Enke's grave. Photo: DPA

Train drivers plead against suicide on the tracks

Published: 22 Nov 09 14:03 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/society/20091122-23443.html

The German Train Drivers’ Union has spoken out against people committing suicide by throwing themselves in front of trains.

After national football goalkeeper Robert Enke killed himself on November 10 by putting himself in the path of a train, increased attention has been focussed on clinical depression, from which he suffered.

But Lutz Schreiber, head of the drivers’ union in northern Germany told weekly magazine Focus that it should also be recognised that choosing to use a train to commit suicide was unfair.

He said the decision to commit suicide was “a private decision which must be respected.” But he added, “Train drivers suffer terribly when the railway is abused in this way to take life.”

Statistics show that train drivers could expect to be unwillingly involved in two or three suicides during their career, he said.

The shock, horror and feelings of guilt experienced by train drivers put in this position were not to be underestimated, he added.

This was also mentioned during a church service shortly after Enke’s death. Hannover state evangelical bishop Margot Käßmann said, “We cannot pretend otherwise – this is a very brutal death.”

She called for those at the service to consider train drivers. “Our counsellors could tell you much about what it means to be such a train driver, or to have to collect body parts after such an accident. That must in no way be made to look better than it is.”

Adolf Merckle, a billionaire businessman whose business empire which included pharmaceutical firm Ratiopharm, killed himself early this year by throwing himself in front of a train after his company hit serious financial problems.

DDP/The Local (news@thelocal.de)

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#1
14:49 November 22, 2009 by Small Town Boy
A bit overly cynical, trek. Killing someone must be an extremely stressful occurrence for a train driver. Killing yourself is selfish enough in terms of the grief it causes your friends and family, but choosing a train to do it adds two further dimensions: dragging the train driver into your tragedy, and causing serious disruption for tens of thousands of commuters.
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#2
15:00 November 22, 2009 by Orla_inka
My best friend threw herself in front of a train.

I do not think, when you reach that stage, that you are thinking much of other people. And, boy, do I feel sorry for the train drivers.

It is, however, preferable to those that decide to kill themselves by driving head on into another car - taking others with them.
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#3
15:09 November 22, 2009 by sarabyrd
As far as I can tell the media has been very protective of the train driver, and rightly so. S/He is an innocent victim who will bear the memory all her/his life. Generally, train suicides are not reported to prevent copy cat suicides, it could not be helped in this case.
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#4
15:21 November 22, 2009 by BattalionBoy
Well I for one am happy that these drivers have stated their opinion on this matter. I was definitely having my doubts.
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#5
15:37 November 22, 2009 by suffolkrose
it isnt just the drivers that suffer its whoever has to scrape up the bits off the tracks after as well.
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#6
15:46 November 22, 2009 by Mariposa
My best friend threw herself in front of a train.

I do not think, when you reach that stage, that you are thinking much of other people. A…
I agree. As I wrote on the other thread a friend of my parents and father of a childhood friend of mine killed himself in the same way. I think anyone who commits suicide is at that point in time way too involved with their own thoughts. If that person was still capable of thinking of others, they would not be killing themselves.

But yeah, it is definitely awful for the train drivers.
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#7
15:50 November 22, 2009 by robinson100
Yes, it is awful for the driver, and I think it´s right that they finally speak out about it.

It is also terrible for the fire/ambulance crews who get called to the scene of a "jumper", but as Orla mentioned, if anybody is in the frame of mind to jump in front of a train, the last thing they will be thinking about is the driver and who will tidy up the mess afterwards.
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#8
16:10 November 22, 2009 by Expaticus
My wife has a high school acquaintance train driver who says he's inadvertantly offed numerous people. There are flies on the windscreen.

It's one of the few sure-fire ways to snuff one's self ... it's on rails, after all.

They don't call it "public transportation" for nothing ... including to the Great Beyond.
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#9
16:24 November 22, 2009 by spatown
I think it must be happening much more than we know. When our daughter came from Bonn in July, her train was delayed for about an hour - she was told that it was because of a suicide on the line.

My uncle, in the police force in Victoria, Australia, when asked why he bothered with the speed traps in his town on the Princes Highway (by an irrate driver) said he was sick and tired of scraping up bodies parts (and taking bad news to families). I'm sure the people who commit suicide don't think of this, but it is a dreadful job for the emergency services to do.

