More German workers suffer burnout

@Expaticus

Yes. Your behavious are unfamiliar to the german psyche because they are american behaviours. Germans plan for their future, including future disasters, through government schemes and consider every-man-for-himself an inferior way of living. And, there is very little that says they are wrong. After all, stress related illness is actually something newsworthy here because it is uncommon. It isn't newsworthy in countries already following your prescription.

And, please get yours facts straight - you have obviously no idea of what life is like for the average german or what the german rules are so misinforming other people reading this site is unfair.

hear hear!

/cite//Germans start work at c. 27 after a leisurely seven-year cruise through college, get six weeks of paid vacation, can't get fired, have no skin in …//endcite

I was fired together with three workmates without any further payment because the company ran out of money. As far as the holidays go: it was not unusual to work on saturdays without any compensation, so the 27 days holiday could be reduced to 15 days if you compensate for the saturdays... What Expaticus is talking about is the situation of larger companies with a strong union a few years ago, the situation in mid-size and small companies is, by far, different.

Burn out? Where would that be then??????? I think Germans have the cushiest working hours in Europe!!!!!!! Not open Weds afternoon, no Sundays, 2 hour - lunch breaks!!!!!!!! Take the week off at the slightest sign of a very mild cold or a broken finger-nail. Don't make me laugh!!!!!

I've been burned out since I was 16.

Get over it, Germany. You're starting to sound like whiney France.

Actually, worker burnout and the social contract with the workers are part of the same issue. Because it costs so much to employ a worker, there is a significant barrier to hiring an incremental worker to share the load. So it falls on fewer shoulders to produce something that the market will pay for. It also creates a situation where there are haves and have nots. Except for jobs that are local or have some special attribute to it (say the Porsche brand), there is no real reason why a lot of the work can't be done in Bangalore or Shanghai, or Istanbul. You really can't blame the politicians, because they are just providing what the voters want. It is just that what the voters want is not sustainable over time.

Then you think wrong. You could read some of the threads on greeceI heard no complaints - just a bunch of statisticsMostly, I agree with you, Wireless one, but the trend today is moving towards moving jobs back in house because of either quality or additional hidden costs. The cost of local employees is high as you say, but transparent. The cost of incorrectly assuming a web programmer in india will understand what people want to do with the website in germany and having to rewrite everything six months late is higher. However, a large number of sound-bite managers really do think that they are doing the company a favour sending stuff like this off-shore.

Please stop. I worked at a top German company in Germany for 4 years and its a joke. Their is no level of measure for performance. Again, when you are evaluated, performance is not a measure and you cant get fired. I met my targets way and above what i should have and i was considered a "bad employee". In the US/UK, you get to keep your job according to how well you "perform". The levels of performance in German companies are as follows: 1. Tenure 2. Kids 3. Married 4. How long have you been with the company 5. Are you a nice preson 6. Targets

Its a joke that people "stress haben". Thats because they keep people in their desks with no work to do. I took a severance because the business model didnt work anymore however, i could have stayed and my employer would have been happy just to have me show up. Thats the attitude in Germany. I could have came in at 8:58, had my 2 hour coffee, 2 hour lunch, made some political comment, talked on the phone and then leave at 4:57 when the big rush goes for the door because its in the contract to work 9-5 and no later.

Buiness models in German companies are getting destroyed in this economy because exports are not moving and consumers are not spending. So, you can be as lazy as you want hoping business comes back but its not. Not for a long time. Europe's growth is being destroyed. GDP is supposed to be under 1% this year. Catastrophisch! Ungloublisch! Whatever, massive reststructuring is coming where you can fire employees later this year. And yes, fire them because of performance. Its happening now in Berlin.

Education, Hartz IV, health care, military will all change as well...Maybe more stress to come because you actually have to perform?

I'm not German but suffer from worker burnout as well as soon as I realize how much the Finanzamt takes from my hard earned money each month.

