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Turks: Germany must do more for integration

AFP/The Local · 19 Nov 2009, 17:00

Published: 19 Nov 2009 17:00 GMT+01:00

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Forty-five percent of the Turks surveyed said that they feel unwelcome in Germany. But an overwhelming 82 percent said their host should do more to aid their integration.

Germany is home to almost three million people with Turkish roots, making it the world's largest Turkish diaspora and Germany's largest ethnic minority.

The study said Turks were already engaged in many aspects of German society such working, paying taxes and being able to afford consumer goods such as cars. But mentally, there was still a huge gulf between Turks and their host country.

“This is a group of people who are deeply committed to their cultural and religious roots and Turkish values,” the study said. “And they are not fundamentally prepared to give them up.”

A damning report published in February found that although many Turks have been in Germany for nearly 50 years they are the least well integrated of all immigrant communities.

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Other recent surveys have shown that they are more likely to leave school without qualifications than the overall population, more likely to be unemployed and below the poverty line.

This latest survey was carried out by research institutes Info GmbH and Antalya-based Liljeberg Research International. Around 1,000 Germans, people in Germany with Turkish roots and Turks in Turkey took part in the survey.

AFP/The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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Your comments about this article

17:27 November 19, 2009 by Jollyjack
I believe that it is the other way around. Come to Berlin and watch the carneval of the cultures - the turks make the smallest contribution. Go to Kottbuser Tor and see the number of satelite dishes. They don't speak German at home, they don't watch German TV - result? When their children go to school they do not understand what their teachers are telling them - they are backward and remain so, hence leaving school with no qualifications and condemning themselves to the lowest paid jobs and poverty. When the Turkish prime minister last visited Germany he made a speech telling the Turks not to integrate. Ok there are always exceptions but as a general it is true.
17:39 November 19, 2009 by nightwish
Well if they are not happy living in Germany they could always move back to Turkey to live
17:41 November 19, 2009 by OPB
"We are here in YOUR country, but it is your responsibility to accomodate US!"

I love that way of thinking, conquerors still centuries later.
18:25 November 19, 2009 by duckys
I agree with Dessa's book!! :)

There is Racism in the world... (not just against Turks...)

I think that the problem does not totally remain within the turkish community but just immagration in completely... I mean there are people here that are trying to do the right thing... and are trying to just live everyday...

I clearly see the Racism within the just genral population within the Germans... they know immedately who is not a german and ensure that you dont forget...

I think this is really immature and childisch...

I came from the United States and I see clearly how mexicans would be treated within the U.S as I get the same crap from Germans here... and i really am disappointed in how people treat each other...

I just wish that everyone would just agree to live with each other and stop the cry babiness and actually make things better for each other instead of worrying about what color they are... or where they are from...
19:01 November 19, 2009 by pepsionice
Ok, so you take a two Turks, two Nigerians, two Americans, and two Russians into the most remote village possible of Baavaria....and walk away for five years. The two Nigerians would speak perfect German, each own a 1-man business operation, and each be a member of the local soccer club. The two Americans? They would each own a farm, be a nightly member of some local bar, and each have a membership in the local hunting club. The two Russians? They'd each own their own bar, be personal friends of the local cops, and speak perfect German.

The Turks? They would have packed up and moved to some urban area where other Turks reside. None of their kids would have finished school or done anything much worth bragging about. Their daughters? Married to another Turk....nothing less than that.

I live in a small village here in Germany. There's a Chinese family that came and spent time learning the language....later bringing a relative or two over. Over five years...they all speak German. Their kids are fully integrated into the school and the parents have expectations over their education. They've come to stay. The Turks? I get the feeling that they really don't think they've come to stay but then they won't dare discuss moving back to Turkey. Thats the funny thing
20:06 November 19, 2009 by martell
So Germany must do more for integration, eh?

Did they not notice that you get all these language courses paid for by German tax money even for Turkish mothers at the adult education centers VHS in every town, low priced and tax deductible? Alphabetization courses for the ones which come from countries where the state does not support its citizens to learn to read and write, especially not females in rural areas? Something which does not exist in Turkey where they have hardly any stateside social infrastructures at all?

This is a slap in the face of the host nation.

Maybe it is the lack of willingness to integrate through learning the language and living with the the local laws? I know of Americans, Canadians, Brits, Irish, Dutch, French, Vietnamese, Chinese, ... (you name them) coming to Germany for a living that they all learn the local language first in order to communicate to get around well and start working. It works for them.
20:51 November 19, 2009 by ebermannstadt
I know so many foreign nationals in Germany, South African, English, American, Russians and so forth. They all speak German, even the women!

