Published: 6 Dec 12 14:23 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20121206-46611.html
Germany must ban the NPD to remove the neo-Nazi party's fig-leaf of legitimacy allowing society's democratic institutions to ignore racist violence and intimidation, Professor Hajo Funke told The Local.
Hannah Cleaver (hannah.cleaver@thelocal.de)
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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Your comments about this article:
The Neo Nazis use this deficit for their own purposes. A real democracy would not have this problem!
Of course there will always be extremists in the field of politics (left and right), just as there are in religions, but to forbid such organisations just forces them into the underground. It does nothing to remedy the roots of the trouble, that can only be achieved by having the better arguments.
In this case, despite all the brainwashing done by the media, little has been said which might convince anybody with a set opinion.
Fear is always a bad master. It would seem that this call for a ban, is nothing more than the fright of losing voters to the NPD, rather than fighting extremism. There have been times, when both the Greens and Linkspartei were regarded as extremists, why do they still exist?
american25276, seems like you too are having your asses being handed to you. that doesn't stop us from learning from our mistakes and modernize ourselves to become a movement of 21st century. Look at you allied countris today, in such a sorry state you are.
I would think letting them voice their arguments in parliament and then defeating them is better than silencing them or forcing them underground.
Will nationalist sentiment in Germany automatically be labelled as 'neo-nazi,' for all eternity??
To those familiar with the language of the mass media in the BRD the answer is obviously yes. People who are not intimately familiar with the pervasive culture of self-hatred in what remains of Germany will have a hard time understanding this.
Perhaps you meant patriotic instead of "nationalist" when you posed this very important question?
Patriotism is irreconcilable with the parasitic BRD which daily acts against the interests of the German people. A nationalist is a patriot who understands the history and the political problem today and believes that this 'Dem deutschen Volke' still means something.
How about this: "Lang lebe das deutsche Reich !!" Illegal to say this in the BRD?? Is this a 'nazi' phrase?? For certain 'patriotic pride' in the German history, people, culture, language, scientific achievements, etcetera, also gets thrown under the bus.
OK, so you see yourself as the original 19th century German nationalists did, fighting against a foreign occupier here in Germany?
How I see myself is irrelevant; the German nation first existed over a thousand years ago so 'original 19th century nationalists' is very misleading; the fight against the foreign occupiers (and their numerous German helpers) at this point in time is being fought at the level of awareness/media; the situation both in the BRD and the greater west is so unique to our times that I don't see the parallel it seems you are aiming at.
I agree with your thoughts regarding the state of things here in Germany and the West at the moment.
I brought up the 19th century nationalists because, as you know, there was no national consciousness of what it meant to be German before this time. Yes, there was perhaps a German nation a thousand years ago as you say, but that is a modern idea that we have assigned to these peoples who would have identified themselves with their tribes and later with their kingdoms and duchies rather than "Germany" or even Germania, which was a Roman concept.
I would describe myself as a patriot rather than a nationalist but each has to decide for himself. Iss jut- ich will nicht mit Dir streiten, und wir sollten nicht. Iss nur eine Kleinigkeit. :)
PS Do you listen to Christoph Hörstel?
Dir auch. Und ein frohes Julfest dazu. :)
- "what remains of Germany" -> Does that mean that Germany is shrinking or disappearing and if so in which sense?
- "parasitic BRD that daily acts against the interests of the German people" -> What are those "interests of the German people"? In which way does the BRD act against them? What would you call acting in favour of these "interests"? What regime / ruler of the past best examplifies this?
I'm asking it very plainly and it sounds stupid, but the thing is, I already have an idea of which answers you might have (no, I'm not thinking of the 3rd Reich...) but because your points were very vague, I thought it would be better to get you to explain them so that I know what you exactly talk about rather than just guessing - and possibly guessing wrong.
Thanks!
The German family is dying out, the German people are dying out. 1.3 babies for every 2 Germans... 2.1 is the bare minimum needed to sustain a country. Of course the figure is actually much lower than 1.3 as about 33% of all the newborns in the country are sub-saharan Africans, Arabs,Turks, Russians, on and on.
