Spread of Islam feared by 3 out of 4 Germans

maybe it's time to go to church?

"maybe it's time to go to church?"

maybe its time to stop creating 'us and them' environments

When did the Local get bought out by Bild Zeitung? What a stupid sensationalist piece of s***.

I'd like to see the study in detail. It depends on who you ask. 3 out of 4 Germans could very well be 3 Germans (say, 3+ generations) and 1/4 could mean an immigrant with a Islamic background.

Anyway, seems like a blanket statement to me. If you cut the pie a different way, maybe it'll be like 4/5 Christians fear Islam and 4/5 Muslims have no problems. Take the weighted average: bang you get 3/4 fearing Islam. Surveys were conducted in Berlin, with a Muslim community of 9%. The average in total Germany is 5%.

Just thinking out loud. Too much statistics at work today...

Michael: Exactly. Us and them environments.

Well, being a Muslim myself, i am kinda scared of that myself. Because, honestly, the religion is not as bad as the media has portrayed it. And such propaganda has caused a scare in the hearts of non-muslims which i the cause of the tension.

Secondly...in this RUSH.. many people will convert to Muslim who dont really understand the religion. It is NOT about blowing up buildings or guns. The maniacs (i'd use worse words if this forum wasnt moderated) called Extremists and terrorists just use the name of the religion to gain support for their own causes or egos. It IS like that. So this blind following of the rush into Islam will defame it even more.

It happens

Monthly Jihad Report

November 2009

Jihad Attacks: 139

Countries: 14

Religions: 5

Dead Bodies: 529

Critically Injured: 1075

The world should allow Muslims to live only in Muslim, that is, Islamic, countries. All Muslims currently living in the West should be required to return to their native, ancestral Muslim countries, and stay. Once they have all returned to their Muslims homelands, they should not be allowed to leave and return to the West. They can travel, but only to other Muslim countries. There should be a quarantine on them, as if they had a contagious, fatal disease, which they do. We have granted them the privilege of living in the West, but they are not grateful, indeed, in return, they want to kill us and take over our countries. They have betrayed our hospitality, and our generosity, and it is time for them to go home and stay there. Germans -- and the entire civilized world -- are right to fear these people. They bring violence, death, cruelty, oppression of women, a sense of entitlement and a disrespect for human life. This needs to be contained.

>Surely religion is a personal and private matter.

*should be* a personal and private matter

As I have written here before - man is a tribal animal. He needs to feel he belongs to a tribe. This explains why the world's biggest tribes (religions) have come about. Tribal survival involved "being wary" of other tribes.

@ HerrDB, Alcala and the other fundamentalist (you think you're not?) "christians". Do you not understand that your brand of fundamentalism is *exactly* the same as the brand you claim to hate?

You may claim "yeah but I don't go about blowing people up!". No, you let others do that for you. If you're that passionate about it - sign up!!

BTW that last comment is not to denegrate the *professional* soldiers of all armies currently operating. They are professionals doing what they are ordered. The orders come from those few at the top who get people like you to believe their fundamentalist crap.

Bigoted he may be, but I must admit that HerrDB is sorta a notorious veteran around here, so the (usually inflammatory) comments he makes are rarely dismissed out of hand. (why his -196 rep on TT hasn't yet resulted in his excommunication, while my +3 to +7 rep former handles got me the boot [three times!!] is beyond me!)

Anyway, I think HerrDB made a couple good points:

1) ¦quot;The demonizing going on here is more of Germans. And that's the really dumb thing. So what if Germans are hard-headed, stubborn sausage eaters wearing white socks with sandals, waking up early to steal the good spots at the pool?? That might be mildly annoying, but it's not the same as flying airplanes into buildings and blowing up trains and buses in the name of their culturally antagonistic religion(well OK, for the English maybe..) That the people here - especially those living in Germany, seem more inclined to point fingers at Germans than Muslims in all this is what's truly out of whack...¦quot;

2) ¦quot;Not all Muslims are doing this, obviously. But those who are are Muslims.¦quot;

3) ¦quot;The Jews in WWII were scapegoated in a time of extreme economic difficulty, post WWI upheaval, and frankly irrational European-wide anti-semitism going back centuries and centuries. They were not marching around, burning effigies of Western leaders, killing people - and bragging about it on TV¦quot;

Oh yeah, one more thing that I will just throw out there for arguments-sake: the prophet Mohammed was all about tolerance and living in harmony (while his group was the MINORITY!), but as soon as he was in power he "flipped the script" and started singing a totally different tune (persecution/intolerance/repressiveness). Just think about that in terms of long-term implications for Wester European society/culture...

