Non-traditional names linked to teacher discrimination

I believe I read this story in the Telegraph.

Some of it makes a bit of sense, actually. I mean, it seems ridiculous to think an Alex will be worse-behaved than a Maurice, but when you meet a kid named Chardonnay or Champagne or something, you have to be at least marginally aware that children are a product of their environments... I've never met anyone who named their kid Chardonnay but I think I can fairly well stereotype the kinds of people who do

edit: the article I read was about English children, not German ones.

I wonder if the study takes into account whether the bearers of the non-traditional names are German native speakers or not.

The worst I ever heard of was a girl in my school system a few grades below me whose first name was "Princess".... and whose last name was "Love".

Yea imagine if the kids name was 'two (e)s and a gram of coke'

lol, anonymous quote from a teacher in a Spiegel articleI have also always been a believer in that your name presses you into a certain role....

Which brings up the question: What sort of disease is "Kevin"?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90FR8m-zEH4[/media]

it is groundless snobbery and possible racism that labels kids as deficient because of their names. So what if a kid is called "Chardonay" - equal opportunities should mean that she should be given as much chance as the next child and not just be dismissed as a failure before she has even begun.

On the flip side, if I was a teacher, and I had a Fritz or a Dieter in my class, they get F grades for everything. Fritz for gods sake. now THAT is a disease.

Good thing "Moon Unit" and "Dweezle" didn't go to school in Germany.

cant help but giggle a bit when i hear the name Fritz. My gran had a dachshund when i was realy young that always used to bite me and draw blood untill one day i flicked his testicals. He ran off with a yelp and never bothered me again from that day on.

oh Fritz (bless)

[attachment=113013:miniature_dachshund (Copy 1).jpg]

flick... you little .

My parents had a dachshund called Gretchen Doppelmeyer. I wonder how well she would have done in school.

Dachsie doggie!!!

I think only Germans would consider hard-core German names acceptable. I mean, in my German 101 class in high school, we all picked "traditional" German names. Of course, a lot of us were taking the piss. We had a "Sven", a "Dieter" and a "Klaus-Dieter", a "Wiebke", and I was "Astrid".

I agree with you 100%. And in truth a kid called Chardonnay might be a fine student although her parents are toothless, unemployed alcoholics who can't read. But that isn't the point... a teacher has a duty give his/her best to every student, regardless of what they're called, where they come from, and whether or not their parents are literate; however, having worked with kids myself, you do start to notice that they all do start to file themselves into little categories. It is completely subconscious. I can't say that I ever looked at a roster and rolled my eyes, going, "Christ on a cracker, I've got a Nikita. Gotta remember to stick that one in the corner."

My two worst students though--and by bad students I mean, both of them are going to grow up to be serial murderers, one of them has already started by killing a duck with his bare hands, the other one merely broke his classmate's nose--were both named Maurice.

The two quietest, shyest and underachieving girls were both named Sophie.

And I still haven't met a Justus that I like.

Unfair? Only if it affects the way you interact with the children. But when you work with 140-200 different children in a week, there's not really a whole lot you can do about the fact that they will indeed categorize themselves.

[And to address the question "So what if a kid is called Chardonnay": It is not the kind of name which will carry the child with dignity through any situation as she progresses through life. It shows a decided lack of foresight on the part of the parents, and makes one wonder if they have the first clue about how to conduct themselves in professional situations.]

The thing that kills me is that penchant for Germans confronted by the weirdest double first names (Ernst-Mortiz, Heinz-Wilhelm, Kai-Uwe, Franz-Juergen), often teamed up with double-barreled last names (Mergenthaler-Hassenpfeffer etc.) to dutifully call people by that name for life instead of just choosing a nickname or picking the least-offensive from the whole bunch by going with C. Etwas Etwas or Chip or Tripp or something like that.

"I just had lunch with sehr geehrter Herr Professor Doktor Doktor Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft von Ulm." "So, how's Joe doing?"

My wife says there's a whole passel of Germans with weird-ass/stereotypical names like Detlef or Helmut or Wolfgang who rue the day their parents chose that monicker for them for their whole lives, but nonetheless refuse to get themselves a servicable nickname.