The state is a parasite in that it transfers the great wealth and potential of this land to the E.U., to the Israelis, to the bankers, to the millions of immigrants who offer ZERO to this/our people, all in a very transparent effort to accelerate the process of utterly stamping out the German-ness of the people living in the center of Europe.
It is illegal to question in any profound way the path we have taken the last 80 years... but it's ok to say 'fick den Deutschen, scheiss auf den Deutschen, etc...' Volksverraeter ex-foreign minister Joshka Fischer has pretty much said the same thing, albeit in a somewhat more banal vein.
Does this answer your question??
Even those "interests" are still unclear to me, apart from, as I can understand from your post, preserving the language, culture and ethnicity of the German people and possibly in the purest possible form and with little foreign influence (at best without foreign diplomas or musicals). I don't know if that's the way to guarantee a happy society, but anyway, let me tell you where I disagree with that opinion:
1. The BRD has achieved nothing short of a miracle: making Germany one of the most prosperous and respected nations in the world. This definitely worked in favour of the German people. In 1945, the Germans were starving and had been bombed back into Stone Age. Building prosperity was one of the best things the BRD has done for its people, as opposed to the previous regimes, which brought Germany on the brink of annihilation through suicidal wars.
2. What is the "German people"? Just like most Europeans, the Germans of today (minus the recent immigrants) are the descendents of white Europeans who kept mixing with each other for centuries. In the case of the Germans, the majority of these ancestors, but not all of them, had been ancient Germanic tribes speaking Germanic languages. Did the Celts, the Wends or the Huguenots leave Germany at some point or did they eventually blend in? It's obvious around Berlin that Slavs used to live in the area for a long time and left traces of their language in the names of towns and villages. Genetically speaking, any white person is as much at home in Germany as anywhere else in Europe.
3. I come from a country which also has a great past and is quite defensive about its language and culture, and I hear the same tired arguments there, sometimes. But before American pop culture was popular in Germany, you had King Friedrich der Große who would speak and write in French rather than in German. That's just the way things come and go with cultures and languages.
4. Being a foreigner here makes me strongly disagree with your statement about the immigrants "who offer ZERO to Germany"... For example, French immigration in Germany produced the Gendarmenmarkt, Theodor Fontane, the asparagus craziness and lots of everyday words. It is possibly the same with most groups coming in. Even Beethoven was half-Dutch. That's before we mention the skilled foreigners contributing to the German economy.
5. Why is Joschka Fischer a Volksverräter? I looked up this term and it sounds like a word that's very much favoured by some circles of people I'd rather have nothing to do with. Fischer's enduring popularity shows he can't have had it all wrong.
I don't think we're gonna agree here, but if you care to answer, I'll read what you write.
I referred to the 'millions' of non-european immigrants who basically are busy setting up parallel societies in the heart of Germany and who have little or no respect for the language/customs/culture, and who without the generous aid offered by the socialist international (BRD) would never be there in the first place. I can understand that one could easily misinterpret my statement... let me clarify, I have absolutely no problem with my fellow europeans who want to live in Germany, providing they respect this land and its' people, difficult as that may be with the daily negative bombardment that our enemies' shower down upon us.
Same thing in current eastern Germany with all the Slavic names. There are lots of German people with common German surnames which are originally Slavic, like for example Kretschmer (and all the variants), which is originally Sorbic or Czech (Krčmár means "innkeeper"). There's nothing good or bad about that, it's just the facts, which are better than myths.
Also, Germany's location in the centre of Europe, along the path of many trade roads, made it a good place for foreigners to settle, armies to invade, etc, every time making the area less "homogeneous".
Even Immanuel Kant claimed he had Scottish ancestors, because there were so many Scots in the Memel area back then.
I don't know what you mean by Germans being "genetically dominant as opposed to the Celtic", but that is at best very very lousy "science". In any case, there are lots of places in Europe with Germanic names, where people nevertheless don't speak a Germanic language, because the original Gallo-Roman culture/language survived and the Germanic "invaders", after conquering the place, blended in and eventually became Latinized. Just a few examples include: Lombardy, Catalonia (Gothlandia), Burgundy, Andalusia, Normandy, Lorraine, or indeed, France.
