Most Germans see Muslims as a burden

And tomorrow we'll have an article saying that almost half of Germans see East Germans as a burden, then it'll be mmajority of Germans see long term Hartz IV recipients as a burden... and on and on...

But interesting that only 1/3 believe Germany is becoming dumber because of immigration, with so many Germans thinking that all Muslims are immigrants and coupled with the reported fact that so many Germans oppose Google's Street View on ground of privacy, I would have thought Germany was already pretty dumb.

lilplatnum, there will come a time when we will all be separated into only two groups.

I think there is a small error in the last sentence, shouldnt it be "Thesis", or is it "Theses"??

@Motorhead_toto, "theses" is the plural form for "thesis".

@internationalwatch, very good points, pleased to see some sensible comments about immigration. I don't know why their closed little minds just can't seperate religous belief from nationality or race, but they keep on going on about Muslims as if it is a foreign thing. Last week on German TV a talk show was asking a woman whose parents were Turkish immigrants why she wears a headscalf, implying that by doing so she wasn't intergrating, now I'm sure they wouldn't say the same thing to a Mormon wearing a suit with that little black name badge or to followers of Haredi Judaism that wear wide brimmed hats or a kippah, so why do people feel the need to distinguish Muslims who dress a certain way to be foreign and accuse them of not intergrating? Just for the record I know more Germans who are Muslim than immigrants who are are Muslim, how crazy is that?

I see the problem in the system. I am an Engineer from Bangalore who is working in Germany from last seven years.I have contributed to German taxes and economy.For me i have to extend my visa every year or so and have to pay money each time.For permanent visa i need to complete an Integration course for 650 Hours.Amazing thing is that inspite of paying so much taxes i have to pay for this course.At any point of time i had no job i would be thrown back to my country.Now other side of story... Any terrorist,killer,uneducated and unskilled can come to Germany illegally and can claim political asylum.Germans give them nice rooms to live in,for which they do not have to pay any electricity or water bills. Any kind of health insurance.They are paid for Integration course.They also get money from Government and on otherhand they work illegally and earn much money.They cannot be deported and sent back as they have claimed asylum on false grounds.On other hand an educated guy in Germany constantly lives under a fear whether his job will continue or he is fired,whether he gets visa or not,with short term visa he cannot take credit for house or car and many more problems.I feel it is easy to live and have comfortable life in Germany when you misuse the system and your life becomes hell when are you educated and paying taxes so that the useless people can enjoy with your money.Germany is making the life of working people more and more difficult and is becoming heaven for people who want free money and house from government...

I am Muslim, I wok, I pay taxes, I do a master degree here, I am open minded, I dont want to convert anyone to Islam or kill anyone as one fellow said above, so what is wrong with muslims?

@indian2000 -

The work permit thing happened to Europeans too, even when European law prohibited it, unless you are a German with German qualifications then "they" really don't look kindly on anything beyond the border.

_______________________________________

@Hicham1st

I'd say it is nothing wrong with Muslims, it is these closed minded biggots who are afraid of what they do not know and are too stupid to think for themselves and make their own mind up.

moistvelvet,

wake up.

its a fact that e.g. most turks ARE muslims. it's a LITTLE BIT different than europe = christians because your right THAT is most of the time not the case.

maybe you should also read a little bit about what happens to muslims who try to get out of the islam: they get deathtreats, but not only them, the hole famaly and so on.

i wonder if guys like you will ever wake up or only will do so if its all to late. how did this one great muslim say: "we conquer europe without even shooting one bullit" ...

Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,

Since attending our local German school my 2 children are getting dumber (and they are of no fixed religion). They were both privately educated in England prior to moving here 2 years ago. The 12 year old was showing great promise in Math & Science. After attending Gymnasium for 9 months, the school decided he wasn't managing. He wasn't managing due to his lack of understanding the language, not because he couldn't manage the task at hand. He failed an English test for chrissake (all questions were in German). It's very frustrating of the lack of support, in all level of schools, to help integrate children. My 10 year old joined the local Grundschule at the beginning of 4th grade. He did not know any German. There was no extra assistance given by the school to help him or the family. At the end of 4th grade, we were informed by his teacher that he should attend the Hauptschule. I don't think it's the Muslims at fault here. If you're not German full stop. The battle goes on.

hey! leave the kebap sellers alone will you? I love kebaps!

please have more places for kindergartens!! how could my child integrate if they are always full?