There are basically two kinds of Turks here. Those who have intergrated so well, you'd not spot them as Turkish straight away, and those who remain Turkish, don't learn German and don't intergrate.

Being English, it's hard to be critical though, without being hypocritical. The British have centuries of colonial history behaving just like that.

Neither do the Americans wander around the planet blending in.

However it is easy for us British, African, American, Russian or European foreign nationals to be critical. We assimulate because we can. The German culture is similar to ours. South African (white) and American (white) culture derives from western European culture. South African and Americans blacks have often adapted western culture, more often than not true Christianity. German, British and French cultures have been intertwined for centuries. Our differences just add spice to life. For the Turks, this isn't always the case. There culture and religion is very different and historically in conflict with ours.

Assimulation of races seems to work better in America but what you see may only be the tip of the iceberg. However America does insist on immigrants learning english.
22:41 November 19, 2009 by Celeon
"A damning report published in February found that although many Turks have been in Germany for nearly 50 years they are the least well integrated of all immigrant communities."

This says it all. Really.

If there are different levels of integration of the different immigrant communities how is it Germany's fault that the Turks are the ones with the worst integration?

Would'nt all be equally bad integrated if Germany is the one who does something wrong?

Or does someone really want to go down into the murky depths of explaining how Germany is more racistic towards turks than others. Any volunteers?

No? Thought so, because that would be a rediculous claim and impossible to proof.

I for one claim that the turkish immigrant community is the one that does more wrong than the others or Germany when it comes to integration.

The reasons? Cultural incommensurateness of which you can find much more between Turks and Germans than for instance between Russians or Poles and Germans.

Turkish nationalism, self chosen or taught by the parents is another very wide spread factor. While the neo nazis will tell you that a child born to turkish immigrants in Germany and therefore holding a german passport is not and will never be a German but is instead a Turk, i know at least a dozen Turks that will say exactly the same to you.

Ask them and they will say, "im a Turk with german passport !"

Taken all this into account, the message that most young Turks want to return to Turkey is good news. For both sides.

But ironically not really for Turkey as the unemployment rate there is at 15,5 % as of 2009.

And that without thousands of young turks coming over from Germany with many of them having no job education or even school qualifications.
09:01 November 20, 2009 by berliner12
Don't make me laugh, this kinds of people americans,british and other nationality (show their true colors) not the turks,always attacking germans are bad go on the internet the whole day and making foul words about germans and I realised they are living here (non of them are turks).After all the free German course, or cheap German course paid from the tax payers and other benefits, they got like also cheap payment of education, then they go on moaning like an immature creature why German have BO, why german are so bad on this etc... etc... and you can heard them on the street here talking english and criticising the Germans , how crazy because they thinks that the people around them don't understand english and now they said that they can easily integrate than turks, how can you integrate with this kinds of people always moaning after getting all the benefits here and still try to be arrogants? You belong to the western countries and why you come here?

Don't come or going back where you belong when you just come here as an opportunist ..Don't generalised the turks that they cannot easily integrate, the young ones who live here since birth they have circle of German friends .
09:06 November 20, 2009 by Schnuckel
Why are the Turks waiving their flag in that photo? I thought they wanted to integrate and live in Germany.
09:36 November 20, 2009 by zarets
Who is talking here by the way that turks are difficult and cannot easily integrate, not the german but also the other immigrants who maybe only here for few years.You want to tell us that you are better than turks?
09:45 November 20, 2009 by zarets
On the other hand, Turks have a rep for not integrating themselves, either. Such as when they live in Germany for decades, but they won't allow their women to learn German, so they can't communicate with physicians, or anyone else around them.

whom you are talking? the 50,60 years old turks? You think the youngwomen generation of turks you can keep inside the house not to learn German?
10:21 November 20, 2009 by nickdrink
If the turks dont like to integrate, they are not the only one

Ok, in general we don't like german even in footbal we are already big enemies and anywhere in holidays spain, greece,italy etc... german and brits don't like each other,to have more comments why we don't like them read daily mail:

12:06 November 20, 2009 by deutsche
Personally, I don't have problem with them (turks).My parents have 3 turks workers for 5 years now and they are so very hard working and even helping extra to my parents when they need them.

