living among people with proper morals would be refreshing."


Yeah, you've clearly never lived in Europe girlfriend! (especially not in Germany). The mere utterance of words like that will have you chucked out of here asap.

Furthermore, this place despises people with "proper morals", to say nothing of people who believe in God.

I'm not casting moral aspersions on you or anything, I'm just saying how it is here... (not the idyllic paradise one might imagine it to be. I just call it like it is chica)
16:49 May 27, 2010 by Jasmine33
Frenemy: I appreciate your insight, thanks, and I don't really suspect that anywhere on this globe could nowadays be called idyllic. Seems like I read on another thread where someone said Germany was one of the most atheistic countries in the world (don't get me wrong, I'm not calling everyone there an atheist, and if that is your choice to be one so be it - we all have a right to make a choice). So, I'll probably just stick it out where I'm at and just practice what I believe in. I'm not debunking the US, I do like it here, but the morals and compassion that were once here are not here anymore, and that probably applies to most of the world. However, greed for the green is here. It has become many people's "god".
22:05 May 27, 2010 by Ferweh179
@bayern: Where can you can get a house that big for that little? Not where I live. We as Americans are used to not having to pay the *true* economic price for most things. Ask China (with their artificially low currencies, so we have artificially low prices) how much they are liking our ridiculous trade deficit with them.

@pepsionice: I grew up in America, and spent over 7 years working in Germany, so I know what you're saying with taxes. At the same time, you can't get something for nothing, and that's what you see in America.

No one wants to pay taxes, but they're shocked to find the state governments can't magically repair the roads, bridges, or sewers, or even keep offices open five days a week. And forget making sure everyone has access to health care--kind of funny, when you think that 60% of personal bankruptcies are caused by medical bills, and 78% of those people had insurance!
22:17 May 27, 2010 by Frenemy

Your're right Jasmine, Americans do seem to be all about the rat-race for the green (at least more so than their east of of the Atlantic brethren).

But, personally/intellectually speaking, I'm anthropologically curious about why that is (I mean genetically/ethnically speaking we're really not that different on both sides of the pond...)
23:06 May 27, 2010 by Talonx

McCarthyism is essentially the answer.

Anybody not out for themselves was a communist during the cold war, and the king of equivocation made no special efforts to differentiate things like socialism from communism, to the point that anything short of being a money-grubbing wh#re makes you a pinko commie b#st#rd.
00:03 May 28, 2010 by Frenemy

the red scare part 2? sweet! should be interesting... ;-)

but the answer to what exactly?!
00:07 May 28, 2010 by wxman
@dethbunny: "To date', "TO DATE", get it? Meaning at this point in his presidency. The report is correct.
00:22 May 28, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Jasmine --

There is a difference between a secular state and a theistic state. This may surprise you. The US is a secular state according to its constitution (i.e., the First Amendment to the Constitution), but is in reality a theistic state (read: theocracy) because every candidate for national office has to pass a religious litmus test.

Germany is a government that is theoretically secular, but is very much under the influence of the Catholic Church. For instance, try to get a program or film on television that is critical of the Church, even on the private networks. The Church can veto it. How do I know? Well, I've been there.

But your xenophobia (you can look it up) is evident, and your racism is naked. You would never make it in Germany. You need to settle down in Tuscon or Phoenix or El Paso where your brand of populist fear and loathing is la mode du jour. Don't venture into New Orleans because there are too many blacks and creoles there. Definitely don't venture into Europe. Stay put. Go to tea parties. Vote to institutionalize your fears of other cultures and to turn America into the theocracy that your founding fathers worked so hard to prevent. Pace vobiscum, et cum spiritu tuo.
02:54 May 28, 2010 by Jasmine33
Prufrock2010: I really don't know where you and Dethbunny get these simpleton ideas about me being "xenophobic". Do you say this just because what I said about the US trying to keep out the illegal Mexicans? I have no fears about other cultures or people of other ethnicity. Some people I have known personally and admired very much were people from other cultures and other ethnic backgrounds. And you call me racist? Geeeessshhh!. I'm white, proud of it, but I have admired actions from blacks and other races that were very lacking in the white race and I was ashamed of the white race for not showing some of the very congenial and kind actions that other races did show. Then again, I've admired actions by the white race too.