You Germand are a bunch of pussy-whipped weaklings and emotional children.

Yes Germans should suck it up.

Lets reopen all the old coal mines and steel mills.

I liked the Ruhr when black clouds hung over it.

If you don't die 55 from cancer or black lung you don't know what real work is.

Agree with peschvogel

1. Tenure 2. Kids 3. Married 4. How long have you been with the company 5. Are you a nice preson 6. Targets

I am not a German, but My Germany boss did so to evaluate the salary and bonus level.

As single one, same as my single colleagues - either man or woman, do get less benifit from the company.

I also agree, German guys are working harder than 3-5 years ago due to more competition from oversea.

indeed, we see how well that neoliberal approach is working over there in the US & the UK.

Lets put one favourite misconception to bed. German companies have (almost) no restrictions firing people. If your german boss wants to fire you then, legally, all he needs do is write a letter informing you and giving you a reason why - which can be and often is "no fault attached to employee, restructuring has made his position redundant". That is it - subject to contractual notice periods etc, you are sacked.

If the employer doesn't put any blame on you for your sacking, then you cannot complain or challenge this - nothing short of a court order can change it - you really are sacked. (And, I'm not sure about the court order.)

Simultaneously, the employer may or may not offer you compensation, he is under no obligation to do so. Also, he is usually required to consult the worker's council but again there is no legal requirement to listen to them following consultation.

So, actually, like the no-minimum-wage rule, germany is more employer friendly than most rambo-countries.

Of course, just as the employer has nothing enforcing more than this, there is nothing that says you must accept it and if you think that for whatever reason the situation is unfair you can turn to the local court. You are still sacked, but you can complain that, for example, your boss picked on you or that you gave them four patents that they are still earning money from or simply that, given your devotion to them, they could be more generous. Unless the employer explicitely put some blame on you, you cannot challenge the dismissal itself.

The judge, after giving you a period of trying to sort it out yourself, will then decide how much compensation you should be given. If he feels that the employer really has been unfair then he will award you an extra big sum which is why the employer usually offers something quite reasonable in the first place.

This is the base legal situation between you and the employer - any contracts that the company sign with you or with, for example, a union are suplimentary and nothing to do with employment law.

michael4096:

So, in sum, you are saying that it makes it harder for employers to fire you for "reasons". They just send the final solution letter and walla. Just redundancy..

Clearly, at German companies, you cant get fired for subjective reasons such as performance, tardiness, etc. At least in other countries or "rambo" countries as you mention, there are "reasons" rather than conspiring.

This is good in a country where people stay in there jobs for 10 to 20 years and even if you are more educated, harder working, a foreigner, you will never be able to move up the company ladder in Germany..

Well, well, well, from what i am hearing is that this is all changing right now in Berlin ad they are making even Germany more of a "rambo" nation and you can sack people without notice or betriebstrat. Performance will be the measure and the HUGE amounts of dead wood at companies in Germany are toast..

Schade

@peschvogel No. Thats not what I'm saying. It is just as easy to fire people for 'reasons' or for no reasons related to them. There is no conspiricy, its exactly the same - you are just as fired. And, if you are correct that companies in Berlin are doing that with no change in the law then you are just underlining that what I say is so.

The only difference is that if the company does choose to give a reason then they must be prepared to support their case in front of a judge. But, that is the case in most countries anyway. If they choose to give no reason then they cannot decide that should get less compensation than somebody else because you are lazy or whatever.

Malingerers! Ditch the arbeits planner for a urlaubs planner before even thinking about whingeing!!!

Michael4096:

"only difference is that if the company does choose to give a reason then they must be prepared to support their case in front of a judge"

Stimmt! So, this is the reason why its impossible to fire. Employers are scared of the judge and the law.

You see, in the US, you can just say its "performace" related. In Germany, you have to get clever and make up "other" reasons because performace is not a measure. Just make sure its all in writing!

Schlim