March 22, 2010
Published: 20 Dec 09 09:30 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/society/20091220-24059.html
A kind-hearted farm boy is how villagers recall suspected Nazi-era war criminal John Demjanjuk in his native Ukraine where his trial has provoked outrage among those who knew him.
AFP (news@thelocal.de)
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Your comments about this article:
He is already confined to a medically-induced prison (his bed), and "he has already got one foot in the grave" as Olga Basiliuk so subtlety put it.
Whats the point of all this?
And his innocence was proven in Israel where they DID consider charges that he was a guard at Sobibor. However the camp inmates all testified that he was never there including one that worked in the guards barracks - he knew them all and said that Demjanjuk was never there.
Finally the US govt had evidence that proved his innocence and they threw it away. They knowingly threw it away at the McDonalds across the street.
"Ukraine's Jewish community disappeared under the Nazi occupation, with the German SS exploiting anger among the Ukrainian populace over their subjugation by the Soviet Union to recruit people for menial jobs."
Ukraine's Jewish community was murdered by the Nazis. The Nazis also murdered millions of Ukrainians. Both Jews and Ukrainians were considered subhuman by the Nazis.
Ukraine lost 10 million citizens during WWII -- a larger population loss than any other country. That figure includes 600,000 Jewish Ukrainians.
Germans are now trying to rewrite history, making out one of their biggest victims into a perpetrator. Shame on you.
the charge he is being prosecuted with, assistance to murder is being processed at all costs, even though they cannot prove he was nearby or saw anyone being killed. The OSI failed in their first attempt to convict Iwan with Israel. Now they want revenge. The OSI is out dated and will be soon obsolete. Is this revenge justifiable? What is going to happen to Iwan when this is all over? Will he be allowed to return home to see his dying wife? No. The USA will not let him back in their land. Will he ever see his wife again? It does not look like it. She is to sick to travel. Visiting time is 30 minutes every two weeks. One visitor only. And this man has not been found guilty of anything other than he wore a German Uniform. How many others are going to be treated the same way? And where will Iwan live after this?
At some point the war must end. Israel released this man. The American's released Joachim Peiper. It is time to move on. If he did these things, let his coscience torture him.
Does the left intend to try every supporter of East Germany or Russia every supporter of Stalin still alive. On what day an we expect the trial of the Russians who committed the attrocitys a Katyn??? Will we try the Communist Chinese advisors to Pol Pot, in the killing fields of Cambodia?
@Marsha Skrypuch: Let me guess, you are Ukrainian (or of CIS origin at the very least) right? Let me assure you that the people who go out looking for guys like Demjanjuk are NOT German. He is being prosecuted because he is in Germany and someone brought his past to the attention of the authorities (whose hands are tied because this subject is EXTREMELY politically charged). Once his identity was publicized, the judiciary had no choice but to begin criminal proceedings. (welcome to guilt-fueled domestic politics...)
@olenapret: This isn't about political misdirection or assigning blame!! Its about a pathetic, self-hating, guilt-racked, institutionally brain-washed German public self-flagellating themselves in the international community for sh!t that happened over 60 years ago!!!
@truth teller: lol, Even as a German, I must admit that quote is pretty damn funny! :-) .....then again, you have to think to yourself: nothing levels out the economic/geopolitical playing field better than bombing the sh!t out of a country you can't economically/intellectually compete with under normal conditions ;-)
[Side-note: one other (linguistic) thing I feel compelled to point out (for future reference):
"...and camouflaging its perfidiousness by bringing "Nazis" to... "
Not only is that an inappropriate use of the word "perfidiousness", but that statement is conceptually redundant (ie. perfidiousness is inherently covert/duplicitous, so saying that it is "camouflaged" doesn't make much sense)]
@wxman: "the world should put all of Germany on trial for these atrocities"??!! Well that would be an interesting twist in historical trends (ie. "persecuting"/holding German like me, who's parents weren't even alive during WWII, responsible). I will conclude by simply saying: that is VERY dangerous talk my friend...
I am Canadian, born and raised.
re:
"I believe the REAL (old-school) Nazis are all gone. There just aren't any left!"
