Published: 21 May 12 15:36 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/opinion/20120521-42665.html
Former Bundesbank board member Thilo Sarrazin has provoked outrage by arguing that Germany's euro policy is driven by a Holocaust guilt trip. He also said the single currency was always a bad idea. Does he have a point? Have your say.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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Your comments about this article:
The Greek reporterin said that the Greek people are trying to decide whether to continue to be beat up or to jump off of the cliff, implying that responsible Europe, are the irresponsible ones!
You can reach some perverse conclusions when you let feelings overrule facts!
His book is not on the shelf yet but is already on Amazon's sales rank #you guess#??
That is why I appreciate Germany which is reflexive and has not fallen yet into the trap of right-wing populism.
Germany is quite balanced in its political discourses and media are quite fact-based if you compare it to most other countries.
I hope you study German one day and read more sophisticated newspapers than this one which most likely reflects the level of newspapers with huge pictures.
Can you really have a successful currency without closer intergration?
It is probably better to go back the 1970s when there was a 'Common Market' not a European Union. That way we can all work, trade take sort out our grievances fairly, work hard and get the benefits from it, without this Euro juggernaught which is like a train that is crashing in slow-motion.
"The early shortcomings have yet to be corrected."
"Instead of waiting until the economic requirements for a common currency were met, Kohl wanted to demonstrate that Germany, even after its reunification, remained profoundly European in its orientation."
(Source Spiegel online: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/euro-struggles-can-be-traced-to-origins-of-common-currency-a-831842.html)
My conclusion is that he is a dangerous man ; and is likely to mess it up for all the Germans.
jokerman...your point of view is as far from American as you are.
They don't feel any "Holocaust or World War II" guilt for any European country. Quite the opposite. Take the PIIGS for example. During World War II most of them were part of the Axis Powers (Italy) and/or supporters (Spain, Portugal) or neutral (Ireland). The only country that was with the Allies was Greece. It was occupied by Germany and in numerous German atrocities it suffered more than 400,000 casualties, with its economy and infrastructure lay in ruins. Yet, the Germans don't feel any guilt about that, and refuse even to discuss about the wartime reparations.
And even if we dismiss the discussion about the wartime reparations, the current narrative in Germany against Greece shows absolutely no World War II guilt whatsoever. It's actually the opposite that is happening. Currently all of the PIIGS countries have received directly (Greece, Portugal, Ireland) or indirectly (Spain, Italy) money from EU/ECB/Germany. However, only Greece is attacked in such a large extent in the German media and political/economic cycles. The Greeks (former WWII enemies) are the ones who are constantly vindicated and humiliated with stereotypes, generalizations and lies and not the rest of the PIIGS countries (former WWII allies or neutral), even though they have also received huge money from Germany.
If Sarrazin was right, and the Germans were feeling any "Holocaust or World War II" guilt this would not have been happening. Consider if instead of Greece it was Israel that had those kind of issues.
a. when i say radicalism it does not necessarily means right wings. This guy to me sounds very radical in what he is saying (and u can see the result by looking at the silly comments going on to this article)
b. I leave in Munich, and what I am hearing is that around 10 turkish people were killed by radicalist and police/politician did everthing they could to cover this
and to all the others who are making comments about who needs whom: i would like to remember Marshal plan (money given by USA to Germany), EU money used to unify East Germany to West Germany... History is easily forgotten, and this is the worry of radicalism coming back (which is what it is happening now), with perople having no clue ogf what they are talking about.
Even if the German Economist is accused of trying to manipulate a submerged sentiment of guilt shared by all Germans, what steps were taken boldly and impartially by the Allied Victors of ww2 to prove the extolled evil virtues of the defeated even as humanly possible of committing in action?
If the Germans have learnt to suffer in patience to enjoy guilt and abuse silently over more than six decades after the loss in war for the sake hard earned democracy, let them continue to do so for the sake the Eternal Truth whose fame is always anonymous and whose speech ever remains silent.
