Man dies after gang beat him up in Berlin

Wasn't there someone shot in that area a week or two back also? I wonder if these attackers are connected. I hope the police catch up on this fast as this sort of thing is not tolerable.

A group of Turkish guys beating a Thai boy to within an inch of his life in Germany. Immigrant racism at it's best!

Don't blame all Turkish people for this. There is undoubtedly a bad element involved here who do not represent the Turkish population as a whole.

Very sorry for the Thai chap. This sort of thing is becoming too common.

Unless they walked home the cams should have seen them in the station they will be caught.

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Saturday night brings all the shitheads to Alexanderplatz, a couple of weeks ago I saw at very close hand a pack of neo-nazis running around shouting Nazi slogans. I don't usually say this but they really could afford a few extra police patrols around that area, at least at the weekend.

Victim is from Thailand, don't look further it's probably a racist crime. How many time I have been insulted for speaking English, how many punch in the face I had to distribute to some German fascist dicks insulting me in 3 years...

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One day the German justic system will get some teeth in their laws ... right now the public does not fear being caught or locked up. I have noticed one thing that is really instesting though ... in a group thugs are always brave but one on one they wet their pants when confronted. My heart goes out to the young man and his family ...

Or in this case 3 on 7 and they wet their pants. Might have been afraid their fake gold chains would get scratched.

You're right Berlin für Alles, because that's what these attackers are: cowardly thugs. They'll attack you only when they outnumber you at least 3 to 1. Should their advantage sink below that, then it all run for it.

This is so horrible, so random, so senseless. I hope these beasts get caught and are dealt the punishment they deserve for this crime.

I also hope the victim survives. If there is a demonstration of citizens to reject this act, I will try to join it. And I hope I will see lots of Turks in there too...

"Statistically, if falling victim to a random violent assualt (mugging, robbery, lyniching or rape) we're all a whole lot more likely to have our assailants being of middle eastern origin. By far."

Really? have you any evidence for that statement or is this just one of those things everybody knows? After all, the police will be very interested to hear that all the lynichin(sic) they think is by neo-nazis is actually suicide.

If this poor boy not been blind drunk, had he had his wits about him, he would be enjoying berlin today intead of lying in hospital.

Masala ... if I understand you correctly, this youn man was attacked by seven thugs because he had been drinking ... sounds like you have first hand knowledge of this event ... like I said, one on one, they usually wet their panties and run away ... as far as what nation they are from, it really does not matter and I do not want to cloud the issue with suggestive statements other than to call them what they are.

@michael4096 I read police reports and statistics in different countries on a regular basis, I was working in the field for some time.

I don't recall the last time I read about a lynching done by neonazis, but I read near a dozen cases in which foreigners are involved. I'm not saying the neonazi problem is gone for good, I'm saying that the participation of foreign perpetrators is out of proportion to their % in the population.

In countries like England in the media they'll often hide the background of the perpetrator, leaving the reader assume he's a native, or write it down as "Asian", making the reader assume the perp is Chi/Jap/Tha/Vie...

@StoutViking - "I don't recall the last time I read about a lynching done by neonazis"

One of the biggest stories in Germany over the last year or so involved a group of neo-nazis murdering random people because they believed the victims to be of middle-eastern origin. Granted they usually shot them rather than lynched them but I guess the victims don't see the difference.

"I'm saying that the participation of foreign perpetrators is out of proportion to their % in the population"

You mean like the proportion of black American perpetrators to their % in the population? You didn't say which field you don't work in anymore but I guess it wasn't socio-economics.

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@michael4096 - Law enforcment field. Was freelancing for the fuzz where I live.

As for African-Americans, most of the crimes in this segment of the population is property related. When it comes to interracial violence, it's usually work related. But if let's say I were looking to build a profile of a serial killer, it is actually a more "vanilla flavored" crime.

As for the Zwickau cell, it could be said that it's an isolated incident (tho involving 8 victims - because it was committed by the same group of people) and it could be also attributed to faliure of the German secret services, in which they "flunked" time and time over tho having all cards infront of them. It's not out of lack of interest, it's out of inability to focus some 30,000 people they monitor and bad choice of "double agents".

