Published: 17 Aug 12 10:28 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/society/20120817-44415.html
Berlin police are preparing for possible violence at the weekend after an anti-Islam group was granted leave to display provocative cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed during demonstrations outside mosques.
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Your comments about this article:
Whether it is scientifically proved or not,,, as a muslim, if I see a person demonstrating in this way, I will definitely assume that he hates me. Should I hate him back? I am not sure, probably freedom of speech does not mean freedom of personal feeling towards someone.
P.S. I am not living anymore in germany. I came here to finish my phd and I am out. During my stay, I did not not claim social money neither did I take any euro from you.
ciao ciao
In Germany at the moment this campaign against other countries (not just muslim, also south mediterranean), is increasing, thanks to poor political leaders.
Let's hope, however as I see the situation now, I am very concerned that we will end up in a disaster (history cycle is back at the end)
All part of the great strategy from the elite powers that be.
Religion tells you that you have the right, no the duty, to tell all other religions that they will eternally rot in hell (but he's a loving God). Its only a shame that more Christians don't read their own book carefully and find all the hate filled tripe that really makes up their religion. The Catholics have only stopped spouting their hate filled nonsense in the last 80 years or so, because they understand it alienates anyone with a brain. Don't think your religion is better, this self deception is only because you are mildly non-religious and don't follow, or probably know the full edict of your religion. I challenge any "moderate" Muslims to do the same.
You want to remove anti-semitism, or anti-islamism from a society? Start by removing all connections with government (especially relevant in Germany). Eliminate all tax breaks for religions and make any religious donations to politicians or politics illegal. The churches, mosques, synagogues etc. would dry up and move out. And people would be kinder to each other and society less extreme.
So when say something better be careful in choosing words because ignorance is what world don't need.
I drew some masterpiece artwork showing Pope abusing children... in all so many colorful ways... and say I go on the Christmas eve in front of the Berlin cathedral to show off how good artis I am. And maybe add some good slogan like F***'em all just to add to the performance.
what do you think would happen?
Edin, I don't see why not. It would be just as what these people are doing. They think they are expressing free speech, and surely these kind people would agree you are expressing free speech as well and would have no issue. :)
Since Muslims are so bad they deserve it, but what have Vietnam, Cambodia, Panama, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Mexico and Colombia done to be militarily or through drug been ruined? None of them was islamic countries and none destroyed worship places.
You see, you got it all wrong. Those who are "expressing free speech" in this case, I am 100% sure, are actually the ones who will find them selves in that church on the Christmas eve and would go ballistic if anyone did that to them. There is no normal person who would not be offended by such acts.
Point is that this is a blunt misuse of free speech to spread hate between people. To be concrete it is to provoke the conflict with Muslims in Germany to show how they are all violant and should all be... kicked out or gassed or God knows what is in those haterd dark minds.
I'm Muslim. I live in Germany to make internship. i have been here since may. You are nice people, cool, fun and open minded. of course not all but most of you. the Muslim and non Muslim are human. each one chose his bath in which he/she found.
Prophet Mohammed is very religious to us. and the photo is making any Muslim very angry. in which he will stop respect others.
I have christian friends in the middle east and from other country, we respect each other and help each other. no one is better than the other because of his name Muslim or christian but by his action.
Sir, i live in middle east and there is church in front of the mosques and we eat together and respect each other, yes Saudi is the only country that don't have church. ok so what .........
but why don't you look to all the other country, about Egypt there is a lot of church, but because the Muslim are much more that the christian the old government order to build mosques at that period, reason: Muslim more and no place to pray, we pray 5 time a day, its to hot to stay under the sun. and there are enough church for the christian.
sir, we live Muslim and Christians live in peace for more than 1000 year, Muslims had the chance to hurt anyone and no one could stop the roller at that time. but we respect as you now respect us.
I wish to finish my internship and go back to my country, i need to tell everyone how much Germany are wonderful and their people are cool and helpful not like what the move show us.
i hope we all understand each other, and start to realize we are all live in one world.
Best Regards
You say - "Some TV "scholars" will say "Islam is peace" or "Islam is love" or whatever, but I will believe it only when they will build a Christian Church, Jewish/Hindu/Buddist/Sikh Temple in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and Cario, Egypt."
