February 9, 2012
Published: 6 Sep 10 10:40 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100906-29633.html
A court on Monday handed lengthy jail sentences to two teens for the murder of businessman Dominik Brunner on a Munich commuter train platform almost one year ago.
DDP/DPA/The Local (news@thelocal.de)
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Your comments about this article:
Yes, it does seems that German law doesn't seem to make offenders pay a price for taking a life. I guess the value of life isn't very high to Germans.
They didn't kill him.
The sentences are fair.
Did the experts also opine about causation? Would Brunner have suffered cardiac arrest had he not been assaulted?
Where I come from the actions of the assailants would be classified as felony murder and they would be looking at life in the joint, which I believe would be a fair sentence.
Then people say its only immigrants that cause wide spread violence
There is a big difference between causing someone's death on purpose and causing someone's death due to an assault which is not intended to kill. The first crime is murder properly, while the second is homicide. Both of them constitute of course punishable offenses, but the sentences applied to them can't be the same. Not only the result but also the intention must be taken into account.
@ DinhoPilot
As far as I'm concerned, this is not about xenophobia.
Not where I come from. In most American states, including California where I practiced, if someone (even an accomplice) dies during the commission of a felony (such as the crime in question here), it is charged as felony murder and is punishable as either first or second degree murder. The defendant's intention to kill, or lack of it, is irrelevant.
Apparently Germany deals with these crimes another way, and much too leniently, in my view.
The crime happened in Germany, not in California.
In Germany, if the death is a negligent consequence of an intended act of violence, it is classified as "Körperverletzung mit Todesfolge" (i.e., "Infliction of bodily harm with deadly outcome"), according to the section 227 of the Penal Code.
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGB_000P227
Too leniently according to the American legal point of view. But your system fails at one point: the intention of the criminal is irrelevant. And that's a mistake. If I had punched somebody after being insulted by my victim, accidentally killing him, and receiving the same sentence than someone responsible for a criminal action intended to kill the victim, I'd be very uspset.
By the way, do you really think that your system is more able than the German one to make criminal offenders to reconsider what they want to do with other people (i.e., commit a crime)? I guess that as a practicer you should know that things don't work in that way... Just compare criminal statistics.
I'm not suggesting that the American system is superior or inferior to the German system, merely that it is different. The American system is not intended to be remedial. It is intended to be punitive. The criminal statistics that you refer to are not instructive or enlightening. Probably the most relevant statistics would be the respective rates of recidivism of violent criminals who are convicted, imprisoned and eventually released. I don't have those statistics, but I suspect that Germany's rate is better than America's. That said, people who kill other people during the commission of a felony should be put in prison for a very long time. That's what prisons are for.
I understood what the American system has established. I just commented my point of view, which is that it is not comparable killing on purpose with killing without purpose. If the latter has happened during a felony is of course worse than during other circumstances and it should be applied a higher jail sentence, but even in such a case, there is not the same degree of... wickedness.
Indifference and passive awe are common reactions to episodes of this sort.
Beyond the penalties imposed on these two young criminals, we should rethink what we are teaching our young generations, and the options we are giving them for a humane and dignified life.
Double morals at every level, from politics to corporate and business worlds, demoralize young people, who are tought that "success" means doing what you want, whenever you want to, and with no consequences at all.
What these teens did, must surely be seen by many others as "very cool", just like James Dean... so to speak.
juliio_chavezmontes@yahoo.com.mx
Punitive justice does not fix the problem. Sentences that constitute 1/10 of a persons life (what these boys got), are still too much. You say you value human life, while these boys are still human, let them have their lives. At base, it's hypocritical to suggest that Germany doesn't value human life, because they don't compound the loss of life with the confinement of life like the American justice system.
Punishment in the terms of jail sentences or death penalties does not prevent crimes, it's neither immediate enough an examplar, nor is it finite enough an event. If you want to start torturing people in public, putting them on the rack, or in the town stocks than you might prevent crime some crimes, but I think we've moved past that model of justice. The only other solution is to provide therapy and counseling (far more effecitve in changing behavior than any punishment anyways).
7-year jail term for Norridge hate crime
Polish national scrawled anti-Semitic graffiti on Jewish headstones
By Brian Cox, Special to the Tribune
7:26 PM CST, December 17, 2010
A Norridge man found guilty of a hate crime for spraying anti-Semitic graffiti on dozens of grave markers at a Jewish cemetery was sentenced Friday to seven years in prison.
"You have this warped idea that you're going to be a hero to these other bigots and white supremacists," Cook County Circuit Judge Larry Axelrood told Mariusz Wdziekonski before handing down the maximum sentence. "You wanted to inflict your hatred. You wanted to inflict your pain. You brought shame to your family."
Wdziekonski, 25, did not speak during his sentencing at the Skokie branch courthouse.
He was convicted Dec. 3 of spray-painting anti-Semitic epithets and neo-Nazi and white supremacist hate symbols on 67 headstones in Westlawn Cemetery in Norridge in January 2008. One grave marker was spray-painted with a noose with a Jewish Star of David dangling from it, authorities said.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/northnorthwest/ct-met-grave-defacer-sentenced-20101217,0,5932561,print.story