Published: 30 Nov 12 11:30 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20121130-46485.html
Germany decided to abstain from a vote granting the Palestinians non-member "Observer State" status at the United Nations. The Local's media roundup looks at the potential implications for the Middle East.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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Your comments about this article:
I am not sure I understand your post. Can you substantiate your statements with facts, or is it just your opinion? When you talk about real evil, are you thinking of Zionism (along Nazism and Communism)?
Recognising Palestine as "non-member observer state" (instead of "non-member observer entity") is in line with looking for a two-state solution, just as former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert stated. Of course the solidarity with Palestine shown by the majority of the countries does not help the negotiation position of the Israeli government, but as the Berliner Zeitung says, it is not a danger for the Israeli state.
The real Palestinian state is Jordan. The Palestinians are the "Gypsies" of the Middle East.
I do not like what is going on, the socio-economic situation here and the damage to the middle class families and also the Israeli -Palistinian conflict,we are completly stucked. we do not want to control or govern by force another people,even Ariel Sharon reached the same conclusion and orded the withdrown from Gaza strip,For good or for bad Abu Mazen is a partner we can not find somebody else ,he is there and got his state allready years ago.
No other possibility but mutual recognition and definition of new borders between the 2 states,if not the conflict will go on,
The right wing parties made all possibile mistakes in the last 4 years in the internal politic and forgein politic.
we are going to vote on 22.1.13 for a new government.
the right parties will not get my card ,that is for a sure.
@MattyB
Palestinians make up the majority of the population in Jordan, yet are repressed, tortured, even killed there by the government and you cry about Israel?
@MattyB #4 Whats the difference?
Whether in Jordan, Palestine or in the occupied territories, torture is torture. Oppression is oppression and dead is dead. There is a reason why the majority of Palestinians live outside Palestine?
Occupation, Oppression and ethnic cleansing. When the Zionist arrived in Palestine with their Holy Land decree from the British government the majority population were non-jews.
Double standard nonsense.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton remarks this week regarding the UN vote.
The path to a two-state solution that fulfills the aspirations of the Palestinian people is through Jerusalem and Ramallah, not New York, she said. The only way to get a lasting solution is to commence direct negotiations.
The only way? Where did the Zionist negotiated the Balfour Declaration....England. Where was the UN resolution 181 negotiated....New York.
the sides must be pragmatic,
Balfour declaration was back long before 1947 and was made by Britain in order to get the support of the Jewish population in Palestine during the war against Hitler, it was a document without value because Britain opposed the Jewish ambitions to create their own state in Palestine and issued the white book with laws which limited that aspirations.You mention resolution 181 from 29.11.47 this resolution called to the partition of Palestine into 2 states a Jewish one and an Arab Palestinian one, if the arabs would have accepted that resolution, there would have been no wars,no refuggie, there would have been two states a very tiny Israel in pre 1948 cease fire borders and a Palestinian state living in peace side by side to Israel,of course without these terribile wars there would have no refuggie problem,they rejected any 2 states solution till Oslo agreement and that is real tragedy.
Many of the leaders of the October revolution were Jewish and the communists are not renowned as being anti-Semitic .
The only way to even begin to get peace in the middle east is for Israel to stop all building on occupied lands and the Palestinians to stop firing rockets and to grasp the fact Israel is there to stay and will not give up Jerusalem as a capital (I hope it can share it ) and will not allow a massive influx of "refugees" to return .
Hard facts that both sides need to address if there is any hope for the future in that part of the world.
"Cracks me up how so many of you are for the Palestinians having a homeland (even tho Jordan is 80% Palestinian) but you don't want the Jews to have a homeland."
1. Nobody has said Israel doesn't have a right to exist. It obviously does.
2. Jordan is about 30% Palestinian, and almost all of those are refugees who are not allowed to return to their homes in Israel.