This cow has been milked for 67 years and Germans have come to accept that as a fact of life. Many atrocities were commit in WWII and other wars since but only Germany continues to pay, and pay, and pay with the people saying what can we do we have no choice. But they do. The time has come to say genug ist genug. \
Germany must move on, it cannot continue to be the cash cow for the mistakes and live style choices of others. It is nice to be a good neighbor but the neighbors must learn that there are consequences for their actions. We all were taught that as children.
The Euro was an experiment that was created by a few individuals and foisted on the German public with no vote taken. It is time to allow the German people a vote as to whether they wish to continue with the Euro or return to the Deutschmark.
Remember, when it was just the Mark, Germany was one of the top economies in the world, with excellent health care, retirement, low unemployment, etc. Today we are being manipulated by other interests.
people who comment here are usually NOT germans. so you see that Germans are not the radical ones!
"around 10 turkish people were killed by radicalist and police/politician did everthing they could to cover this" --> police and polticians made mistakes by thinking they murderers - in the course of several years - were not connected, but they did not cover it.
I am totally for supporting Greece, but your infos are out of context: the money for the marshall plan for germany was extremly little compared what germany paid already to greece... and you must admit that there have to be made some changes in greece, if investments, structural changes... otherwise nothing will change. in germany were the prospects good, in greece they are not. AND btw EU-money is given still to many poor areas in ALL european countries, if greece or austria, but especially of course the new member states in the east. The reuinfication was financed mostly by West-Germany not by the EU!
.
The European (and German) press is so abjectly liberal how could one not agree with them apart form reading other sources for concrete information. One must expect the responses from Herr Steinbrück and Schäuble and their partners. They live and breathe the Union and recognize what a catastrophic situation they are in at present.
I am not for totally behind the man but one must agree that Sarrazin has hit a nerve.
Economic ties of this scale bring about political unity. Take as a model the burgeoning of the U.S. in the18th and early 19th centuries full of disagreements about the role of federalism and centralization of law. These disagreements were met with short-term compromises and economic stability. It is non-controversial to state that the conflict of the American Civil War resulted from these unresolved disagreements. There are valid arguments against federalization for it's ever increasing imperialist ventures as well as for the economic ruin of the southern states. Others arguments tie the results of political unification with an increasing of the liberties of humans of African descent. Today in the U.S. there remain significant and complex debates about the role of federal government which could result in future catastrophic conflicts.
It seems like a cheap trick to use World War 2 to hit a nerve. Sarrazin understands this, yet with a sleight of hand employs it to alter the discussion toward his interests. Questioning whether the E.U. endeavor should continue is valid, but here he is exploiting emotionally sensitive rhetoric. His focus is on the nation-state of Germany and it's relationship to the E.U., therefore his interest are nationalist. Based on the statements above, there is no discussion whether the E.U. is good for the individual citizen of these different allied societies. Unless there is a discussion about the individual, then it seems that all of this talk about the E.U. is a debate over nation-state vs.empire.
Any club has to has common rules - all the members have to be on the same page. The Western World has to decided whether it is going to follow the USSR unto the unworkable central control that failed there, or trim budgets and spend only what they take in. IF Greece sees Germany as he problem, they really should resign from the club. That way they can "prove to us all" that they can make their own finances work by continued gov't spending. Obama is trying the same thing in the USA,
It is clear that there are problems with the Euro. Many said that from the beginning, not that it was inherently a bad idea but that some additional things needed to be considered and included. Much of what's being seen now was included in those predictions and observations. Without greater economic, and hence political, consolidation, the operating of a single currency is going to remain very difficult. Whether further consolidation is a good idea is something else entirely.
Personally, I'm beginning to see Sarrazin in a very negative light. In the US we sometimes see someone play the "race card" simply because the "victim" is Black and the "suspect" isn't. While we are not remotely free of racial bias, and many incidents are racially motivated, that doesn't mean every one of them is. That assumption remains overly simplistic.
Germany has done a reasonable job...in my opinion...of trying to deal with the fallout of the Third Reich. Very few alive today were around then, and of those who were, almost none of them were in any position of authority. Yes, there are surviving military personnel, and they were forced to fight in ways that we might not consider proper. However, that's equally true of almost every military veteran to some degree.
