Steinmeier warns of social unrest with Merkel

The fact that a major party candidate and current office holder is blatantly trying to employ Mafia/Al Qaida protection racket tactics on the eve of an important election is so pathetic as to beggar belief. Shameless. Can't he be arrested for inciting a riot or something?

That said, since the german government already controls the media, and has essentially disarmed an already authority-fearing populace not known for sticking their necks out and speaking up for themselves in the first place, what exactly would german "social unrest" look like?

If the recent past is any guide, it would probably involve walking around carrying signs painted on bedsheets and blowing whistles. Big whoop.

You are talking about Schäuble right?

Schäuble did manage to inspire at least one german to have the (ahem) spine to shoot him and put him in a wheelchair for life.

Jetzt kann er unsere Rechte wortwörtlich überrollen!

its an election for heavensake! And most people realise there is a grain of truth in Steinmeier's exaggeration surely?

I'm not referring to the Al Qaeda threat, but if the FDP are in the coalition and it leads to Thatcherite Labour reforms then I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of industrial unrest or even riots. Its what happened in Britain back in the 80s after all.

Is it unambiguously better to keep laws in place that either 1) make goldbrickers and deadwood virtually unfirable and/or 2) keep moribund and redundant jobs if not entire industries on confiscatory-taxation-subsidized life support just because it's politically expedient?

In the anglosphere, there are an awful lot of children and grandchildren of fired auto workers and coal miners who realized that inheriting a low-skilled blue-collar make-work job wasn't a birthright and are now at law firms, advertising agencies and the Googles of this world.

Life's tough ... and there are a billion chinese and 600 million indians, phenomenal numbers of whom are in university and/or learning English just biding time before they eat the lunches of the coddled in the western world.

Change is not necessary because survival is not mandatory.

Neo-liberal politics are SO last season sweetie.

They have lost the moral as well as the practical argument.

We'll see if they lose th argument at the ballot box tomorrow.

Well, communism had 90 years to prove it worked, too. Fail.

At work this week, I was introduced to a chinese intern who, after graduating from university in China, received a masters degree from a grand ecole in France and another one at Oxford; she was asking if she could spend time after regular work hours helping out on special projects. She speaks four languages fluently. Moments later, I had one of my German employees walk in with a doctor's note and preannounce that he'd be out sick for the next two weeks due to "work-related stress", threatening to take his case to the Betriebsrat. "Social market economy" fail.

Depends what you call "communism" but whatever.

the SPD aren't "communist" and it is a moot point whether Communism actually failed anyway. There are several extant communist nations still going and some people are of the opinion it is waiting in the sidelines for Marx' predictions about world capitalism to come true.

you do realise that China is still a communist nation don't you? And one person milking the system in Germany is vey far from being proof that the social market doesn't work. At least in Germany, if you suffer from extreme work related stress that means you lose your job , you don't then lose your insurance, your house and any chance of working again like you do in some countries I might care to mention.

and frankly, having a freemarket liberal chanting 'FAIL' about socialism (as if capitalism was all roses) after events of the last 18 months is a bit rich!

This is why I give up on political discourse.... it all blanket left vs right. If China is communist then give me the US any day. For one, health care is all private and as far as I know there is no or little unemployment benefit, hence one of the reasons why China saving rate is so high in case of an emergency. Given the left/right continum that makes China to the right of the USA on those policies.....

In the USA, the poor and elderly are covered by Medicaid and Medicare. Bloody socialist bstard those Americans...

Chinese "communism" has become an altar at which people worhip for about one minute per day before they get down to being some of the most rapacious capitalists on the planet ... sort of the way we vestigal christians know all the hymns and enjoy the pagentry of religion at christmas time, but live our lives any way we please because the societies we choose to live in are generally liberal enough to accept them.

I'm not a "neo-conservative" by any stretch. Government has its place, and the recent financial crisis underscores how a completely "anything goes" approach doesn't work either.

However, the empty "santa claus" promises proffered by the left in Germany (one die Linke poster says "Reichtum fuer Alle" and 10 feet later another one says "Reichtum Steuren") belie an inherent naïveté about the way the real world works. The fact that so many people in East Germany, which was the shining star of how communism was supposed to work because it was the only one "western enough" to realize the aims of Marx/Engels, jumped the fence because they were tired of 24-hour surveillance, 10-year waiting lists to get their farty little Wartburg, and special priveleges for those who elbowed their way to the trough should have everyone biting their tounges. Instead, a growing chunk of the German population seems to think it'd be better back in jail because life was "predictable". Stockholm Syndrome writ large.

No pain, no gain.

never claimed you were a neocon, you are a classic liberal or neoliberal (in the UK sense) as far as I can see.

