February 9, 2010
Published: 10 Jul 09 11:53 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/opinion/20090710-20509.html
A Muslim woman is stabbed to death in a Dresden courtroom and nobody seems to care. Der Tagesspiegel's Andrea Dernbach comments on Germany’s problematic relationship to Islam.
The Local (news@thelocal.de)
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Your comments about this article:
And lastly, why are there so few comments to this article? Doesn't anyone care any more? XXX
No.
And why should we?
The courts send us the message that it is unimportant by giving "three months on bail" sentences when they ARE caught.
So why should WE see it as important?
As to whether the victim is Egyptian, German, Inuit or bloody Martian, it makes no difference. The courts don't give a toss and label any one that does as "Rechtsextrem".
Perfectly correct.
The subject of the girl's murder is ignored by ordinary volk because it is a process failure and not an crime against muslims. Nobody, whatever sex or religion, is killed in a courtroom. The process failed but it will be fixed - that is why we pay taxes.
If you think this is different to the way you were brought up then you can remind yourself why you are living in a different country.
"But Chancellor Angela Merkel has remained silent and Geert Mackenroth, Saxony?s justice minister, apparently only wants to use the incident to push for closed courtrooms in the state ? even though public access to trials is one of the most important pillars of a modern legal system." The politician/assh**e does not get it, it was not someone viewing the proceedings, it was the defendant that killed this lady. This is good reason to close off the proceedings to the public.
I think Frau Dernbach has some very good points that need to acted upon in order to stem the tide of indifference on the part of Germany in these matters. The record to date is very mixed.
Are you suggesting that all defendants suspected of violence are restrained (after all, we are innocent until proven guilty) or only those involving crimes with muslim prosecution witnesses?
The fact that the responding officer shot the victim's husband instead of the attacker shows that they too agreed with the bigoted views of the attacker.
You people tried vilifying an entire religious group two generations ago, and look where it got your country. Indifference in the face of murderous hatred is as good as hatred itself.
BTW, on the topic of vilifying an entire religious group, Holocuast denial is widespread in Egypt and an infamous anti-Jewish forgery is a best seller there.
Unfortunately, the original article, while raising legitimate questions, is really quite inflamatory. Retorically, this is fine in a world where people can discuss things sensibly - but this subject and sense don't sit together well for some others.
The sad thing is that unnecessary heat caused by one idiot with a knife and those suggesting that there is more to it may eventually lead to US-style security on all public buildings in Germany just to prove...
...well to prove something anyway.
"Could it be that this death – which is now a murder investigation – did not fit the preconceived notions most Germans have of Muslims?"
Dear author - from 10+ years in Germany, I would suggest that the answer to this is 80% NO. For the other 20%, including most German Moslims I know, the answer is equivocal.
As far as this courtroom episode goes, it gives me the idea that if I were living there in Germany, and had the time, I would see if I could look up court cases similar to these so that I could be in the audience so that I could knock the snot out of a freak like this-- or worse if necessary. Yes, I am not an ex-pat but I have considered being one, so that is why I am in the forum. Islam is so down on women, and down on their self-determination, but a movement in the pro-life direction requires self-determination. I hate to see it stepped on, particularly in an area where there is an advance needed. This woman had some courage. Atleast I hope it inspires others.
So we are discussing a colapse of the security system in the court, and then a PURELY "Immigrant problem". The actual attack has as much to do with Germany as the price of B.M.Ws in Tokyo.
May Marwa al-Sherbini rest in peace.
1) Anti-racism, actually I think that Police simply shoot the victim husband because he fits their standards for typical attackers, the actual attacker is white skin with blue eyes (Western Angle).
2) Free-Media, lol we barely heard of this accident anywhere (maybe two or three lines somewhere), if the Egyptian guy is the attacker we can imagine how the first pages of major Newspapers will look like for weeks.
3) Multi-cultural: maybe they mean by this that they accept socially and politically Austrians, French, Italian …etc. But Asian, Africans and South Americans are 3rd World culture which does not fit in this society.
What is your point? That people see things in the light of their own history? Of course! If the attacker had been a Muslim killing a Jew or a Christian, do you think the 80 percent would have seen this as more than just a murder by a mad man taking advantage of bad security?
That is the point: what bothers me about the incident is that the media and the politicians do not treat it the same way they would if the victim had been a Jewish pregnant young woman killed by a Muslim, because the correctly gauge the general publics sentiments. Had the victim been an Israeli, they would have come out in droves in support of donating to Israel a sixth Dolphin class Submarine to carry a few dozen more of Israel's non-exitent nukes around the world.
We German are all peaceful people in Germany as the football world championship in 2006 has proved !