It must be incredibly traumatic for the driver.
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#10
16:43 November 22, 2009 by Small Town Boy
An S-Bahn I was on a few months ago rolled over someone. We were sat there for over an hour before being told to walk along the tracks to the next platform. There was a line of emergency-service staff at the point of the train where the body was, as a shield so we couldn't see it. Pretty humbling walking past a spot knowing there's a dead person about six feet away.

The driver's voice was trembling whenever he made an announcement.

Some incidences like this are actually drunken accidents. There were no less than two such deaths in the Munich region this weekend alone: one and two. Both young men; in a way even more tragic than suicides.
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#11
16:44 November 22, 2009 by Expaticus
I think it must be happening much more than we know. When our daughter came from Bonn in July, her train was delayed for about an hour - she was told …
I read somewhere that c. 75% of all home suicides are left to be cleaned up by the surviving family, so having public servants clean it up is clearly a superior option.

This appears to be a classic tragedy of the commons, where people contemplating topping themselves choose a method that they perceived to have been 1) prepaid via taxation and/or commutation tickets and 2) some revenge for all the times they were delayed by wet leaves on the tracks.

"Wet? I'll show them wet!"
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#12
17:05 November 22, 2009 by Chocky
Why on earth do so many people opt to off themselves this way? Surely a long rope tied to the side of a high bridge above a river is less messy? The father of a friend at school tied one end of a 50 metre length of nylon rope around a tree, and the other around his neck, then got in to his car and floored it. He probably didn't feel a thing, slightly more messy, but more imaginative than the old 'mort par le train'.
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#13
17:19 November 22, 2009 by Portnoy
Hell, even the owner of germany's BIGGEST drug company (Adolf Merckel) picked a train rather than his own product. I think it does have something to do with keeping your loved ones from scraping your brains off the bathroom wall or finding a dead and leaking you in the bedroom.
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#14
17:41 November 22, 2009 by T.O. to go
That's a very popular choice of suicide here in Toronto, especially during the summer for some reason. I do sympathise with the train drivers, that's a nightmare for life...they usually have to undergo counselling, before they can go back to the job
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#15
19:52 November 22, 2009 by MajorBummer
I really feel bad for both sides, funny enough more so for the train driver in this case. This person is just doing their job. I think we all think about them first or second after reading about these tragedies, but it's horrible for all parties involved. Words fail me on this one, it's too much for me.
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#16
20:06 November 22, 2009 by LeonG
Hell, even the owner of germany's BIGGEST drug company (Adolf Merckel) picked a train rather than his own product. I think it does have something …
It will not be a very nice funeral for the relatives either when they might not even have found all the body parts and if they took pills, it's not like they'd have to do it at home. I think it might have something to do with the train being a fast way to go as well, no time for regrets.

The people I've known who've killed themselves (2) did it by car exhaust. A friend of a friend used that method as well. A friend of my brothers tried to kill himself by jumping off a traffic bridge but it wasn't high enough so he only broke some bones. He did however get the help he needed for his depression so he is ok today.

I saw a documentary about the Golden Gate bridge as a suicide spot. They had a camera pointed at the bridge and they sped up the footage and it was like people were just lining up to jump off. They talked to some people who were the relatives of jumpers or had seen or stopped jumpers and even one guy who'd jumped himself and survived. He'd changed his mind on the way down so he tried to land straight in the water.
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#17
20:12 November 22, 2009 by Rimini
Even people so deep in the throes of despair that they are seriously intending to committ suicide will have pre-existing ideas about methods, and choose accordingly. Making a public announcement about how train suicide traumatizes innocent people might worm its way into the conscience of a few people who might later go down that sad path and maybe choose a different method.

Maybe.

I can't fault the train drivers for trying.