How would you know that I would never make it in Germany? You have no idea of who I am or what makes me up as a person. I couldn't care less if you don't like what I say on these posts, but please do learn to find out who a person is and exactly what their ideas about things are before you go off putting your foot in your mouth. Xenophobic? No way that I am, but perhaps you are afraid somewhere in the dark recesses of your brain that this is what you feel yourself? You and Dethbunny? It's been said before that if there is something we don't like about someone it is sometimes something we don't like about ourselves.
03:28 May 28, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Jasmine --

Your xenophobia is exemplified by what you wrote. I quote: "Do you say this just because what I said about the US trying to keep out the illegal Mexicans? I have no fears about other cultures or people of other ethnicity."

So is it just Mexicans that you fear? And how can a Mexican be "illegal?" Do you know the difference between "illegal" and "undocumented?"

By the way, some of my best friends are black, too. I heard that all through the Jim Crow '60s. And why are you "proud of being white?" Did you have anything to do with being white? Is it some sort of accomplishment to be "white," or is it an accident of birth? I'm white. I didn't have anything to do with that. I was born in America. I didn't have anything to do with that, either. But that doesn't make me proud, or imbue me with that "American exceptionalism" that some people in the US consider dogma. What about those Mexicans who pick your fruit and vegetables, breaking their backs in the valleys of California? How do you know who among them is "legal" or "illegal?" What about their children who were born in the US? Are they "legal" or "illegal?" Have you ever read the US Constitution? I doubt it.

Don't believe for a second that I don't know anything about you. You are what you write, and you leave an identifying insight into your soul with every sentence you type, even with the anonymity of the internet. I wish you well.
04:58 May 28, 2010 by Jasmine33
Prufrock: No, I don't fear Mexicans or any ethnicity, I have no reason to. Why did you leave the US, is it because by the year 2030 that whites will make up half or less of the country? Did that scare you into leaving?

You are right about what you write on the net gives an insight into a person's soul, and honey I've got to tell you that you are one messed up soul. I worked in the medical field before and saw people with mental issues, and from what you write and the way you talk I now know that you are not only a troll on the net but that you do have problems. I've seen your other posts and you try to get other people to argue with you. If you want to respond to this post go ahead, but I will no longer respond to any of your's because it is fruitless to deal with your type. No matter what I said on here, even if I agreed with every little thing you say, you would still badger me. Why, because I'm an American and you hate America? Well in another post you told me to stay put, but I will do as I please.

You say you wish me well, thanks and same to you. I also wish you would get the help that you so desperately need. No, you don't know me, you don't know anything about me at all. If you did you could never say the derogatory things to me that you have. God help you, or do you even believe in Him? If you don't, have you ever heard of the Great White Throne Judgment? Read about it.

No, again I'm not xenophobic. I've personally known or do know and am friends with Mexicans, Blacks, Jews, Chinese, Japanese, Germans, and the list goes on. Good luck to you as well, and please do go and get the help that you need, because you do need it and I'll be praying that you succeed in getting it.
06:29 May 28, 2010 by Frenemy
@jasmine33: I must ask, it really does seem that race/creed/ethnicity is a big thing for you, why is that exactly? (I'm just curious)
08:49 May 28, 2010 by Talonx
@ Frenemy

My, "McCarthyism is the answer comment", was in answer to your question concerning the roots of the truly exceptional phenomenon of American style balls-out greed. I.e. due to McCarthyism anything not resembling the idiocy of laissez faire cutthroat capitalism is percieved as evil in the U.S. among certain quarters of the population

@ Jasmine

By refering to "other races" you out yourself as a 'racist'; one who believes in the concept of race (the most general definition). Races don't exist in Homo sapiens, though they do in chimpanzees - a race is essentially a subpecies as an exact definition. 'Ethnicities' exist in man, but these are cultural constructs. Speaking in terms of genetic difference (this is where it get a little complicated), you jasmine as a European have more in common with any one person in China with whom you share an ancestor of only 20,000 years ago; than two champenzees in different communities that share an ancestor of 50 years ago. Compared to our closest relatives we are genetically homogenous.

