Student protests prod officials toward education reforms

I'm surprised other countries don't model after the German education system. I find it to be fair based on peoples personal ambitions in life. From secondary school placement to University the students are given clear guidence and expectations. Even if you end up going into a trade school you are still allowed to go to University provided you compelete the requirments. Just takes a little longer.

In talking with a German Uni student last year he explained that what was frustrating for them is that the changes muddled the times some were expecting to graduate. Then some of the newer requirments invalidated completed courses so they had to start over or change tracks. I understand where this would really irk them. It almost seems like they should have allowed existing students to be grandfathered into their current track.

ok, in the unlikely event that the moderators grow a conscience and decide to allow my thoughts to be read, I will actually take the time (4min) to write this...

American universities are below European standards at the BA/BS/BSc level, but far superior to Europe at the MA/PhD+ level. (of course, I'm talking about (semi)prestigious schools or better, not some random community college in BFE Minnesota)...

Diplom here in Germany is equivalent to have a bachelor and masteral.Actually to standardize things means there are big changes to be done, and make only things worst than the the traditional way.It's not easy to change the traditional system without chaos.

Small Town Boy

English-speaking countries, a "diploma" is below a bachelor's level, whereas in Germany it's a big step above. When a foreign employer sees "diploma" on a German's CV, they'll toss it into the bin.

Actually "small town boy" the employer you know will research first what is the meaning of diploma,because a "real employer" will not toast it on the bin immediately just only looking word "diploma" they have to look at it what is that in Germany (especially it's from Germany not from a third world country).Even one of the (international) defination of diploma is a cirtification you finish a degree in university. But anyway,many diploms people got a very good job inside Germany (very highly recognised) no need to go out the country.

"Germany has such low uni graduate numbers, because the quality is frankly higher. As with most things, you can have quality, or quantity. The myth is that you can have both."

you are right because this students went to university already screened at a very early stage 10 , and the teaching process is very high standard in their highschool studies ..Means they are not in the class with a mix of low and middle learner.

Actually universities here in UK is in a total mess and to graduate you are lucky if you can get a proper job after looking for 2 years.

I am not only a graduate student in Kassel, but I have studied in 2 German universities as an undergrad, and I was manager of International Relations for the University of New Orleans for two years, and I worked for DAAD as well, so I know a thing or two about German higher education. The fact is the change to the Bologna system is vital for Germany and will bring much better opportunities to German students, so they should stop their whining. The fact is the traditional German degrees are NOT recognized in many other countries, except for a doctorate. And yes, an employer will throw away a resume with Diplom written on it because most American employers do not know what this is, and they have many more applicants with degrees they understand. You are crazy if you think they will waste time researching this. Even NAFSA, which is the professional organization for international education in the US (and the trend-setter for the rest of the world) will not even touch the issue of degree equivalent, leaving it up to members to decide. Most US schools base entrance for exchanges on semester hours completed, that is why you must always turn in a transcript. And we always based it on the number of classes completed as to where we would place students. This was a time-consuming and complicated process that we all pray Bologna will end.

And it is a myth that US universities are easier for European students, especially German students. I have seen with my own eyes, German students in the US on the verge of a nervous breakdown after about two weeks of class, because they cannot keep up. I was in both systems and by far, the US was more difficult. The US system does not allow for slacking like the German system. Take a test a year after the class ends? Please! Group work? Again give me a break! In the US originality is valued where you can be punished for it here.

Then there is the problem of ECTS credits. I know the guy who proposed this system, and it is a mess. We had to start requesting contact hour information and base our equivalence on that rather than the suggested system of conversion since the system is so flawed.

If you ask me, the student movement is again just being activist without thinking the whole thing through. the benefits of Bologna will far outweigh the problems, so get over it.

And by the way, ALL universities are underfunded, and if German universities were not so over-staffed with people who do nothing but plan ways to make students and faulty miserable, we would all be better off. Cut half of all university staffs in Germany and you will not miss them, and you will get a better system with more than enough money.

Much of the problem here is that people are comparing two vastly different educational systems, and it doesn't work.

Let me say up front that I've not attended schools in Germany, although I have researched a bit of the educational system. Errors are not intentional.

In the US, all students (in theory) attend high school until they are 17-18. There are no Trade Schools (in general) and a "diploma" is the normal result. There are schools which include "trade classes" but they are few and far between.

To enter university requires specific academic requirements, so not everyone could qualify. Almost anyone can enter a 2 year Community College, and success there can be transferred to a University. The US University is much more diverse, and to graduate requires courses in math, science, languages, literature, etc...unlike "European Universities" where the course of study is much more focused on the declared major. This has been one complaint...students are educated too narrowly.

It is difficult to evaluate degrees between the systems, and some employers don't bother. "Into the bin!"

Like it or not, the differences are putting German graduates at a disadvantage, and need to be addressed.