February 9, 2012
Published: 15 Dec 09 17:27 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/opinion/20091215-23959.html
A botched NATO air strike responsible for the tragic deaths of scores of civilians is threatening to derail Germany’s military engagement in Afghanistan, writes The Local’s Marc Young.
Marc Young (marc.young@thelocal.de)
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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Your comments about this article:
lol..."Germany?'s willfully opaque rules of engagement"....Indeed! (The only word missing is "detrimental")
No?? Fine then, you evil man you know what MajorB? I find it totally unacceptable that you believe people should be allowed to defend themselves!
....I'm going back to my war-protest/education-policy reform rally now!!
(j/k....of course. Cheers bud!!)
If you wanna go steal someone's fuel in an active combat zone, don't bring your kids along for the ride!! (eg. you think our combat troops have a "bring your kid to work day"???)
please call customer service ("logistics") and ask why you have not been issued a throat-mike ;-) ....tell them that this is simply unacceptable.
If you approach a fuel truck clad head to toe in alliance markings, and your third cousin, twice removed, is standing next to it with a machine gun, that tells any reasonable human being that the damned thing is not on the up and up. That is your cue to turn around and go back where you came from if you are not an enemy combatant.
As for flying over and scaring people away - yeah, let'd do that. And in the process, let's scare the people that we want to be dropping ordinance on in the first place. That should work out really well, militarily..you know, seeing as how this is A WAR. I am not even going to get started on all that information that was released about which KSK groups were involved in target acquisition, etc, which is borderline treason in and of itself - revealing what friendly troops are doing, and where, is like painting a gigantic target on their backs. Thanks a lot for that, press. Operational security went out the window with that. Did nobody ever consider that maybe there were good, strategic reasons for not revealing some of the information behind the airstrike? Or that maybe we still don't know the full story, and that the attorneys don't either? It is, after all, A WAR.
Look, these morons took two planes and crashed them into civilian infrastructure killing 2,976 people, and injuring over 6,000. It was an international building, and a fair number of Germans were killed, as well - and a fair number of children. And half the muslim world cheered about it!
So, if you ask me, am I sorry that civilians were killed in the air strike? Of course I am. Would I prefer that the target hadn't been engaged, and the bad guys got away? Absolutely not. That is a valid enemy target, and the people who associated in the area knew it for what it was, and Colonel Klein made the right decision. No comfort or aid to the enemy, in the form of missile launchers or a truck full of fuel. I just hope that this absolute media-induced stupidity doesn't stop the next fatefully placed european colonel from ordering an engagement when he finds it appropriate.
Foreign troops are resisted, and rightfully so. Fighting an elusive enemy in Afghanistan, Iraq, or Pakistan is the same thing. It is just another diversion from the real problem that exists between the Palestinians and Israelis.
Germany's stance as non-aggressor is admired when convenient. Getting them involved in acts of aggression helps to spread the blame and are an easy target for criticism. When will we ever learn?
Is it then and only then that we call an Air Strike to take out the whole site. Or are there yet other considerations to take into account? Like errrr ummmm must it not be done on a Holy day? Or must we wait until a special festival has ended? And of course we must be aware of the conditions of the time scale between Sunrise and Sunset? And lastly but by no means not least, do we arrange for a Flyover across the site first to drop leafl;etc telling all persons inside the Hideout to leave the area if they do not wish to be hurt by falling debris??
Actually I've just discovered that there is something even more important and that is my morning cup of Tea.... Please do continue with what ever it is that you do here..... It always makes for a good read :-)
I still say Col. Klein did the right thing.
How do we know these people were innocent? Why is everybody so willing to believe what the Taliban says?
And why isn't anybody talking about the men in the concoy, who were butchered by the Talis? Why isn't anybody talking about what the Talis would have done with the fuel trucks?
Get this one thing into your head: this is war. It's them or us.
"How do we know these people were innocent? Why is everybody so willing to believe what the Taliban says?"
Because the Taliban NEVER lies and has an excellent human-rights track-record. And because groups like the Red Cross ALWAYS give the military the benefit of the doubt! No one ever told you this? ;-)
"why isn't anybody talking about the men in the con[v]oy"
Because we in the west demonize the people willing to fight for us, while our enemies view THEIR fighters as heroes/martyrs/etc.
You say "it's them or us"
Tell me What's "us" doing there?
You seem to have bought into Bush's idea that the Taliban had something to do with 911? They didn't
Remember when the "bad" Russians were bogged down in Afghanistan, we helped this scum against them, and now we're paying for our meddling and get our boys killed with the very weapons we supplied. Great strategists. Why do you think we are so much disliked over there? How would you feel if the situation were reversed?
