February 10, 2012
Published: 6 Sep 10 12:06 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20100906-29635.html
As the integration debate stoked by Bundesbank board member Thilo Sarrazin continues to smoulder, conservatives have begun calling for heavier sanctions against immigrants they deem unwilling or unable to become part of German society.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
After exporting power to France earlier this week, Germany has switched on reserve energy plants amid surging demand for electricity due to the ongoing deep freeze hitting Europe. READ (6 COMMENTS) »
A Munich court on Thursday awarded an artist €2,000 in damages because a gallery lost two 22-year-old chips that were the basis of an artwork in which the fries lay across each other in a cross. READ (2 COMMENTS) »
Germany’s most famous cyclist Jan Ullrich was found guilty of doping and stripped of his third place in the 2005 Tour de France by the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) on Thursday. READ (6 COMMENTS) »
German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said on Thursday Germany was expelling four diplomats from the Syrian embassy in Berlin after the arrest of two men suspected of spying on regime opponents. READ (1 COMMENT) »
Diane Kruger stars as Marie Antoinette in "Farewell My Queen," a lush costume drama set on the eve of the French Revolution that will open the 62nd Berlin film festival on Thursday. READ (1 COMMENT) »
An eight-person family that avoided paying rent for years by moving house every two to three weeks has finally been caught in the northern German town of Schneverdingen. READ (7 COMMENTS) »
This Week's Highlights: The star-studded Berlinale film festival kicks off in Berlin, Munch goes on view in Frankfurt, and a ukelele orchestra sets up in Munich. READ »
German police this week rescued 92 puppies from a van, after the dogs had spent 13 hours being transported across Europe without food or water. READ (5 COMMENTS) »
See all ads | Join the Marketplace
1328 jobs available
874 new jobs this week
222 new jobs today
Dating
Looking for your own blonde bombshell? Or is the strong, silent type more your
style? Find a German sweetheart here.
Weather
"After clouds comes clear weather," say the Germans. But what about after that? Find out in The Local's weather
section.
Blog
German stuff that's distracting us today.
Noticeboard
Whether you want to buy, sell, hire, announce or promote something, here's the place to do it - completely free of
charge.
Discuss
Debate the news, ask for advice, make friends - or just let off steam.
Register now for:
> Free use of noticeboard
> Special discounts
> Weekly news roundup
> Unlimited use of discuss
Your comments about this article:
Oh, hang on a minute... now I see it clearly... it's... it's THEIR problem because they're unwelcome here.
Rita Süssmuth's on the right track. More luck to her!
Now I've got a criminal record for resisting orders. I never checked with the police, but I would guess. (The order was to get into military uniform, so no one was endangered or anything) One would think Germany has learned from its past - you couldn't make a bigger mistake. There is this straight line of militarism and racism embedded right beneath the surface of the high society of civil servants. Such is Sarrazin is only a fraction of its subconscious surfacing.
I am an immigrant, I came to this country and my intention was to integrate while keeping my identity intact. I went to an integration course as a first step in this process. I was in a small classroom with other immigrants, and let me tell you, most of the muslims there had no intention of integrating... I was there, I saw it first hand. In my bad german I spoke to them during breaks, and as far as I could tell and hear, they were milking the country, and would do so until they could. With what they get from the state, they could live quite comfortably. Some had very good clothes on, (not cheap) and yet they had not worked for years in some cases... I wondered how that was possible.
There has to be a limit to how much and for how long taxpayers and the state should support immigrants, or it will be harder for others to come and have a chance at a life here.
I am now a contributing member of this society, I pay taxes and have a good job in my field. It was hard, and I am still learning, but I am happy and productive. I assure you if I were to come back to visit this intergation school today, I would find them all there, doing the same thing, smoking "imported" cigarretes, drinking between breaks and mocking the teacher with no interest in learning. You tell me... is that fair?
dacarch, yes there are bad apples but there are some real good ones too. You will find the good ones silently making major contribution in every German organization and research institutes. It requires tact to handle multi-culture environment. Enforcement simply doesnt work. Rather they will have to win hearts and minds.
I mean WHAT? Other European countries have no problems with this topic? Give me a brake!
Belgium is going crazy! There are hole areas in this country where you will get HUNTED DOWN if your not muslim and there are parts where no policeman will go.
Even in so ueber tollerand countries like Switzerland we just saw what they all think about this muslimworld (minarets poll).
Seriously. I hope this is not the way the Local community is heading but this only show that the smart members are still at work...
You cant let muslims in and deny them a place of worship.
Forget muslims. There are lot of other educated immigrants. Try making a list of immigrants in top positions in German companies or GEZ funded TV network?? You cant get bright mind and kill their aspirations. Why would anyone integrate in this environment?? I'm a immigrant making all the bloody contributions and I'm really pissed with this open version of racism. It sucks. I certainly donot want to be part of this society & I'm certainly leaving once my contract gets over.
Here's an example that allows diversity within the law and in so doing allows for diverse outcomes within a single system of law.
Hoot!
Aboriginal Circle Sentencing in Australia
http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/law/circle-sentencing.html
I have been in the same shoes as dacarch, and he is correct. There are many people here that just want to milk the system. But the problem is, there are also many Germans who just want to milk the system, the nation only chooses to focus on the immigrants.
I, personally, am disgusted when I see these idiots (Germans or non-Germans) doing the bare minimum in order to keep their social benefits, which in turn just means more taxes on the working population. I am not German, but after living here for a few years, and having a half German son, I consider myself part of the German society, and I want a better future for my son as well as the Nation.