I'd be interested what makes you think that the media here is government controlled? I don't think this is the case at all so...

THERE WILL BE NO SOCIAL UNREST IN GERMANY! Although some people her might hope for it, the utmost that will happen is some autonomous hooligans lightning cars in Berlin. If the FDP wins it is because the voter voted for them and everybody will accept that. Who would be going to protest and make social unrest if taxes are lowered anyway? The unemployed? They are too fat and too lazy too be active anyway. And under the FDPs proposals many of them will be significantly better off because of the Bürgergeld that the FDP wants to introduce. It really only leaves idealogues and hooligans and they don't have the breadths to make social unrests... It is ridiculous. Only scaring foreigners who love to smithe themselves with 1930 2009 comparisons... Out of order that man.

I also want to combat the idea that has been stated here, that the FDP is a neobliberal party in both directions:

1. We are a German liberal party not American libertarians

=> We strongly support soziale marktwirtschaft and would never advocate a system like Americas, because we believe it is fundamentally flawed and doesn't fit with our culture and our values. What we demand is a return to the principles of soziale marktwirtschaft which allows for government intervention, but has strict and clear rules for its boundaries. That means in the current state that cuts will have to be made for more flexibility, but the suggestion that we want to revert to some perverted neoliberalism is only electioneering by people who can't convince with arguments.

2. We will not dismantle the social security system to a point where it leads to social unrest...

As mentioned above the Bürgergeld will be suficient for everybody to live a very worthy live in this society.... It will be even more generous under special circumstances. We will also introduce a higher Schonvermögen, so that people who become unemployed at a higher age don't have to give up all their property. Our system will be touhger however with poeple who refuse to get into work. People who want to get into work on the other hand will be significantly better off. The measures the Agentur für Arbeit wich will be split up into local units can take in terms of monetarily supproting people who try to reenter the job market on low paid jobs will be widened. Our proposed reform of the system of taxation will help everybody not least people who want to start small businesses like restaurants on their own and don't want to splash all their money on tax advisers. It will also help low-income poeple who are almost uniquely in the world taxed in Germany. Families will not have to pay taxes till they earn more than 40000 euros a year. Kalte progression will be abolished. Also our lowering of the top rate of income tax wil far from benefiting the rich help to relieven your average worker. People on this board behave as if the top rate of income tax is onyl paid by profiteering bankers. In fact it starts with a yearly brutto of 52000 euros. An amount a Facharbeiter with some experience can easily earn in Baden-Würrtemberg. A lowering of this tax rate will profit everybody who in Germany is considered middle class. What we will do however is therough an easily observable system close all the complicated tax loopholes that can currently be used by the super rich only. Who thinks anybody who earns certain amounts that areconsidered undecent by the left can be tricked into paying 50 percent tax fools himselfs. Infact it is only the midle class who just make above the highest income bracket who pay these excessive taxes. Our system will lur rich people to pay their taxes in Germany and help those who can't flee.

you do realise that Die Linke have almost no chance of forming part of an government coalition this time round. Their objective in this election is therefore to maximise their vote using anything they can so that they are taken seriously next time round. Therefore they can promise everyone 'jam for tea' knowing they will never have to stump up.

That is not the case for CDU/CSU, SPD, Grüne or FDP.

actually, that's not the case at all. If the FDP enter the governing coalition it will only be because Merkel has managed to boost the CDU vote enough to ditch the SPD. If that happens the FDP would be in government even if they lost votes this time round.

Bah, Germany is a neo-feudalistic society and will remain so.

@Matarja,

Good post, that backs up my case that the left vs right stuff is so bollocks. The Citizen Income is a concept that also the Greens back. It will help to get the government of peoples back and give them the freedom to move between jobs or to go back to study without having to jump thru the hoops of "client-state" so loved of statist lefties.

I will be at the Conservative Party conference next week in the UK, sad thing to say there are no radical ideas or thinking going on the Tory Party as they are too scared (too centarist ala politics of managerialism)... A negative income tax or Citizens income could also help to stop the benefit trap that has become progressively steep in the UK after 12 years of Labour. Sadly we do not have a FDP in the UK.

Stanford...one for more blue skies thinking in politics.

PS. Side point I read a post crowing that left of centre are winning across the world in the Guardian. The poster mentioned Obama which made me laugh as left of centre in the USA is centre right in Europe... But such nusances are lost on many!!!

Matajari, that FDP platform sounds just fine to me; if I could vote, I'd vote for the FDP. I voted Democratic in the US election because I thought the Republicans had veered into loony-bin territory, and think Obama's emerged as the pragmatist we all hoped he'd be.