Are you kidding me?? "W" may have been an idiot, but it certainly wasn't some fantasy he dreamed up on Crawford Ranch!!!
al-Qaeda sends people to fly planes into buildings ---> Afgahnistan hosts the training camps for AQ, which are authorised/endorsed/encouraged by the anti-Western/Islamist Taliban government ----> Taliban=responsible (where is the confusion here?)
you engage the little bastards with a SMAW-LP(lollipop) launcher. Fresh out of WilliWonka SkunkWorks (features multi-purpose high-taste chupachup warhead)
By "HJ", I assume you are talking about the Hitler Youth? Those boys were DECADES ahead of their time in asymmetric warfare tactics!! "Uniformed"? ...only if they were suicidal (which I grant you, some of them, in fact, were).
But, in the Battle for Berlin (1945) for example, most of those kids knew damn well that abiding by the Geneva Convention (in terms of uniform) was tantamount to a death sentence....
Let's shake on it, okay?
Have a great holiday
I "seem like a really nice guy"?? Ouch, that hurts buddy! Especially since I've been trying so very hard to cultivate more of a "rude prick" image around here!! (I must not be trying hard enough) ;-) Best wishes right back at ya!
Concerning pacifism, I would say, "Show me a pacifist and I'll show you a man who will meekly allow his enemy to cut his throat."
http://www.hks.harvard.edu/cchrp/Web%20Working%20Papers/WebJuneReport.pdf
The paper is a bit dated, but it addresses all the important points (it also has the unique benefit of not being classified, lol )
I can't believe that nobody has considered the weapon potential of those two tankers in a war of suicide bombers. Those two things going off could have destroyed that whole base. Individually broken up there was enough fuel there to keep the Taliban supplied with Molotov Cocktails and killing people and Armor for the next decade.
The destruction of the fuel was regretable, but balanced by the killing of some very dangerous insugents. Additionally, the air strike prevented any additional casulties as a ground assualt would have required. Who is to say the German kids doing the ground assualt would not have been killed when the Talliban blew the truck???
Colonel Klein made the right decision, strategically, tactically, and from a humanitarian standpoint. Why did the Talliban go to that village with the trucks?? To show and recruit amongst supporters.
We should try and get him sometype of medal, for making a very hard call correctly.
We should form a Facebook site or something to support the Colonel and his men, who have been given the most ridiculous rules of engagement. This would be a worthwhile effort for Germans, Americans, Britons, Dutch, Danes, Poles, and Ukrainian civilians and everybody else fighting for Freedom in Afganistan.
Oh and I forgot as anybody who has been there will tell you, the Majority of Afgans are on Freedom's side also.
If (and that's a really big IF) you ever actually served in the (US) military, then I think that calls for an urgent re-evaluation of ASVAB requirements!!!
Anyway to you bernie1927, i'm interested in your story you say you where born in germany, so did you serve on the german side? where you hitler youth? what area's did serve or fight in? i'm not trying insult or disrespect you even if you served on the german side, you just sound like person with an interesting story to tell.
Temper, temper
Why don't we try to cool down a bit, fellers? Calling each other trailer trash and fat and ugly, especially when it's anonymous, is not all that brave. Wouldn't it be nice if we could meet and shake hands and be friends?
Here is a real life example: I started a retail store some 30 years ago, here in upstate New York. I had to face a situation where my manager got hot under her collar, when an unreasonable customer came in and demanded to return his watch and wanted his money back. She got into a big argument with him and eventually did return the money and took back the watch. The customer left madder than hell and never returned. The lesson that I passed on to my girl was: "Well, tell me, what did you end up doing?" She said: "I gave him back the money."
I then told her that that was what she ended up doing anyway, then why not be nice about it and save the customer, right? I think the lesson stuck and our reputation is sterling to this day. The store is owned by my daughter and her husband today.
Terrorists used a tanker as a weapon against the housing for Americans and Europeans in Saudi Arabia. I believe it was called the Anbar Tower incident. Very destructice.
You don't have to explain yourself to me!!!I I'm pure German ethnically/culturally, etc....but you would never guess that based on my appearance [because I'm not ethnically/racially "typical">!)Superficiality is dangerous!!
(The only Bill Mitchell I know of was a physicist, and he died a few years ago....in England)
Incidentally, there was a German Workingmen's Aid Society in Ludington, Michigan, from 1876 until 1937, but its activity was practically dormant from 1917, again prompted by anti-German sentiment during and after WW1.
Those were the days when various German-themed foods were renamed because of the USA's entry into WW1. The name "Victory cabbage" for sauerkraut was dropped after the war, but the change from German toast to French toast proved permanent.
I'm a historian, don't forget, so you're liable to get more information than you expected!!!
But I thought it was Curtis LeMay who was credited as the father of stratobombing (?)
There will probably be no coverage on here about this because people will no doubt (mistakenly) view this as a US-only event, but I feel compelled to make a seemingly unconnected comment in tribute to the recent wall-stars at OHB Langley, VA.
RIP
Certain elements in the West blast every Military decision on the part of the NATO forces fighting for Fredom in Afganistan, they credit all civillian cassualties to our side.
But last week a suicide bomber crashed his car into a group of people celebrating in Pakistan and blew himself up! Ninety civilians were killed. This was deliberate targetting of civilians and no budy in the western press said anything bad about these Talliban aligned crazies.
We only nit pick and harras our own troops