Well, I guess you are a believer then :)
"St. Andrew's United Church of Cairo is an international Christian church in Egypt. ... Its church building was completed in 1908. It is located at 38 26 July St. between Ramses and Galaa streets, just above the Nasser Metro Stop in downtown Cairo."
"Grace Outreach Church is a Spirit-filled, Full Gospel Church based in Riyadh, KSA."
I am pretty sure there are others too, bareq is saying the same thing.
And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah , lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do. (Surah Al-An'am:108)
Where did I heard that!
"I do have muslim friends (men and women) who are really wonderful people. Islam as a religion is completly a different issue for me. Centuries of history cannot be forgotten or forgiven."
funny how it is more difficult to hate "actual" people, people you know and interact with than to hate a group as whole.
I have a colleague like that, I wouldn't be surprised If I see him among the protesting crowds ... he always makes clear that he wishes that all arabs/turkes be sent "back home" (I guess if we were in the 1940s he would be advocating to send them to Poland!) but he also always ends by saying that he does not mean "me" ( I don't consider myself muslim anymore but I am from a muslim background).
... funny who hatred works sometimes
Most every religion or political entity the world over has committed atrocities of one sort over the course of history.
Yes! The Christian kings of the medieval era did go on crusades. But. The very first recorded crusade was done by Muslims and predates the Christians by hundreds of years. They got all the way to modern day Austria. So neither group is blameless.
The same with political groups in the form of national governments. I my self have never raised a fist nor advocated violence toward another country. Yet. Half the worlds population hates me. just because I'm an American.
I for one do not trust any political or religious leader that talks in absolutes. The Bishop in Germany is one. The same with the Imams that preach the total destruction of anyone that is not them. I look at the person that is saying such things and have disdain for that person. But I will not lump every person of that faith or political party/country into the same category as the leaders who spread such hate.
Those hateful leaders only serve themselves by trying to create instability to help themselves keep or gain power.
There goes that broad brush again. And what about governments? Do we get rid of organized governments because people from a government abuse their power. In most if not all cases. The form of government is not the main problem. It's what the leaders do with the power that the people give them. unfortunately, Most abuse that power.
The issue with a religion stems from the same. A powerful person from within said religion that misrepresents the religion. Jim Jones is an example of that. There is not one word in the Christian Bible about suicide. Yet this guy twisted verses and used his power and charisma to convince people to kill themselves. This was not a problem with the religion it self. Jones was an evil person passing himself off as a Christian. And his followers did not or were afraid to ask questions.
@ChrisRea Nice listing of churches. What about the other places of worships like Jewish Synogogues, Hindu/Sikh/Buddhist Temples? If you dig under those grand mosques like Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem and several major mosques (Hindu/Sikh/Jain/Buddhist) across the Indian subcontinent all have a religious place of worship. Probably you have couple of token churches in Cairo and Riyadh only to please the ¦quot;Franks¦quot;. Why don¦#39;t you build a major Synagogue or a Temple too?
http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Police-razes-clandestine-Hindu-temple-in-Riyadh,-deports-three-people-2905.html
The Islamic countries which are loaded with money can invest that money education in Science and Technology at home. Instead, they spend money on exporting Madrassas and buying lots of weapons to fight the Infidels. That is the sad truth.
P.S: I respect Germany, because people are progressive and logical. I hope this does not turn into a xenophobic sentiment, or be confused with it. It might devastate Germany the second time around.
Yes, what about other places of worship? What is your question? If you seriously ask why don't I build a Synagogue or a Temple, I would answer that I am not a builder and I am not interested in supporting religion. Where did you get this question from?
Anyway, I am satisfied knowing that, according to your own words, you consider Islam to be a religion of peace. It is a little step towards turning ignorance to cultural tolerance.
I, for one, do not think Islam is a religion of peace! When I used the word "You" it is for the Islamists or Islamic coutries that try to prompt the rosy picture about its followers.
@bareq #14 "Prophet Mohammed is very religious to us. and the photo is making any Muslim very angry. in which he will stop respect others."
Isn't that feeling true when Muslims destroy places of worship of the non-believers of Islam?
History can never be forgotten nor forgiven. That is the unfortunate truth.