The GEZ is the second-most regressive tax after VAT in Germany, and the proceeds are used to fund the dominant government-run channels which clearly modulate their message at the pleasure of the politicians. I find Fox news in the US insipid, dangerous, anti-intellectual and hate it with the very fiber of my being. But, I'm glad it's allowed to exist. No equivalent here ... all the private stuff is just trash TV, with the only newsfeeds eminating from ARD and Deutsche Welle.

P.S. I re-read Matajari's post and liked it even more the second time around.Had it included massively regressive VAT and 86c/liter gasoline tax and Kirchensteuer and unfair treatment of single taxpayers and deductibility of mortgage interest on second homes but not primary residences, and jacking up everybody's electric bills to support an uneconomic solar industry subsidy, this would have summed up everything I believe is unfair about the German tax system in one quote! Someone has to shout this from the mountaintops! Germany is a great place to be a poor person, a second-rate but nonetheless manageable place for a rich person, but an absolute regressively-taxed nightmare for the middle class.

The tragic irony here is, in light of the protectionism going on with Opel, etc., tax simplification has become an employment issue because the current byzantine system employs so many people at the Finanzamt (and an order of magnitude more Steuerberater) that there's clearly a large voting block with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo regardless of their political proclivities.

er wasn't that exactly what was tried and failed on a limited scale in Speenhamland?

More Fear.

Liberalism = Reality Deficit Syndrome.

Just to correct what BtC said, the party Die Linke does not want (in the next legislative period) to be pat of a government at federal level.

Their professed aim is to continue is to remain the opposition.

Indeed one of their slogans is: Hier spricht die Opposition".

The fact that few seem courageous enough to point out that party grandee LaFountaine dresses in suits with watch chain and vest like a low-rent victorian-era banker wannabe and, despite a civil servant career, has villas scattered around the world, is a source of great bemusement to me.

I have my critiques of the Kinke, believe me.

Only party not funded by big business mind.

Note sure what constitutes failure (giving people money a failure!!!)..or is that your interpretation....

Sorry but there is nothing really that radical about a citizen income...as we already have the concept of universal benefits...the difference is we give them to the young i.e. kids and old people (state pensions). No such a leap of technology to give them to all citizens. It would mean on the plus:

1. Less civil servants to sit there go thru people lives to see if they are elligible.

2. Less mistakes and claw backs of money to the poorest members of society.

3. It will means work would pay straight away no-claw back penality of benefits as income increases.

4. Means women (or men) who stay at home to look after their kids would benefit

5. Means the government would be able to level more green taxes as part of a new deal...

6. There would be less of a penality for married couples staying together as each citizen (inc. kids) would get a fair share.

7. Flexibile careers would be easier as people could afford to retrain easier.

The big downside it would cost money...but we now know that it all about political will. Get rid of tax exemptions (income and corporate), roll all benefits into one and eh presto it can be done.

The 80s labour party use to be in favour of univesal benefits...the 80s Conservative wrongly won the argument for target benefits (mean tested) which has just meant bigger and more meddling government and less covered for the poorer. Sadly Nulabour has taken this to the extreme with about 27 or so benefits now in existance.

What politicians say in public and what they want to do are two totally different things.

Look at the leaks of government doccuments over the last few weeks.

If Schwesterwelle squeaks into the government tomorrow, be aware that the glitter you see is not her faboulous bling, but the knife that will be taken to the living standards of ordinary men and women in Germany, including a large number, if not the majority, of Toytowners.

[quote name='MonksTown' date='26.Sep.2009, 12:26pm' timestamp='1253964366' post='1777152']Just to correct what BtC said, the party Die Linke does not want (in the next legislative period) to be pat of a government at federal level.

er suggest you look up Speenhamland

citizens "wages" that rely on top ups or reverse income tax run the very great risk that they will end up encouraging indolence - why bother working if you can earn just as much not working?

Jesus BtC, the main frikkin issue now is the danger of the FDP getting into government tomorrow, not your grudge against anyone who "fails" to stick with the official social democratic parties!

But the US Earned Income Credit appears to be exactly the same thing ... and clearly no one feels that being a layabout is a viable alternative to being a productive citizen.

eh? I have no grudge about that at all TBH. I just think there is a big difference between the legislative proposals laid out by parties with a prospect of being in government and parties with no prospect or no intention of being in government. And for that reason it is pretty pointless criticising Die Linke's policy platform as unrealistic. If anything I was defending them.

actually it is not the same really. A citzens wage means that the bottom 10% (or higher) of the population has tax and reverse taxation set to ensure they all receive exactly the same income whether they work or not.

What's unrealistic about a withdrawl from Afghanistan?

What's unrealistics about a minimum wage?

What's unrealistic about increasing the level of Hartz IV?

