February 8, 2012
Published: 4 Mar 10 09:14 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100304-25643.html
Security analysts warn Germany’s push for the removal of the US nuclear weapons from its soil could have dramatic strategic consequences, including inadvertently fuelling a Middle East arms race and reaffirming the need for US military might in Europe.
David Wroe (david.wroe@thelocal.de)
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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Your comments about this article:
Germany has already started 2 World Wars. What? You shooting for three?
or the time honored false accusation that Germany started 2 World Wars and so automatically would start a third.
The Soviet Union is dead the military industrial complex and the war profiteers will always find some reason to make people think they need to spend billions on weapons. Despite their allged barbarity the Russians are not going to nuke Europe. It make no sense to destroy something if you want to take it. It would be like a burgler burning down a house before he steals from it. Furthermore, after nuking Europe what would the Russinas do with it? Their troops would have to cross over 1500 k of fallout to get to Paris. Addtionally the Russians are not barbarians. Stalin is long gone.
As far as the idea Germany started 2 World Wars and can't be trusted is absurd.
First Germany did not "start" World War I. A combination of factors led to the start of WW I . Just because Germany was forced to sign a document saying they started the war doesn't make it so. Taking in to account that Germany certainly bares a great deal of responsiblity for the last two great Eurpoean wars doesn't mean their current leadership will start another.
If that is the case nearly every major power in the world has started or participated in an agressive war does that mean they should not be allowed weapons for self defense or is it only Germany that is not allowed to defend itself. It is this type of mistreatment of the Germans and that lead to World War II.
The Eurpoeans could pool their resources and buy a few nukes from the US just to keep the Russian Bear honest. Besides American could use the money anyway so they can pay make the Communist Chinese who nobody seems to be worried about despite the fact they are more dangerous than the Germans or Russians.
Additionally, for the above suggestions of purchase or non-proliferation, you've got to be kidding yourselves. Germany and France are the largest nuclear technology exporters in the world. As such, Germany could build a small guaranteed-critical warhead by simply overengineering inside of a matter of days, if it so chose. I would probably inclined to think that the engineering of it has already been done, but there are no assembled weapons. We sat next door to hordes of Russian tank divisions for the better part of a century. You really think we're not interested in our own, independent defense first and foremost? Com'n, seriously; get real.
What I am proposing is not even remotely controversial. As stated, the Luftwaffe has already operated nuclear weapons for much of it's existence. All this would really be is no longer putting a pretty P.C. face on it. Russia is still a very real threat, and the Russian government is completely insane. Idiot-nations like Iran are quickly becoming a threat, too, and we're soon to be within their delivery range. We need the threat of instant annihilation to keep their more radical elements from acting out of fanaticism. The only proven, workable deterrent is the capability and willingness to respond with military force as appropriate, and have the ability to wipe the enemy off the face of the earth. This is not speculative; this is historically proven.
Also, I don't think Israel is going to be nuking Germany, seeing as how we are their top supplier of submarines, among other things.
- Germany did not start WWI. Thames is right on. That piece of paper was France & Britains way of .... oh just forget it.
- Russia poses a "potential" threat to Europe. Yes Has321, the threat is several thousand meters further east now. But, there are those proud Russians who are pissed at the Soviet decline and dedicated to a revived super Union.
- My dear Der Grenadier, geez, Germany is just getting over the "jitters" from the Afghanistan deployment. Now doesn't appear to be the time to bring up an independent German delivery system with warheads.
- My man Freenemy, of course Japan has the capability to quickly develop it's own warhead and delivery system -- but it' s people are even more adverse to an offensive military than the Germans and they would have to change their consitution. You're very right, Germany is already a de facto nuclear power. Didn't know the Luftwaffe had this much control as Der Grenadier implies -- doesn't sound right
- Eagle 1 has a very valid point. The leftist loudmouths are giving the critics of the current U.S. decision makers some real ammunition. -- The current crisis with Greece comes to mind. They are expert at using the "strategy of diversion" and blame everyone for their problems. In the 80's, facing economic problems and tension from its poplulation the small American military facilities in Greece were blamed for all of Greece's problems.