In an increasingly global world, kids' names need to be chosen such that they travel well. My humble suggestion is "5".

There's nothing more german than some mom on the playground yelling "Luuuuuukassss" or "Sebaaaastiaaaan"! How "Kevin" ever got into the mix perplexes me to no end, given that it can't be squawked effectively.

the only German Maurice I know is the clerk for the yearly meeting of German Quakers. I cannot think of a more intelligent, gentle, peaceful and industrious person than him TBH

And I thought all Maurice are slobs that live in their dream world....., thanks that you are trying so hard to convince me otherwise.

Something like 25 years ago, I was listening to the US Navy base radio in Iceland and they reported a study of names linked to criminality. Turned out that the kids most likely to grow up to be criminals were kids with really peculiar names and kids who are named something jr. The former maybe because they have a hard time fitting in (maybe because their teacher labeled them as a troublemaker since the day they walked into first grade) and the latter because they have too much to live up to.

Yeah, 'cause I bet they were fabulous scholars at their private school in the Valley. Teachers' pets, without a doubt. And just look at them now! (Where are they now?)

Ah, well, at least their names are memorable.

oi! I have an unusual name and all it has ever done is make strangers smirk. It has never held me back at all.

what posh paws?

Udo just sounds dumb. I probably would have failed him based on that if he showed up in my class in Canada...

And Helge, thats kinda gender-bending. Poor guy I know with that name is pretty unsure of himself, too...

PS. Before you get out your minuses, I am joking about failing the Udo kid. I am not even a teacher. Probably would smack him upside the head, tho...

I do have a question though and it pertains not only to Germany. But why do some parents chose the most ridiculous names for their children and then when they are laughed at, there's a whole big stink about it. Eg: The American Vice-presidential candidate Sarah Plain called her sons Trip and Track. That alone says to me there is some deficiency in intelligence-to saddle a child for life with an absurd name. The reality of any society is that when there are people of different cultures within that society, it's never going to be an easy ride. One has to accept certain things and try harder than the others. It's the same everywhere. I met a German in the US names Helmut. The Americans couldn't get the 'mut' so he became Helmet. Ces't la vie.

I guess the prejuduces against Kevins and Mandys are rather a West German phenomenon because they were pretty popular and common in the former GDR. There was a huge increase in English, French and Italian names since the 1970ies. Probably they sounded like freedom for the parents.

Well, they should've conducted a reverse survey by asking kids what they thought about their teachers.

Im sure a significant percentage of them would've said "i know she/he could'nt get a job at the local strip club with a name like that ".

I completely disagree with the statement that somehow a teacher's attitude toward a student because of his name will somehow affect his performance. Teachers generally have very little impact on a student's life no matter how they treat that student. In the example given regarding an athelete not performing well because the coach expects him not to, is patently ridiculous. One needs only to attend a twenty-year high school reunion to see how a given student's performance in real life is often completely opposite of their teachers prediction. Teachers in general think of themselves much too highly. They are, after all, just civil servants living off taxpayer's money. What they think, what they do, and what they predict are seldom correct IMHO.

This phenomenon is actually called 'Kevinismus'.

I must further add that I have a last name that is a delicate flower and sounds rather feminine. My first name is very rare and means "ward-of-the-door." There were times when classmates with more common or "acceptable" names would insult my name. If it went too far, that classmate would learn a valuable and painful lesson. My older brother was especially well-skilled in fisticuffs due to his last name and no one but a fool would ever mess with him. All the kids -- seven -- in my family as adults are well-educated and successful (One sister was named after a famous Swedish male horticulturist ­she was perhaps the most beautiful and intelligent girl in town, and all the Hannahs, Sofies and all the other girls with ¦quot;safe¦quot; names, couldn¦#39;t hold a candle to her). I believe we benefited from having our last name, and I might add: most girls would love to have that name, as it promised an feminine enhancement to their common first names ... at times I benefited from that. If Germany believes their teachers, the country will wind up like the Chinese with nearly all having the same name, instead of the strong and unique names earned in past times. This low regard for some names must be a facet of the "re-education" program imposed on Germany after the war. It has as its primary goal that German brilliance and uniqueness shall be smothered.