Anyways, you are a racist, given your admission that you think races exist (there's room to backtrack if you like).

You are also afraid of so called 'illegal people', 'illegal Mexicans' in your own words. Such a confusion about the actual states a human being can occupy (being an illegal versus a legal individual?!) outs you as at least having irrational ideas about people outside your bubble of experience. One might even say that you fear these outsiders, which is where the irrationality comes from. I think xenophobic describes you perfectly. That being said, stay out of Europe, you wouldn't make many friends here. H#ll, my friends' grandparents, here in Germany, are more open minded about immigrants and other cultures than you are.

P.s. Prufrock is probably one of the most rational people on these boards, calling him sick probably doesn't make your points look any more rational.
10:30 May 28, 2010 by LancashireLad
I have to step in to defend Prufrock here and echo Talonx's comments - and also extend them to him. See our recent discussion regarding Thierse's recent encounter with the Neo-Nazis as evidence.

To understand racism we have to go back to our roots - those in Africa. As I have said before, man is a tribal animal and must feel that he belongs. The corollary to this is that strangers to the tribe were always treated warily if not with open hostility. Back then it was a matter of survival. As humans travelled and spread, the necessity to interact for trade etc. purposes started to erode our inbuilt racism but never really eradicated it. The situation today is that we no longer live in our own tribes, we live on planet earth. Unless you live in the deepest rainforest, avoidance of interaction with other cultures is impossible. To survive as the human race we must underestand and accept this.

Not to defend racism in any way, I myself have experienced the other side. I was working in Atlanta one summer and went into downtown for some shopping I think. As I walked around I realised I was the proverbial cue ball. There was not another "white face" to be seen. Everybody else around me was just going about their business and could not have cared less that I was there. Nobody gave me a second glance and nobody gave me the impression of bearing me any malice whatsoever. It still felt quite intimidating. Please don't ask me why, I don't know. Maybe it touched my inbuilt tribal instinct.

Now that I have lived outside of my own country, I recommend it to everybody to do this for at least a year and to get involved in the local community not just your ex-pat community. Only then do you get a real impression that there are different ways of thinking and doing things out there. Have you done this, Jasmine?

I have to get on with some work now.
10:52 May 28, 2010 by Frenemy
@ LancashireLad and Talonx:

...just for the record, I'm totally with you guys on this.

(it makes me smile to see all the intellectual talent coming out on this thread [not sarcasm])
11:38 May 28, 2010 by Prufrock2010
LancashireLad, Talonx & Frenemy --


Jasmine --

For the record, no, I don't believe in god, but I have no problem with those who do as long as they don't attempt to proselytize me or legislate their idea of god into my life. I suppose that's another indicator of my "insanity."
12:32 May 28, 2010 by Talonx
@ Jasmine

There are people in this world who are racist and xenophobic and quite proud of it. I would not put you in this group.

However, there are also people in this world like my grandmother in the states that don't think of themselves as racist or xenophobic, would be totally offended at the thought, nevertheless they are, in a passive way racist and xenophobic.

What do I mean by this?

Well you say that you are excepting of all cultures, you refer to 'illegal mexicans' which has attained a cultural significance similar in severity and offense to what using the phrase 'angy black people' entails. Not being able to identify this makes you passively xenophobic (given the context of other things you have said, probably passively racist as well), the sooner you except this the sooner you can grow as a person.