@Indian2000

As per law:

If any immigrant (or foreigner) is paying taxes (working) more than 60 months (or 5 yrs), he/she is eligible for permanent stay (Daueraufenthalt) in Germany.

The points you have mentioned about uneducated and unskilled people of getting free rooms on basis of being Asyl, getting money from government and working illegally (schwarzarbeit) is 100% true.

I meet such people everyday as Asylheim (Asylantenheim) is near to my room and i stay in a town (kleinstadt) where one meet or see same people many times in a week.

At present I am suffering from German laws to get family-reunion-visa for my wife. She is well educated (CA - charterd accountant) and working as software consultant. Even after having all the required documents with us, Ausländerbehörde is not interested to start the visa process from here. We both were in person to the Ausländerbehörde here as she is in Euope on Schengen Visa.

The rule is:

- She can not apply from Germany for family-reunion-visa as she is on schengen visa. OR

- She can not apply from Germany as I am not having Daueraufenthalt.

As I don't have Daueraufenthalt, I can't properly invest in my new house because I don't know when they will kick me out if i loose my job.

I wonder what they are going to prove different from the same documents in German Consulate, Mumbai.

The Ausländerbehörde person could hardly UNSTERSTAND English and can't speak English. Still we foreigners must do Integrationkurs, but not these people. My wife has some words with the person in English.

(Ich verstehe kaum, was Sie sprechen. Vielleicht meiner Kolleg versteht Sie besser als Ich.)

Next generation of uneducated and unskilled people can not be that intelligent. So i suppose, issuing visa (if possible - passports) for educated immigrants is beneficial for Germany and its future.

Regarding more laws - rules and regulations for immigrants in Germany, visit trust7 website.

Just have patience, improve German language, study their laws and take action quickly whenever you falls in any categorey of laws. That is beneficial for our career and life.

Englische Rose I really am failing to understand the point you are trying to make here. Are you saying as you came to Germany of your own free will the German society should give your children special assistance? If your children cannot speak German then its YOUR responsibility to teach them, not the states. Why should you and your family gain any special privileges at the expense of others? If your children were privately educated in UK why not privately educate them in one of the many English language schools?

Your post is shows what I believe to be the root cause of the issues of immigration; you expect to be treated differently to the indigenous society. This "special treatment" breeds the contempt and anti-outsider feelings that the report details.

My wife and I came to live in Germany over 8 years ago, initially on a temporary contract but are 100% settled. We don't expect any special help from the state, have taught our children German and worked at understanding the traditions and culture of the country which we have chosen to make our home. WE have made these efforts, WE have integrated ourselves into the German culture, WE have educated our children with the language skills.

Anyone wishing to live in another country has to work at integrating, you cannot expect the new country to take on your native lands traditions. You take the country for what it is, the rough with the smooth and if you don't like it you move back. Too many people nowadays expect everything to be handed to them on a plate without putting in their own efforts.

So coming back to the original report I believe most of the negativity surrounding immigration is down to the expectations and willingness to integrate of the immigrants themselves. Unfortunately what I see is the Turkish and Muslim immigrants general unwillingness to integrate into the host society but instead try to change area's of the host to their own liking. (I accept this is a generalisation and I really don't want to offend any specific groups, but it is what we see) Thus articles and surveys like the one reported exist.

@Motorhead_toto

Theses is the the plural of Thesis.

'Die Muslime sind unser Unglück!'

hmmm...that sounds familiar somehow...

In other news, most germans see immigrants as a burden

In other news, most german see "....." as a burden

In other news, most german see "fill as you wish" as a burden.

Where did I hear this story before... uhm..

History teach us that we don't learn anything from history.

@Indian

You make a very good point re: the (often dubious at best) "asylum" system and how it slaps the face of those who wish to immigrate, integrate, and contribute to the host society. European leadership needs to learn that quality is more important than quantity, and that no nation, Germany included, is obligated to accept as many self-titled asylum seekers as possible, especially those with a proven track record of unwillingness to adapt and integrate.

I don't know the statistics in Germany but if they are anything like the statistics in the Netherlands then Muslim migrants take out more from the system then they put back into it.We've had calculated that Muslim migration has cost the Netherlands about €220 billion over the past few decades and third and fourth generation immigrants continue to be a drain on the system.Continued migration of non-Western immigrants calculated at just 25.000 a year,costs the Netherlands about €7,2 billion each fiscal year.The extra cost is due to increased reliance on welfare and higher crime figures.Also the cost of integration and schooling is calculated into this.I doubt the situation is very different in Germany.