Can I draw a distinction between unusual names and made up names? The kind of names Sarah Palin (and Bob Geldoff for that matter) chose for their children are just an expression of their parents selfishness and stupidity (though in the Geldoff case that was more Paula Yates than him).

By contrast unusual names are real names that have either fallen out of favour but are still traditional in a given family or names that a couple hear and decide they like. Sometimes the novel name that is chosen after being heard can momentarily become popular. That happened with all three of the names my parents chose for their kids - one was a family name that at the time they chose it nobody ws using it ad the other two related, one to a poem and one to a song. All three names for various reasons became popular in the years we were born so that in he end our first naes, that were chosen for their unusualness, were anything but when we got to school.

Why did my parents not choose conservative names? Well we have a very unusual surname and TBH dressing that up with a 'john' or a "mary" would just look silly.

I literally LOLed at this. Guffaw. Baaahahahahahahahaha "Helmet" aaahahahahahahaYou guys are on fire! Husband now thinks I swallowed a clown. Killin me hereWell George O. also believes he conquered and overcame adversity and had the most beautiful sister in all the land, that he and his brothers slew dragons and governed with a firm but flowery hand, due to a f***ing name. Teachers aren't the only delusional ones here...

What I take particular issue with yet fully agree with is the statement "Teachers generally have very little impact on a student's life no matter how they treat that student". This is unfortunately true, not because teachers do not or cannot have the potential to significantly impact a students life, but because many/most teachers are indeed civil servants living off taxpayers' money, doing exactly the same as everyone else--just enough work to avoid being fired. "Teachers in general think of themselves much too highly" is an absurd statement however; I would love to know how long you have been a teacher, George, and how many teachers with whom you've developed a close personal relationship. I don't think you've got the first clue what you're on about.

The problem, IMO, is that teachers grossly underestimate the potential influence they have on students' lives. I would wager that George here has never been instructed by a teacher who went above and beyond the call of duty, but I have, at least three times. Examples:

Mrs. Merrit, my junior high Spanish teacher, saw that I had an uncanny aptitude for languages and took a particular interest in giving me information about universities with good Spanish programs, going so far as to take me to one. At the time, Spanish was the only subject I liked or did well at in school and believe me it is important for a student to hear that they are good at something; who knows if I would have even bothered showing up if it hadn't been for Spanish.

Mrs. Robinson, my 9th grade Humanities teacher, taught us more in two semesters than we learned in the next three years of high school. Although it was a public school, Mrs. Robinson had complete control of who participated in her program. A "C" average was not good enough, if you wanted to learn what she had to teach you, you had to have a B average or better. We worked our asses off--did easily five times the work of other History/English classes--for the privilege of staying in her class in order to continue working our asses off. Of her own volition, she organized a yearly field trip to Greece for her students, to show them first-hand what they'd learned about from her personal arsenal of books, poetry, slides, photographs and interviews. I developed a deep love of history and literature during this time, and I reckon if I hadn't taken the class I'd be reading Twilight and Harry Potter right along with the rest you miserable bastards.

Mr. Kim was my band/orchestra instructor and without banging on about it I literally would not have finished high school if it hadn't been for him. The man pushed and pushed and pushed until you either developed a passion for music or quit the program. He took a personal interest in each and every student and demanded all your time. Some kids did sports as an extra-curricular activity, we did band and spent more time on rehearsal, performance and competition than did any football player. I learned self-esteem, pride in my work, persistence, how to grow stronger from failure, and how to try, try again.

Keep in mind that I haven't laid eyes on any of these people for ten, fifteen years.

The rest of them were pretty useless sacks though.

The study reveals that the names traditional German names such as Charlotte, Sophie, Marie, Hannah, Alexander, Maximilian, Simon, Lukas and Jakob----

______________

Bonjour,

I am French, so I can say that, names as Charlotte, Sophie, Marie, are not real german names but french names...what about Alexandre, not really a german name !! what about Alexandre the great, was he a german? Alexandre is also a french name for many centuries

Jacob and Simon are names from the Bible, Jacob is more a jewish name than a german one...

But I fully agree about the name Kevin, there is many in France, my sister , a school's leader says boys named kevin associated with weak performance and bad behaviour....