Hello all together,

I'm not one of them, who actualy fear the Islam and some friends ao mine ar Moslems.

But I have to say, that I'm shocked by the testiness of the islamic world:

There is no relation between painting a stupid picture and burning flags or attacking an embassy.

For that I can understand, that people fear hair-trigger dogs.

All of the comments shows, that this is a sensetive topic

All this is just more evidence that RELIGION POISONS EVERYTHING. The whole idea of how ALL religion controls people using fear and the promise of things that they never have to keep is one pathetic racket, and an idea whose time is well past......

> But let's be clear, we live in a western world.

Tell that to the starving millions in Africa.

> People around the world want to live according to western values and standards

No . People like you just think they should. Just like al Qaeda and the Taliban think we should all live like them. See the parallel?

> democracy

only when you actually *have* a voice - when the voting machines work properly

> materialistic consumption

Such as owning a big house on a sub-prime mortgage, or demanding a huge bonus for driving a bank into the dust

>peace

?? do you read what you write?

Couldn't agree more aswd.

But let's not just corner one religion. I think all religious schools should be banned. I was sent to a christian school myself - maybe that's why I am now a humanist.

Removing the religious indoctrination from children would go a long way to stopping the fundamentalism we see (even on this forum) on both sides of the conflict in Afghanistan and in many other places around the world.

@aswd: I'm pretty sure that that's what UNICEF's mandate requires it to do (but do you think its working?! lol)

Good point aquascutum.

If HDB writes

"But I digress(attacks on the left just come so naturally.., so sorry if I let one slip..."

then to use logic he understands:

If you're not left wing, you're right wing.

Now look where *that* got the world ....

Islam and democracy don't mix as water and oil don't mix. #25 spot on.

When did the Local's comment boards become the Fox News comment boards.

@HairDinksBums

"MUSLIMS were guilty of 9/11"

I don't think any of the companies in the world capable of controlled demolition on this scale reside in muslim majority countries. Look very hard at who is giving you your fundemantalism before you accept it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8182697765360042032

The history book on the shelf, is always repeating itself.

Nothing to fear. You Germans, like most Westerners, live in a cocoon. London may be wonderful, but it's not England - and they will never get it back. Go look at it sometime, and see what is going to happen to you. London is a dicrarceful mess, if any of you lazy bastards would ever take a bus to the nether parts of it.

Muslims have not created a thing beneficial to Western society, and don't t give me any crap about the alphabet or counting system. What have they done for us in the last 2,000 years? Nothing - just like the Greeks.

So, Muslims/Islamics seek the opportunity and prosperity of the west and move to the west only to decide that Christendom, whatever, etc., is not better than Islam and decide they need to bring to the west, that problem they had to get away from in the east. Talk about indecisive; make a decision, but don't impose it on everyone else. Everyone else wouldn't get away with it in any Muslim/Islam country.

Everyone tolerated Islam until Islam attacked them, but that is not an argument against multiculturalism or multiple religions living amongst each other. It is only sad for Islamic people they bring these perceptions based on fact on themselves which only holds them down and keeps them repressed across the world. I'm sure there are decent ones in the world in that religion.

One thing that annoys me about Islam or the terrorists is that they are just as hypocritical as anyone else or any other religion. For example, the 9/11 terrorists of the Hamburg cell visited Wacko's strip club on many occasions. Ironic that it was called Wacko's, but in the name of religion, jihad, holy war, whatever, etc., they found it necessary to look at women without headscarves, veils, niqab, whatever, etc. before their mass killing of thousands of innocent people. Doesn't the strip club violate the ethics of Islam? Just another example of how they, like all people of any religion, contradict themselves in their actions. As my favorite professor once told his students, "we are what we do, not what we say."