@V28 Well said!! In the Indian history they are trying to conceal all the atrocities that Muslims have committed over the. They tend to use the term "Jewish Holacaust" when it is convenient for them.
@ChrisRea Although the NYC World Trade Center is not a religious place but there is a mosque planned to be built there. Destroy and build a mosque. A typical signature, isn't it?
please do you know this:
The Promise to St. Catherine:
"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)."
also you can see the Covenant of Umar
sir we have radical people who don't understand Islam well, those who we need to correct.
second thing sir if Muslims destroy church or temples then why didn't we do that before 1000 year ago, why until now there are Jew and Christians live with us.
but there are some book when i hear what it contain about Islam, I'm sure they have wrong information.
I agree with you "History can never be forgotten nor forgiven. That is the unfortunate truth",I agree but what History and what truth!!!
P.s:
http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=429025&MID=0&PID=0
Read "the main sectarian divide in the region is between Sunnis and Shiites, but it seems that Samaha¦#39;s latest campaign was directed primarily against Christians "
Best Regards
I do on occasion hear moderate Muslims speak out against the radical element within their religion. Unfortunately those that do only seem to be speaking at a whisper.
Remember the pastor in America that said he was going to burn the Muslim holy book. Most everyone in America yelled from the roof tops, Got on T.V. and proclaimed loudly that this was wrong. He was so vilified. That he didn't go through with it as planned. And instead did it later in secret. And was again vilified after he did it.
I want to hear that kind of passion from the moderate Muslims. I don't want the moderate Muslim to continue to whisper their disapproval of radicals into my ear. Then say only a little in public.
Until there is a cleansing of radical Muslims from within Islam by fellow Muslims. Most in the non-Muslim world will remain distrustful.
Köln, 22 November 2004 - "More than 20,000 people, most of them Muslim, have demonstrated in Germany against terrorism and for world peace."
That's pretty strong for a country with basically no Muslim terrorism.
@ browndude
You say - "I, for one, do not think Islam is a religion of peace!" and in the same time you say that you will believe that Islam is a religion of peace when you will learn about Christian churches in Riyadh and Cairo (post #6). You found out that there are Christian churches in Riyadh and Cairo. Are you confused or what? Do you want to take back your words?
You say I am an Islamist, probably because I stood up against your allegations. Following your logic, if I stand up for women's right to vote, that will make me a woman.
You also say: "Although the NYC World Trade Center is not a religious place but there is a mosque planned to be built there." Really? What world do you live in? There is no mosque planned. Where did you get that? On the ground where the Twin Towers were, it was erected the National September 11 Memorial & Museum (planned in the immediate aftermath) and the One World Trade Center is also approaching completion.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/19/pakistan-christian-tensions-quran-burning-allegations
I don't view it as the same. While their actions are commendable and is a start. The folks in America that at least tried to stop the book burning pastor did so at his door step. Not from the safety of a place far, far away.
The passion I'm talking about goes beyond talking. Real action is what is needed from within the Muslim churches in the Islamic countries. Not from the safety of a free country. I.E. Like a community watch that reports to authorities when they see or hear about terrorist actions or plans.
In my eyes. If your brother or sister Muslim is going to commit a crime and you say nothing because they are your Muslim brother or sister. Then the moderate Muslim turns to me in the form of a protest from within a free country and says. I really don't agree with my brothers and sisters. That does nothing but exercise one's vocal cords.
Where did I say "Islam is a religion of peace"?
Having a token church does not make it religiously tolerent country especially when the church goers are harrassed. I can say "Guten Tag" to my colleagues/neighbors but can't speak a freaking word of German. Just because I can say "Guten Tag" does not make me a German.
Google this guy "Premanath Pereralage Thungasiri". Talk about religious tolerence.
You seem to have a very myopic vision of future because you want to ignore and not learn from the past.
I think it is generally accepted that the more prosperous a society becomes the more liberal it becomes and less faithful. These are the considerations that people of Islam need to consider when moving to a country to achieve a better standard of living through prosperity. Its a double edged sword.
I would think after a generation or two the problem or religious conflict will diminish.
Muslims not only from Germany, but all over the world, including Islamic countries, repeatedly condemned terrorism. Take a look here: http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
If the Western media does not cover this actions, it does not mean that they do not happen.