And to answer some stupid comment: you don't need to be a german citizen nor to reside in Germany not even to live in Germany to condem this kind of situations! If one sees something wrong then one has to stand up for what is right and to push for things to be changed! And what is home? Home is where you develop your social life and where one feel it's home, not the place where one was born, grew up or whatever. Understood moorekwesi? Thanks.
I really hope people will start start learning soon that the Earth is our planet and we are all humans. I really hope people will start thinking a little bit and learning to be a global citizen.
So in your world view people have a "home" attached to their idenity and no matter where they go later on they can't remove that "Home" label. How does it feel to have so much in common with the stabber!
As an American with olive skin I have been to Denmark, Germany, Austria and Russia where I lived for about two years. The constant stares I got walking down the street with my blonde blue-eyed wife holding my hand made me feel creepy. We had none of that in Prauge, Budapest or anywhere in Italy where we had long stays.
It is important to ask why the media hasn't tried to pick up this story as a hate crime and run with it, because we know they would if the stabber were a Turkish man attacking a white often rude and drunk Dutch filmmaker who had a bone to pick with Islam.
Bayern Munich7 :"Let's all drink a Beer "
Off course we will drink beer...that's how people in this country wash down their guilt ...........I think deep down inside every german is just dying to wipe all the races and claim their beloved 'reich' ............
I really feel their pain lol.
And I would like to pause two questions to the German government: 1. How do you instruct your police force to shoot the wrong person? And why do you appease your police force for shooting inocent people?
2. Is it not also as criminal to treat a "murder" case as a manslaughter?
This is a clear case of state terrorism and yet another underground masonic white wash, that will add more fuel to an existing Anti-Islamic racial fire!!
So "normally it's Muslim men beating, acid-attacking their wives"!? Is that a fact or something you picked up in the German media which puts a magnifying glass on Muslim hate crimes? Did you even bother to Google "Domestic Violence" and see what you get? Here in the US, there are between 1.5 to 3 million attacks on women by their intimates each year, and 3 are killed daily by their partners! Does that qualify as normal to you?
Taking your argument farther, even if Muslims were silent to suicide attacks against citizens of powerful nations who occupy their lands, what should we make of the silence of all Germans who witnessed systematic killing of 10 millions of Jews and other innocents in World War II? Many thousands of Iranians held candle light vigils on streets of Tehran after 9/11 deaths; now did you see that on your news or the dancing of Muslims on streets after 9/11? May be Iranians are not Muslims??!
Auf wiedersehen Deutschland...
which i simply search for the "marwa dresden" in German websites. the result: 62.200
web pages.
and the same case which happened for Iranian girl called Neda in last month protest in Teheran.
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=neda+teheran+site%3A.de&btnG=Suche&meta=
the result : 243.000
Auf wiedersehen Deutschland...
And German culture also gave us Fichte...
Attacking German morals and values is flawed. People make their own choices and decisions. Show me the Shangri-La where the morals and values are perfect (for everyone) and nothing bad happens because I want to move there!
To Eurostan - WHAT? You're not German or white, so you're not racist?! WHAT?! That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard! You can't be serious. Please tell me you're not serious.
Are you trolling!
She deserved punishment because she was wearing a veil! So in a country that insists on all kinds of individual freedom we should punish people who look different! And then the general comment about Muslims in India, coming from a Indian who knows well women were traditionally expected to be burned when their husbands dies and to this day witnesses brutality to mother who gave birth to girl.
People Every society has capacity for extreme cruelty and kindness. A better world is simply the result of people looking past religion and color. If you can§t do it, stop calling others names for it because they are just like you!
You are such a low-life. You must be one of those lowest cast people which are called "Dullat" in India, I guess. Because you are not treated fairly in your own society by your own fellow hindu indians, i know that you usually blame it on other minorities in India.
As for the rest, I really condemn this accident. In the words of a great historian of 20th century, when asked about what was the biggest lesson of history he said "The biggest lesson of history is that people tend to forget it." The phobia created against muslims is to the benefits of the same people who always need a figure in this world to demonize and make money out of it. Once it was communism, now it is muslims, so what is next. China?
German society and politicians need to address this. I am not that worried about whether that low-life racist gets away with it or gets sentenced but what does the german people make out of it.
if u know bad muslims, it doesn't mean that all muslims r bad or that other religions have perfect holy angels that never do wrong as followers.or maybe the problem of ur country's muslims is that they're "indians"!!!!
please......!!!!
the best we can do is reduce the number of hate filled idiots who are willing to kill on behalf of their ideas and superstitions. that goes for neo nazies as well as jihadis.