AS well for girls named Ophélie, they are poor and unhappy little things not very clever and not very pretties... far away from what the name suggests..

The prejudice of discrimination is not the fact of the teachers but of the parents.

It's remind me a scandale in France about twins named Starsky and Hutch , and another one about a girl named Mégane (from the Renault´s car)

At last, Chantal and Maurice are old french names completly out of fashion in France...but instead have we many Sue-Ellen, Jennifer, Kevin, Sharon...lucky we are...

I met a german woman named Isabelle, when I told her it's a very old french name she did want to believe me and assure me it was a spanish name...

personally I do think teachers have an effect on how a child develops. I had a bloodclot in my ear in primary 3, though I didn't know it, and therefore found it hard to hear her. Instead of spotting my hearing problem she regarded me as "slow" and repeatedly ridiculed me in front of the other kids. My parents remember me becoming withdrawn and lacking in any drive. At the end of the year I was put into a remedial class and my work performance deteriorated further there. Fortunately we changed schools in primary 5 and a medical on the first day spotted the bloodclots which were promptly removed. The result was that my performance came on in leaps and bounds to take me from bottom of the class to the top. While my hearing played a part in all of this, the attitudes of my teachers in primary 3 and 4 just compounded the damage. Had we not changed schools I may have progressed through the school consigned to the scrapheap.

listen nearly all the names you listed exist in nearly every European language and names like Alexander, Sophie and Mary were GREEK originally and not French. I could use your 'logic' and say that all these names were Scots Gaelic since the names Ailig and Màiri existed in Gaelic before anyone was even speaking French.

To bell the cat,

Very kind of you for correcting my mistakes, so may I correct yours?

MariE - is the french transcription for the hebrew name Maryam, -as MarY is the english transcription- SophiE is the french transcription for SophiA ....

Have a good week-end ! :)

I'm afraid you got that à l'envers: Mégane/Megan is a variant of Marguerite/Margaret (origin: Greek) and therefore certainly wasn't invented by Renault. What is true is that since the introduction of the Renault Mégane [edit: just looked it up, the year was 1995] - not surprisingly - fewer and fewer French(-speaking) families have opted for that particular name.

This is slightly off topic, but this reminds me of an uproar in my area a few months back over how these parents named their children:

Holland Township family angry that supermarket won't personalize cake for their son

Call me crazy, but Adolf Hiltler, JoyceLynn Aryan Nation, and Honszlynn Hinler Jeannie are terrible names for a poor child to have, and its no wonder they were taken into foster care:

State removes Hunterdon County child named Hitler from home

Slightly more on topic:

Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned a study they read about a correlation between unpopular first names and crime. I remember reading a similar study, so I've attached it as well:

First Names and Crime

It always amazes me how much a child's surroundings and outside influences effect their behavior. It really makes you wonder about the whole nature vs nurture debate. (Personally, I think both have an influence and which wins out is dependent on individual cirmcumstances.)

Oops, I just realized that first link isn't working:

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/today/index.ssf/2008/12/holland_township_family_angry.html

I don't think teachers necessarily discriminate against names that are unusual (for example, mine is really unusual in Germany, but I have never had any problems due to it). Names like Kevin are anything but unusual in Germany since that movie Home Alone (that is how it got so popular in Germany I think). But a lot of times it is the "white trash" type of family giving a name like that to their kid. I think that is how a certain prejudice against Kevins, Justins, and Mandys came up. It is not the name per se, but people know (or think they know) in which social environment kids are named Kevin, Justin, and Mandy in Germany.

Of course it is wrong of teachers to label them because of their name or social background, though.

Bouncer Lily? Damn, dude, I feel sorry for you...

Durward Lilly?

A coworker of mine was telling us today that he's very proud that he managed to name his kids something that nobody else had thought of. Both his kids have English names, not unusual names in the US although not highly common but definitely one off names here. I don't know if that is supposed to help them in life or what. In my experience, whatever your name is, other kids will accept it if you grow up with them but if you move, the new kids may find your name funny if they haven't heard it before, even if it's a fairly common name.

I find that (on my other ID card) using the name Richard Long, call me Dick for short is highly effective. Okay, give up the red marks...

