July 30, 2010
Published: 17 Mar 10 17:39 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100317-25945.html
Up to 25,000 people were killed in the controversial Allied bombing of the German city of Dresden during World War II, fewer than often estimated, an official commission concluded Wednesday.
AFP (news@thelocal.de)
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Your comments about this article:
Poland and the Baltics lost the highest percentage of their populations. The Soviets were next, then the Greeks and then the Germans. Numeric losses were the highest in the Soviet Union and China.
Losses in WWII were often tragic. With dozens of European 'hot spots'. Hopefully, we have learned and will avoid doing it again.
Certainly not enough to be classified as a war crime.
Now Churchill can be considered for sainthood.
They do actually. In their own way.
The statue erected in Westminster, London for Marshal of the Royal Airforce Arthur "Bomber" Harris is under 24 hours police guard because of several acts of vandalism on it.
There were protests in Germany and England as well over the statue and when it was unveiled by Queen Elizabeth , the Queen mother, the crowd jeered at her which she was quite surprised about.
The area bombing campaign on german cities was Harris' idea and planning. He also made some quite cynical comments about it.
Britain was not united behind that campaign. Churchill, as prime minister, carried the responsibility for allowing Harris' campaign but after the war Churchill tried to distance himself from that responsibility.
In short: war sucks.
whoa. Mcnamara was Sec of Defense during the Vietnam Conflict, 1965 - 1973. During WWII, the US had a Secretary of War. Howard Stimson was his name and I doubt very much that he was concerned about war crimes charges. Have heard nothing about war crimes against the Sec of Defense resulting from the Vietnam conflict although Mcnamara later wrote a book in which he claimed the conflict was a mistake. 58,000 US casualties a mistake!!! Iraq a mistake now says whiz kid Karl Rove, a 1st Class member of the last adminstrations inner circle. Dresden was a crime -- period and so unnecessary. Pity the German govmt is equating the Kunduz bombing to it,
In any case, this is what he said in Fog of War about his role in the firebombing of Japan in WWII:
LeMay said, "If we'd lost the war, we'd all have been prosecuted as war criminals." And I think he's right. He, and I'd say I, were behaving as war criminals. LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose and not immoral if you win?
Of course the 'new improved' number has little to with reality since six weeks after the attack Dresden's Mayor reported that one hundred thousand names had been registered as "missing" (i.e. dead) and that figure represents those not already identified. Approximately 40,000 bodies have been discovered since war's end.
So, in Soviet Germany, it is important to minimize the numbers of German war dead while doing everything possible to magnify the number of victims of National Socialism.
First, there was no military justification for the raid, and everyone involved knew that going in. The decision was made unrelated to any potential military gain, and carried out largely because the allies had a large air armada with little left to do.
Second, when you count the tragedies of the war, regardless of what population group was involved, regardless of which "side" was involved, one truth remains, and it is this.
If the original charter for the Nürnberg Tribunal did not include the words "only Germans can be charged under this tribunal" then every country involved in the war would have been represented in the dock. The Russians, for what they did in the former eastern countries and Germany, the British for what they did, primarily from the air, and the Americans, mostly for their air attacks in Japan. In addition, all the allies participated in the "repatriation" and forced dislocation throughout post-war Europe that rivals anything Germany did before and during the war.
In short, the war was a humanitarian disaster on all sides and all fronts. It would be nice if we learned from that, but I fear few did. Genocide has not disappeared, and we still fight over disputed territory. Sad.
wa
But regarding your last point concerning 'Soviet Germany', what are you talking about. It was always concieved of as a tragic loss of life, even in the East.
Since you are such a rightoeus judge who knows the thoughts and intentions of 65 million people. What is the just punishment for the Turks against the Armenias, The British against a whole host of peoples, the Belgians in the Congo, etc..? How about the slave labours who were killed in Dresden did they deserve to be killed? If a policeman kills thousands of innocents to arrest one criminal in most countries he would be arrested himself.
Criminals are in no position to judge other criminals.
The British government has no moral authority to judge anyone.
Most of their victims have never had justice.
War is terrible and should be avoided but if conducted civilians should not be targeted.
" In 1939, following the German invasion of Poland and subsequent declaration of war by the United Kingdom and France, the war in the West began. Britain struck first, bombing warships and light vessels in several German harbors on 3 and 4 September. Eight German Kriegsmarine men were killed at Wilhelmshaven - the war's first casualties to British bombs; attacks on ships at Cuxhaven and Heligoland followed."
As for Dresden, that was an act of pure spite. Only 3 months before the war ended, there wasn't any military reason at all.
You are correct.
Also remember in the Battle of Britain Hitler ordered the Luftwaffe
to avoid civilian targets. IT was only after the saintly British began night bombing of German cities that Hitler ordered retaliation.
Addtionally the German Luftwaffe was not designed for large scale massive raids on cities but used smaller bombers as flying atttlery to support the Army.
