Published: 6 Apr 12 17:18 CET | Print version
Updated: 6 Apr 12 17:51 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20120406-41799.html
German Nobel literature laureate Günter Grass hit back Thursday at what he called a "campaign" by critics of his poem accusing Israel of plotting Iran's annihilation and threatening world peace.
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Your comments about this article:
AM I ALOWED TO SAY THIS
Israel has said it is keeping all options open for responding to Iran's nuclear programme, which it says is aimed at securing nuclear weapons, posing an existential threat to the Jewish state.
NOW LET'S REVERSE IT
Iran has said it is keeping all options open for responding to Israel's nuclear programme, which it says is aimed at securing MORE nuclear weapons, posing an existential threat to the Iranian state.
There is nothing troublesome in what you have written, from my perspective, though I am in accord with France, Britain, the USA, etc. that Iran must not be allowed to have nuclear weapons.
Anyhow, Gunter is 84 and probably anti-Jewish in his core given his education and SS involvement during his youth. It is easy to imagine he spent 50 years wrestling with it (as we all wrestle with our inner biases) and probably succumbed and wrote his poem. Now he is taking a beating. Freedom of speech goes both ways.
Those fortunate enough to have escaped Nazi terror, and their descendants have contributed economically and culturally more to the western world than any other group of refugees in human history. Now the Jews have their own country, can anyone blame them for arming themselves to the teeth, given the corruption misgovernment, maladministration and human rights abuse in most of the countries that border Israel?
Iran is led by militant Islamists whose leader has vowed to wipe Israel from the face of the earth. Yet, Guenter Grass, in his geriatric wisdom, sees more danger from Israel than Iran. In Britain we called it being blinkered!
How would we measure Jewish WWII refugees' and their descendants' contribution to economics and culture so that we could objectively conclude "[They] have contributed more than any other group of refugees in human history?"
I agree in principle and fact with most of what you write but the problem with this, and most blogs, is folks speak in platitudes and hyperbole with no facts to support their statements.
If he's been following the media coverage of Israel, he should have known that accusations of anti-semitism are the automatic reaction of many of Israel's supporters to any form of criticism. People usually take accusations of racism very seriously, but these accusations have become so tedious that hardly anyone takes any notice of them any more.
There's nothing surprising either that Netanyahu would react by telling lies that Iran "calls for Israel's destruction" and "threatens the destruction of other states". No Iranian leader has ever said any such thing, but these quotes keep on getting repeated in the western media without any journalist checking to see if they are true.
The more interesting thing is that Gunter feels he has a right to express his opinion, which he more/less does have.
But then, when others express theirs, he is "stung" and "being pilloried."
If you can't tolerate the heat, get out of the kitchen, Gunter.
You must also remember that without US support, Israel would not exist, they are there to create division in the middle east, "Divide and Conquer" remember.
Israel is the 51st state of America.
I also noticed that not one writer here mentioned the Palestinian atrocities. Israel is not Jewish run, it is Zionist controlled. Netanyahu is a thug, always has been and always will be.
The rhetoric about Iran exactly follows the Iraq rhetoric after 9/11, it is exactly the same, no real evidence, using dictatorship and a threat to Israel as an excuse to kill another 1,000,000 people in an another unjust war to keep the U$ oil monopoly so that the west won't be reliant on the Middle East countries to dictate to us through withholding oil, and so that petro dollars always remain U$.
In case you don't know, the sweetheart deal America has with the OPEC countries is that "we'll leave you alone as long as you don't sell oil for anything other than U$. And we all stay silent because we want to drive around in our flashy cars. Saddam and Gaddafi were trying to sell oil for other currencies, and they paid the price. Because we can't be left with no oil to run our materialistic culture we have built in the west.
Remember that the only country posing any nuclear threat in the middle east is Israel, they are the only country with nuclear capabilities, and they are the ones talking the toughest talk.
You will learn much from the following www.JewsAgainstZionism.com Jews in general are wonderful humane people, but they are being bombarded daily with Zionist propaganda, Zionism is a not a race, or a religion it is an ideology, an extremist one at that. Join the dots.
There has never been a Palestine state!! in history, as such.
So, to my question...:
The total amounts of the Arab states are about some 11 millions of square kilometres; so......how come that the Arabs do not share this vast amount of lands, with their very own families; the so-called Palestinians; the Arabs (Palestine-Arabs)???
Israel is half the size of Denmark, with the tiny piece in comparison at aprox 22 thousands square kilometres.....
Isn't it time they begin to learn how to share; see the Bible about sharing....
Israel is of course in its full right to defend itself.