ETA: Public service announcements that suicide attempt by train is not necessarily quick and not necessarily deadly might help, too. Being ripped apart alive, dragged along tracks, etc.... that picture might dissuade some people, too.
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#18
21:29 November 22, 2009 by winnie17
I will never forget a nice weekend last year in Bodensee, and a trip back by train on the romantic 'Schwarzwaldbahn'. That was until someone decide to commit suicide under our train. I am sorry, but we was in the first carriage, and the sound of the persons bones cracking under the carriage will live for me forever. Last week our local tram decided to 'slam on the brakes' the same way. Luckily it was only a fault with the tram, but you think 'not again'. Like 'majorbrummer', I feel for both sides, but more for the driver.
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#19
21:52 November 22, 2009 by cookie747
My mate in england launched himself under a train last tuesday, and of course i was gutted to hear the news, could i have helped him with his depressions, maybe if he had spoken to me and other friends about it. Typical for us men though its not an easy thing to do, ask for help. We hear about woman having depression all the time, mens depression is a silent illness usually and sadly we only hear about it after its too late. I feel terrible for my friend, but i really feel terrible for the poor bastard driving the train watching as someone decides to throw himself under ya trainand the also other people in the services having to clean up after something like that.
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#20
22:43 November 22, 2009 by mlovett
Build more bridges?
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#21
01:48 November 23, 2009 by Schnuckel
If unsuccessful, an attempted suicide can turn into a lawsuit. My business law prof recently lectured that train conductors in the U.S. have sued for compensatory damages and won their case for intentional infliction of emotional distress. I do not recall, if this can come back on the families of the victim if the suicide is successful. I doubt that, but I wonder if German train conductors could sue for intentional infliction of emotional distress for those people who live through a suicidal attempt.
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#22
04:42 November 23, 2009 by parografik
"Hmmm...opportunism...I wonder if the train drivers' union is planning on negotiations soon."

It's a shame this should be starting the discussion. I know a number of conductors on our commuter line, and they say this (suicide by train) is inevitable, but dreaded by all of the engineers. They recently did an article on this in our local paper (NY Newsday), which said pretty much what this Union is asserting. I certainly don't see it as "opportunism," but perhaps a desperate plea that hopefully echoes in the thoughts of of people trying to leave this world, whatever the reason for that might be.

Happened to hear one terribly competent but arrogant person say recently, upon hearing the news of an excellent local doctor's botched suicide attempt, "he even screwed that up." I find this type of talk not just slanderous, but more importantly, dismissive of the life of this wonderful doctor and the unknown circumstances of his situation and life. There but for the grace...
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#23
08:26 November 23, 2009 by Johnne
I beg my western brothers and sisters to stop this disastrous act. I´m half nigerian/german & what I found amazing the last time I went to africa after loosing a girlfriend in the UK to sucide was that, even though the level of peverty/hardship in some parts of the continent, commiting sucide is a "no-go area" no one sees it as a solution..or something to even think of. I believe we can learn from one another as-per mental strength. Some people don´t even have 3square meals over there, they still make sure they hustle & survive.Thanx
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#24
12:18 November 23, 2009 by timw
If unsuccessful, an attempted suicide can turn into a lawsuit. My business law prof recently lectured that train conductors in the U.S. have sued for …
That happens here in Germany, it might not be well publicised but it happens, there was a case I read about a few years back where the train driver successfully sued the widower of a suicide victim (as if he didn't have enough to deal with)

http://www.netzeitung.de/vermischtes/471003.html?Schmerzensgeld_nach_Selbstmord-Schock
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#25
14:25 November 23, 2009 by punch
not sure if it was just media hype, but suicide by cop seems to have become more and more popular in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop
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#26
14:28 November 23, 2009 by BonnBonn
I witnessed such a suicide.
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#27
14:31 November 23, 2009 by lilplatinum
Why on earth do so many people opt to off themselves this way? Surely a long rope tied to the side of a high bridge above a river is less messy?
Well if you don't hang yourself properly and the fall doesn't break your neck its an unpleasant and not all that quick death by strangulation. I'd imagine getting splattered by a train is fairly instantaneous. Although to be honest I feel alot worse for the poor bastards that have to scrape you off the windshield than I do the driver.
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#28
15:56 November 23, 2009 by mlovett
These 2 German guys who were loaded with money who recently stood in front of trains... Could they not have afforded to take a sky diving trip (over water, ideally), then just not opened the chute? far less mess.
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#29
16:05 November 23, 2009 by sarabyrd
It's been done (Jürgen Möllemann).
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#30
00:41 November 24, 2009 by Stuart1977
'By all means kill yourself, just go and do it somewhere else'
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#31
18:03 November 25, 2009 by Rimini
Well if you don't hang yourself properly and the fall doesn't break your neck its an unpleasant and not all that quick death by strangulation.…
The thing with trains is that you don't necessarily die, either, nor would it necessarily be instantaneous. People have survived such collisions with amputated limbs or otherwise badly mangled. If you're unlucky, you die in the most painful way imaginable by being ripped apart.

