Canadian arrested for making Hitler salute in front of Reichstag
Published: 27 Feb 11 12:06 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/society/20110227-33381.html
A Canadian man was arrested in Berlin on Saturday for making the Hitler salute in front of the Reichstag.
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The German friend, a 29-year-old from the state of Lower Saxony, photographed him in the pose.
Making the salute is illegal in Germany – a fact widely known in Germany but often unknown abroad.
An investigation will now be undertaken against the Canadian for using an illegal symbolic gesture.
Berlin police officers confiscated the camera chip, but the man was released after posting bail.
The Local/hc
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Your comments about this article:
Which begs the explanation, why diddn't his German friend say something!?
Also paying 'security' is known as a "bond" payment.
I paraphrase George Carlin when i tell you that there are no rights...only privileges granted by governments and which can be taken away at anytime by governments as and when it pleases them.Look at what is happening to the supposed land of the free with the Patriot Act among other things..and you mention G-D...do you really still believe in that man-made Santa Claus stuff? That would go some way to explain your rose-tinted, näif way of seeing whats going on in the world.
I'm guessing it was little more than a silly stunt, most likely with no sinister intent. That doesn't really change the legal situation, but it's tough to make much more of it than that.
Insensitive? Yup. Stupid? Certainly? Criminal? Yes, but only in a limited way. Dumb? Absolutely.
Hopefully the court can find an appropriate response that doesn't make it into something it never was.
wa
@DOZ
You must not know anything about Canada because it is one of the most tolerant societies today. Albeit an insensitive act but criminal?
Though I don't agree with this particular law, though it would be a lie to say that it has something to do with free speech. This law is and always has been about protecting survivors and victims. Either way, what an ignorant a-hole.
@Canuckgirl
Guaranteed that, 1.) Your German friends know about the law and probably assume that you do to, 2.) That your German friend know more about their nation's genocidal history than you ever learned about yours (yes, Canada's treatment of Natives was literally genocide according to the standard definition). Start a conversation up with them if you really want to, it's you that's probably embarassed about it, not them, often times this is why they don't talk to foreigners about it. I truly don't mean any of that harshly or angrily, just as observations.
btw i cant fathom how stupid that canadian was and so was his "german" friend.... i would be more worried about getting beaten up by people than police :D
Perhaps we need a scrappage plan like the cars - new laws for old.
What do you mean with:
'Also paying 'security' is known as a "bond" payment.'
I assume you mean something different from the 'bond' being used in financial markets by government and corporates.
What do you mean by 'bond' and how does this affect us?
Thank you
Again, this is NOT a free speach issue for German politicians, this is protecting victims and survivors.
To the same extent that a rapist is banned from coming within so many meters of the women he raped, the nazi salute is not allowed in Germany.
I personally don't agree with the reasoning, but it needs to be understood that this is not a free speech issue to anybody, this is a civil society issue in Germany.
Those of you defending his actions as some sort of human entitlement are coming across as the type who would find it perfectly acceptable to hang a noose from a tree in a black man's yard or to burn a cross in his yard. If you can't understand why certain actions - even if they don't directly result in violence- must be legislated away, then you are lost.
I wouldn't say always, but I find myself in general agreement with you.
@ TRJ
Well articulated.
My comment is based on what my German friends have told me. Believe me, I am not embarassed to talk about it. I know about WWII and I also know about my own countries atrocities. I assume you are American so I probably wouldn't say much about Natives as well.
But your friends talk about 'that time'.
See what I mean. I've never really met a single person that wouldn't talk to me about the Nazis, openly, critically, and constructively. To be sure it's a sensitive subject, but people generally do talk about it, they don't reinvent it or avoid it.
I think you might be having a fundamental cultural miscommunication with your friends on this issue, because this stuff has been openly taught in schools in West Germany since the 60s and in the East since 1948 (albeit with more of a focus on the persecution of political opponents to the Nazis, there were many). Additionally, German kids go on trips to former concentration camps. Compare that to the U.S., where civil war reenactments take place and the south celebrates or in Canada, where the government affords no native ownership rights, etc. the world over . . .
All of that aside, every nation has its atrocities, my only point is that Germany is really the only one taking any effort to remember them. And, your friends might just be holding themselves to a standard that's hard for you or I to truly understand. Germany isn't perfect, but they do their own history better than any other nations' school systems.
