Published: 15 Jun 11 17:40 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20110615-35689.html
Silvana Koch-Mehrin, once a leading members of the Free Democrats (FDP), on Wednesday became the latest public figure in Germany to be stripped of her doctorate for plagiarism after the country's defence minister was forced to quit earlier this year.
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Your comments about this article:
Louis; it is impossible to write papers, theses or dissertations without hundreds or thousands of information sources. There is nothing wrong with this, as long as one cites every bit of information. One is supposed to form an abstract, formulate hypotheses and theses, and analyze and argue such theses using the citations as support. It is the analysis that matters... not the information in the citation. My guess is that when someone plagiarizes, they plagiarize the analysis, not the supporting information.
@ gerhardt: You are most correct!!!!!! Take it from somone who has had to go through the process and was found not to plagarize (yes, they did run it through a database check).
them to be exemplary human beings. Putting their character into question is a tactic used by their political opponents to take focus away from their acheivements. One might say that plagiarizing a doctoral thesis breaks the bond of trust that society places on a politician. But do any of us truely trust any politicians?
My point is that hypotheticals, like saying a public figure's ambivalence toward lying and cheating will potentially affect the outcome of their performance, is not relevant when compared to their record. The most important thing is that they acheive results in a reasonably ethical way, to the best of their constituants interests. None of us are perfect either, so what is with these lofty expectations? It's unreasonable.
No it isn't unreasonable. If I lie about my qualifications or experience when applying for a job, I can expect to get sacked if/when the employer finds out. I don't see why politicians should be allowed some special treatment. These people have set themselves up on pedestals as our leaders and take our taxes to pay their salaries and expenses. I don't care if a politician doesn't have a doctorate or any university education, as long as they do their job - but if they are going to lie and cheat, they should expect to lose their jobs, just like the rest of us.
In what way was Guttenberg "good at his job"? What experience did he bring to the table? What has he ever accomplished?
"simply because they made a mistake in their personal life"
Having wild sex parties in his castle's dungeon would be a "mistake in his personal life", and I wouldn't give a damn.
Obtaining a doctorate through plagiarism is professional misconduct and calls into question his job qualificiations.
I bet she'd happily throw you in jail for downloading a CD.
Yup! True Conservative Family Values there. Belongs in the dungeon with Guttenburg. Throw away the key.
That said, the Internet has been an effective tool to find plagiarism that certainly existed in 2000 when Koch-Mehrin slipped by, and darned sure was available when Gutenberg slid by. German academia has nobody but itself to blame for the dilution of a Deustch "Dr." title.
He used to be popular, indeed. But his popularity was based on his appearances and manners, not on being good at his job.
Everyone makes mistakes. However, if one tries to cover up an old mistake (and this is exactly what Mr. zu Guttenberg did once confronted with the accusations of plagiarism), it means both that the respective person has a deceitful character (which makes him/her not worth of being elected in a public position) and that that person does not have a high understanding of how public opinion work (which would also not recommend him/her for a public office; I resisted the temptation of using the word "stupid").
Apparently Ms. Koch-Mehrin does the same. She does not contest the fact that she is a plagiarist, but that the University has the right to withdraw her academic title once it was awarded. Funny, isn't it?
The problem is not limited to politicians. In Germany many students do plagiarise and this goes unpunished by most professors. Actually it is even worse. Professors encourage this behaviour by doing the same thing - they put themselves their names as authors on papers written entirely by students.
This indicates a substantial weakness in a t least some German university examination procedures and practices. The university system needs to aggressively respond to this apparent problem or risk becoming like other EU countries who bestow the title of Doctor or should I say Dottore?
All these phonies deserve to lose their jobs at the very least and probably prosecution as well. Their cheap pretense demeans those who actually worked hard on their doctorate. Some jail time would go a long way in reestablishing respect for academia.
JG. - You're right, if a person lies about their qualifications, they should lose their job. However, politicians lie to 'the people' all of the time, and still keep their jobs. Why is plagiarism worse than lying about sexual misconduct, for example? Or a leader lying to their citizens, gaining flase support for a military conflict? I think some people get persuaded by media exaggerations, then get overly-excited and think themselves all-knowing judges. Maybe I'm a bit jaded, but in my opinion we need to judge politicians on a curve. Otherwise, we'll be too cynical about EVERY person in a leadership role.
plagiarism ,theft? but one is for personnal use eg to hear,the other is for personnal gain and is fraud which again is a crime .
When will I read of one of these lawbreakers being brought to book ?,
never because one law for them and one law for us.
OK, so we have a majority here saying Plageurizing is a crime, anyone convicted of it should lose their job, lose their title, maybe go to prison. We see that majority say that plageurizing is a sign of deceit, and that if you would do that, you would do anything. We see oft, above, that if you think the punishment of Guttenberg was too harsh, you are also prone to be a deceitful liar yourself and that you probably bugger sheep (I just added that for fun).
I wonder, why so much thought behind all of this? Why so much anger? Why do you all care so much? How many liberal or Green politicians are guilty of the same but no one is looking into them? If two did it, it is probable that many others have too. Hell, I needed a Thesis fro my Master's. That took long enough and was hard enough as it was. So how many in germany have a master's via plageurism?
Better get the detectives going and find the rest. Teh fact is, you can bet your life several are guilty of it. Why isnt some paper, FAz not looking into everyone of them? WHY? because it would find that my assertion is true. It woul,d mean the end of a bunch of politicians, and liberals are more prone to dishonesty than conservatives, because the mantra of the liberal left is that ends justifies the means. Shut down the entire government. If you can't stand for a conservative to do it, why not look at everyone? Because no one cares if it is their candidate, only if it is a successful candidate of the other side.
Baffoons, fools. Look into the problem and see how deep the river actually is. What is your next step when half or more of the politicians have to quit? Where will you get the next Honest candidate with integrity?
"Baffoons, fools. Look into the problem and see how deep the river actually is. What is your next step when half or more of the politicians have to quit? Where will you get the next Honest candidate with integrity? "
So you are saying it is our fault that she lied and cheated ,but it does not matter because none of the others are better ?(the right wing press are seaching to take the heat off) .
As someone said she has not left her seat in the Euro. Parl. because the perks are too good.
Greed and fraud good bedfellows these.
"the mantra of the liberal left is that ends justifies the means" - I wonder where did you get this from. Recognised American law professors like Tom Farer or Kenneth Anderson say that consequentialism is typical for neoconservatives. What do you know that they do not? :)
It is easier in Europe as there are more open minded liberal raised kids. Where you cant spank your kid, you reason with your 6 year old. You already think that Socialism is great, and everyone can have everything, and all you all have to do is pay all of your earnings to the government. You get free medical care, but it is rationed. You pay for insurance to the government, and except for France, you pay so much money to a dentist and get little help. I know you pay 19% Value added tax on products to support these criminals that are politicians and are not getting your money's worth.
I know a great deal as I have been on many continents and seen the rich and the poor. I know you wont be happy until you are sucking the last penny out of the last working person.
This is much deeper than plagiarizing. This is a war against decency and morals. At any cost. It is morality, proper to plagiarize? NO, but in thescheme of things, it is almost too late to do anything about anything. To have credentials to riun for office, people expect to have the highest educated, youngest and sexiest/handsomist (not a word) person. You cant be young and know everything, you have to age to get that kind of knowledge. In this world, we look at how good looking the candidate is, not what their qualifications are. So to be qualified, the young have to cheat to be considered.