I was following the discussions in ToyTown and the comments on the news articel published here. I feel that Toytown and thelocal.de is promoting hatred against Muslims and immigrant non-Europeans. I think they are running after survays conducted on immigrants. I dont understand why they want to encourage such discussions here? Is it a good practice of a modern society? Why are they not moderating the contents of the news they publish. See their web traffic:

http://www.thelocal.de/advertise.php

Is it the good practice of a publishing house when they have 7500,000 visitors a month?

@ mullapooo

i agree!

@internationalwatch...

You are very ignorant. Either you have nazi thinking or your comments shows your frustration...

@ Hicham1st, you first and the rest of us last ;-)

If you are who I think you are, I'll see you in the morning, oh and you can't play football to save your life :-)

Back on topic....

They don't want us to integrate, proof of this was given when I applied for German citizenship not to long ago. I went to the right Amt and said what I wanted, had all the relevant paperwork (or so I thought) and we started the process. The lady who was dealing with my case then asked for my Basic German Language qualification certificate, which I don't have. Granted we had been chatting away in German for about 10 minutes at this point, so she said I would have to go to the VHS and do that course before we could continue. I was somewhat dismayed and asked her to be so kind as to check that the rest of my documentation was in order, which it was. I then asked her about the Einbürgerungstest. This is what made me re-think and laugh at their system. She explained that the test consisted of 330 possible questions with 33 questions on each test paper, as she paused I then asked if it would be possible to take the test in the English version. Her face was a picture and she never saw the trap being sprung. Her reply was that it was in German only, Oh why does that not count as enough knowledge of the Germany language then? Does not compute, fatal error messages were being spewed out from her. Okay so now I'm going to the VHS to do the more advanced course, because they teach more grammar than the basic one. When I have finished the course I may go back with that certificate and try again, damn, probably won't work as I'll still need that course certificate that she recognizes. BTW I have now been here since 1984........

@internationalwatch......You are really ignorant and you have proved it. There is no chor bazaar now in India. In chor bazaar you can only find used things and not universities degrees. This is sufficient proof of your ignorance.

Please show me the case when an upper cast Hindu in India fined a

lower cast woman for touching his dog.

You are a joker....or you have a gene named NAZ_I_SM_000.

SevereCircle re. Englisch Rose. Nicely put!!

@india2000: Just ignore the comments of "internationalwatch". He is MF Paki muslim whose ancestors were low cast hindus who were converted forcibly into islam by mughal/aurangazem emperors.....

@India2000:

dude, just ignore him. No need to reply.

He is omitting same stuff here, what he has commented on Al-Qaida News for me.

News: Al-Qaida plot to attack Germany discovered

@internationalwatch

Why did not you told me that you were Pakistani Muslim....had you have told me earlier i would have not waste my time in replying you...leave India alone...Atleast in India our Muslims brothers can read namaaz peacefully..just see in Pakistan how you are killing each other and bombing the mosques in name of Shias, sunnis,admediyahs...Illegal Pakistanis feel ashame to call themselves Pakistanis and says that they are Indians when they have to find a girlfriend or job...You can write as much as you can against India but remember we are not the BEGGAR NATION like you who always survive by begging from USA.

internationalwatch has been reported for hate speech.

Well, I will first say that I hate no one. And as a Real Christian, I wish everyone the best. Yet I must be honest about all things. And the truth is, the majority of the world's problems are being created by people that identitfy as Muslim.

All of the terrorist on 9/11 were from Muslim countries.

The night club bombing in Bali, the commuter train attacks in London and Madrid, the hotel attack in Mumbai India, along with many other acts of terrorism were all done by Muslims.

The must disturbing situation of all, in the world today, is the nuclear ambitions of Iran. It is something that may lead to World war 111.

Most Germans are nice people. So are Americans, British, French, Dutch and other Western people. It's just that they would rather not have Arab/Muslims around, due to all of the problems.

It's a German problem and we are quite capable of taking care of it, the outsiders should finish their jobs and go back, never come back and shut the hell up!

What's a Hindu? It lays an egg! Sorry but everyone is so serious this morning,its Friday and the sun is shining.

Maybe the sun is shining somewhere, but it sure as hell isn't in Frankfurt.