Germany's small fast bombers were not very usefull for bombing cities and were never intended for that purpose. As large as London was it would have
been nearly impossible for these small bombers to destroy the city.
We should learn from the past but let the past go...
These comments about the Dresden raids are no exception. Have you read nothing?
I recommend some serious homework, then reflection - after that, you might have an opinion worth listening to.
people get insanely whipped-up in their passions at wartime.
I even heard a guy in a bar say "we should bomb Buenos Airies"
how crazy is that?
My mother witnessed the Dresden bombing from 40 miles away in the city of Bautzen. She was in Bautzen fleeing the Soviets with her family and when the Allies firebombed the city. The light from the bombing was so bright, it was like day light. Those phosphate bombs burn quite brightly.
"If necessary, do you want a war more total and radical than anything that we can even yet imagine?"
Now, people, rise up, and let the storm break loose!"
The answer was a resounding "Yes", and so the storm came. Millions of innocents died as a result. That is what the Allies were up against.
Thankfully, our generation has been allowed to live together in peace, and I am grateful that the German people have been our friends for all of my lifetime. They did an excellent job in rising from those ashes. I believe that today's democratic Germany is a force for good. In any case, we can't have another war with them because we only have about 20 Spitfires left ;-)
janreg58,stop pointing at the other Nation,point at yourself,you Ass.
You fake ass alligator shoe should go and read the correct History which says that you greedy,animal,wicked and cold idiots started the war,Gestapo.
Only God knows had you won the war what the world would be like by now,probably you would have murdered half the world by now the way you coldly murdered the Jews and used them as fire woods and lab rat in Auschwitz..
Who knows after the Jews which race you would have labeled inferior and unworthy to live.
Do the math how many people did you kill in the first and the second world war,and mind you that these were the worst wars in the whole History of Mankind.Who implemented those wars you people did.
People learn to humble themselves from their mistakes but asses like you don't which stands to show what you people are capable of doing.
You people looks human but I think you are not.You should be labeled inhuman and be chained and locked in an island far from normal human..
Without it Hitler would never have come to power. Also the obvious fact is that Britain and France declared war on Germany and Britain expanded the war into Norway and much of the Balkans. So one can make a case that
Britain turned a limeited war into a WW II. Germany had no intention of attacking Norway or the Balkans unitl the the war mongers in London started dragging in other countries as is their custom.
Got something for you,here is a short list of your devilish war atrocities-
July August 1944, Ponary massacre (ca. 100,000 people, including children;October August 1941, Aktion T4 (70273 people, including children;1 September, Marijampolė massacre (1,404 children;29 30 September, Babi Jar massacre (33,771 people, including children: List of victims of the Babi Yar massacre;30 November and 8 December, Rumbula massacre (25,000 people, including children;4August 25, Ochota massacre (ca. 10,000 people, including children;
Nazi Human experiment-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation.
These are part of what you people did and here you damn idiot still answer statements.
Now I know that you are nothing but a carnivorous stupid tail ass inhuman.
You should go bury yourself......
It ain't leading nobody to nowhere.
you should look at the brighter side of life at least thats a good step for us to make the world a better place,my dearies.
One love
zombie satanic nazi imbecile
I grew up in the turbulent 60s in the USA. We asked our parents about Dresden, Hiroshima and other controversial activities by the Air Force during WWII. They weren't proud to have attacked these civilian populations, but felt that it avoided much-larger German, Japanese and American casualties.
Both Japan and Germany had officially detailed formation of Volkssturmman (or Kokumin Giyū Sentōtai) forces. These were 'home guard' forces where US Infantry would be forced to shoot-it-out with Japanese/German civilians before the war would be over. There had already a very bloody engagement in the Battle of Saipan in the summer of '44 where the Japanese home guard was a key force. It was clear that these 'home guard' forces wouldn't be scared away easily. It was the American position that the enduring hatred and losses from battles with 'home guards' (the German one was different from the Japanese one) would leave all three countries with a millions of additional casualties.
In Feb '45, Dresden shocked the German population. German surrendered in April-May to bring that to an end. On August 6 '45, The Japanese didn't even respond after Hiroshima and so three days later, there was a Nagasaki. The Japanese surrendered six days later.
Americans do bear the guilt of their forces and respond with shocked irony when others forget theirs.
Let us hope that we have put this behind us to avoid more Dresdens, Hiroshimas and beyond.
There is no question that the National Socialists leaders had a devilish racial policy and treated the people in the occupied countries in a horrible and brutish fashion. This is something we all know about. To try to somehow paint me as There is no need for me to point it out. You say Germany wanted world domination. Guess what, Britain had been seeking world domination for 300 years and was doing much better at it than Germany. Using wikipeda for your sources is not a good idea. You r paper would flunk any good first year history class for using such sites.
The level of hatred and your use insulting language concerns me.
You should seek treatment before you hurt yourself or someone else.