I know someone who happens to have one of the more common names in Germany: Sebastian. Although it is a more traditional name in Germany, he was kicked out of at least 9 schools when he was between the ages of 8 and 15 for multiple reasons. He comes from a well-off family and is now the owner of three companies, teaches seminars about body language, business communication manipulation techniques and such ... what happened?

You dare to diss maurice? All man the space cowboy?

Well, it appears #30 is still seeking favor from her high school teachers. One can well remember this type of student: always insecure and looking for direction from their "teacher". Masters of the kiss-up, they were. I'm sure all three of those teachers mentioned would duly appreciate the squeals of gratitude. Speaking of names, one must especially note that the band leaders name was Mr. Kim. This is most unusual,if he was as his name might indicate, a Chinese person. #30 probably acquired a deep appreciation for Chinese music and cacophony in general. We all know what it sounds like, and I'm sure that everyone has an albumn of Chinese music. There is hardly anything so special as a discordant note.

It doesn't surprise me that the Grundschule has been caught in biased and damaging behaviour. In my experience with my daughter, some of the teachers behaved in a racist and incompetent manner. Even though the head teacher was not so bad, she allowed it to happen. In summary, they have a lot of unintelligent, incompetent staff compared to other countries. Which has also been highlighted in the PISA studies.

wow george. just wow.

Kim is a Korean name by the way, as anyone who's ever picked a book is aware.

Ummm, if your referring to dessa, that was #31.

Though it's cinched up all the way, #31's baseball cap still fits loosely. It¦#39;s all due to that sub-standard calvarium. Perhaps a bit more fuzzing up of the hair might help.

Please reveal more about ¦quot;Kim¦quot; being exclusively a Korean name.

While it might not be *exclusively* Korean, the Chinese equivalent would be Jin.

In real life here in germany when a child is bad in the class, we dont look the meaning of her name (we don't care the meaning) but what we immediately like to know who are the parents.In my experienced mostly children in Gymnasium (this elite children as what we call),mostly they belong to the parents with a high degree of education and many in Hauptschule children, mostly parents are in lower working class or from broken family.

there's no descrimination of the names here.The descrimnination exist in what kind of school your child belong to (when they are 10).Gymnasium (highly intelligent children).realschule (middle) hauptschule (low).The children belongs to the third category they felt bad. Many parents when their kids is from the high category prohibiting that their children mingle with those who are in Hauptschule.

[attachment=113088:kim_wilde.jpg]

Really? I thought she was Cambodian...

Well obviously there is or they wouldn't have published the results of the study. Did you happen read the article posted at the beginning of this thread?

I dated a Kim and she was from North Dakota. OOhh, cold woman...

No matter the "Kim" the "music" is the same ... unless it's the diminutive of Kimberly, in which case it's music of a much higher calibre.

The Chinese, "Jin", is of recent form. It changed from "Kim" about the time Peking became Bejing. Who can even keep up with these arbitrary changes, and let alone who cares? The important thing is that one doesn't have one of these as a school band leader, lest a strange and peculiar "slant" be introduced into what would otherwise be music.

One of these? Slant? I think you need to watch yourself, Door-Ward.

My guess is that he's actually called Cerberus.

"Elite" children?? Excuse me while I vomit.

What always totally irritated me was the way some parents were "Gymnasium" parents, even when the poor little kid was only 7. His future was all mapped out, and woe betide him if he didn't make the grade. Pushy doesn't even come into it.

Westvan, even you are having trouble telling them apart, given your puzzling over the spellings. However, I think you scored points with Merkel's STAZI, due to your spontaneous preening for political correctness.

"Merkel", now there's a name with a ring to it. One can bet she was tops at the Communist League Hauptschule.

Give the group in nearby Barsinghausen my best greetings.

Bell will be granted a promotion.

If you read Freakonomics, there is a chapter in there about name migration... as certain names start becoming popular with the non-educated classes, they become less popular over time with the educated ones. So, there is a correlation (at least in the US) between certain names and level of education. Intelligence is a totally different matter, imho. A lot of these f**k-ups are actually very bright... it comes out later in life, when they become very successful in business or whatever, while their 'smart' classmates are doing something highly mediocre...

