Published: 13 Sep 11 08:03 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20110913-37551.html
As preparations are finalised for Pope Benedict XVI’s visit to Germany at the end of the month, a number of MPs have declared they will boycott his speech to parliament.
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Your comments about this article:
Am I being too naive in thinking that that is actually the current state? Hmmm. Possibly.
freechoice. Islamic countries - like those in the middle East - don't separate church and state. Still think that's good? Sure you got your facts right?
Why did he not have to give up his German citizenship when he became head of a sovereign state namely the Vatican state.
I hope no religious leader is allowed to speak in any elected Parliament again.
@LancashireLad
Yes you are being naive ,all infant schools are Church run at least in my town ,
also you can discriminate in the job market on the grounds of religion .
You also have to opt out of church tax .
German is far from secular sadly.
Germany is *officially* secular. I asked my question for the very reasons you quote. However, I don't take your point about the infant schools - do you mean "Grundschule", by the way?. In my son's school we were given the choice of "Catholic, Evangelisch or Ethik" but the school itself is state, not church. I don't know of any Catholic schools near us near Munich but admittedly I didn't go looking.
I would like to say I am surprised at discrimination on grounds of Religion being allowed - but again that would probably be naive. I also wonder if you are confusing "can" with "happens anyway". That would be something different.
You don't have to opt out of church tax if your are not Catholic or Evangelisch, so Muslims, Judaists, Shintoists, Bhuddists, etc. - they don't have to pay (I remain to be corrected on this). It took me a while to get the civil servants to understand this when I first registered as I am C of E which is not covered.
Germany is *officially* secular, but I agree totally that in reality it is far from it.
The church does have far too much say in everyday life here in my opinion. However, I disagree with some of your examples.
You cannot discriminate in the job market unless the organization concerned is a religious one. A catholic cannot complain if he's refused a job in a mosque - but, that is the same in every country. For all other organizations you cannot select staff or treat staff differently depending on religion and you (organization principals) are responsible for ensuring there is no bullying or other unpleasant environment.
Opting out of church tax is actually the default. In most companies, all companies I know, they make it very clear that you don't need to tell them your religion at all but if you do it will go into the statistics used to audit religious discrimination. They also point out that there is the opportunity to pay church donations at source (no messy tax reclaims) but it is entirely your choice and there is no compulsion. Some companies also do the same for some charities. It is a shame it is called church 'tax' because it is actually a service to make life easier for people. I have heard that some churches pressure their congregations into using this facility but that is between you and your chosen road to the afterlife. Nothing to do with Germany.
I was at the Vatican a couple of months ago, highly recommend a visit.
@The-ex-pat....Bet your a real blast at a party. Completely miserable sod you are.
lol, you should see me at a wedding reception.
If this was a gay minister, and the CSU, CDU, and/or FDP walked out or did not attend, there would be an uproar of how intolerant they are. But, when the opposite occurs, they walk out and reflect how intolerant they really are. Talk about showing your true self. Actions speak louder than words.
Whether you a a religious practitioner or not, the role it has played in making our society work as well as it does, should not be underestimated.
I love it when detractors want to talk about the Crusades as an example of Christian barbarism, it's very hard to talk about it in a modern context with any degree of truth that is!
I have no issue with people who don't believe and don't want to be a part of any organized mainstream religion, but I do have a problem with the "tolerant" crowd who never fail to show their intolerance for the many who choose to be a practicing Christian or Jew.