Bosses can demand sick note from day one
Published: 15 Nov 12 06:54 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20121115-46179.html
Employers in Germany can demand that sick employees provide a doctor's note from the first day they call in sick, a state labour court ruled on Wednesday. Critics voiced concern that bosses could abuse the new power.
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The case was prompted in 2010 when managers asked a top journalist at a Cologne-based radio station for a sick note dated from the first day she missed work. She saw the request as harassment, as this was not standard practise at the station, and filed a legal complaint.
But she lost the case – the judge decided no official disciplinary investigation was required to prompt the demand for a sick note dating to the start of a member of staff's absence.
In 2011, an average German employee – of which there were around 37.5 million – took 9.5 days off sick.
German law has long stated that employees must inform their workplace if they are going to miss days due to illness.
The interpretation was, the defendant's lawyer Joachim Gärtner said, “unfriendly towards employees,” and carried a risk of being abused by managers.
The Confederation of German Employers' Associations, said it welcomed the change though.
DPA/The Local/jcw
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Your comments about this article:
Of course you've got the figures to prove that.
My wife works with Germans at a US facility. It's crazy how much the Germans abuse the sick time. My cat died and I'm stressed out. I'll be at the spa for 2 weeks working on my grief. There was one bloke that did have a very minor heart attack. No surgery was involved He was off for 6 months. Came back to work for one day. Said he was stressed. And was gone for 3 more months. All at the expense of the US. He used no sick/holiday time at all.
"My wife works with Germans at a US facility. It's crazy how much the Germans abuse the sick time."
I live here in Germany. You don't know your @$$ from a hole in the ground.
@Hech54: I know mine from a hole in the ground . . . and you are an @$$. Quit trying to be a keyboard bully.
The problem is also that doctors can be sued by patients, if the patient gets really sick and the doctor did not give them time off, they are considered partly at fault.
In this case, most doctors are happy to give people time off 'just in case' something happens.
That'll show 'em!
And if the employers "can demand that sick employees provide a doctor's note from the first day they call in sick " the people will have to get one from day one just in case they ask or can we now get them backdated "Hello Herr doctor I was ill last Thursday but today is the first time I could get to see you "
Yes that will work ,I will give it 6 months max before it is overturned.
In my company records show the highest rate of absenteesim is on a Friday, a Monday or the day after a long weekend.
Forget about the employer's point of view, in my opinion this is not fair to the other employees who have to take up the slack and to the other people who depend on the company for whatever product or service it provides. To use an old fashioned term its disrespectful and inconsiderate.
We've a new system now. You gotta show up to work. If you are too sick to work the company will take you to the doctor and foot the bill or make sure the employee health cover does so. If you're fluey or infectious the company will send you home anyway and pay for the cab, just to protect the other employees and customers and so forth. But if you don't show up and just call in sick, then you'll have to show a note or else lose either a day's pay or a leave day. I can tell, everybody got a lot healthier overnight.
The system for the Germans that work for the US facilities is a bit different from the private sector. Regardless. The Germans do in fact abuse the heck out of the system.
Oh! A word for you. Splenetic. That seems to sum up your response.
....you don't know your @$$ from a hole in the ground - stop watching Faux News - start listening to people who actually LIVE IN the country in question(an American who has lived in Germany for 10 years).
With the German system, as it stands, the DOCTOR says you are sick.....just the way 95% of Americans WISH was the case in America. Your employer(who is NOT a doctor) cannot dictate your medical condition and cannot threaten your job security based on your health condition. End Of Story.
I have been sick a couple of times with a flu. As someone pointed out, the only medicine for this is to stay at home and rest, and therefore I do so, I stay 1 or 2 days in bed and then back to office.
If my employer says that he don't trust me (and therefore I need to go to the doctor and wait for 3-4 hours since I have no appointment) to get a piece of paper saying the same that I have told him by the phone already, I will for sure stay "at least" 1 week at home, he deserve it.
I would love to see how many days off sick the "lazy" Greeks and the rest of the PIIGS took compared to the "hard working" Germans.
If the "average annual hours actually worked per worker" is anything to go by, with Greece being on top and Germany second last, I won't be surprised with the results.
http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS
According to your shown link, the Greeks actually work on average more hours than most other European countries.... That was intersting to read. I would have also expected other results.