PS: George O, you are disturbed

This definitely happens.

My little half-sister had a toy stolen and hidden from her by a boy in kindergarten class, which was discovered a couple of days later. The kindergarten teacher's comment to her mother asking which boy: "Starts with a K- and ends with an -evin." That kid will grow up being treated as a failure. Self-fulfilling prophecy and all that.

Which is especially tragic because primary school teachers have a big influence on the self-esteem and future of young children. Mine was a crap teacher, picked favorites, mocked the "slow" ones and hit me with a book for lying about homework. She didn't have the first clue about dealing with my highly advanced reading and writing skills, nor did she ever interfere on some pretty dang obvious signs of parental neglect. An actually competent teacher might have made a huge, huge difference in my life.

The thought that someone like her decided the academic and professional future of every kid in her class after 4th grade is abhorrent to me. So the thought of teachers today sorting kids into boxes of behavior and leaving them there (because their name and apparent background have predetermined their fate and they only exist as an impediment to the "good" children) is similarly disheartening.

I've given this a think, and have conluded that most middle and upper-middle class people like the multi-track system because it weeds out the potential competition for "good" (i.e., existing, white native german) parents. The teachers are clearly behind it, too, because the more flavors of school the place comes up with, the lower the economies of scale and the more teachers and bureaucracy have to be employed.

In the US, where students of Asian descent routinely finish at the top of their high school classes (even after generally taking the tougher math and science routes) even if their parents run dry cleaners and don't speak much English, there's an undercurrent of grumbling over the intense competition for slots at elite universities that have some "natives" talking about having to reinstitute quotas. Imagine that: A system in which immigrant students are so successful regardless of their name happens to be that the "native" families have to worry about their kids being bumped aside! Clearly, this is the result of hard work and perserverence on the part of immigrant kids, but the public preparatory education system apparently serves them and their parents well.

Here, even though university education is "free", a shockingly low percentage of the population goes on to higher education, which makes it a more scarce commodity ... especially in a country where well-paying, white-collar jobs growth is stagnant to declining. Low quality and the ludicrous complexity of the German language itself makes it much more of a "closed shop" already, dampening competition from other areas of the world (not many elete school kids from the anglosphere competiting for german slots, but plenty of german students applying to Oxford and Harvard).

Therefore, it's highly likely that when maternity ward nurses are filling out the paperwork for a newly born "Kevin" (or "Muhammed"), a lot are secretly thinking "whew ... less competition for "Lukas".

How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb? Just one, but the lightbulb has to really want to change.

I don't know.

Considering the prejudice against children who don't go to Gymnasium and their social background, they're more likely thinking "Great, another little neonazi school drop-out living off Hartz IV and voting for the NPD", in the case of Kevin if they are inclined to feel judgemental. I don't think anyone is happy with the idea of more "problem children", competition or not. Most people are aware that there are big problems in the German school system and that it has a negative impact on society in general.

We can't all go to university. Somebody has to do all the other jobs. The German system may seem cruel to us foreigners but it has a point. Why does a worker or a tradesman need a university degree? Answer: He doesn't.

It's not like people don't get an education here though. It's just not at a university. I am currently working in a cardboard box factory. Some of the people start there straight out of 10th grade, others later. They do their 3 year apprenticeship in box factory science or whatever it's called and then work there all their lifes, making tons of money. I don't see anybody there crying about not having gotten into gymnasium. I have never heard a German say anything against their education system actually. If they don't have a problem with it, why should we?

I've heard plenty of Germans complain about the education system, especially the selection process after only 4 years of schooling. Not every child that doesn't make Gymnasium at age 10 is actually disinclined toward academics. They just weren't at their top game in 4th grade and that decides a LOT about their future. Before they can even form a reasonable idea of what they might want to do. Then there is the lack of proper integration of migrant children who might not even speak the language. There are lots of cracks for kids to fall through.

It's not all bad, but there are many things that should be improved.

Oh man, the standard of English teaching in German schools definitely needs "creticising".

stefeoo1, have you ever thought that you are on the wrong website? I'm sure that there are plenty of "Ausländer Raus" websites that need your "KNOW HOW"...

Love it.*westvan runs off to change username to Crazy Alien*.