@supernova

Are you German?

Do you think that no-German is living as single or with-family out of Germany/Europe/US???

Many decisions are depends on present and past facts. So such surveys (this article - facts) can be useful for GERMANY to have better laws for immigrants in future.

Many educated immigrants doesn't come to Germany just to earn more and more money and to get German passport. But in return they can give much more to the country.

It is problem of Germany (from article) which has been occured by allowing here lots of such people who are illiterate (ungebildet) and/or less educated, unskilled.

For ex.: Less educated immigrants work at Amazon in packing department after issuing work-permit for him. He doesn't need German language to earn money.(or very less) Such workers can earn around 1000 Euro per month or more which is a very good amount as one can survive with around 600-700 Euro here. Around 300 Euro is his net saving which is a big amount for him because of currency value.

When you make a survey of such immigrants working in Germany (at differnt companies, shops etc) who came here illegaly, were assyl and/or less educated but holds german passports, you will wonder what kind of laws has been made that today Germany is facing such problems because of immigrants.

Amazon is just one example.

If there were better laws, today many Germans had jobs atleast on low wages.

Every coin has two sides. So all immigrants or all muslims can not be burden here.

Give and take policy creats win-win situation for immigrants and Germany.

Stand up for Germanism. That's all I say. No-one else will. If you don't like Germans, import Africans, Moslems, Jews, Chinese, Pacific Islanders. They all long to come to Germany of course. In the end, Germans decide their destiny. Personally I would rank it close to tops in the World, now.

Dear Sir,

One gentleman has commented about Hindus. Perhaps my honorable friend is devoid of any knowledge about Sanatandharm ,popularly known as Hinduism.It should be born in mind that the Muslims are in turmoil and in restless state all over the world. Have you seen Hindus? They are peace loving people and quickly mingle with the locals where ever they go. Some of them have even converted into Christianity in UK and USA.(Boby Jindal governor of Luciana state USA) Many of my friends are in Germany and are adding to the wealth of that country. Have you found a Hindu planting a bomb in Germany?Whereas my Muslim brothers break and damage the same plate they are given to eat in(not the entire community) But by and large today the entire community is restless and is busy in damaging a well established social norms and rules.THIS ISLAM NEEDS A TEACHER FROM BUDDHISM AND JAINISM TO TEACH THEM LESSONS OF PEACE , LOVE AND AFFECTION. THEY HAVE KILLED COUNTLESS NUMBER OF PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. IT IS MY HUMBLE REQUEST TO THE FOLLOWERS OF ISLAM TO REWRITE QURAN AND REDEFINE ISLAM SO THAT THE WORLD CAN BE A BETTER PLACE TO LIVE IN..

That'll be the day. Pigs will fly first.

By the way, your CAPS LOCK is stuck.

Other than that, nice thought.

This is not such an issue. Most Germans would still say Slavs are a burden.

Well said Dinaricman, we don't need no mingling of smooth talking slaves even if they change their religions. Besides a person who can leave his country for money and betrays his religion is not a trustworthy human. In fact changing sweet people are more dangerous than the straight forward folks: straight forward folks at least reveal their true thoughts but smooth talking buggers are back biters like a freaken cobra....

@lalu sharm: I have done my research and came to the conclusion that Muslims did bring civilization in India and abolished inhuman tradition and rituals started off by harmonious Hindus. Nobody with his right mind likes this kinda harmony where you buggers burn children alive because of their gender man.

A million $ question to you: Who build the world wonder Taj Mahal that is main source of tourism economy of your homeland?

Pay respect to that man, talk about him and his religion with respect because he was your Muslim King!

Well, I'm both American and German. I'm truly grateful to be, becasue I could have been born some unluckly person, in a horrible refruge camp, wondering when I'll eat next.

I'm inique because I care about Deutschland the most. And as a REAL FOLLOWER OF JESUS, I wish the best very for all people.

And although I see Christianity as being the unltimate religion, yet I subscribe to the non-emotionalism of Buddhaism. It is the force that binds man to perfection.

I'm now absolutely sure, beyond even a shred of doubt, that ALL of humanity's problems can be solved through non-emotionalism. Anger, fear, bitterness and hate, depression, a lack of identity and therefore violence, could all become things of the past.

Perhaps there is hope for humans. They just have to look beyond their own world and imagine having God-like intelligence.

I don't think Germany needs other ethnic peoples to "become dumber on average". They can well manage that themselves with their own population of DDD's. Dumb Dick und Deutsch.

