Published: 28 Mar 12 14.03 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20120328-41609.html
The young black German whose refusal to show police his ID led to a court ruling that cops could use skin colour as a criteria for spot-checks, says he will fight the case all the way.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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Your comments about this article:
We know how the editors of The Local feel about this story when they use the word "victim" in the title of this piece. He was nothing of the sort no matter how hard he tries to play the victim card. Congratulations to both the court and the police and to the government that instituted this profiling policy of immigration control. Lets see if they have to back down when the politically correct outcry over this case reaches its crescendo as manufactured by the left.
I'm pleased for you that you have obviously lived a life without ever having been discriminated against on the basis of how you look, but at least try to imagine what it must be like to have to deal with something like that on a daily basis.
@boopsie - so it's not possible for a black person to be German, and all illegal immigrants are easily identifiable because they're the ones that aren't white? Whether you think immigration laws are too relaxed or not (they're not, in my not-humble-at-all opinion), picking random foreign-looking people over non-foreign-looking people doesn't really seem to be a well thought-out solution, now does it?
People like you two, and like those policement and that judge, make me feel sick, and like I don't want to live Germany any more.
if the black man thought in another way. " I look foreign and there are so many illegal immigrants who just looks like me and shall help the police with their duty by showing the ID card".
and if the police introduced to the man in another way. " Hi how are you, can i see your ID" . If he don"t intend to show the ID to anyone why should he carry it. I guess police introduced in a ice way. German police is one of the best behaving officials in the continent as far as i know ( I am not an immigrant though, just a south Asian guest worker :)P ). Its all about perceptions of the police and of the guy. Sometimes what you say is not what matters, what other one understood is what matters, period.
I'm only a person who thinks in a pragmatical way.
You are free to leave Germany and go elsewhere.
You can imagine the facial reaction of the people sitting at the other side ; like oh is he a terrorist or something. My wife gave out my id because she was keeping it and the police had to make a call and say out my name so loud for everyone in the train to hear.
If a police have to check me without any justification and if there is one, for me been black, then I will also say it reminds me of the SS by the Nazi's.
@joysonabraham I understand your comments because you probably never got checked. I was the only one in the cabin who was checked though I saw other ''foreign looking'' persons in the cabin including Asians.
"German Tourists and everybody else understands and respects this law while in my country of residence. I have yet to hear a German or any other tourist accuse anyone of Racism over it."
Thank you derExDeutsche and I would certainly be one of them.
Whenever there's a South Asian or Black person in the same carriage, they always get controlled and I always get skipped. Not even a glance.
I doubt it .
Interesting sub note in Belgium the police will NOT allow British immigration officers to inspect I.D. or tickets on the train to the U.K. even though it does have only on stop before it goes into the channel tunnel and next stop after that is London.Thus any illegal can enter the U.K. on this route and is also a danger with such a "easy " target for a terrorist act as the tunnel.
Another typical anti-German and racist comment here on thelocal.de .
We are talking about illegal immigration - every state in the world has the right to defend its borders against illegal immigrants. In order to find out whether someone could be an illegal immigrant or not you have to check her or his papers. When she or he shows you her or his passport it's all fine, but in the case she or he does not show you the papers there is the possibility of her or him being an illegal immigrant. Everyone coming to Germany has to know that you should always keep your passport/visa with you - in case of having one it's all fine and the police will just say thank you and go by.
And yes, I've been checked traveling to and from Germany on the train before. Doesn't feel nice because it feels like your presumed guilty until proven innocent, but I also think their doing their job. If the same verdict were to occur in areas other than illegal immigration and border control, I'd bet we'd see a whole different reaction, both in the news and on this very forum.
I agree with everything you said, but I'm still a little confused about the correlation between skin colour and legal status.
When the black student answered, 'I'm going back to my seat... ' instead of Frankfurt or Kassel, of course the policeman felt mocked at. I personally find the answer rather stupid.
Germany is not yet a true melting pot and I suppose they don't want to be .. so such steps are necessary before they become UK or US. And since the beginning of time, the whites are always the elites, these are facts that we cannot change.... look at Asians and even Africans lightening their skin .. what does that tells us??
Not all Africans bleach and not all Europeans tann. Its a matter of prefence, you got it all wrong
Some people just carry a big chip on their shoulder and play the blame game at every opportunity.