Looking into police records - not some imaginary figures - you'll find out that even interracial assaults in Germany are grossly not German vs. foreigner, and bringing up the Zwickau Cell as counter-call is useless since figures speak for themselves. One Neonazi cell killed 8 people in their own region, whereas assaults on Germans and foreign nationals are a daily basis, which takes by far more than 8 (dead) victims each year.

@StoutViking -

So, now I understand...

- African-Americans are not comparable with Europe's deprived because we are looking at serial killers here

- neo-nazis are not in focus because the 8 people they murdered were in one region, I guess the 88 or so in Oslo don't count for the same reason

- the real numbers, which you have seen but are unknown by anybody else, point to far greater numbers of dead at the hands of these killers of middle-eastern origin

Wow! The world is a dangerous place isn't it? I'm surprised I don't trip over bodies every time I go out.

I seriously don't intend to start teaching you demographics and how to segment statistics, but you could enter the ones the police publishes.

In the US the statistics are actually saying the opposite of what the neonazis there try to attribute to the African-American population, whereas in Germany the statistics are the best recruiting tool.

Bringing up Zwickau and Brievik each time someone says there's a problem not just integrating, but bringing some immigrants to even respect basic human rights of others in their hosting country, will not solve a thing. The other way around actually.

Help yourself: "Tätverdachtiger: Migrationshintergrund".

http://www.berlin.de/imperia/md/content/polizei/kriminalitaet/pks/pks_2011.pdf?start&ts=1335259938&file=pks_2011.pdf

It's just the Berlin figures and a tad dodgy, since in this report they only count immigrants as immigrants till they turn 21, after that they count them with the rest, which, if my math is correct... Makes the real figure skyrocket.

You don't tip over bodies, but I bet it's not an encounter with group of young Germans/Vietnamese/Jews/Hindus late at night in a dark street/u-bahn station that makes your ears perk in alert, does it?

Interestingly, the Media and Politicians often say that the public would have a sense if Politicians would not tell the truth.But when it comes in terms of crime issues and personal experiences,the Media and Politicians doubt these sense of the Citizens.

And some Years later one or two Politicians step up and write a Book about things what the ordinary citizen sees on a daily basis for years and know and complains.

In the politically correct crime statistics distinguish only between Germans and non-Germans.Germans with a foreign background is not mentioned seperatly.

http://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Broschueren/2012/PKS2011.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

I don`t like this Blog really,too populistic,but i think he has a point.

11 murders of Germans to foreigners. In an almost identical period 1061 German were killed by foreigners in Germany.

http://michael-mannheimer.info/2011/12/02/die-deutschen-opfer-muslimischer-morder-niemanden-interessierts/

Don`t leave this Issue to the Neo Nazis,we should solve these problems quickly.But the first step would be to be honest,without this politically correctness.

If the police don't crack down on this escalating trend, then the people will do it themselves.

Sorry, Anny One, why do you quote xenophobic columnists? Is it how you intend to enlighten us with the "truth"? Is it how you want to be "honest"? Really?

We have been talking a lot about the NSU, for sure, but certainly not because they are the only German murderers who killed foreigners in the last decade! Are you out of your mind? The reason why the NSU murderers have been all over the press for the past year is because a gang of racist serial killers were allowed to go on a rampage for a decade, targeting businessmen and fathers who just happened to look "Mediterranean". Because of the huge failure from the German authorities in their task of protecting the public from such acts. NOT because these are the only 10 cases of murders by Germans. You need to get a grip, really, and to stop spreading such shameless lies published by rightwing blogs. The very conservative "Die Welt" published the figures of the Amadeu Antonio Foundation listing all murders committed by neo-nazis since the German reunification. The number stands at 181 now, of which 70 assassinations took place since 2000, and a third of the victims were foreigners. Is it how your blogger is being "honest"?

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article13725571/181-Todesopfer-durch-rechte-Gewalt-in-Deutschland.html

I agree, of course, that more Germans are probably victims of violent crimes committed by "immigrants" than the other way round, and even the total figure of 181 victims of extreme rightwing violence in 20 years' time is "low" if you put it in the perspective of an average of 900 murders committed in Germany every year.

Crime is a complex issue which won't go away overnight, and of course nobody should put their heads in the sand about some uncomfortable truths. But I suggest that those who preach for an "honest" step should put their own house in order and stop obfuscating us with their made-up reality.

AnneOne. Of course the majority of people attacked are German. The majority of people living in Germany are German. It is simply the law of probability at work here. Similarly Germans who murder are most likely going to murder other Germans due to the same mathematical chance as I have just mentioned.

