Swine flu kills two in Bavaria

I almost posted this comment in the Vent because it is really really really agitating to me at the moment.

I'm not so good at math, but wouldn't 16 out of AT LEAST 40,000 cases be something like... uh... hm... .04%? You have AT MOST a .04% chance of dying from the swine flu if you catch it?? You have a better chance of surviving swine flu than you do of say, jumping out of an airplane with a parachute and making it safely to the ground, or getting home from work today without getting in an automobile accident.

Now I'm not a swine flu shot conspiracy theorist but when the shot itself kills you we have problems. Let's get some stats on how many people have gotten the shot versus how many people have died from the shot and see if our chances aren't better to just ride it out.

Bahhhrrrglglglthbthb annoying.

rant over!

Good rant but if somebody died a few hours after drinking a cup of tea would you ban tea? would seem a rather important sentence, oder?

I got the shot 2 weeks back and am still alive. Even my 4 yrs old son got it and he is fine too. Surprisingly my wife did not get it and she is fine too!

no Pas, I wouldn't ban tea! And I do see that it hasn't been confirmed that the shots were the only cause of death. Remember of course that I didn't call for a ban of the shot, I'm just tired of all the hysteria about the flu itself.

Wouldn't be ironic if more people died from the shot than from the actual illness? Wait ... does someone has the statistics from the 70s?

0.04% is equivalent to one in 2,500. So according to your figures referring to driving home from work, then we should all be dead within five years (assuming two journeys a day, five days a week).

Good thing that you prefaced your post with "I'm not so good at maths".

just back from my dr. mentioned about the press reporting about several deaths from the vaccination.

he said it's unsure yet if the victims had pre existing medical conditions or if the deaths were actually from something else altogether.

anyway, it makes good news headlines and adds to the hysteria.

STB people are lucky and unlucky every single day. How does that make my math bad? It's absurd to believe that just because you drove somewhere 2500 times that one of those times you will get in an accident. Tell that to the boy who just got his license and was killed in an accident the twentieth time he drove his car, or the girl who got pregnant the first time she had sex. Don't be daft.

edit: but I will admit I don't know the exact stats for how many vehicles per 1000 make it to their destination over a specific amount of road unharmed.

Blimey, you really don't understand statistics, do you?

Statistics and probability are two different things. I see the irony.

thanks, Krieg.

Your numbers were wrong dessa, but that was not the point, we all understood what you wanted to say. Then STN tried to make you look bad when you already said you are not good at math and then it all turned into funny stuff.

The law of averages bites most of us in the arse sooner or later. If the death rate for a motor journey really was 1 in 2,500 then we should all expect to die in such an accident; it's just that if you're an inexperienced driver you should expect to die much sooner. Fortunately, the death rate on the roads is actually around 0.005% per annum.

The relevant question here is whether the death rate for swine flu is higher or lower than for regular flu and, leading on from that, whether the incident rate is higher or lower. Then compare that to the death rate from the vaccine, and people will be able to make a decision on whether to get themselves vaccinated or not. It's obviously too early to get an accurate figure on the death rate from the vaccine, but I would expect it to be lower than from the flu.

A few weeks ago my family doctor told me he didn?t think it was a good idea to get vaccinated. Just this morning I sent an email to my friends and family with this link, the multi-part videos explain quite clearly the reasons why we should not get vaccinated. Ultimately it should be up to the individual; however in the U.S. Mr. Obama wants to make it mandatory, which troubles me deeply.

Why does it trouble you deeply? Are you moving to the States soon?

The most worrying thing about that is that we get conflicting information from doctors about it. It seems that we can't even trust the professionals. Having said that some of them think if you wave a piece of stone over somebody they will get better. Who can you trust.

Do you have a link (not from Fox News) showing where Obahma wants to make it mandatory?

Do you have a credible source for this claim? Because it clearly isn't true, is it?

This was in the news because it is news. Doesn't mean it has any basis in fact! How many 55 year old men die every day, how many are apparantly healthy, how many of them had a shot the day before, or ate chicken or sniffed a flower? Wait for the autopsy before jumping to ill informed, hysterical conclusions. I am fed up of such articles being printed without first gathering all the evidence and subjectively evaluating the facts but then that is the job of the press, to sensationalise everything and anything, just so long as you put your hand in your pocket and buy the paper or read the adverts. To hell with the truth and scaring hell out of everyone let's make a profit!