I see you are indeed a very staunch nationalist. There is possibly nothing wrong with that (except that German nationalism almost destroyed Germany - twice) but I fail to see why there is a need to be so defiant of the BRD and of foreigners, or to invent a mythical past to be proud of. Germany's real past is great enough without having to invent myths. Germany's present is great too: never has the country been so wealthy, admired and respected, never has the German language been so popular and taught abroad. When Schiller and Goethe were writing their greatest works, the German nobility would still speak German only to their servants and to their horses.
I don't know how much "respect" you expect from foreigners but most Germans around me seem to be happy with my attitude and that of most other foreigners. One thing I know for sure, is that if the majority of Germans around me spoke like you and said stuff like "Volksverräter" and "genetic dominance" and all that, I would have left the country pretty quick and never looked back.
Good day to you.
This is a completely laughable phrase. Learn the real history.
Genetics: it is what it is, regardless of whether I say it or not. Generally speaking the white ie. indo-european races will be dominated when mixed with whoever... I merely supposed that within the indo-european family the germanic tends to dominate over and against the celtic... this by way of explaining why England is roughly 85/90% anglo-saxon origin. Let me say again I am not an expert by any means and would more than welcome true expert opinions.
Names of places, when who spoke French and what have you, proves nothing.
Let me say again, that until roughly 120 years ago the Germans (much like the Polish) were the most ethnically homogeneous in Europe... this despite being in the crossroads and all the wars.
Germany has "never been so respected and admired..." Yeah sure I see that all the time in the mass media, in the movies, in the newspapers. As soon as someone throws out the absurd idea that the German people should run their own country people start bleating "neo-nazi neo-nazi." When a German criticizes the regime in Israel it's "anti-semite" and "Holocaust!!" That's respect and admiration let me tell you.
Remember: China for the Chinese, Nigeria for the Nigerians, Mexico for the Mexicans, Korea for the Koreans, Iran for the Iranians, Germany for whoever the fck wants to knock on the door.
Even the present Federal German Governments in the Berlin parliament houses dedicated "Dem Deutschen Volke" nationally had fallen in disfavor for failing to comply with democratic virtues of their western partners beginning Iraq and as latest as the Libyan Replacement. Looks like the motto of present day humanity is to 'sprinkle death by democracy and create confusion with irresponsible free speech' and yet not change the possessive gravitational pull of the Earth even by a milligram.
So, back on Planet Science, according to most academic research on the genetic history of European peoples, Europe is the most genetically homogeneous continent, and it has been observed and proved through the study of various genetical markers that the various peoples that inhabit this continent: they are remarkably similar to each other on genetic level. The very few European populations that show a high level of "internal homogeneity" and are significantly distinct from other Europeans' genetic background are the few geographically isolated non Indo-European peoples (the Sami of Lapland, Finns, Basques, but not the Magyars of Hungary) plus a few insular Indo-European peoples that remained considerably isolated for long periods of time, mostly Icelanders and Sardinians, and to a lesser degree, the insular Greeks. The other populations of Europe show some genetic variation towards each other, but only to a very small degree, with very small "genetic distances" from people to people. Please refer to Luigi Cavalli-Sforza's publications on the matter.
There is no academic consensus on the genetic heritage of the current English population, but most research supports the view of over 50% of pre-Germanic heritage (Celtic and even pre-Celtic). Any serious linguistical and cultural study of England reveals that a couple of Celtic languages survived several English regions well into the Middle Ages, in particular Cornish of Cornwall that was widely spoken until the 17th century. The population of Britannia became English-speaking (ie culturally Germanic) through social and economic processes, and to a lesser degree only, ethnic factors.
But then anyway, "Germanic", "Celtic" or "Slavic" peoples are much more defined as ethno-linguistic groups and certainly not as clearly established gene pools.
You will find that Mexico, China, Nigeria and Iran are culturally, ethnically and genetically far more diverse than Germany or that the whole of Europe; Korea is a bit of an exception, indeed a remarkably homogeneous place.
But then I was not aware that Germans were not running their own country. They're even accused of running Europe! Who is running Germany then?