Ask those - few - Hitler-survivors, if they think they should listen to "advices" one more time!!!
The Iranian leadership often attacks what it calls the "zionist regime" but these comments get twisted beyond recognition to give the impression that Iran wants to use nukes to cause another holocaust. The most famous example of this is the claim that Ahmedinajad wants to "wipe Israel off the map". Anyone can google to find out what he really said.
If any Iranian really did express any threat to destroy Israel, I'm sure that the Israeli government or its western supporters would quote it in full in quotation marks and give it widespread coverage.
Now, I'll mention it was Menachem Begin built and detonated the first car bomb in the middle east, the Israeli nuclear facilities are not subject to the IAEA inspections, and the Sephardic Jew is an extinct species in Arab countries because of Israeli behaviors (80,000 Sephardic Jews lived in Cairo in 1948, now they are less than 500 elderly) and those Sephardic Jews who immigrated to Israel are 2nd class citizens. On the other hand, Tehran's Jewish community, although somewhat reduced in numbers, is intact, while Israel is forcing their own Bedouin Arab citizens out of their historic communities south of Jerusalem.
Meanwhile there has been a string of Israeli corruption cases over the past decade that compares to Silvio Berlusconi. And recently the Israeli aligned right wing in the USA has fallen to the ludicrous new low of calling anti-zionist Jews who dare to criticize Israeli policy 'anti-semitic.'
Meanwhile no one seems to be all that much bothered by the biggest holocaust in world history .. the holocaust experienced by women .. still ongoing by the way-
You might include a link making your point. It makes the dialgue more informative and objective. I did find what you are referring to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel
It seems like the much-referenced "wipe Israel off the map" is indeed a mis-interpretation (though not intentionally). I'm sure that living in Germany you have probably misinterpreted things, assuming you are not native German.
However, Iran has said many other things. Anyhow, I welcome anyone to view the link. Nav B is correct but there is much more to the story.
That said, there will be realists and naifs in this world. My objective has always been to remain a realist but avoid becoming a cynic. Iran's behaviour in relation to developing nuclear energy is simply not in keeping with a power interested only in peaceful use of it:
1. Iran has the 4th biggest oil reserves on the planet. So you're sitting on an ocean of oil, but you urgently need nuclear power....why?
2. If Ahmadinnejhad is only developing electricity generation, why hide all the sites underground and up mountains?
3. Iran gets 1600+ hours of high sunlight every year. Solar power generally would be infinitely cleaner, quicker and cheaper.
No my friends, little Maahmous is making bomb factories: that is, after all, what has career has been largely about. For he is a fanatic.
By the way, Mahmoud will be history in Iran very soon - but those behind are, if anything, even worse.
This is a great site by the way. Happy Easter to all - schlaf gut...und sei nett zu einander!
Günter Grass was not a Nazi. He was a 17-year-old conscript during the end of the war, served in a Panzer battalion and never fired a shot. The glib and utterly false assertion that everyone who served in the German military in World War II was a Nazi is idiotic. Sixteen and seventeen-year-old boys didn't have an option once conscripted. Günter Grass was one such boy. His anti-Nazi novel "The Tin Drum" is a recognized classic of 20th century literature and could not have been written by a Nazi or former Nazi.
As for the criticism now leveled at him for his poem, I find the conflation between legitimate criticism of the Zionist regime in Israel and anti-Semitism particularly offensive. I invite you to read Noam Chomsky's "Fateful Triangle" for a better understanding of the machinations of the State of Israel over the years and defy you to characterize Mr. Chomsky, a Jewish scholar of linguistics and history, as an anti-Semite.
Mr. Grass got it right in his poem, regardless of one's opinion of the poetic value of the work. Someone had better speak up before it's too late, and the thin-skinned Israelis who cannot bear the slightest criticism would do well either to pay attention or to develop a thicker skin, because the nation of Israel is rapidly becoming a pariah and the whole world knows it. Günter Grass is one of the few in the West with the courage to acknowledge it.
I wrote that Jewish refugees from Nazism had contributed more than any other group of refugees 'to the western world' in human history, so I did restrict the geographical area and the narrow period of history which created them. Can you think of any other group of refugees who have contributed more than the Jews? The Hugenots certainly contributed much to my own country, England, and if one considers that the poor of Europe who sought a new life in America were also 'refugees' iin the wider sense, then they might be larger in number, Certainly the Irish who fled to America have made a considerable mark in all fields in America. However, the mammoth contribution made by ethnic Jews who fled Nazism and their descendants is in a class of its own. I have no figures, only seventy years of personal observations of what Jews from across Europe have contributed, apart from commerce: music, science, the arts, philosophy, hi-technology, mathematics, media, medicine, law... can you think of any other ethnic group of refugees who could have contributed more?
