May 21, 2012
Published: 12 Mar 10 08:06 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100312-25831.html
The Admiral Graf Spee, the German "pocket battleship" scuttled to Uruguay in 1939, is caught in the middle of a struggle between the businessman salvaging it and the German government, which wants to prevent its commercialization.
AFP (news@thelocal.de)
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Your comments about this article:
In the hands of the Salvage company and Uruguay at least the public at large can benefit in some capacity from the remains of the ship.
Germany would most definitely suppress this Historical finding in some manner. Hiding the truth doesn't mean it never happened, it's a cowards way of dealing with a dirty past, although a typical response to embarrassment.
Let the Uruguayan salvage the ship with the provisio that nazi memorabilia be destroyed.
It would be a tourist draw as a museum (and thus a benefit to the local economy) and a testimonial to Uruguayan neutrality during WWII.
"yes, trying to hide it in plain sight - those devilish germans!" Yeah, typical nonsense coming from you Englishmen, really. Full of hate on Germans and completely blind to your own history of incessant warfare, opression, murder and slavery. You probably pleasure yourself to the thought of the English armies sweeping across the globe. Educate yourself on how the British navy pulverized Zanzibar when it refused to accept the sovereignty of the British crown, and what England did to central Europe during the 30 years war.
You must be very obnoxious and awful human beings, William Thirteen and AirForceGuy
It is as if you think Germany was the first and only country to have ever waged war and kill people.
The Graf Spee definitely has an interesting history. I do not see the point in removing any Nasional Socialist imagery - it can just be seen everywhere else, in history books, on the internet, etc. Also, everyone will know that there would have been swastikas and eagles painted on everywhere. Removing the symbols won't mean pretty much anything. The symbols and designs of the Third Reich themselves aren't even evil though, they just have evil associations. People can check out the meaning of the Nasional Socialist flag and designs simply by going on Wikipedia.
Unfortunately, everything about World War 2 era Germany is viewed as inseparable from the Holocaust, the designs, the people, the little German kids, the war effort, etc. Very few peple know what the war was actually about, let alone what the word Nazi or National Socialism even means.
All thanks to the Anglo-American media dictatorship, Hollywood and worthless history eduaction at school.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_pocket_battleship_Admiral_Graf_Spee
Although interesting, questionable activities and antrocities were on all sides during war, we do not need to degress into bitterness while new generations try to move on in the new millenia.
Thats true, were pretty much the best in everything we do. Stop being so jelios and get some history in your brain so you learn all the other holocausts of the past. And i will just ignore the 5 million dying EVERY YEAR in Africa as a result of US imperialism. Retard!
How long will this comment be allowed to stay here?
I am not absolving certain factions in Germany for the atrocities they committed during in WW2, but their is more than enough blame to go around to paint both sides as guilty.
Britian does have a history of imperialism ,and conquering foreign lands and subjugating their people and claiming it for themselves.
America is also guilty of throwing its weight around internationally nowdays and commiting fire-bombing atrocities ,and many other during the war
If we want to be specific, lets go back to The league of nations ,and the treaty of versaillesand pinpoint that as the set-up for success for Adolf Hitler. Had America and britian not agreed to the crushing reparations placed upon Germany ,maybe he wouldnt have been lended a sympathetic ear.
We are all guilty when it relates to WW2 and i think it is high time the german people stop feeling guilty ,and stop apologising for something that was not soley their fault.
Hitler and the nazis did exist , and it was a significat time in history ,so lets stop trying to stamp out every trace of their existence.
Recognize it for what it was ,and make it available for all to see and study.
Their is plenty fo revisionism that needs to be done anyway,for as we all know history truely is written by the victors..
The Graf Spee is an interesting historical monument to the history of warship design and German engineering. Strip it of its filthy Nazi memorabilia and let it be shown as a German thing.
Mixxim you are a nutter. Israeli jewish people are back in the land God gave them and they are only trying to sell you grapefruit, oranges and high tech as well as keep on breathing. The insane Mahdi's around about them who have 500 times the space are the ones causing us all the grief. Islam is the religion which teaches that all other people are only fit for slavery or death.