@LancashireLad:

I've been cautiously self-debating (for like an hour) on how best to respond to post#104...

Here's the thing: think about the casualty/mortality radius that would result from the lateral collapse of a skyscraper in downtown Manhattan....then think about the contingency-planning prudence of (secretly) including certain ¦quot;requirements¦quot; in the building codes of anything above xxx.x feet... ;-)

all I'm saying is just think about it a little...

@Schnukel: look up Takfir methodology

[pointed/leading question]

Hi everyone. Believing in a religion is a right of human beings.Having mosques anywhere in the world where there are worshippers why not built them. In England government or boroughs help in many ways to built mosques for Muslims and why not in other countries of Europe. Islam is a religion and majority of the people on this planet are aware of it that its a religion of more than 1.5Billion people. They do have a right to pray and built their mosques same as Christians have their Churches around the world. Muslims do not go against their belief and pose no problem when they want to built a church. Its rather silly and lack of understanding that some people go against Islam or Muslims. If they understand that its a second leading religion on this earth planet they would respect Islam and its followers.To politicise for some political gains is not a good idea. It creates problems for all and that must be avoided.

Only 3 out of 4? Who's the other nitwit??

I think you've elucidated the problem right there! The Lebanese President is "calling for truce, talks,etc" with domestic terrorists! That's just weak. If I were Hez leadership, I too would tell the incumbent Lebanese gov't to f-off! Violent insurrectionists should be crushed mercilessly....not reasoned with.

I am American who has lived in Germany, has friends there and enjoys visiting. I am also afraid about the spread of Islam. What I fear most is that we never hear Islamics denounce the terror brought on by their fellow fanatics. They sure like to demonstrate when someone draws cartoons about Mohamed.

If by "unmitigated success" you mean viral subjugation of society and culture.....France.

@medic82: you and I generally see eye to eye...not this time, I'm afraid.

While I agree with you that:

"Not every muslim child is born into poverty and has no choice in what to do, the children born to muslim parents aren't forced into any sort of extremist group, that is not something they get into. Most Muslim children do grow up and have careers just like a christian child would. When you people think Muslim I think you only think about countries like Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. You forget the tons of other Muslim countries that are out there."

...you are in fact talking about an ethnicity. Not a religion. For example, according to my highschool education and religious registration here in Germany, I am a Christian. Do I go to church on Sundays? hell no (sh!t, not even on easter/christmas) nevertheless, I am statistically a Roman Catholic. But I don't connect my religion to my ethnic/cultural identity...you would be hard pressed to find a Muslim that can say the same thing!

@aswd: IRA and Jewish-sympathizers didn't give a sh!t about religion

@wassimk: OK, so 5 times a day you will be within close (walking distance) proximity to a mosque??? If you had ever been to the Middle East you would have seen people praying by the side of the road. (I doubt its much different in urban Western environments....for the truly devout anyway)

@Tiimmmmehhhhh: dude, culture and religion are not ALWAYS intertwined...

@medic: no, but you COULD reasonably assert that there is something fundamentally F#cked up about that religion (ie. a twisted-hornyness-inducing vow of celibacy) that needs to be changed.

Eg. You wouldn't ever hear: "hey dude, did you hear about Father Mathews raping the everlivin sh!t out of that one kid last Sunday?" ---- "Oh yeah, I did actually...but I guess its ok, he is a priest after all....c'mon man you've gotta be tolerant!"

medic82: yeah, exclusively screwing people of the opposite sex is pretty much universally considered "heterosexual"...promiscuity/frequency/fidelity dynamics don't factor into this at all.....I'm a guy, I like to bang women...that makes me a heterosexual (whether the men who have been happily married to the girl who they lost their virginity to wanna claim me as "one of them" or not ....)