There are likely plenty still living in Germany, including some who will be testifying against Demjanjuk.
@dhertzfeld: maybe he's innocent, maybe he's not/maybe "his maker" will greet him, maybe he will be greeted by a red dude with horns and a pointy tail....either way, I don't care! But for all (mortal) intents and purposes, the guy is already dead.
My overall point here is that this whole debacle is a circus act! On trial, guilty or not guilty, acquitted...it doesn't matter. Demjanjuk's circumstances are not gonna change one damned bit. The whole thing is moot!!!! (and a waste of time, money, and legal resources)
Many Jews who tried to return to their homes in Eastern Europe were not let back in their old homes. Pograms against the Jews were going on in Eastern Europe long before there were any National Socialists.
The Germans are not the only anti-Semites in the world. There is no way they could have pulled off the Holocost without willing help from locals.
The biggest problem with Demjanjuk is they don't seem to have any proof.
And as another poster indicated is is very possible he just went along with the to save himself.
Antisemitism is not the only kind of racism in the world, and your intolerant comments are an apt demonstration of that.
During WWII, 10 million Ukrainians were killed, including 600,000 Jewish Ukrainians. It is difficult to save one's neighbour when one is being killed.
@Davey-jo: I agree completely!
@Marsha Skrypuch: Yes it is "difficult to save one's neighbor when one is being killed". That's why the people that actually do it are called "heroes". In fact, that is the very definition of selfless bravery (a characteristic you will only find in
But who gives a sh!t how many people of this nationality or that ethnicity were killed??? People are people!! (the human being within my target reticle is just as human as any other. once the trigger is pulled, the people that grieve for him/her will feel the same amount of pain regardless if he is Ukrainian, German, Arab, American, Jewish, Christian, etc). So why are you emphasizing those "10 million Ukrainians" as if they were something special?
and by the way, are you just pulling numbers out of ur @$$ or what?! (10 million Ukrainians?? From where??? That figure is ludicrous!!)
http://www.infoukes.com/history/ww2/
And you mention that people who save their neighbours are called heroes. That's true. It's unfortunate that no one tried to save Ukrainians. They were abandoned by the Allies and persecuted by the Soviets and are still being made scapegoats by the Germans.
That said, even German soldiers were able to point to "Befehlsnotstand" as a defense after the war, so I don't expect Demjanjuk is going to face a harsh sentence by any measure. I still don't think the trial is wrong. The issues deserves to be tried. The very fact that people in his village say "It was war" as if that's the end of it.. kind if justifies it. Is that an appropriate response?
It's a true shame, though, that Germany has such a bad record in prosecuting our own perpetrators, all the German Demjanjuk's, who had comparatively more choice but still became cogs in the wheels of a killing machine. And many of the worse ones who got ridiculous sentences.
You are correct in saying that many Ukrainians initially welcomed the Germans in the beginning days of WWII, believing that they were being liberated from the horrors of Stalin. Of course, they soon found out that the Nazis were not exactly benign. Ukrainians were considered Slavic and thus sub-human. The plan was to kill 80% of the Ukrainian population to make "living space" for Aryans.
As for the supposed Nordic ancestry of Ukrainians, that was also used against them with the Lebensborn program, where Slavic children who had so-called Aryan features were stolen from their families and brainwashed into thinking they were German and then placed into German families.
Why do you resort to personal attacks? Do you really believe everyone in Eastern Europe treated the Jews well? You need to study history. I merely point out facts and you label me intolerant. Intolerant of what? How are my comments intolerant? If you disagree with my statements provide facts to disprove them. I would be glad to learn if I am wrong. I certainly don't deny that many Ukrainians didn't help the NAzi because they feared for their lives. It makes sense. However, the same argument can be made for many Germans. I was friends with a women whose father was a German soldier from WWI and her mother Ukrainian She told me stories of Hitler visiting the Ukraine and local residents cheering him. I am sure you love the Ukrainian people and they are a great people but not every Ukrainian is a saint and they could have been tricked by Hitler like many others. Perhaps too they saw Hitler and the German Army as a liberator from Russia and the Commu ists. Take it easy we Americans are quilty of crimes against the Natives but it does not stop us from being proud of our country.