Arguably true, but what does that have to do with the Netanyahu regime's clear intention to start an unnecessary war with Iran? No one is disparaging Jews here, or discounting their enormous contribution to world culture, but that has no bearing at all on the current politics of the State of Israel. Is Israel somehow immune to legitimate criticism for its actions? More than half of the Israeli population is also opposed to military action against Iran. Are these Israeli Jews anti-Semites?
Israel has at least 300 nuclear warheads and no other country in the region has even one. Iran poses absolutely no existential threat to Israel and both the Israeli and US governments know it.
Much has been written about about the adverse affects of Israel's nuclear arsenal on its neighbours but it also seems to have a negative effect at home. In the various tussles between moderates and hard-liners it appears to take away one of the chief moderate arguments - balance. Common moderate reasoning strives to maintain balance which is irrelevant when one is impregnable. So the hard-liners win far more often than one would expect in a country of moderates.
This parallels the discussion in Europe about missile shields. Appearing a little vulnerable might not only reduce aggression from outside but also from within.
How many rapes of women did MUSLIMS commit in Norway, in Denmark, in Sweden, in UK, answer: MANY!!
How many drug-dealers are JEWS in Norway, in Denmark, in Sweden, in UK, answer: NONE!!
How many drug-dealers are MUSLIMS in Norway, in Denmark, in Sweden, in UK, answer: MANY!!
How many daughters did MUSLIMS murder, in Norway, in Denmark, in Sweden, in UK, answer: MANY!!
How many daughters did JEWS murder, in Norway, in Denmark, in Sweden, in UK, answer: NONE!!
How many gangs roaming streets are JEWS, in Norway, in Denmark, in Sweden, in UK, answer: NONE!!
How many gangs roaming streets are MUSLIMS, in Norway, in Denmark, in Sweden, in UK, answer: SEVERAL!!
How many JEWS, are jailed in Norway, in Denmark, in Sweden, in UK, answer: NONE!!
How many MUSLIMS, are jailed in Norway, in Denmark, in Sweden, in UK, answer: about
70 %!!
How many assaults in the streets of Norway, Denmark, Sweden, UK, did JEWS do? answer; NONE!!!
How many assaults in the streets of Norway, Denmark, Sweden, UK, did MUSLIM do? answer; MANY!!!
That's the funniest gag I've heard all week. Thanks for that, Tommy.
but when a person ask the questions and then answers them with either ,none or many the validity is questionable at best.
Where would one obtain these questionable facts?
There is certainly a reason for us to worry if that land declare it wish to wipe us out and on the same time develop Nuclear Power. Israel allways said it will not be the first to use non conventional weapon and also is not minnancing the exsistence of other countries in the middle east,I can easly understand that Mr. Grass worry from Nuclear war,nobody think to reach such horrible point and I do think the sanctions on Iran do a good service.I believe Netanyaho will not attack Iran as it can harm the American interests in the regionand all this talking is to push Iran with Diplomatic ways to the angle.It is also true that many people in Israel do not support a military actions against Iran and also many military experts here do believe it will be succssesful just for a short time,and will create destabilisation in the middle east,any way Mr.Grass use the"anti nuclear Darmm" unneccesserly as nobody here believe Israel will attack Iran and if it will do such act ,it will use just conventional weapons.
freedom of speech
The war is over but you do not pay as a German to Israel to finance its secuirity needs.You pay compensations to Holaucaust surviviours whom the Nazies took their houses , forced them from their homes ,killed their parents sisters and brothers and now the are living in Israel old and sick,with the pension you pay them they can buy their medicens and their food and get health treatment once a year,
"Israel has nuclear weapon and "says it wants to attack Iran" no Sir, Iran threaten to wipe us from the earth, we have here nothing against Iran or the Iranian people, but Ahmed El Najar said it clearly"Israel must be eliminate and the Jews must go back to Europe" even Kanz. Merkel reacted on his declarations.
Now the bed news for you-we are not going to return to Europe and we shell defend ourselves in case Iran will do the wrong step, as I know our capacities I advice Ahmed El Najar not to gamble with his country.
And by the way, forget the BS about moderate muslims, if you look at the Quran you should quickly see there's no such animal--they all take it absolutely literally. Grow up, you leftist traitors!
It has long, long ago been debunked that Iran has said it wants to wipe Israel off the map. That you continue to spout such codswallop reveals who the real chump is.