Muslims Against Terrorism is actually the first Anti-Terrorism NGO in the world (founded in 1998, http://www.m-a-t.org/).
@ raandy
Do you have factual information to back up your statements? I recently heard the opposite, namely that the Christian are following the Bible much more inflexibly as the Muslims (and we know that, for example, the Catholic Church is anything but liberal).
@ browndude
You ask - Where did I say "Islam is a religion of peace"?
My answer is: at #6, as I pointed out also in my previous post.
I am glad you dropped your false idea about Ground Zero. It is a good start.
I am from Cairo, for the comments saying no churches in Cairo, i dont how did you know that there arent, we have hundreds in Cairo all of them are of same size of mosques or even bigger although we have only about 8million Christians out of ninty million egyptain which means they are minority , I would like to tell u also that the sixth of Jan. which is a Christian fest is a national holiday in Egypt, but for Saudia Arabia this is our holy land , do u like we bild a mosque in the Fatikan? I dont think so and also yourpreits, Saudia is out of question. The other thing we have and you don't , its by Islamic law it's not allowed to make fun or protest against other religions ( specially in their fest) , it's allowed in Egypt the church bell to ring for your prayers, u don't have all this here, this because in Islam to be a believer you must believe in all prophets and books and words from Allah I.e. Christianity and Jewish. I think you always hear from one side which is your media, I used when I want to know something about Christianity I ask my Christian colleagues to tell me the truth and to hear from the opposite side.
A few hoodlums would vanish on their own when public opinion would largely tilt in Muslims favor. Germany as a state does not have a streak of bias against any community. Help the state in maintaining law and order as well as calm. Be nice guys of society.
Go read and re-read my posts on this thread. The main gist has always been that Islam is NOT a religion of peace. Get the word it is NOT a religion of peace!! Islam is NOT and will NEVER be a religion of peace!
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2011/09/2011922112830399319.html
If you are a Mullah using the name ChrisRea (nice Christian name for a camouflage), then the above link would make you very happy.
@Kharabish
Why is it limited only to the Christians? What about other populations like Jewish, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs etc?! I have pointed Christians as an indicator. If you are blind to the news, every minority faith is experiencing a quiet exodus from Islamic countries. Islam is anything but a peace loving religion!
History should never be forgotten nor forgiven!
Over and out.
Oh, we are talking now on a personal note? However, you are right in this regard. I have indeed a Christian name. So yes, I guess you realise that my parents were not Muslims. And no, I am also not a Muslim.
I re-read your post. You clearly stated your opposition to Islam and also that you will change your opinion (i.e. you will believe that Islam is a religion of peace), and I qoute, "when they will build a Christian Church, Jewish/Hindu/Buddist/Sikh Temple in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and Cario, Egypt". As you were presented with evidence that it already happened, the conclusion is pretty clear - you believe now that Islam is a religion of peace. You would not take your word back, would you?
When I say Non-Islamic places of worship in an Islamic country, the presence of some rubbles or a dwindling devotee population does not mean or prove that Islam is tolerant of other religions. If you want to be blind to the news that other faiths are fleeing Islamic countries then your level of concern is different. In Afghanistan, the Hindus and Sikhs are asking UN for asylum in any country because life is no longer tolerable with the daily threats against them. In Pakistan, Christians are leaving. In Kashmir, the bombs are getting closer to the Hindu temples. In Southeast Asian countries it is a similar story.
One last point I am not a Christian but I love the European Churches and Cathedrals!! They are very pretty, masterpieces of architecture and find them serene to sit in them for a little while. My concern is you guys will pillage and convert these places of worship like Hagia Sophia in Istanbul (for one example).
One drop of water at a time and in time even a stone will have a hole in it.
History should never be forgotten nor forgiven!
Do you have figures to back up your statements? For example, the churches in Egypt seem to do pretty well to serve the 12-16 million Christians. That's not really "some rubbles or a dwindling devotee population".
"My concern is you guys will pillage and convert these places of worship" - don't worry, me and the guys like me (i.e. that respect other cultures and religions even if do not agree with them), will be the last to cause harm to places of worship. You should better pay attention to intolerant people (towards Islam and other religions) - Pro-Deutschland for example. Be very circumspect especially with those wearing brown shirts.