Please seperate yourself our from people like my grandmother who talks of 'angry black people'. and 'illegals'.
14:09 May 28, 2010 by Jasmine33
Well I can see that there is no point in trying to carry on an intelligent conversation here with such irrational individuals, so I'll remove this page from my bookmarks and never even come to this site again. So long, good luck, and do get the help you ALL do so desperately need.
15:44 May 28, 2010 by Frenemy
sore loser... ;-)
16:52 May 28, 2010 by Jasmine33
Well, I'll stay on the site but only because a friend asked me to. However, for me the topic on this thread is through because it is not relative to keep on arguing on a basis for which there is no end. So, onward and forward.
16:57 May 28, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Separation anxiety?
17:17 May 28, 2010 by Frenemy
@jasmine33: of course there is (argument for argument's sake...without which those of who don't play solitaire at work would be be hopelessly lost...)
17:36 May 28, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Frenemy --

I suspect that the purpose of these threads is to encourage discussion and debate about particular issues, which is usually healthy, often amusing and occasionally enlightening. I don't think anyone comes to thelocal.de for its news content. There are some here, such as you, der Grenadier, Talonx, Lancashire Lad, Schindler and a few others, who write thoughtfully, coherently and often humorously, and it's both a pleasure to read and to engage in such discourse, whether in agreement or not. Then there are others whose clear objective is to rant, flame and derogate others. These folks are almost uniformly semi-literate and push an extreme right wing hate agenda. I suspect that almost all of them are Americans who are not living in Germany. They, too, are amusing in their ignorant certitude, especially when they throw out terms like "socialist," "communist," "fascist" and other buzz words they cannot even define. Maybe they represent a certain percentage of the American population, I don't know. But their hateful screeds reveal a great deal about their characters even as they hide behind the anonymity of the internet. To read their tirades is like watching a scorpion sting itself to death in its frustration. But you're right -- it's more amusing than playing solitaire at work. It's just too bad that intelligent discourse on these threads is inevitably drowned out by the flame throwers and their verbal tantrums.
18:13 May 28, 2010 by Icarusty
Damn all these Americans, nicking all the German women
18:21 May 28, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Yeah, some guys have all the luck.
22:28 May 28, 2010 by SeekTruth
I totally agree with Jasmine. I've thought about moving to Europe to escape the crime and demographic changes of the US. Those people who hurle around words like "xenophobe" do so thinking they sound sophisticated. They're nothing but tools. Come live in areas where you have to worry about your wife and kids when they drive out!!! Come live in areas where gang-bangers and rapper thugs stare at 12 year old white girls. Come sit in the ER rooms which are packed with illegals and listen to an employee who tells you upfront that you are indeed paying for the medical care of the illegals. Live with your local schools telling your kids that they're inherently racist and evil and they don't have a culture and that they should celebrate other cultures in lieu of theirs.

Look, it's not apples or oranges, black or white, or 1 or 10. There are a lot of numbers in between. A lot of shades of gray. This B.S. of hating your mom and dad and yourself because you're German or white or whatever is sheer lunacy. Other ethnic groups are damn proud of their ethnicity and they evangelize their ethnicity.

This idiocy of "If whites deny their culture, then the other ethnic groups will integrate or love them is B.S." It doesn't work in the real world. I live in an extremely diverse area of the US and whites are the only idiots running around denying their culture and heritage thinking they'll get some kind of reward for it.

Multicultural societies turn into the former Yugoslavia, or dictatorships like Iran, or poverty and crime ridden Brazil. They suck.

The whole point of busing in immigrants and foreigners is to buy votes, exploit cheap labor, and to create societal tension so politicians and the rich can exploit the masses. Besides, third-world immigrants have no interest in saving the environment. Look at the Mexican/US border or areas where illegals reside in the US. Trash and environmental damage everywhere.

Why should we bring in more people who will burn fuel driving cars, heating homes, creating more urban sprawl, suck up welfare funds from environmental issues, etc.?
23:28 May 28, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Seek Truth --

You must be the friend who encouraged Jasmine to stay on this thread.