They really need to fight this myth that a death by train is quick and easy.
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#32
19:42 November 25, 2009 by robinson100
http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=52774&mode=show&st=105

- the link to another TT topic - "would you/could you kill yourself" - there is also a survey, and it all makes interesting reading.

(post 107 is from me....)

I once voiced the theory that men are more likely to jump in front of a train, whilst women are more likely to take tablets - maybe men need to be more "spectacular" about their death, or maybe they just want to feel "sure" that it´ll work.......I don´t know.

Any thoughts?
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#33
01:14 November 26, 2009 by PCDonkey
@robinson

haven't read all this thread (my bad) but in response to men and 'spectacular' suicides I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it was more a case of getting the job done. So rather than a 'cry for help' tablets where you might be found/change your mind and get your stomach pumped (awful way to go though with paracetomol/liver damage etc)

if you gas yourself, hang yourself or jump in front of a train there ain't no way back.

sure the stats back that up (pls don't think i have no sympathy for any cries for help incidentally)

As for causing distress to the train drivers... in Nürnberg we have the driverless ones, still messy, but no driver (as long as noone's at the big window otherwise you've got a lot of traumatised kiddies/tourists on your hands). Did I say that out loud or just think it?
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#34
13:39 November 26, 2009 by Milton
What's the point of suing for trauma? Money won't buy peace of mind back again, plus the whole adversarial thing of going to lawyers and so on must raise the level of stress around it. Anyone who is depressed enough to contemplate suicide is ill and not rational anyway, so suing to 'punish'or deter them is of no value and it's just cruelty if the person being sued is the widow/widower.

Publicising the being torn apart is probably a much more effective deterrence...
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#35
15:08 November 26, 2009 by Rimini
haven't read all this thread (my bad) but in response to men and 'spectacular' suicides I think you hit the nail on the head when you said…
Could it be, though, that rather than a cry for help, most women are simply more afraid of a violent death than a "soft" one, like poison? An illusion, of course, but I don't think women necessarily are less serious about suicide when they pick less spectacular methods of killing themselves.
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#36
16:58 November 26, 2009 by PCDonkey
@Rimini - you could well be right, although as you also realise it's a popular myth that ODs an easy way out. Wouldn't have thought slashing wrists was soft though. Some hypothesise about women wanting bodies intact but who really knows why people choose the method they do? I shouldn't have repeated assumptions (please do not think totally without exp as one of my male relatives hung himself, a male friend gassed himself and a female relative took pills...the latter survived. That doesn't bear out a full argument though, sorry), I didn't mean to imply that suicidal women were any less serious in their approach - if a woman is serious she'll do it.

Merely that statistically women are reported to attempt suicide more than men but men are 4x more likely to succeed.
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#37
17:32 November 26, 2009 by Rimini
I'm no expert, either. For all I know, your theory might be correct, but I just wanted to throw the other option out there.

As with all things, there is probably a part of truth in both aspects. The intact body thing - I assume - probably plays a big role, the greater ease of being found and rescued might be partly calculated and partly a mere side-effect of that.

It would be interesting to know whether there is a difference between the sexes in terms of impulsive suicide. Whether women generally work up to it in a very emotional way, picking scenarios that allow them to experience their emotions while they do it. And whether men generally "snap" and pick a randomly convenient option that will morely likely offer a quick and permanent solution.
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#38
11:20 November 27, 2009 by hughk
Another "Verspätung wegen Personenschaden" announcement (delay due to personal injury) at Essen last night - I wouldn't be surprised if it was yet another suicide. It closes everything except the U-bahn and Strassenbahn. Apparently most suicides happen mid-week so I normally miss them while travelling but I happened to be passing when I heard the announcement.
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#39
18:34 November 28, 2009 by EnglishBav
I can't think of a worse way to commit suicide. If the attempt fails the victim usually loses legs or is badly injured in other ways. I also feel sorry for the train drivers. I feel bad enough hitting some animal on the road with my car, what must it be like killing a human?

My father's boss, a famous heart surgeon at the time, killed himself by injecting some drug or other. He left a note for my father, who he knew would find him, as he turned up first at work. It was a well planned suicide and the chap didn't want to cause unnecessary stress for others. Still took my father a long time to get over it.
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