That Bibi is quoted above as saying, "It is Iran, not Israel, which presents a threat to the world's peace and security. It is Iran, not Israel which threatens the destruction of other states." is further proof of the misrepresentation at play here. If this were so then it would have been Iran which invaded Lebanon and occupied it. It would have been Iran which promised in 2006 to "bomb Lebanon back into the stone-age." It would be Iran threatening again to wipe Lebanon off the map. But it's Israel who did these things, and who is making that threat again, just two weeks ago even.
It would have been Iran which committed crimes against humanity live on television by operation Cast Lead, and subsequent raids on a caged population in Gaza. But, it's Israel who did this, and continues to this day. Not Iran. Dr. Norman Finkelstein has even said, "There was no war in Gaza. It was a massacre." He's hardly an anti-Semite, now is he?
If we want to talk "Chumps" here, then I say that it is the US which gets that prize. Milked dry for it's 'special relationship,' and too unaware and uninformed to understand that its special friend attacked has it deliberately now at least three times; the Lavon affair; the USS Liberty and the real pie in the eye, 9/11. Bibi was asked about 9/11 and his answer was, "It's very good. For Israel."
I've read Mr. Grass' poem several times now, and I cannot see a single dot or comma that I would change. He's hit the nail on the head. After WWII the German people were accused of complicity in the atrocities which were committed by a few. The question posed was, "Where were the good Germans?" Well, one good German should be celebrated today, and his name is Gunther Grass. And the fact that he's generated this hullaballoo means he's come too close to the truth for some people to handle!
1.President Ahmed El Najar did say Israel must be eliminated from the map, our ambassdor in the UN did apply the UN secuirity council against Iran minnance.
2.Iran support milirarly and financially Hezballa and Hamas, the 2 terrorists organisations fired hunders of rockets on our civilian population in north and south Israel.Israel stoped that aggression that went for many years first with the second Lebanon war and the second with operation cast lead. since then we got a silence on our northen border , and incomplete silence on the southern border.
3. Israel withdrown still in Sharon time all its settlers and army from Gazza strip, what did we got? more missles firing from there on our villages.
4.Iran support terrorists acts against Jews all over the world even if they are not Israelies:the Jewish community building in Argentina,Habad house in INDIA.
5.BIBI HAS NEVER SAID THE 9/11 WAS GOOD FOR iSRAEL BUT THE ARABS DANCED IN THE STREETS WHEN IT HAPPENED,that it is well documented.
6.The liberty affair ,it happened before 45 years that was a tragedy and an non intentional mistake , both countries conduced investigations about it, Ameica would have never accepted to close the issue if it would be intentionly. the sailors and families were compensated
Just "a few Germans were involved in the atrocities" just not true , all the Germans were involved in all fields ,the army, the police, the governments offices,the train drivers, the Proffesors in the University,the lawyers ,the Judges
the school teachers, the industrie mangers everybody contribute his small part in persequiting and killing the Jews.
In reply: Who is El Najar? If you refer to the current President of Iran, then this was his exact statement, translated: "The occupation regime over Jerusalem should vanish from the page of time." Frankly, the entire thinking world agrees. problem? No.
Israel finances and arms terrorists worldwide. Just different groups. To some "freedom fighters" to others "terrorists." Your invective is subjective and without evidence at best. Problem? No.
Gaza: Israeli troops left, and moved illegal settlers from Gaza, so they would not be killed in operation Cast Lead. By Sharon's own admission. Most of the rockets sent from Gaza and Lebanon are fired by Israelis dressed as Palestinians. Fact. Problem? No.
Iran has the biggest concentration of Jews outside of Israel and the US. They are guaranteed rights that Palestinians or non-Jewish Israelis only dream of. They themselves say "Only stupid people live in Israel!" Problem? No,
From Haaretz April 11 2012: "The Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv on Wednesday reported that Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu told an audience at Bar Ilan university that the September 11, 2001 terror attacks had been beneficial for Israel. "We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor."" Problem? No.
The USS Liberty has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, a legal requirement for conviction in the US, that it was deliberate, and a provocation to make the US think it was being attacked by Egypt. Documents filed by Israeli officials with John McCain's father, who covered the whole thing up, support this. Problem? No.
Just a few Germans were involved in what happened to "you." 95% of Germans had nothing to do with it. Verifiable fact. Problem? No.
Regarding school teachers etc. as you so fumblingly assert, I cannot comment as I am neither German nor of an age to have experienced this. You do not supply historical references and your written text is hardly legible. I would conclude as follows: You are writing from conviction, there is no doubt. But, what you think you know just ain't so. It is clear that you have been prevented from having access to independently verified information. In that regard you are just as much a victim of Netanyahu et al's propaganda as the Palestinians are. Sad. Problem? Hell, yes!