At my daughter's school, there's a lad with the surname "Angel". His parents have given him the incredibly witty forename of "Dark".

No response from the Germans on hearing his name (they pronounce it as "Angle"), but I got out the garlic, silver bullets and wooden stakes!

We have bad english? We don't need english advisor here mostly they are failure.We have many success in this country because of our language.

Yes, learned is learned, Hr Lübke...

Who is "we"?

Can someone translate this to English for me, please?

I guess Dick Butkus' name never held him back, but I do wonder how my friend's cousin managed through school with the name (honest) Harry Butts.

Are you sure his name isn't Dirk? It seems that even most Germans would pick up on a combination like Dark Angel. (Good lord...)

I used to work at a hospital in medical records. To this day, my favorite name is Tequila Margarita Champagne. There were also twins named Daqari and Margarita. There was Areola. I also don't think parents should name their children stipper names like Cinnamon, or Blaze.

If my wife and I have a son, I want to name it Ernst-August. She (the German..) is opposed, but I'm ganz schön ernst.

I guess she doesn´t like the "pee and bashing prince" Ernst-August of Hanover

The US has far funnier names that Germany. Here are some true life names I've encountered:

Mona Horner

Harry Lipschitz

Minnie Merkin

Wilford Sweat

Gloria Grinditch

Fanny Finkelstein

A longish thread on the same subject

Stupid names for children

There are some really odd names in there

Two more peculiar names:

Myrna Wallfisch

Myrtle Merkel (Cousin of Angela living in Israel)

Two spelling corrections:

Gloria Grimditch

Wilfred Sweat

And all the non-European (ie dark-skinned) children are automatically, in the teacher's mind, delegated to Hauptschule. Even if she never says this aloud, that is the case. That's my experience anyway.

We knew a family, black Caribbean mother, German father, dark-skinned boys. The elder son got a Gymnsium empfehlung, and I understand that there was almost a riot in their village, from German middle-class mothers who didn't get a Gymnasium recommendation for their precious darlings!

My brother had a Grundschullehrerin who instead of celebrating pupils' birthdays, celebrated their Namenstag. So all the kids with traditional German names got a celebration, the two or three Turkish kids and my brother (who has a non-German name) didn't get a celebration.

The only two really dark-skinned children (Pakistani) back in my 4th grade class both got a Realschule recommendation. Hauptschule was reserved for a German girl and a Turkish and a Mexican-American boy - all three from the "poor quarter" of course. All three kids with Gymnasium recommendations were from the same rich quarter too of course.

Isn't your experience with the son of the Caribbean mother recommended for Gymnasium kind of contradicting your statement that all dark-skinned children are automatically delegated to Hauptschule?

Like this is a German problem, it occurs in every county! Parents should just think about a name in the long-run. Can you imagine going through life called "Bunny" because you were born on Easter, poor girl in my school. Or my cousin, Brandi, her mom was young and wanted a dog with that name. She is lovely, but the name definitely leads to other stereotypes besides Surpreme Court judge. On the other side are all of the children of old hippies which get to grow up with names like Sunshine, Reign, Sky Blue Diamond??

they don't celebrate "German" names on Namenstag but names of Saints. So any christian name whether English, French, Italian or Russian can be celebrated as long as it is derived from a Saint's name. Still, this doesn't help the poor sods who weren't named after Saints, like most Turkish kids.

In some areas, especially the strong catholic areas, Namenstag is more important than birthdays and families tend to celebrate these more. It was certainly so in my ex-wife's case.

Any teacher who discriminates against a child because of the first name should not be allowed to teach, This teacher who said that Kevin was a diagnosis need serious professional help and is at the wrong place teaching at a school!!

Kevin is a beautiful name, and if you ask me I think of a quite neat clean boy, but I am aware of the fact that there are different kinds of kids with that name.

I have asked some people's opinions, mostly in the US and it showed that over 80% of the people in other countries actually think of a quiet shy but intelligent boy or have made that experience with someone named Kevin.

And Chantal by the way is a French name that if you went to France you'll certainly find many different people with that name as well, even though the name rather sounds fine and upper class, while here they think it sounds like someone poor and stupid.

This is ridiculous.