Unrelated comment. When is someone going to finally tear down that ugly disgusting Soviet era radio tower??

@LecteurX - I tried to find a slightly more neutral source,believe me.

But whenever such Crimes happen, some people defend these acts with the actions of murderers like NSU Breivik.But many acts of this ethnic group have often the same motives (hate against the different),just the other way around.But it is very difficult to find such a statistic in some newspaper.Children, women, men, punks and cops, the homeless and lawyers,was also victims of this ethnic group.

If Germans had committed this murder, the next morning would be people there with flowers and candles and banners and TV Reporters at the former crime scene.As long as this does not happen in front of a security camera and the public.As long as something does not happen in front of a surveillance camera, and it will be published as long as it is accepted as a tragic incident.

By the way, Die Welt is not "very" conservative, compared to Anglo-Saxon newspapers but this is not bad issue.To tackle this problem under control, it is necessary to draw it in the public interest as well as with the Neo Nazis and the Motorcycle Clubs.

Well, I am back in the U.S. and boy do I miss Germany. As for the headline, well, if the judges would get tough and actually enforce the law, maybe a lot of this would stop. The same happens in the U.S. There are dirt bags all over the globe.

@belladons - Ha ha,think about the "First Amendment to the United States Constitution",and soon you will miss nothing.Think about the american culture of debating things and how they find common grounds.

Be glad, I envy you ;)

As Berlin fuer alles states the laws of probability played a part. So did the laws of utter lack of discipline in getting stone drunk play a part. And the gross incivility and mob mentality of those thugs played a part. And lax, literally weak German penalties for crime plays a part.

"belladonsí Yes, the wonderful American culture of debating things, like the most recent Vice Presidential and Presidential debates moderated by confirmed über left wing news wonks..... The upcoming Presidential debate moderator had Obama as a guest at her wedding. Hmmmm

In reality the American mainstream media is doing their level headed best to usurp the First Amendment rights of Americans by hiding the truth from them.

It makes me think of the German medias infinitesimal desire to dig up any and all remote possibilities of thesis plagiarism against their political opponents and nail them to their paper cross. One wonders what would happen if the news writers and senior managers lives were so exposed......

@ StoutViking

My Germany does not reduce itself on 1 or 2 genes that decide about the hair or skin color of a person. Germany that I believe in is more than "Hans und Peter", more then "Bock und Wurst", it is a rich cultural treasure and a place where people understand about the importance of brotherhood and tolerance.

In my Germany any person that dies is one person too much! Does it really matter if this person is German or foreign? Do you want to get killed when you go abroad?

The article you cited is a shame for Germany, for Goethe, for Beethoven, even for Bismark and Friedrich Wilhem. "Hochverräter", "Ethnozid", "Bio-Deutschen" -> disgusting Nazi-terminology!

When you sing the German national anthemn, do you realize its contents or are you just repeating the words without thinking about them?

It starts with "unity"!! -> unity among all German states, unity with brothers and sisters from Europe and all over the world.

People like you or the wirter of this article are reponsible for a smaller German community living in Germany, because educated open minded citizens will rather live in Turkey, China or any where else in the world than sharing a country with people who discrimnate other ethnics and cultures.

> Do you even realize that Beethoven composed a turkish march under "All people become brothers" in his famous 9th symphony?!! Why do you think he deicded to do so a few years after battles between turkish and austrian soldiers infront of Vienna?

Beethoven supported France and Napoleon although they were fighting against German troups! Why? Because he believed in a multinational educated world and was not caught in national borders that make you ignorant for other people.

Well everyone is very handily missing the real issue here, and that is the racism against Asians. Every group of people appears to look at themselves as superior to Asians, it is the one thing that Germans and Turks agree on.

I have seen it frequently, and while most people would never act upon the ingrained racism in a physically violent way, it is still a very dangerous thing, that racism against Asians is so acceptable.

@Harrow

I agree.

@ StoutViking

The article you cited complains about that Germans have "no more right to the land of their ancestors than the Pakistanis or the Nigerians"... -> what right do you want to have? -> The right do burn down an Indian restaurant because they came to this country later than you and your family (happened in Nazitown Fuerstenwalde)? Do you want the right to through foreigners onto the streets, even out of the country? -> What right are you guys talking about?