You supremacistic idiot.
Seriously the quality of comments on this website is going down the drain.
Please don't make inane comments just because you can't face and/or won't admit to the facts. It confuses people who don't know any better. Thanks.
Since there was an admission made in court that the person was specifically targeted because he was black, how can you assert that the incident had "nothing to do with racism"? I was a prima facie exercise in racial profiling, which is de facto racism.
Do you leave here in Germany? If so, you're clearly an immigrant who believes that white immigrants are fine but immigrants of color should be subject to invidious discrimination. If you don't live here, what's your dog in this hunt? As an immigrant, I'm curious about these matters.
you need your head examined. you are not funny. you do not entertain me.
and if you really mean what you say about racism, you are very sick indeed.
what is it that troubles you, psychologically, that you need to write these things?
maybe you should find another paper to read and stay off the Local.
Europeans are the only ones who are not allowed to have any racist tendencies.
The principle of racial profiling by the police in germany has nothing to do with xenophobia and everything to do with enforcing immigration law. Blacks are more likely as a group to have immigration issues in germany than whites.
If you are an immigrant in germany Prufrock2010 you should show a bit more gratitude for a generally tolerant society here. Immigration screws the workingman by cheapening the price of labor so one can see how many of them might resent your presence here. One wonders why folks like yourself who seem to have a bit of education don't choose to remain at home where help with the huge social and health issues are sorely needed.
You did write, however, that "Blacks are more likely as a group to have immigration issues in germany than whites."
Do you have credible data to support that statement? What do you mean by "immigration problems?" Are you referring to "assimilation problems" or crime? Are you unaware of problems in Germany created by immigrants from Russia, Serbia, Croatia, Romania, Poland, Czech Republic, Belarus, Bulgaria, Turkey and a whole host of other countries, the populations of which are white? I perceive your argument is not one of immigration problems, but of race.
Then you wrote: "Immigration screws the workingman by cheapening the price of labor so one can see how many of them might resent your presence here. One wonders why folks like yourself who seem to have a bit of education don't choose to remain at home where help with the huge social and health issues are sorely needed."
Since you know nothing about me, let me say this: Germany IS my home. It's my adopted home. I am here because the place I used to call home is the embodiment of the racist views you represent. I prefer to live in a multicultural society. The place I used to call home, which I suspect is the place you still call home, is not about to embrace such concepts. If anything, it is becoming more racist by the day. And as for taking work away from Germans, I can assure you that my work here has put more Germans to work at well-paying jobs than it has deprived others of work. I'm a legal resident here and, on occasion, a job creator. I pay taxes here. I contribute to society here, and enjoy being part of the social fabric that encompasses all races and nationalities. May I ask the same of you and expect an answer this time?
The country I come from is beyond repair. Germany isn't. At least it isn't unless it adopts policies such as those you advocate.
Now that you're here you may be putting a few germans to work but a german in your job could do the same unless you have very special skills no other german has. You may have job experience but you are robbing a german of his chance to gather job experience and you are denying that experience to the country of your birth. Thats a lose - lose proposition the way I see it.
And sorry, no you may not expect the same of me and you will not get an answer. My personal information has no bearing on the validity of my opinions.
With your befuddled resentment and strange self serving logic I hope stay in germany. Now you're their problem.
The cheap foreign labor you decry -- would that be coming exclusively from black African countries (which would account for your racist comments) or predominantly from eastern European countries (which would speak more to your overall xenophobia)? I can certainly understand how many in this forum would be nervous about some foreigner coming in and threatening their menial semi-skilled jobs, but an urbane and sophisticated immigrant such as you should not feel the least bit threatened by such factors, particularly after living and thriving in Germany for more than 20 years. That you encourage lesser minds to reject multiculturalism while taking heart from the white supremacist rants on these threads is disappointing, to say the least. A global sophisticate like you must surely know that multiculturalism is here to stay, and you should be enriched rather than threatened by it. I know I am.
You're right though that I am fairly well traveled and if I've garnered any sophistication along the way its taught me that contrary to the PC line run in the mainstream media multiculturalism is not interesting except for immigrants that desperately want to raise their stand of living by immigrating to a place where mostly they don't and don't want to fit in. So they become an anchor that drags down western civilization into the swamp of and political and religious ignorance. Cheap labor is a very high price to pay for the economic, educational and social liability that results. My child's class is retarded by the immigrant children who can neither speak nor write german and whose parents have cultural values that have nothing to do with ours. It will be many years before these people's productivity to society outweighs the disruption and the costs.