The Linkspartei doesn't have to be in government per se to push on such issues.

The impression I get is that the SPD would rather there was no socially progressive legislation than to find themselves voting the same way as Die Linke.

Thanks for the clarification.

While I personally dislike the concept of someone being "entitled" to anything just by accident of birth (in the western world versus squatting in a ditch somewhere else), assuming the definition of the bottom end isn't too outrageously high, I don't see why this concept couldn't be workable.

After all, not everyone gets to grow up to be an astronaut when they grow up.

P.S. Personally, I think we should all give up on Afghanistan as well ... get on with the inevitable steam-cleaning of northwestern Pakistan instead.

individually each of Die Linke's policies are highly attractive and in the best ossible world they would all be achievable. However, taken together in the current economic climate they are either uncosted or irresponsible and I rather doubt that the programe would look the same if they expected to be the lead participant in a colition.

I would not be prepared to put money on that (not even a falling GBP). The SPD will be wildly looking around for possible partners next week....

Actually I liked the suggestion made by one of the Redner at one of the Fasching Sitzungen this year where it was suggested to let Lafontaine, Gysi & Bisky take over Saarland - and then hand Saarland back to France......

BTC,

You are exactly right - there is a risk people might not want to work but sorry that is what we have in the UK with the benefit system for life. The devil is in the detail about what level it is set at etc. In the end, the idea is that it will mean less state.....

I can take you to many council states where people use benefits as a citizen income.. the problem is there is dis-incentive for them to work..(above 70% marginal tax rates). Those hard working but yet poor working class are penalised the most in the current system or the middle class who find themselves unemployed for a short time.... There are 3.5 million people deemed, I think, unable to work because of ill health (more to get exta benefits and less hasle fom the state)... the system encourages people to say why they cannot work... 6 million (2.5m unemployed and 3.5 written off sick or disabled) inactive people is bull. 10% of the population - no doubt around 20% of the working population is a joke when you think about it... but eh it keeps the system ticking over I guess..

A citizens income and a flat rate of tax is the way to go.... if people want to sit around doing fcuk all I will take that chance maybe they will become musicians and artist and we will have a creative boom!!!

Nothing most probs but the ego of politicians. The scramble to be seen photographed with Obama when he got elected says it all about politicians - vai…[/quote]Nothing stopping German doing it. That is why I say the left vs right paradigm just does not fit. Here is German lauding itself for a social market when it does not have a minimum wage. Even capitalist UK and USA has one. We can have a debate about how high it should be but it is obvious the right thing to do.Again, for 40 years German could afford high unemployment benefit but then came along Schroder! That is why I do not trust politicians nor the state. What about a 55 year German unemployed who has paid their unemployment insurance for 40 years on the basis of a particular amount and then comes along the robber Politicians to bring in Hartz IV....

The Question is how to ensure that any extension of benefit is affordable and that means ensuring the arbeitloskeit insurance is high enough. The higher level of income inequality in the UK is due to the low level of benefits. See this weeks economics for a graph of where the UK lies. The state is best placed to offer proper and well fund unemployment insurance - Germany should not go done the UK nor US model.

The line trotted out that the proposals of the left are not worth considering is a self fulfilling prophecy.

We are in a PR system with 5 parties, no two of which are capable it seems of getting more than 50% of the vote, something has got to give.

Even in BAVARIA, die Linke got nearly 5% of the popular vote in the state electons and thus only just missed seats in the legislature.

The fact that what would have ben fairly middle fo the road centre centre-left proposals 20 years ago shouls just how much the official political argument has been pushed to the right.

Watching TV total and it looks like the SDP have lost a lot of support from younger voters and the linke are the most popular and the FDP have gained.

What you are seeing S is the swing away fro the "Volksparteien".

It's particuarly effecting the SPD but also applies to the CDU as well.

It's about social cultural change and how we relate to institutions.

Yes, and in the "Anglosphere" there are quite a few people unemployed and in prison as well. Remarkably enough, wasn't GM just bailed out by the US tax payer?

How many people are being employed by Google? 20,000. How many people were being employed by GM? Hundreds of thousands. These old industrial giants delivered mass prosperity to people with all sorts of qualifications. The likes of Google don't.

These cries of "the Chinese and Indians are going to eat us all" sound very similar to predictions about the Japanese in the 1980´s.

Interesting point..one that I have laughed to myself remembering the hype about Japan and a lesser extent Germany in the 70s and 80s.

The good point about old age is we have seen a lot of the bullshit before albeit it musik,fashion or political arguments.....

Sad thing is the younger guns do not want to listen...

Stanford old in mind...

Steinmeier is the lamest, most boring bag of hot air politician I've ever seen.. Just pasty, limp, and absolutely unlikeable..