Dont hide yourself behind seemingly civilized phrases and programs. Speak it out!

Believe it or not: Yes, a Pakistani or Nigerian who comes to the country and buys a house, gets a job, maybe even a German wife and kids DOES HAVE THE SAME RIGHT TO LIVE IN GERMANY AS YOU AND ME!!!

You and me are not personally responsible for the Germany invasion of Poland, France and of the killing of 6 milion jews, but in the same way the foreigners living in Germany are not responsible for a few lunatics that run around and kill people, they are not responsible for your national Narcism and I believe its crucial to apreciate their presence, their efforts for the German state!

-> One day you will be thankfull when you are 80 years old, that you can afford your fake teeth that have been paid by the tax money of a citizen with Turkish background. And maybe you will even have beautifull Turkish nurse caring for you, but I doubt she will like the Nazi-tatoo that you or your article author might have on your shoulders!!!

@StoutViking - I looked at the police report you cited. Don't worry about the statistics, I cope very well.

The first thing I notice is the warning in the report that these are just raw numbers and, unlike the way you are using them, cannot be indicators of anything without understanding what lies behind. However, like you, I'll conveniently forget that and look at numbers.

So, the table on page 133 provides a breakdown of the number of suspects of all crimes by their nationality. We can compare this with the proportion living in Berlin with the demographics of wikipedia: Turkish suspects 5.8%, out of 5.5%; Polish 3.6%, 3%; Russian 0.9%, 3%...

Which actually, tells us that foreigners are probably not the problem. however, I suspect that you are not talking about foreigners but Germans of foreign decent. For the record, 80% of crime is generally committed by the poorest 20% of the population in just about every country. The country of grandfather's birth doesn't make a statistically meaningful number anywhere.

"...but I bet it's not an encounter with group of young Germans/Vietnamese/Jews/Hindus late at night in a dark street/u-bahn station that makes your ears perk in alert, does it?"

Who could you be talking about? Personally, I tend to fear the heavily tattooed, bike chain wielding gangs whatever their nationality. Though, I admit, I've only ever seen one and I'm sure they were really nice guys when you get to know them.

@grimbax

Reading comprehension much?

1. I'm not German. Just lived in Germany periodically.

2. If my ethnicity were a drink it would be "Long Island Ice Tea". (i.e. - many ingredients). I AM A RACIAL MINORITY, I just don't go apeshit whenever someone with my background (or partially mine) gets convicted of a crime yelling they're innocent and it's "prejudice". As matter of fact I even feel somewhat ashamed.

3. Where have I ever said the things you say I did? Forgot your pills this morning? I cited a police report - I DIDN'T WRITE IT. You can pack your placates and molotov bottles and express how "Nazi" you think it is at the nearest police station. BTW, it is just ONE REPORT. There are HUNDREDS of others, want to see or should I give you time to start a demo against the cheiff of state security?

4. And according to your govt., since 2006 I got "less right to live in Germany". You realize how infantile the idea of "anyone has right to live in Germany" is? Just bring in half the world's population to Germany, because you decided it's a "right". It's unrealistic. Go tell the BAMF they're Nazis and need to wash their critereas down the drain...

On the same notion, the reson so many people want to live in Germany, we first need to ask ourselves what makes Germany itself - and if it will still be Germany once the hosts are outnumbered? Will anyone still want to live there then?

Nothing wrong with immigration, but I believe every country has already got enough of its own delinquents, there's no need of import, so I'm all for deporting convicted immigrants. Why let them stay? They just give a bad name to the rest of them.

If you decide to immigrate (I prefer to repatriate...) to a different county, then you must accept its laws, language, social norms, etc., not to come in demands and change the society that took you in, and sadly this is what I see happening.

If you ran away from a backward country - don't turn your hosting one into another.

When I see an asylum seeker (swindler!) who been in the country since 2001, never worked a day since and gotten social housing and HARZ IV by the thousands, my blood boils, because my parents took up a job the week we arrived (not in Germany, elsewhere) and never relied on govt. handouts - not because there weren't any, but because it's shameless to demand them when you're healthy in body and mind.

Perhaps here lies the cultural/mentality difference. Some migrants think they arrived in a magic land where they're paid for merely existing and abuse the right for social care, whereas other people are taught to avoid needing it.