You actually wrote: "Multicultural societies turn into the former Yugoslavia, or dictatorships like Iran, or poverty and crime ridden Brazil. They suck."

You, sir or madam, are a flat-out racist. Please, please, please stay where you are and don't bring your hatred to Europe. We have enough problems of our own without your unwanted input.
00:38 May 29, 2010 by Jasmine33
Prufrock: No, Seek Truth is not the friend that encouraged me to stay, and that information dear friend is personal.

Prufrock, please do be straight with us all and tell us why you left the US.
01:03 May 29, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Jasmine --

I don't know why, but I will indulge you, and I will be truthful.

I left the US because I am married to a beautiful German woman who is neither comfortable in that culture, nor is inclined to give up her business in Germany or to be away from her family at a time when they need her. I also left the US because I am fed up with the "cultural wars" that now define American politics.

I practiced law in the US for many years as a civil litigator. By any measure of success, I was successful. During my lifetime, I have also written 11 films that have been produced, five of which have been produced in Europe. In addition to those produced films, I have sold at least 25 scripts that have not been produced for one reason or another. I have had a novel published in the US, and several songs I have written have been recorded and released by various artists. In short, I lived my life in the US and decided to move on.

I am an unabashed and unapologetic "progressive," I have worked for civil rights for minorities and the disenfranchised since my youth, and I am proud to call Morris Dees a friend and a mentor. I believe in social justice and equality, and have devoted my career, both as a writer and as an attorney, to achieve those ends. But the law is a young person's game, and I am no longer young. Nevertheless, my values are intact and my passions have not diminished. I can now live where I choose and pursue my projects according to my own lights and beliefs, without answering to anyone. I choose to live in Europe.
02:35 May 29, 2010 by Jasmine33
Prufrock: Oh, I see. Well some of it was for cultural reasons. Besides that congratulations for all your successes. It's so refreshing to see someone accomplish all the goals you set forth, to go where most men only dare to go. Let us be fortunate enough to see the films you've produced and hear the songs you've sang, I'm sure we'll all be quite enlightened by them. Do continue to go far and wide to whatever horizons loom ahead in your future, wherever they may be. Go far, far in your success. Take the road less traveled wherever it may lead you, for it may take you far and away into the land of success forevermore. One day we may look up into the heavens and say, "there's Prufrock". Go boy, go, far, far and away.
03:09 May 29, 2010 by Prufrock2010
I'll stay where I am for the moment, thanks. Your sarcasm hasn't gone unnoticed, but as I stated, I live by my own lights and answer to no one. That's one of he few benefits of reaching my age. I wish you the same benefit, despite my disagreement with your views. I'm relatively sanguine with what I have tried to accomplish, but the work goes on. You asked me a direct question, and I gave you an honest answer. Feel free to accept it or reject it. It matters not in the least to me. You will never know my true identity, as I will never know yours. That's the allure of this medium. But my thoughts are not disguised here, nor are yours, and whatever we express to one another is all that matters.
03:34 May 29, 2010 by Jasmine33
Well I don't know what else to say but that this will most likely be my last post on this thread at least. I truly do congratulate you on your accomplishments, take it or leave it however you want to see it. Perhaps we will meet on another thread sometime, but on a thread there is a time when a subject at hand has played itself out and I think on this thread that time has come. All I ask you to do is recognize that everyone has a right to his or her opinion, right or wrong, whatever that may be, and it may not always be the one that agrees with your views or not what you want to hear. It would be a dull and boring world if we all agreed with each other and no one dared disagree. You and I come from two different walks of life's experiences, each of us molded by those experiences. You may have many years ahead of you and I hope they are good, as I truly wish you no ill. It machs nix to you I'm sure, but I don't know what my future holds, as I'm a 5-year survivor of breast cancer. When I go off my 5-year mandatory cancer treatment in August I don't know that cancer is just waiting to take hold again and take me over. I hope not, since I've been clear for 5 years due to my medicine, but who knows. So again I say to you - congratulations - I'm glad for your success. Not everyone can accomplish what you have.
09:57 May 29, 2010 by Talonx
@ Seektruth

Wow, classic. 'Black people are out to steal all the little white girls!!!'