The Wehrmacht 'fielded' (is this some kind of sport?) loads of good officers as well. Should we reenact their battles?
They fought for slavery, slavery is also a form of genocide (according to the standard definition). I don't see what there is to be proud of in that.
I know the south was screwed after the war, generations would be destitute in Appalachia as a result of the failed reconstruction, but surely a more honest and moral rallying point can be found.
I am not from the South and would be considered a Northerner by them.
As with most historical events, things are written afterwards to justify the victors course of action.
The Southern states did not want Northernerners which ruled based on having higher population counts to make laws they did not agree with. Lincoln was throughout his life against the act of slavery (as were many in the South), but freeing the slaves was not done until late into the war and was meant to cause a slave revolt which would weaken the South.
I know this is off topic, but somehow it got brought up.
I still think it is really stupid that someone could be arrested for what this Canadian did. Maybe fined, but arrested????
I'll concede that it was about states' rights, states' rights to allow slavery.
You might want to read the articles of confederation before talking out your arse. The facts are behind me, slavery is the primary reason mentioned in that document.
P.s. it's fun to whatch a conservative defend democrats (slavery supporting party at the time), lol.
Anyways, at least we agree this canadian guy was an #ss. Their is actually just a fine, but if you're a foreigner you get deported as well. He was likely detained and not arrested.
It was actually about Southerners wanting to count 2 or 3 black slaves as one person towards their census in order to rival the population of the North. Compare the number of Congress seats NY and CA have to the rest of the U.S. and you might have a better understanding.
It was never originally about slavery. It was about Northern states having more power than the South and the South deciding they did not want to play that game anymore. They almost got away with it also.
One of the most controversial parts of of the "Emancipation Proclamation" was its exemption of the border states. Only the Southern states that were in the Confederacy had to give up their slaves.
------------Sorry to everyone that may have had to read these side comments.
I really do not think this Canadian is a big jerk (although most are). He did not think it was a big deal, neither do I. He may be a normal guy just goofing off on vacation. Everyone just jumps out and claims he is a total jerk for doing this.
I may actually start pointing directions with a good old salute myself. Who knows, next time you ask someone where the Old Opera House is you might get saluted in the right direction.
Read the Confederates constitution. You're just wrong on this one, it was about a states rights regarding slavery, you've even tacitly admitted this.
Regarding your threat to salute, Why don't you mock rape victims to their faces well you're at it, equal effect and actually far less offensive than the Hitlergrüße.
I don't think their needs to be a law either, but I don't see why anybody would stick up for this Canadians character, please be reasonable about this. He's obviously not a responsible person.
They had a form of slavery in the North that involved white immigrants. It was a different form, but it was slavery non the less.
How would I go about mocking a rape victim? Even if I did whatever that is I would not go to jail for it. I would obviously not mock a rape victim, but this guy was not standing in front of a Jewish memorial or Auschwitz. I have seen Jewish people jockingly salute each other. Yes, it is stupid. It is like black people using the N word. Should I go to jail if I say the N word?
You do not know this Candian and neither do I. For all we know he is not a bad guy and really meant no offense to Jews. It was a bad joke. Nothing to go to jail for.
Anyway, I do not think I have it in me to continue this banter with you. Rather than making any real point you just refer to a document that does not really substantiate your argument. Wow, slavery is written into the papers. What is your point.
Sorry, I might be mocking a retard right now.
Two scenes in the movie Band of Brothers sum up the average Americans viewpoint (of course there are always extremists at eitheir end of the political spectrum). The first was the US soldier forcing the rich family to allow the wounded German Soldier to ride in their car. The second is the US Commander not interfering in the speech of the Wehermact Officer at the end of the war.
In response to this the new German democracy drawn up in 1949 was intended to have effective weapons against such attacks. This includes among other things the banning of propaganda materials used by the Nazis (including the salute). This of course is also supposed to protect the victims.
In this particular case: If this behavior was tolerated we would have dozens of people doing this every day in front of the Reichstag. They would do it a few blocks away in front of the holocaust memorial, at protests marching in organized groups, or in gangs to intimidate Jews, Foreigners, or any reasonable people. Of course this alone will not destroy our democracy, but history has shown how in concert with many other things it can.
I hope that the Canadian that did this gets off easy. But if they just let him go, what will they tell the next person that does this?