Address the relaxed well fare laws, reform immigration, while at the same time implementing strict Equal Employment Opportunities regulations, and end of the story. The more the German Government tries addressing this as an immigrant problem, the more "racist" they seem. This is a problem that has to be tackled on all different sides.
This type of diversity leeds to a break down of Unity and Culture. I have read where some say ,If you have a German passport you are German,,I believe you are a citizen of Germany,but you need the "Family Book" to be a real German.America is a country founded by immigrants ,built by immigrants for immigrants ,Germany is a country of Germans built by Germans for Germans ,not the same nor will it ever be.
One melting pot in the world is enough ,and as previously stated a" melting away to hell", You can open the doors to the world ,but you need to be prepared for the consequences..,
I believe Germany needs immigrants ,but skilled immigrants that will become employed immediately not those that draw off the social system that is already under pressure...
The idea of a point system similar to Australia would be the best,as it selects immigrants based on their needs to fill employment ,these persons become contributors not wards of the State.
But hey, your black, plus you just went true an uncool situation. So what am I expacting? Your emotional about this hole topic and you judge because of one thing that happend to you. This again, is BS. But its humen, so im not blaming you.
And you say it's racism because only the one with dark skin draw attention from the trainguys? well guess what, that not racisms, thats experience. read the book of this femal berlin judge who just killer herselfe. its a fact that person with "darker skin" are more criminal. you call its rasiscm, i call it acting on facts. but in the end, it is what it is: its the same in every country, but you only made that experience in germany, so in your eyes, germans are the bad guys right now.
chimpansi, im sorry to tell you, but your just plain wrong. its not a bigger problem in germany. its the opposit, in belgium and holland the situation was/is out of controle!
But hey, you seem to have your opinions and you don't mind about facts so i think we can end this discussion right here because there is no sence anyway.
still its funny to see how the view on this hole sarrazin-case changed because of one, bad written articel. I mean, THIS is exactly what everyone was talking about a couple days before here on thelocal. that things have to change, that the turks need to do something and so on. but now, look at this. priceless.
Keep in mind that the laws of Islam are good for Muslims and the laws of the free world are good for Muslims..... Exactly how could they loose....? The free world needs to have a dialog itself against it's own country goals on this difference and determine how to deal with this imbalance... A Muslim cannot change to free world standards without dropping Islam... period... At some point this will be enough of a problem for the average citizen that new immigration standards will be drawn ... no to require religious isolation but to define Muslim conduct in a non-Muslim country... It will either be acceptable or stay home... Our clerics are not judges.
Keep in mind that the differences between Islam and most all other religions are dramatic.. Islam has no tolerance for any other religion and accepts the binding judgement of it's clerics to declare life threatening activities against citizens (stone to death, jihad, etc)... Islam is not just a religion it is a culture and a way of life.. Understanding it will help Germany/the world better in dealing with it's negative influnce.
@Eastard : In Islam the clerics are definitely not judges. There are always courts in the Muslim countries that decide the matter. When a cleric says something it is his own opinion. It is not necessary for the Government or people to follow it.
Regarding all the discussion , i think it is better that Germany should improve its laws and it should be for all. The biggest mistake Germany made is that they did not put proper control on their immigration policy. They invited the totally uneducated labour class from Turkey. How can you expect them to be doctors , Engineers or scientists??? Even after that there was no serious effort to integrate them. Now all Muslims are being labelled as ignorant , uneducated etc etc.
I think there should be serious efforts to integrate them. No body should allow to milk the system. It is also painful for me when almost half of my salary goes to the government every month and I see people getting money without doing work. But to label all the immigrants like this is also unjust.
I wonder how some of the anti-Muslim contributors to this discussion can focus their attention long enough to type more than three words but some of them clearly try real hard.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,714534,00.html
Number of Turks leaving germany is growing every year. So the hate towards the immigrants is driving the "educated class" of immigrants out of the country.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/bild-714534-125449.html
A friend of mine who was PHD ( and a Muslim) and was teaching in a German university just left couple of weeks ago for good to teach in a Saudi Arabian university :) Funny na :)
Before pontificating on this or any other subject, it might be advisable to take a remedial third-grade spelling course. One cannot expect to be taken seriously on any topic when one demonstrates one's illiteracy.
Regarding recent comments, I don't know what is worse: not knowing how to spell or being as unfortunate as one who cannot afford to buy a keyboard that doesn?'t have a broken CAPS LOCK key.
The lunatics are out this week...
Like you wisely said, Germans have some kind of gift to "kick out" the educated class of immigrants and to leave the ones that will eventually depend on H4. Integration is a a complex matter here, cause I bet not many germans would be happy to have an auslander as their boss or superior for that matter. I believe there is a problem with many who integrate, BUT also with those educated and integrate who are put down because they are "different" and shouldn't have good jobs.
"The highest position I saw a Turk was in a donner shop in top of a building." (just kidding, joke, no stress!)
I'm not a Turk or pro turk immigration but I do understand both sides. The ones who stubbornly don't want to learn the language and wanna live from good ol H4 and the ones who want to but are not given a fair chance to prove themselves. Hard live...
At least Sarrazins managed to make people speak out what goes in their hearts, end of hipocrisy and political correctness. His bank account must be going up like a thermometer in a sunny day in the desert! ^^
I can imagine his face to face smile, and then having his good beer and kebab from his favorite donner shop! LOL!
If you think the commentary here about immigrants who refuse to assimilate is harsh, you should hear what she has to say about them. It's worse, I assure you. I doubt, as she is a Muslim, that she criticizes them out of Islamophobia.