3. That Jordan is the homeland of Palestinians is meaningless propaganda put about by those who don't want the Palestinians to have their own state. It doesn't bear up to any scrutiny of the facts, and even if it was true, it doesn't make the occupation of the West Bank any less illegal.
I think you people do not know history because the real history has been changed and has been made fake. Palestinians are the legitimate people of Palestine and Isreal has been made by what's called The Balfour Declaration.
You are right, genocidal hate exists on both sides. And it is of course fueled by the illegal settlements in the occupied territories. One might argue that hate is also the cause for continuing to build those settlements. Both parties seem decided to exterminate their enemies.
Sadly your last sentence sum it all up and till that changes peace has no hope.
But you meant determined didn't you?
Indeed, I used "decided" in the sense of "having clear opinions; resolute; determined".
When I was in Israel I visited a Christian Palestinian family in the West Bank. They were a normal family running a store in Bethlehem, birthplace of Jesus. Their business was ruined by Israeli restrictions. Their city was surrounded by a concrete Israeli wall. Their son had been kidnapped from their home at night repeatedly and held in an Israeli prison. They hated Israel as much as the Muslim Palestinians.
On the other hand Jews continue to live in Islamic countries, which is amazing if your claim of their genocidal beliefs is true. You'd think they'd all be dead. But in fact their rights are protected in constitutions across the region. In fact in one of the most extreme Islamic governments, in Iran, there is a legal requirement that a minimum number of Jewish MP's serve in the Iranian parliament.
The Palestinian-Jewish conflict is territorial in nature, but has been used by extremists on both sides to further their own agenda. Don't let yourself be a tool for extremists.
BOTH sides preach genocide hate? That kind of ignorance just sums up the twisted logic people like you use. I must have missed the Israeli children's programing teaching Jewish children to hate all Muslims, or the direct and open calls to kill all Muslims from Israeli Rabbis, or all the Israeli literature calling for the destruction of all Palestinians and Muslims, or the celebrations in Israeli cities when Palestinians or Muslims are killed.
15:17 December 1, 2012 by antistar
Again, what twisted logic people use. Yes, all those well known, flourishing, Jewish communities in Muslim nations (rolling eyes). We all know Jews from arond the world are lining up to move to places like Syria, Baghdad, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc. I won't even begin to address your assertion that their rights are protected, because it is so insane, so detached from reality, I can barely wrap my mind around how deluded you must be to make such a statement. There are many ancient Jewish communities across the Middle East, in places such as Baghdad and Cairo, that have ceased to exist over the last century due to the rise of Islamic extremism across the region.
Yes, indeed, apparently you missed many facts by selecting only those that fit your ideas. For example, you seem unable to see the continuous targeting of Palestinian civilians (mostly women and children). "Nothing good will come out of it unless they keep fighting all the way until they wipe them all out", "There is only one way to deal with the cancer: you burn it out or you remove it", "They are forcing us to kill their children to defend our children". All this was said by Israelis while celebrating the death of Gaza children (you can find the video on Youtube).
So yes, it seems that you have all the information and if somebody disagrees with you, he/she must be an ignorant/insane person. They come with facts (ex. Jewish MPs in the Iranian parliament), you come with personal attacks. Sounds fair to you, right?
Deliberately targeting civilians?! Are you kidding me? Hamas blows up buses full of civilians, and fires rockets indiscriminately at civilians, and you want to complain that Israel is targeting civilians when they hit back at cowardly Hamas hiding their firing positions among women and children. And I don't want to hear that that is a bunch of Israeli propaganda. We've seen that in Iraq, Afghanistan, and in other middle east conflicts. These cowards set up firing positions and hide behind women and children. They sacrifice their own kids to score propaganda points.