You're obviously no historian, you continue to contradict the facts. You need to read the confederate constitution and analyses (plural)of it. What's really strange is your lack of knowledge of voting rights in the Confederate states.
As for not doing the action in front of a memorial. That would be kind of hard considering the proximity of the memorial to the murdered politicians (right in front), the memorial to the murdered jews of Europe (takes up the entire next block), not to mention the fact that the entire Reichstag is a memorial (literally, and not just the dome, they also kept the 'nazi dogs' graffiti up in the halls of the reichstag from American and Russian soldiers). So you're wrong again.
Try picking up a book instead of just listening to your gut.
You are so obviously wrong that your denials just make you sound delusional.
Really. Just like the Germans don`t like to talk about WW2, the German-Canadians also not once spoke of WW2 and that includes my coward German Immigrant Mother. Just like my mother never spoke up when Canada was trying to deny me an education and I was forced to learn to read and write in secret so I could defeat them. Then they did the same thing to my son and they are still doing it as he struggles to go to College.
Interest also that I was stalked by the Canadian Military my whole life as well and conned into taking jobs where I was forced to work as a slave for Canadian Vets. Interesting how all the abuse and stalking was from British-Canadians, French-Canadians, Polish-Canadians, Russian-Canadians, African-Canadians, Indo-Canadians and Canadian-Abouriginals. Wow, all the enemies of the Third Reich.
"Canuckgirl
Now thats a mouthfull considering that all those abuse groups was actually headed by women and I suspect that is why Canuckgirl commented. That`s right and it turns out that these so called Tolerant Canadian Bigots had even gone as far as to recruit a woman to be a wife, so they could continue the abuse and keep me from knowing who everyone was, but also to add another child so they could continue the abuse game for another generation.
This organization was so sick that they even built a monument to a Nazi Commander hoping that the German-Canadian Community wouldn`t turn on them, or maybe even loose a large German Business in the area. Also interesting how at least two of those hatefull Canadian Woman Teachers, who tried to keep me from learning to read and write has xtremely strong connections to the Canadian Government.
Life is too short to be unhappy.
2) This Canadian may be familiar with revisionist historians, who are outlawed in Germany. Several of them have blown huge holes in the official narrative of "that time".
3) There was no civil war in the US. It was a war of secession. The industrial North wanted protective tariffs put in place so that the agricultural South would be forced to buy their products. The South declared their lawful right under the constitution to secede, Lincoln attacked.
4) Canadians were somewhat tolerant, but quite frankly those of my age (over 60) are fed up with the multicultural bs, political correctness, and thought controlling "hate laws". Only the chosen few have free speech in Canada.
5) Many years ago, I worked with, and had neighbours who were Germans that had emigrated. Most were prepared to speak openly about "that time". While most were critical of the leadership, believing that the war was unnecessary, some, while not fond of Hitler, spoke openly about the takeover of their country after WWi and the cesspool that Germany had become. They were proud that their country rebuilt its economy in the middle of the world wide recession. They also refuted the notion of the extremist police state as was and is projected by the media.
6) WWII was about banking. Germany became successful by bypassing the international banking crime syndicate that runs our world today. Churchill declared, in 1937, that Germany had to be destroyed because it was becoming too powerful a rival to British industry. Many have wondered how Churchill managed his extravagant lifestyle on a Member of Parliament's salary.
7) "History is bunk" - Henry Ford. The winner gets to determine the story, and it is seldom true.
This is a rhetorical question. I don't debate.
It is evidently too late for the whole of the Western World.
Decadence cannot be stopped, unfortunately, when such events, such contradictory defamation, is allowed to take place.
As far as Nazism is concerned, we do not call the Romans nor the Greeks, murdered, for fighting for their lands, for building nations, and making history... why call the last fighters for land and nation, murdered then?
This is all absurd.
Let's then unite the whole population of the whole world, under one unified country, since fighting for land is no longer allowed.
The whole world is over.
Germany, of all places.
It breaks my heart, to see this.
Sieg Heil! Fekk Allah!!
~S
"Many have wondered how Churchill managed his extravagant lifestyle on a Member of Parliament's salary."
If you wonder about that, you should look at the family house in Oxfordshire www.blenheimpalace.com, makes one wonder about the remainder of your statements.