- Israel wanting more revenge on Germany? Come on Kent. Oh, I said I wouldn't address comments like that.
I don't doubt that the Japanese have the necessary tech for device ruggedization and delivery...
The fact that Westerwelle raises this question means that others are thinking it ?- perhaps just using this as a trial balloon.
Westerwelle is of course correct in his sentiment, but things are not always as they seem to be, especially in politics.
This begs the question - and it is not just a rhetorical one - what will replace the US nuclear weapons.Could it be that Germany would consider having its own nuclear warheads?
While it used to be just the former USSR/Russia who were afraid of a revanchist Germany ?- presently it is probably more France and the UK who would strongly oppose a nuclear armed Germany.
@Wxman - your rationale is EXACTLY the kind of thinking that got American in trouble from 1936 - 1939 -- when the public and the Congress were extremely "isolationist". In 1940 the size of the US army was a meager 100,000. Pres Roosevelt knew what was coming. Understand your criticism and used to think the same. One good thing about your comments is that they reflect the opinion of the MAJORITY of Americans -- which probably surprises much of the world since they "just know" the U.S. wants to be involved in everything. Blind eyes led to Pearl Harbor(1941 attack) and yes, 9/1/01!!!!
Missile Defense, like it or not, is clearly the answer.
Therefore, politicians and decision-makers should focus more on this. Because sooner or later, some country may send a few nuclear weapons flying across the sky. No matter how many weapons a nation may have, it will nonetheless be too late. then
Ivan is waking up again, Achmed wants nukes, Uncle Sam is becoming sleepy, sounds like the start of WW3
Russia will just play chicken, all bark and no bite.
In Georgia they had a reason (oil pipeline to control), and besides Stalin was a Georgian and it would look bad if their pater's place didn't have some form of control that was Russian.
Trust me; we have a delivery system if we want one.
This is a move clearly decided byy Germany. The US is currently making a case for Iran. Germany, along with Turkei, Belgium, France, Neth, Lux are saying to the US they wont US missels out. This has been planned for over 2 years now.
You see, if the US makes a case for a "nuclear" Iran, then European countries have already said they A) Dont want to make a case out of Iran when their counries have weapons B) The dont want Iranian missels pointed at them. The case for Iran is a further push to isolate Russia & China against each other.
Auch, Russia will indeed attack Europe. In all the 50 something conflicts between Russia & Europe, guess who attacked who first 95% of the time? Da.. Europe will not have an ample force nor a Nuclear setante because they were worried about Iran...
Its all been planned folks: http://ww-iii.tripod.com/russia.htm
It is not revisionist histroy to say that Germany did not bare sole responsibilty for the war, it is simply history. Blaming Germany for everything is propoganda not history and certainly not objective or just.
Certainly the US didn't start WWI I never wrote that in my post.
However, the US investigated it's own role in WWI and found that it was business interests that dragged America into the War. THis was done shortly after the war and is not so called revisionist history.
A) Yes, you are wrong. B) No, the US is not going bankrupt.
You are wrong in your global strategy because these missels are used as a deterante against Soviets. You Germans think you are good with your Helmut Kohl on the board of Gazprom. There is credible evidence that Russia is gaining strength and out of the 40 something times Europe has been attacked in its marvelous history, it has come from one place....da...Europe has no time to nor money to raise an army to protect herself in the near future. Your people would probably cook for the Soveits as they march into your stadtmitte's. No loyalty nor honor for your rights whch are going away due to the new facist EU Superstate. I think this project will fail because of the Euro problems confronting the "one size fits all" perihphery's.
B) The US has something your precious Euro does not. Control over currency. Dont take it from me but the numerous Nobel laurete's who claimed the failure of its "one size fits all currency". Look, because of the sovereign debt problems, demographic problems, currency problems, export only and no consumersim problems, museum economy problems, racists problems, immigration problems, europe is looking screwed. The US, UK, Japan can inflate its way out of the crisis and monetize its debt but Europe CANNOT do this. Thats why you will see massive civil unrest in your "civilized" society. Social welfare = kaput.