On the other hand here , one of my co workers contracted head lice from his child. The doctor wrote him out for a week,after giving him a script for one day head lice removal.
If you want to be written out ask your co workers which doctor to visit.
I do live in Germany. But the problem with absenteeism is a universal one. There are a small subset of people that will always try to abuse any system. The employer then has to try and limit that abuse. Sometimes the result can seem unfair. I myself have never worked for a company that required me to provide a doctors note. But at the same time. I didn't abuse the system. And my employer trusted me. If however. To many people started to some how always get sick on a Friday, Monday, Or the day before or after a holiday. Then what is the employer to do? They can't just have a separate policy for just a few people. As they would then yell discrimination.
The system that is in place at my wife's office here in Germany is full of loopholes that CAN be abused if one is inclined to do so. Happily very few do. As most are honest. Here's how it works at the US facilities in Germany. A German national can call in sick for up to 2 weeks. They will receive full pay with no loss of accumulated sick time or holiday time. On the start of the 3rd week. They will then be switched to the German health care system. And then they will start to lose their sick/holiday time. So a few of the abusers will call in sick for 2 weeks. Come back for 1 day. Then call in sick again for another 2 weeks off with full pay. All without having to lose any sick/holiday time, wages, or having to even show you are sick.
2 Weeks? I thought it was 5 weeks? Are you sure about that? I was out for 4 weeks once due to an operation and did not get docked.
So in a sense I was one of ZEDDrivers "abusers": I am sorry to write I appeared at work if I could drive -- no matter how sick or feverish. I apologized to my my coworkers, and told them to keep a distance because I needed the money. I got some of them sick and I was ashamed, but without the extra 2 weeks, my kid was without Christmas and new school clothes.
What my company found was that the sick time dropped off, but no one was just sick a day or 2. People were sick zero days, or 14+.
In my experience, if you are out more than 2 days, you should see a doctor. After 3 days for the year with no doctor visit, you should have to get a note.
So your children had a rotten Christmas and were dressed in rags until your kind and considerate employer brought in this system, are you a character in a Charlies Dickens novel ,and or work for Ebenezer Scrooge inc. ?
The system at the US facilities is a blend of two systems. I could be off in some of the details as I'm not in their system. I will ask one of our friends for more details. The main point is that the way the system is set up. It is rather easy to abuse. As I said though. Most everyone is honest. But there are a few that milk it.
I think the main point of the locals article. Is that a company "can" ask for a note. That gives them the option to challenge a worker that abuses the health system. In poker parlance. The boss can now call your bluff. If you are really sick. No problem. If you are just trying to extend your weekend without using a vacation day. Opps! Even though it's easy to get a note for "stress" time off to go to the spa. You will still need to be in town to get said note. It will however make it difficult to call in sick for one extra or recovery day after hitting the slopes in Garmisch.
As you had surgery. There is no doubt that you needed and deserved time off.
@zeddriver
"Is that a company "can" ask for a note. That gives them the option to challenge a worker that abuses the health system. "
I can only assume you have not been on the receiving end of what firms can and can't do ,because most will demand a note to avoid paying sick pay ,as in the case where most firms no longer pay overtime but us a "time account " that they can send you home when it is best for them but you can't take the time when it is best for you.
If you are so sick you can't even get to a doctor. Then dial 112. or a friend, relative.
"because most will demand a note to avoid paying sick pay". What? If you get a note from a doctor. You will get your pay. If you just want a day off. Then use that comp/holiday time you earned.
Bottom line is that there has to be some give and take. Employers need to have the ability to stop waste and abuse. conversely if you feel that an employer is abusing you. That's what the courts are for. And in this case the courts said that the employee was not being asked for to much.
Again. I point to the case my wife told me of. A guy in her office disappeared from his office for six months. As the German system allows six weeks at a time before one's accumulated sick/holiday time is effected. He would show up at the office one day before his six weeks was up. Then call in sick yet again. And yes. He did go to his doctor and get a note. He told the doctor he was under stress. So even with a note. the system is subject to abuse. The doctor didn't care. He was getting his fee. This sort of abuse is detrimental not only to the company. But to the other workers that had to do extra work for this lazy bum. Who had a six month holiday with full pay.