But to nickdrink, thanks that you hate us germans it's a long time we know that.I read the article nickdrink


Now we know Turkey is more better of than your country now.I hope you are not one of the millions of lost generations in your country and will paddle the boat to come here for refuge.
13:04 November 20, 2009 by arbeitsmunich
Ha!ha! that's why I read some desperate bunch of people want to enroll in the german course (opposite than the turks)and how to enroll in the university .Now we know, this are the lost generations.Thank's for the links now we know, why they hate us???
13:15 November 20, 2009 by dete30
Thank you nick drink, I read the links.It's so awful.
18:10 November 20, 2009 by readnow
Cannot believe how long-winded most people are - do they feel they have to write is thesis on this? Just reading it explains it all, although must say bored me to death after the first 2 sentences.
21:48 November 20, 2009 by DrGideonPolya
All citizens should feel welcome and part of society. One key path towards inclusiveness and recognition is through education via schools, universities and media - after all the Turkish people had a huge part in the history and culture of south east and central Europe (just think of coffee, architecture, Mozart's Rondo Alla Turka etc etc). However such education must be honest - just as Germans have acknowledged the German crimes of the WW2 Holocaust (30 million Slav, Jewish and Gypsy dead, this including 5-6 million Jews, 1 in 6 dying from deprivation) they need to address the precursor German Namibian Genocide (German extermination of 0.1 million Hereros and Namas of South West Africa 1903-1907) and the current Afghan Genocide in which Germany is complicit ( post-invasion non-violent excess deaths from deprivation 3.2 million; violent deaths up to 4 million; post-invasion under-5 infant deaths 2.3 million, 3-4 million refugees plus a further 2.5 million Pashtun refugees generated under Obama in NW Pakistan). Germans, Turks and Turkish Germans must also acknowledge the Armenian Genocide in which German ally Turkey murdered an estimated 1.5 million Armenians in WW1, this inspiring Hitler's subsequent WW2 genocide of Slavs, Jews and Gypsies in Eastern Europe.
21:59 November 20, 2009 by zarets
There are many here condemning the turks that they are diffecult and that this american,brits or white people said here they can easily deals with Germans.But what caught my attention is nickdrink comments and links:


and I read there how bad the country is.Arbeitsmunich you are right, I think the lost generation are coming now here.Now we have to work hard to pay their educations so that their parents can take care of their debt and holidays.VERY NICE.
22:07 November 20, 2009 by barracks
I still cannot understand that this people can write so long here which give me a head-ache.
09:06 November 21, 2009 by nickdrink
Who said I will come there??? There are many nice places to visit here in europe than your country full of arrogant people.I said "visit" because my parents can afford my education here and can afford also to visit everywhere.You can continue reading the links I share, then you will know not only turks are the who don't like you.
18:29 November 21, 2009 by mixxim
I had a turkish friend once. She was quite pretty.....
02:32 November 22, 2009 by surj
There is no way Turks will ever integrate with Germans even if they live in Germany for hundreds of years.My reason for saying this comes from Muslim's Quran.Sura 5:51"Believers,take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends and protectors,for they are friends and protectors of one another.Whoever of you seeks their friendship and supports them,shall become one of their number.Allah does not guide the wrong doers." So you see in Islam ,muslims are forbidden to have friends with non believers. Yes Turkish men will befriend naive German women to marry them only when they convert to Islam. Sura 2:193,"Fight against them(Kaffirs,Infidels) until idolatry is no more,and Allah's religion reigns supreme." So my dear German friends wake up and realise that if you don't take control of the Muslim population of Germany ,then one day muslims will take over Germany through populating. see www.blip.tv/file/1382254 www.thereligionofpeace.com www.faithfreedom.org
09:26 November 22, 2009 by mixxim
Like the Germans did in Namibia and Tanganyika?

Of course the British integrated - I saw lawrence of Arabia!!!!

But generally the natives prefer to Ape us, see Mugabi and other leaders wearing European suits and ties. I think we would have more respect for them if they stuck to their own customs as in Saudi Arabia but I saw only a few expats wearing the local fashion.

How many Europeans working in Africa speak the lingo or even mix with the locals?
09:24 November 25, 2009 by moistvelvet
Integration and feeling of belonging could start with Germany allowing all those foreigners who live/work in Germany i.e. taxpayers, to vote in national elections. IMO this discrimination of accepting their money in tax but denying their right to say how it is spent is in my case a major factor in not feeling a sense of beloning, in not being fully integrated. Certain rights and certain jobs for Germans, unlike in other European countries Germany accepts having a 2nd class citizens.
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