Don't forget Logic Guy in that calculus of dumb.

First of all, when did Religion "mud tossing" become an immigration soap box.

The issue is not religion, but mentality. Go to India, as a White foreigner, and see how you are treated (basically as a sucker with a Euro sign on your head)

As for history, let's face it, all the major monuments in India that Foreigners are charged TWICE as much as locals to visit, are not Hindu, but PERSIAN.

So shall we talk about fairness? Then it should be a two way street. Why come into the Western countries demanding We change our ways. When we go to your countries, we are expected to "respect and abide" by your cultural modes. Is it politically in-correct to demand the same courtesy? I don't think so.

We have, equally, spent hundreds of years builiding our societies and cultures, in our countries, respect and abide by them when you come our way. Our generations of work was not expected to support the entire world for free.

Welcome to our countries, now, get to work, just like the rest of us. And, as for religion, keep it private or, keep it at home.

Immigration rights SHOULD be a two way street......

@supernova, let me answer your million $ question..

check these articles...

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/was_the_taj_mahal_a_vedic_temple.htm

http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/tejo.html

Islam is going to exist in India.

But saying Islam brought culture to India is like saying Engineering skills was brought to Germany by Turks.

To all those patriotic Pakistanis. I do respect your love for your country & religion. But calling showering hate speech on others is why the world hates you. Grow up guys.

paperclipsK, has really summed it up.

Just try getting permission to stay in India. Oh yes, you can get a 6month tourist visa but at the end of it you MUST leave or be fined. No way to get it renewed (verlaengert). As a foreigner you're not allowed to buy property, you can hold a lease but again, as a foreigner, only for 5 years. No current account at a bank, can't register a motorbike or car, get ripped off just about everywhere you go unless you get nasty. Cops will take bribes as a normal day to day duty if you happen to fall foul of a traffic law, the list is endless. Do any of these things to foreigners here and the law comes down on you like ton of bricks.

So, if I understand correctly, the common thread here calls for some people who call germany home to be treated differently to other people calling germany home based on heritage. Whereas, one of the developments here as opposed to other places is that democracy rules rather than privilege of birth. So we should adopt the non-democratic position of other nations to retain the privilege of those that can trace their history back.

We must throw away all our sensible progress like democracy to avoid losing something nobody can quite define - sounds dubious to me. Particularly as the heritage that we are supposed to be protecting is actually a complete mishmash of other cultures that have gone before

Germans and Arabs are common in one point. A large number of both are anti-Semite. Integration can happen on this basis, but is it good? I don't think so.

@Supernova - please read my reply

(especially about Sankrit language - thanking you in advance)

1 -

which websites did you use for your research?

let me guess, Islamic or wiki or BBC?

Don't you know about Yoga, Meditation, Vedic Mathematics, Sanskrit?

There are countless yoda-meditation classes around the world.

NASA, the most advanced research center in the world for cutting edge technology, has discovered that Sanskrit, the world's oldest spiritual language, is the only unambiguous spoken language on the planet.

Sanskrit is the most ancient member of the European family of languages. It is an elder sister of Latin and Greek from which most of the modern European languages have been derived. The oldest preserved form of Sanskrit is referred to as Vedic.

Until 1100 A.D., Sanskrit was without interruption the official language of the whole of India. The dominance of Sanskrit is indicated by a wealth of literature of widely diverse genres including religious and philosophical; fiction (short story, fable, novels, and plays); scientific literature including linguistics, mathematics, astronomy, and medicine; as well as law and politics.

With the Muslim invasions from 1100 A.D. onwards, Sanskrit gradually became displaced by common languages patronized by the Muslim kings as a tactic to suppress Indian cultural and religious tradition and supplant it with their own beliefs. But they could not eliminate the literary and spiritual-ritual use of Sanskrit.

google: sankrit computer

Many to name which is present in India since thousands of years when muslims were not in existance anywhere.

When you talk muslims brought civilisation in India, then you MUST not be aware about present financial situation of Pakistan, growth curve and developments there.

Population of hindus is continously decreasing there. Reason behind it can be scary than imagination. But muslims population is continuously increasing in each country whereever they have spreaded.

2-

India is a developing country so there are still many negative aspects where we should do improvements.

Despite many loop holes we have organised Commonwealth Games in India which is going to start from tommorrow. We hope that the competition bring succes to our nation and it happens peacefully.