So, Mr. Cash, I ask you to explain yourself. The US has done the same thing French, British, Dutch and yes, even German past had done, protect its strategic routes. Germany is showing on TV's in April, "How to deal with riots and social unrest". Now, I suggest, why are your people becoming violent?
The USA does not have a strategic need to have ground-pounders in Germany anymore. I would really prefer that we just bring them home. I don't particularly understand why we would move them to former Warsaw pact nations. Europe's defense is clearly in Europe's hands.
The USA will get more back from General Motors and AIG TARP than they will from the post-WWII Marshal plan investment. But we are big-boys and can learn from our mistakes.
If you knew the shadowy details of the relationship between the American and German navy and their level of cooperation everywhere from Norfolk to Diego Garcia, you wouldn't think the notion of storing American reserve (nuclear) submarine munitions in Kiel was all that "silly"....
I am aware of Kiel. There are no nuclear sub missiles stored there. Unless the USA is breaking the SALT treaty with the Soviet Union/Russia. You need examples before you should say that.
Kiel is important to Baltic and North Sea operations. Just like anything else, the USA could certainly be convinced that everyone there can take care of themselves. I would like the tax money back, too.
But you lost me with the tax money bit. What do you mean?
PS: I was talking about word usage, not general definition. (I have no intention of getting into a discussion on linguistics)
I am concerned that the free-wheeling discussion here will get into basic changes of peace treaties and alliances. Abrogation of those agreements can destabilize the EU surprisingly quickly. I doubt that the Russians would stand on the sidelines if Germany abruptly turned-around on those key agreements.
That being said, I have always found it fascinating to consider significant changes, especially if the USA can keep more of its tax dollars at home (or reduce taxes).
Dear Peschvogel
Interesting, your link from your earliest blog on this subject about the planned invasion of Europe by the Russians goes to a nostredamus site. Really, well if we are going to gagaland then my ouija board and chicken entrails consultations say you are wrong. Noticed you didn't comment on my bit on your constitution or is that a non subject these days. The US is in control of their finances is it. Do you mean the Federal Reserve bank . That secretive cartel of private bankers who decide how they will manipulate the US economy for their own agenda and gain with no oversight from your government. Oh great system you are lauding up there where these sweethearts print up the money and charge your government for the privilege. US not bankrupt? Here are the latest figures and predictions. During the administration of President George W. Bush, the gross debt increased from $5.6 trillion in January 2001 to $10.7 trillion by December 2008,[6] rising from 58% of GDP to 70.2% of GDP. During March 2009, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that gross debt will rise from 70.2% of GDP in 2008 to 100.6% in 2012. Maybe in your world that is not bankrupt but I sure as hell would not be buying dollars. The Iranians have dropped the dollar for oil deals. Call me cynical if you like, but maybe this is the real reason the US is sabre rattling over Iran. If that rot sets in and all the oil producers price in Euros then wouldn't that cause a few problems back home. Most of the problems you set out in your second blog that Europe has are also being experienced in the US too are they not? As far as unrest is concerned ,it is all planned, but it is not the Russians causing that problem it is the New World Order we are hearing about all the time in the controlled mass media that is pushing unrest everywhere, not just in Europe. It is an old ploy that somehow always seems to work called divide and conquer and reading these blogs it seems to be working very well indeed. Have we really learnt nothing from history?
this article is about nuclear weapons? Lets not get carried away with ourslves. Ungloublisch!
However, if you are on the topic of economics, i love this topic, then lets continue. The US, Japan, UK have something your country does not. Control of its currency. Its the words reserve you ninny. Spako, look, the Americans & Japenese dont "riot" like you Euro monkeys in times of crisis, we obey, take it on the chin, act like grown adults and move on. All this radical talk, typisch Deutsche....NWO, you are crazy, arent you. Well, whatever your issues are, you should rest knowing that Germany's "Bismarkian" welfare state is over so you will have to get a job rather than surf these web sites trying to pick fights.
Look, your decisions are being made for you. A certain group meets every year to discuss the coming years agenda. Sorry if you werent invited. It was no coincidence that it was held last year in Greece and this year it will be in Isreal. So you can pund your fist on the dsk all you want and read your radical nostradamus whatever, just make sure your ready...