You don't think you're racist or afraid of other cultures?
10:52 May 29, 2010 by dr.makni49
Lively debate lost to anger and count of some personal woes and acievements. Whether US or Germany, go and merge yourself where your heart is. Places are weaker clauses than emotions. Racism and multiculturalism are words to sooth ignorant people only. In the long run whether stopping Mexicans or annoying Jasmine 33, the Rechleo concept(I hope my spellings are correct?) plays. Some times, hark to the wisdom that might be coming from ignoble character, the Satan, who glorified hell so lavishly that some may be inspired to live there. So stay where your heart is and if need be sing John Milton.

Jasmine, I wish your health hazard does not recurr to you!!!
11:49 May 29, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Jasmine --

I wish you well in your fight against cancer and hope that you have a long and fulfilling life. My step-daughter by a previous marriage is a two-time cancer survivor and is thriving today. Peace.
12:43 May 29, 2010 by JohnnesKönig
SeekTruth is not a racist! what he speaks about is accurate. I do not read anything that says he is against any race. He is opposed to what is happening! It is called "Reverse discrimination" ... there are TV programs and organizations that cater to specific races. And if someone would have an exclusive whites only club or TV program? The MSM is afraid to ask Obama the tough questions in fear of being labeled a racist! And if the average person speaks out against him, he is " just another racist..." You folks should be sure about what you say before making uninformed accusations!
14:00 May 29, 2010 by Prufrock2010
JohnnesKönig --

Seek Truth made it abundantly clear that he/she doesn't like blacks, doesn't like Mexicans living in "his" community, and is thinks that multiculturalism "sucks," to use his elegant term. If that's not racism, it will do until real racism comes along.

Seek Truth --

One question: do you believe that children of undocumented immigrants who are born in the US are entitled to US citizenship?
17:53 May 29, 2010 by SeekTruth

You must live in a bubble. I doubt you live in one of the most diverse counties in the United States. So I'm supposed to pretend the gangsta wannabes in the mall aren't trying to intimidate seniors or stare down white women and young girls? Am I supposed to pretend that the gang graffiti on buildings doesn't exist? Am I supposed to pretend that the higher crime rate doesn't exist? So I can please you and make you feel comfortable with your dogmatic view of the world? Whatever. This is my reality. I have seen illegals fist fight outside a nice grocery store. I've seen guys with "Mexican Mafia" shirts bouncing around in another grocery store deliberately trying to scare everyone in the store. While pushing my baby in a stroller in the mall one day, an illegal looking guy walked straight up to me glaring at me like he's going to hit me and had his fist cocked. My wife has had a gangsta guy stare her down and follow her throughout a store. There have been plenty of home invasions and they're not being conducted by guys of Swedish ancestry. The university that I sat in told me day in and day out that I was a bad evil person because I was white. Am I supposed to take this as a good normal thing? You don't know my truth - you want to stay within your comfort zone. I guess all those South African whites who are being murdered (genocide) that's not really happening is it? I guess that 74 year old white guy that was getting kicked in the head by a mob of diversities didn't really happen either did it? Or what about the young couple that were brutally tortured on the east coast - that didn't happen did it?

I used to be into the whole multi-cultural thing just like you. I used to sit there and day dream about us all working together and holding hands and working for the common good, blah, blah. The script for a couple of movies I was developing was going to be full of this multi-cultural material. But the brainwashing wore off.

Whites are a minority in this world and were 25% of the global population in 1950, now they're at 12% and rapidly dropping. Only 2% of white women in the world are at child-bearing age with the remained predominantly too old to bear children. White people are going the way of the American Indian. Gee - I don't know ... but I guess that's a good thing for my kids and other white kids, huh?