I completely understand the German sensitivity to the display of Nazi era icons. It makes perfect sense. However, I don't believe it is in anyone's best interests to censor history. The ships of that day carried those symbols, and we all know it. To pretend they didn't means we ARE willing to try to re-write or re-shape history, and that means we can never learn from it.
I've been to many of the camps, and they are most effect tools to learn, precisely because they make no attempt to justify anything. They simply let you see what life was like and explain the things that happened. The camp museums leave it to the viewer to form opinions, letting the facts speak for themselves.
Is this ship a fascinating relic of the times? Certainly. At this point in time, it represents neither an allied victory nor a German defeat. It provides a glimpse of another time, both technologically and socially/politically. Given what we now know about what really happened, it also demonstrates the implications of perception.
By all means show the ship as it was. Tell the real story behind what happened. Allow everyone, German and non-German to learn from it. Don't change a thing from what is real. Have some faith that most people will find it a positive. Understand that some will try to make something of it, and allow them that freedom. True freedom comes that way.
wa
Yeah, okay......there is other things to read in the fantasy section of your local book stor.y
I dont believe you will find anywhere in my post where i said that germany didnt start ww2, or that they werent guilty of war crimes.
What i said was that the allies werent exactly gleaming examples of purity when it came to waging war....Anybody remember the russians?
Bomber(bomb the civilians) Harris.?..In a postwar examinaton of germanys infrastructure it was claimed that had the Bombing campaigns been dedicated to attacking the electrical grid ,and fuel producing facilities, the war could have been shortend by years.....But when you have some dinosaur in air command thinking that by killing civilians he can make a dictator cry uncle, you dont stand a chance of wining a war in a timely manner
As for the starting WW2, Germany did commit the first acts of aggression ,but i will repeat that the beginning ww2 is not as simple ,and black and white as Hitler invaded Poland.....the seeds of WW2 were sewn @ the end of WW1... Any competent historian will tell you that.
As for that sorry excuse for a commander Pershing....he is most certainly not worth any praise he recieves....He was quick to commit lives to certain death for a cause that was lost .
Even though it was deciced long beforehand the exact month,day,and hour that the armistice would begin ,Pershing still gave the order for aggressive actions aginst the enemy up until the very last hour of the war. A pointless waste of human life if ever here was one.
When public uproar over loved ones being sent into battle in the final hours prompted an investigation ,Pershing showed no remorse or regret except that the he was not allowed to continue fighting until utter defeat of the enemy had been accomplished.......That type of non-caring attitude as to the welfare of his troops in lost causes is very reminiscent ot Hitler himself, and gives an insight as to the very nature of the man...It is very easy to commit a life that is not your own
I stand by belief in historical revisionism.....I would like it revised to accurately describe what really transpired
I hesitate to use the words truth or facts ,because truth is a matter of perspective and facts are a matter of perception..
I believe Napolean said it best "what is history but a fable agreed upon"
If you go back and really inspect the historical record ,and not from a book they hand you in school, you will find that most history is a pack of lies, about events that never happened ,written by a person who never there.
Fact Check:
1.) Germany's public education system covers the Nazis for longer than they held power (>12 years). Japanese internment, the genocide of the Native American (according to the articles established post-WWII), and slavery are covered only about 2 years on average in most public schools in the U.S. Similar story for the opium trade in the U.K., or Stalin's mass murders in russia, or Mao's cultural evisceration in China. They don't hide things in Germany. This has been the case in West Germany since Willy Brandt and in the east since 1949.
2.) Germany did not start WWI. Austria was the first to declare war, and if you really want to get complicated go back to 1871 and talk European politics.
3.) Historical revisionism is not a term merely used to describe illegitimate reinterpretation of history, but also legitimate reinterpretation. Historical revisionism doesn't mean you just wipe out past conceptions of the past, but rather that you compare them along side more contemporary conceptions.
Feces slinging monkeys ,and making of asses is most times the best that can be said about the individuals involved.
It typically doesnt take long for it to reach familiar levels of ridiculousness.
One of the wonders of the internet is that every fool (me included ) gets to spout off about everything they doesnt know squat about and publicly demonstrate the theory that it is better to keep you mouth shut and be thought a fool , than to open it and remove all doubt.