Also, love that you post vague quotes and say "hey, go find it." What, you cannot post the link. It's not hard, let me show you a link you ought to check out:
http://www.memri.org/media-archives-antisemitism-holocaust-denial.html
As for Jewish MPs (pural) in Iranian parliament, there is only 1; Iran allows its various religious minorities only 1 slot each, and those reps are normally just propaganda figureheads with no real influence or power. In other words, its their job to "look" like the Iranian govt gives a crap about its minorities. They tow the official govt line, and don't speak about things like the FACT that Jews are banned from serving in top govt and military positions and often face educational and employment discrimination, or the fact that from time to time religious tensions flare up and Iran's religious minorities often find their places of worship burned, and persons physically attacked (largely with no legal consequence against the attackers). At the beginning of the 20th century Iran's Jewish communnity was near 100,000-150,000 strong; today that stands at less than 25,000 (some say as little as 8,000). Wonder why? Most Persian Jews today live in the US or Israel. Again, wonder why?
"What, you cannot post the link." - well, you might have thought that it is a rhetorical question, but TheLocal did not allow me to post the YouTube link. But by using "Israelis while celebrating the death of Gaza children" you should not have any problem finding the respective video. And yes, I dare you to show me how should I have posted the respective YouTube link.
So I show you Israeli hating Palestinians and you reply that there were Israeli civilians victims? That's exactly what my point was, that both parties act genocidal against each other. It is not about good guys and bad guys, but bad guys and bad guys.
Oh, you have the impression that Jews in Iran are discriminated and attacked? Let's see what an article in a Jewish newspaper says about Jews in Iran:
Start of quotes
I ask him whether he is not afraid to say that he is a Jew. He says no. ¦quot;All the Jews in Iran live like the Muslims. Everybody — Muslims, Jews, everyone — shares the economic problems here.¦quot;
In an AP interview last March, Moresadegh was quoted as saying, ¦quot;No matter who dares to attack our country, we will stand against the threats like other Iranian people. The Iranian Jewish community will stand by their compatriots under any circumstance, forever.¦quot;
¦quot;I never felt like I was being attacked because I was Jewish, or that my religious freedom was harmed,¦quot; he says. ¦quot;I have a good friend, a Muslim, who takes care of me.
¦quot;My best friends are Muslim, but I have no problem saying I¦#39;m Jewish.¦quot;
End of quote
Source http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=6065; October 12, 2012
If you are not aware of the cruel rhetoric that often comes out of the Israel side as well, then you are keeping yourself willfully ignorant.
You could start with the collected speeches of the currently serving Foreign Minister of Israel, Avraham Lieberman. there have been uncountable examples of The Israel leadership calling the Palestinian people animals, savages, less than human for many decades, look at Menachem Begin, the Sabra and Shatilla massacres ordered by him, Ariel Sharon and of course Netanyahu, the things that have come out of these men's mouths are indescribable, and often caught on camera, and yes those words are often followed by actions.
Whether they are "accidentally " obliterating UN refugee centers full of women and children in Lebanon, or building hundreds of thousands of settlement houses in a deliberate move to scuttle any two state solution, their values are obvious.
The fact that there are democratic elections in Israel does not excuse any of this, in fact it demonstrates that these cruel men have broad support among the population there which is even more disturbing.
The animosity and rhetoric from an extremists Islamic state and other political, religious fundamentalists in the region preaching for the destruction of Israel and death to all Jews is counterproductive and indeed worsen the plight of the Palestinian people.
Using crimes committed during WWII, which has nothing to do with the senseless cycle of violence in the Middle East is self-serving propaganda. The annexation of land and control of resources while denying the rightful owners and indigenous population freedom of movement, human rights and independent national sovereignty is good reason for rebellion and retaliation.
In your grounded in reality view, you neglect to mention the other sick and twisted doctrine of bulldozing non-jewish homes and villages to establish illegal Jewish settlements. The abuse and torture of children, the indiscriminate killing of mothers and infants during the assassination of political or religious targets.
MattyB #30
Cowardly Hamas hiding their firing positions. They sacrifice their own kids to score propaganda points.
How much courage does it take to fly jets, drones and helicopters over a city, fire missiles and return safely without any or ineffective challenge from ground defense?