How does diveristy and me being a minority benefit me or my kids? It doesn't. Latinos and blacks in the US sure hate it, and so why should I like it? I'm a good person. My ancestors didn't have slaves, in fact, they were poor people. They were actually slaves themselves! My grand-parents didn't dodge lead in WWII so their grand-kids could be marginalized minorities who are treated like spit in academia, politics and the media.
18:24 May 29, 2010 by Frenemy
wow, now that was one hell of a rant. dude, I'm multi cultural and educated in the US, but I definitely didn't catch any easy breaks. (if I gave a sh!t, I might actually take offense to all that)

...now as for South Africa, we got a bunch of our guys heading (so please don't tell them about all the brutal murderings going down...it might affect their playing)
19:10 May 29, 2010 by Talonx
@ Seektruth

If I ever want to parody your kind, I think I'll just use a copy paste of what you wrote.

Innapropriately staring down women of any colour is not specific to any race, It's unfortunately just a man thing. The only reason you notice when black folk or latin folk look at white women is because you are afraid of black or latin folk

Blaming gang existence on race is pretty off-the-wall too. Haven't you ever heard of the KKK or the Neo-Nazis or the Hammerheads. Gangs can come about anytime you have unemployed, illiterate, low socio-economic status (SES) males it has nothing to do with skin color. It has more to do with institutional violence. Certainly their are multiple levels of responsibility, but it is a scientific fact that those on low SES brackets are given the worst access to resources available to most all the middle class. Due to endemic racism, from people like yourself, the situation is worsened still. There was a point in time when the Irish and German immigrants to the U.S. were thought of in exactly the same way you speak of black and latin folk, it was easier for them to dig themselves out though, having never been slaves and all.

Just laughable that you think your kids are treated like split, look up the word "privilege", ponder it for a while, and than pull your head out your #ss, it seems to have been stuck up there for quite some time.
01:09 May 30, 2010 by Prufrock2010
Seek Truth --

I asked you one simple question and you failed to answer it. Do you believe that children of undocumented immigrants who are born in the US are entitled to US citizenship?

Yes or no.
00:24 May 31, 2010 by Talonx
@ Seek Truth

After you've answered his question, maybe read, 'How the Irish Became White'.
11:20 May 31, 2010 by Prufrock2010
He'll never answer the question. He can't.
15:05 May 31, 2010 by bayern
Seek Truth --

I asked you one simple question and you failed to answer it. Do you believe that children of undocumented immigrants who are born in the US are entitled to US citizenship?

Yes or no.

I'll answer: NO. And they don't get German citizenship either.
17:58 May 31, 2010 by Talonx
@ Bayern

This is probably the only way in which nationalism rears its ugly head in Germany over and beyond the extant it does in the U.S.
01:52 June 1, 2010 by Icarusty
@. SeekTruth "I guess all those South African whites who are being murdered (genocide) that's not really happening is it? "

Ahaha, you ARE a complete racist. You mention of the white SAs whilst forgetting about the black SA murder rate - a ratio of 10 blacks to every 1 white.

Also, someone (probably SeekTruth again actually) mentioned that whites are the only race in this world not to be proud of their heritage. Wrong. Whites are the only race in this world to actively create violent hate groups against anyone not white - white supremacy - Neo Nazis, KKK etc.... furthermore, you look at any celebration around the world of a "non-white day" - take Chinese New Year for example. Last year in London I saw hordes of whites, Chinese and other races alike, joining in and having fun. Everyone was accepted as they are. I did not see Chinese supremacist groups planning their next lynching on other races. No, only whites have done that on a mass produced scale.

By contrast, I went to a St. George's Day (England) celebration - songs of "kill the paki", and other hate towards other races, were sung aplenty as the beer flowed. When a non-white walked past the pub, he was given horrendous verbal abuse.

Compare and contrast
21:54 August 11, 2010 by rpsaha
Interesting article. But please check the mistake in para 2:

"Main countries of origin were Poland (123,000), Romania (56,000), the United States (30,000), Turkey (30,000) und Bulgaria (29,000). "

it should be and not und
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