While we should never forget the Holocaust, nor should we accept anything remotely resembling genocide, at some point it's time to move on. Germany has made that effort. Japan still won't admit or apologize to either China or Korea. The US finally apologized to the Japanese-Americans for their treatment, and while formal apologies haven't come in some cases, I think there is a general consensus that the forced-relocation within Europe after the war was improper. The US was clearly wrong in the way it dealt with Native Americans...and the list goes on and on.
In short, Sarrazin will likely continue to play the "abused German" card as long as it makes him money. Sadly whatever truth he might actually share gets lost in the xenophobic trash he serves up with it.
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Give Europe back it's Identity- not one large group, but severall important countries with a rich heritage.
What Thilo Sarrazin said isn't far-fetched. I heard the German Finance minister 2 weeks ago on CNN, saying Germany will try to keep the Eurozone united as a reparation to what they did to Europe in the war.
Untill the secularisation 1806 mainly achieved by Napoleon, in which church property and estate at the end of the first 1000 year german empire, (beginning in 800 with the formula of the frank emperor "Karl der Große: one empire, one people, one faith), was expropriated, as well as formally seperated from the state, policy and theology were more or less one, even though there was much corruption then too.
Yet the formula which makes a nation or many nations solid constructions, culturally and econmically is not only a conscience of the secular knowledge.
In fact you cannot build a secular system without a ground work i.e. an imovable foundation, otherwise it becomes a castle in the air, and will tumble after a few years. So first is the faith then the people, then the state or the empire. What faith do the europeans have. The roman catholic believ is most likely not the strike into the centre of the target. Mayb a 7 or 8.
A 9 maybe for the protestant. A 10 for the true confession. I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints and I believe if the man by which this church is named is not followed all secular constructions are determined to fail, even more easily when church and policies are seperated, in such a way, that people do not know the origin of their secular decisions.
-Stalin: far left
-Pol Pot: far left
-Mao Zemin: far left
-Red Army Faction: far left
-North Korean leadership: far left
I'm not here to argue which side is better, rather point out your one-sided belief that all things bad = right-wing.
A little more history for you:
-Abraham Lincoln: Republican
-Passage of most civil rights legislation and policy: Republicans
-President who wanted to grant eventual amnesty to illegal immigrants: Republican (George Bush--God forbid!)
Anyone can pick and choose from history (like I just did), but the key is to present BOTH sides. Please, for the love of peace, stop spreading the "Republicans are evil" meme.
He is attempting to appeal to a nationalistic perspective. He is adding some catch-word structure to simplify his positions. This isn't done to introduce a collegial discussion. It is done to force quick decisions.
You just have to decide whether you deeply agree with his quick decisions.
You can also reach some perverse conclusions when you let cold facts overrule feelings...do I need to remind you of Germany's prime example of that being true? A lot of Germans seem to have the idea that either you are a senseless person governed by emotion or a genius governed by logic. But logic can be twisted to any conclusion, anything can be rationalized. Emotions are also often an intelligent reaction to the facts!!
Not even close to the amount to indicate a large majority of Germany agree with him. What a laughable point. And then you have to separate out those who aren't even German buying it, that agree with his extreme views. So that dilutes how predominant his view is also.
Amazing what straws people will grasp at.
Wake up, the 2WW was over in 1945,
Why do you wish to wake up the Anti Semitic Goast?
Does Germany needs it? do the Germans need that?
The past is a wound which heals slowly by the families of victims and they are millions,it is not clever to make it bleeding again...
In The Plot to Overthrow by Mohammad Goldstein he bluntly exposes the real facts about who a Jew really IS. You can get it for nothing on the net. It exposes more than Jews in a fictional story that tells the inside truth about the USG as well.
Scholars around the world cannot dispute the facts that are presented in this book and it will help this silly time Germans spend wondering about how it could have happened. The world needs knowledge and wisdom to change not guns and this will change your politics forever.
Hitler knew exactly what he is doing and planing, he managed to carry after him all the German people and big parts of population in otherEuropean countries.