5. You're obviously suffering that of that "I need bend lower to prove everyone I'm not a Nazi" syndrome. Just mind you - we non-Germans (of any background) get these mixed feeling of pitty and ridicule over it.

It's been a year on 17.Sep.2011

In the Berlin underground at the weekend it has been another brutal attack.The 23-year-old Giuseppe M., son of an Italian restaurant owner was killed in Charlottenburg on the run from three attackers.

Two of the three,Ali K. and B. Baris, German with Turkish migration background are known by the police already for crimes like theft, robbery and several Serious injuries,both surrendered.

@StoutViking

Probably I was too fast in declaring you fascist. My apologies for that. However, the type of article that you and many others quoted is dangerous!

We cant fall for the tricks of these internet forums that promote separation and hatred! The page also writes: "For a long time now the Muslims have declared war." -> This is a racistic generalization and it tries to tell me that my neighbour Karim is my enemy, although I drank a beer with him and watched some German football match in tv with him one day before!

Btw. I am not bending lower, I'm just not running around with the nose up high into the air, feeling like a superior class. History teaches us better. And Europe does have honorable examples of integration and a cultural background that promotes an open minded position.

Throwing out criminal foreigner doesnt solve the problem. You have to question what is wrong in a comparebly rich society that it struggles so much to integrate foreigners from different backgrounds.

@grimbax

Quot:"Throwing out criminal foreigner doesnt solve the problem."

Of course, solves the problem, if they have become criminals,it would protect the Citizens.

Quot:"You have to question what is wrong in a comparebly rich society that it struggles so much to integrate foreigners from different backgrounds."

I hardly believe that the perpetrators were good students or workers or capable of killing him from financial frustration.Ask better if these people are sharing Western values and i do not mean cherriepicking.

Nowhere else in the World do you get a paid free apartment, free health insurance and monthly money,free Schools as in the north-west of Europe. How much should we still offer these people?

@grimbax

How is a police report dangerous? How is fact dangerous? Facts face us with reality. It is the refusal of politicans and others to face facts that brought us in this mess to begin with.

There isn't just a problem of integration. Oddly enough, the more tolerance the west showers migrants with, the less they are intended to integrate. This supports your statement that there were outstanding examples of integration in history - note "history". Never in history society was as lenient towards foreigners as it is today, so foreigners had to work twice as hard to prove themselves equal among equals.These days they don't feel obligated to integrate. And why should they? They'll get social housing, schooling, payments and insurances eitherway, and even have homegrown supporters to protest on their behalf, claiming integration is "cultural holocaust" and calling anyone who points at the problem "Nazi".

(Ever met a minority who hates Antifa? Now you have!).

I notice a surge in juridictional liniency these past few years, in many coutries officially excused as "Integrational Difficulty". I believe the late judge K. Heisig expanded on it in her book...

Never in history immigrats had came in demands from their hosts as they do today. If they're really refugees then kiss the ground you walk on and thank your hosts you're alive, instead of having violent clashes for not getting a 4 star hotel in middle of Berlin.

You need you choose between being supertolerant and if you want to allow the entarance of elements which are not tolerant to everything else western society stands for, like equal rights for women, religious freedom and tolerance towards sexual minorities.

Have you been ever called "S****ß Deutche"? You'll be the first I know. Except when this happens there are no screaming headlines, as opposed to if it were the other way around.

I'm sorry to inform you, but when the guests turns on the host - it becomes a parasite.

@StoutViking - Well said.

@grimbax - Have you been ever called "S****ß Deutche"? If not - You'll be the first I know.

I doubt your neigbhor is an "enemy", but be sure that in the eyes of many of his countrymen he is - for drinking alcohol and befriending an infidel such as yourself.

Was there a war declared? I don't know, you tell me. When mosques in Europe preach Jihad and there's many an ear to listen, when Salafists freely run the streets and have violent clashes with law enforcement, when law enforcement and social services need deal with "new problems" such as "Honor killings", Polygamy (basically officially marrying one woman, then marrying another in a religious cermon and have relations with her as well, tho she'll be registered as an unwed mother and get the social payments) and FGM... What do you think?

Do you want the local school caffeterias to stop serving pork?

Do you want the public pool to suddenly have segregated swimming times?

Do you want "no go areas"?

Do you want Sharia courts?

@StoutViking - Amen brother!