"Britain's Prince Charles and wife Camilla Parker Bowles, the Duchess of Cornwell, arrived in New Delhi on Saturday on a three-day visit to India during which they will attend the Opening Ceremony of the Commonwealth Games

In addition, Charles spend time with athletes from a broad cross-section of Commonwealth countries.

This is the biggest Commonwealth Games ever, featuring around 7000 athletes and officials from 71 countries, who are currently based at the swanky Games Village on the banks of the river Yamuna."

As I said earlier, every coin has two sides.

So, it's upto you which side to notice and make your mind about India.

are there no muslims in Africa?

the comment should have been made on ``middle east`` and not MUSLIMS generally.

The people using Islam to cover up for terrorism are only doing that for their pockets. I wonder why Saudi Arabia is not involved

@mehta_p...

good one mehta ji.

@supernova..

"Dhua dhua ho raha hai sama kahi tho hai aag lagi"

@mehta, sharam ani chaye lal yado, gandi ghandi, venkyfrai: U dumb fks make yourselves look like clowns by not talking straight to the point. Re-read what I wrote, I said Muslims civilized Hindus not that they brought a new culture to you, of course you had a culture and a language, even apes have one. Now what Muslims brought is they abolished your nonsense rituals of BURYING DAUGHTERS ALIVE, BURNING YOUR WIVES ALIVE WITH THEIR HUSBANDS' DEAD BODIES, which still happens and that's what the articles posted reveals written by "Rajeshree Sisodia" a HINDU reporter (hopefully he's not dead by now) and not by any non Muslim...

http://greatreporter.com/mambo/content/view/372/8/

I know you are ripping foreigners off by offering Ayurveda and meditative crap even by using your women for giving birth for barren parents with money but this is NOT the point here. The argument focuses on ignorant inhuman practices, as mentioned above, regulated by Hindus in India including suppression of minorities in states like Jammu & Kashmir etc....

hate speech is new speak

A lot of peace and love going on here. They don't call it the third world for nothing.

@Supernova,

seems you too paki like your other barking fellows.

there were many kashmiri pandits, kashmiri Brahmins in Jammu and Kashmir. Such pandits and brahmins were never minor and are not minor. As, many terrorists killed such kashmiris that could make many pakis (muslims) to capture pakistan. that's why there is POK (pakistan occupied kashmir) now. Pakis are illegaly and forcefully entering in India.

If you can bring civilisation and know well about making life better with excellent thoughts, then why do you keep begging in front of USA? Why can not you develop after receiving hell of financial help? Who are talibanis? Where are the originally from?

Our problem is we keep tolerating you for sake of having peace between neighbouring countries. Whenever we have taken any step to create peace, pakis backstabbed us.

The problems you and your countrymen are mentioning about India doesn't create violence around the world. What terrorists are doing in name of Islam or Allah is dangerous to every nations where muslims have migrated.

If you muslims are so civilised people then,

- why there is flow from people from Pakistan to India and not otherway around? (for ex. participation in reality shows, singers etc)

- why hindu population is decreasing in pakistan?

- Why many Pakis are having 'Indian Restaurants', 'Indians Shops' all around the world?

You use name of India to earn money for yourself and your family and at the end of the day you keep abusing India.

Germans are very developed, having many patents on their name, having latest technologies, still keep improving which is possible because of their education, efforts and willing to contribute to their nation.

Muslims give first preference to religion and then to country. So when there will be days when muslims will give in return something good to the countries where they are surviving?

Will German-muslims be like Germans to come up with innovation, better technologies here in Germany?

It seems evident from these comments that self-loathing and over-tolerance is a symptom of a decadent, decaying Western culture from Europe to Britain to N. America.

Time for others, particularly middle-eastern immigrants to live up to the West's standards and level of tolerance. The onus is quite obviously not on the West to prove that they have contributed largely to society as a whole, nor that they are tolerant of other cultures and beliefs. Last I heard, Germany itself had the most liberal immigration policy in the world.

Now is the time for an Islamic Reformation. Muslims everywhere. Take a look in the mirror. Now remove the beam from your eyes before continuing to point out the splinters in the eyes of Westerners. I'm sure you understand.

Westerners, stand up for yourselves and be united. Your cowardice makes me almost as sick as the double standards of the middle east.

@golew

have a look on youtube for: Muslim Demographics

video: 7:31 min