Why should german people have to put up with these phenomenon? German is not a traditional immigrant destination like the US (whose citizens in places like Arizona are now discovering that enough is enough). Its business that profits from cheap labor and the folks in charge don't think the downside effects them because they live in protected communities. So the quality of life for the rest of us suffers, if you don't count the doner stands.
I not a racist by any means, I'm a culturalist. I hope my comments on this forum might give some courage to readers who have noticed the problems and who might be persuaded to say and vote that enough is enough.
My previous posts were by no means disingenuous. Your attitudes are one-hundred percent reflective of the worst of American society, as you have just confirmed with your laudatory comments about Arizona's policies. It wasn't until you volunteered that you have been living in Germany for more than 20 years that the irony occurred to me. I just have to ask: doesn't it make you crazy, as a right wing American, to be living for 20 years in a socialist country? Doesn't it infuriate you, as an immigrant, to send your children to school to be educated with other immigrants' children? I see your dilemma. I feel your pain. The future has caught up with you and has passed you by. That must be a very lonely place.
Don't think our culture is so hot? Try having a heart transplant in a middle eastern country. Think western culture shouldn't be the dominant one in europe? Check out how most arabs severely restrict their women in public life. Perhaps you would prefer chinese culture with its contempt for democracy, human rights and personal freedom? Shall I go on (and on)?
Favoring Arizona's strict policy apprehending illegal aliens makes me racist and xenophobic? Thats a bit of a stretch even for you. Or perhaps you're an open borders kind of guy? Luckily the present government doesn't feel that way. Yet.
I hate to disillusion you but germany is a capitalistic country and most germans accept the primacy of western culture without question. The school situation is an annoyance but we think special tutoring is a good solution. Too bad the poor immigrant kids that need help the most and their parents are not interested. Why should they be interested when they despise our society as godless and unclean. These kids are the future of a lower class of german and when they get older they will drag the rest of germany down with them if they can. So much for the future.
You should give thanks every day Prufrock2010 that you are lucky to live in western civilization. If you don't think its culture is the best, why not move to a culture you like better? With you myopic view of reality you may very well fit right in elsewhere, say Nigeria or Haiti (watch out for them zombies!).
Or maybe you should just stick around for a few years until Sharia law is adopted throughout europe. With the increasing muslim population you shouldn't have too long to wait.
I've lived in Germany since 1989 and have never been checked for an ID that often - not least because I'm white - but I'd be royally pissed off if I'd been subject to that many ID checks. I suggest that any normal human being, irrespective of colour, would be pissed off, too - it's just human nature.
I also suspect that most of the people commenting here are also white, so obviously we have no idea what it feels like to be checked for ID so often.
Let's just call a spade a spade - it is telling of a culture's mentality if they think it's ok to stop random people because they don't "look German" i.e. Germans don't yet see the multi-culturalism of their country.
In my experience as a tall, blue-eyed, lanky white guy, even I experience the xenophobia that permeates German society. As soon as people hear my not-so-strong-at-all accent when speaking (near perfect) German, people switch to horrible English. I kindly tell them I've been here 6 years and there's no need for English as they aren't doing anyone a favour. Or people are noticeably less friendly upon figuring out I'm foreign. This is a dubious claim however because I live in Berlin where the people aren't exactly known for their polite manners or hospitality.
The longer I live here the more I see the benefit in taking a German with you to any appointment at a government office. It always just goes more smoothly. Hmmm, wonder why... argue all you want but for me I have the empirical evidence to draw such a conclusion.
When you take a country like Canada, who have embraced the concept, and apply this story there, it would definitely be considered racism.
Because it is. Dress it up however you want to, or justify it however you see fit, doesn't change the fact that it's blatant racial profiling. The policeman even admitted that the check took place on this basis.
And on a practical level, what illegal immigrant can easily afford a Deutsche Bahn ticket? :-)
Another question I'd put forth is to all the people saying the person is whining and playing the victim card - have you ever been in a position like this 25yr old student ON A REGULAR BASIS? Maybe then you'd have some understanding of where he's coming from.