My whole family, including my daughter who is attending university are in the US

It is always a bit shocking to me to read that some doctors (in Germany anyway) are telling their patients not to get the H1N1 vaccine. If my doctor told me that, I would want peer-reviewed information backing up his/her claim, not just some random bad feeling about it (which it seems like most have been saying.)

As for me, I am going with the Center for Disease Control's recommendation to get the vaccine. The CDC is widely accepted as the highest authority on infectious disease.

I never really found MSNBC to be trully realiable, here is a link Military to get mandatory swine flu shots

I will look for other inks which will aply to civilians.

Uh, right. The military represents the WHOLE of the United States. Comprehension FAIL. Fearmongering WIN.

Where exactly in that article does it say it was Obahma's decision? And that's a rather small subset of the population at best. The same subset that most Americans seem OK with allowing to go and get shot/blown up in a land far away.

So back up your statement that 'Obahma want's mandatory shots for everbody' please.

I got my shot of Pandemrix on Saturday and im still alive and well. ;-)

The immune system of each person is different. Some react slow, some fast, some with stronger side effects than others, some without any feelable side effects and yes a small percentage of immune systems overreact and cause strong side effects.

Its like with a allergic reaction to a bee sting. Not everyone who is allergic does automatically die of a single bee sting. The circumstances dictate why one out of 20 bee allergic people dies of a sting.

According to the package leaflet, the most common side effects of the vaccine Pandemrix are : Headache, tireness , fever, joint pain, muscle pain, slight swelling and mild pain in the area were the shot was given (like with all vaccinations)

Some of them can occur and may last for a few days. But its highly unlikely that you get all of them.

The only side effects i felt were the mild headache (and it was really a mild one which did not even require aspirin) , tireness over the weekend and a slight raise in temperature which did not become a real fever.

All of it is gone since today and im feeling great again. :-)

Afterall, the immune system has to react to the deactivated (dead) virus fragments the vaccine consists of.

So if you feel side effects, rest assured that this means the vaccine is doing what it is supposed to do. Provoking your immune system to react and to learn of the protein layout of the swine flu virus. As no really living and reproducing virus is there, your immune system soon stops its measures which make you feel not so well.

But after that not-live fire lesson, it knows how to defeat the enemy and can attack and defeat it immediately should it really show up inside your body. Short, you've become immune. ;-)

So what exactly is it that makes this flu different and more deadly than any other variety? I notice that by following the link given earlier to the CDC, this is not explained. If the stats quoted in the article are true then I don't see there being any greater risk of dying from this than from any other strain of flu.

What's more worrying is the possibility that you "might" (please note that word before leaping on your keyboard) die from the vaccine. The CDC does have something in its FAQ about sufferers of egg allergies.

What it doesn't say is if the vaccine packaging states "May contain nuts."

@ LancanshireLad

Thats because of several factors :

- The swineflu virus belongs to the same H1N1 virus sub type family as the spanish flu if 1918 did.

- Like the spanish flu , its unusually virulent and thus spread even faster over the entire world than the spanish flu. Thats mainly because of our modern interconnected world with so many ways to travel.

In 1918, it spread so wide because of the troop movements of ww1.

Also, the usual seasonal flus dont spread that far or fast either.

- In its first wave, the spanish flu equalled the current swine flu pretty much.

A slightly but unusual enhighed rate of mortality among other age groups than the usual very-young/very-old or sick groups but nothing that seemed all too serious.

BUT in its second wave, the spanish flu pratically mutated overnight to a much deadlier form , and new infected and completely healthy mid aged people along with all others suddenly started to die from it. And that in alarming numbers.

In the end , around 50 million people worldwide died and 500 million people got infected in the second and third wave of a flu that did not seem to be that dangerous in the beginning except for its unusal speed and range of spread.

Thats what makes the scientists so uneasy.

Swine flu could easily follow the same path. It does not have to happen but it could happen any day. Nobody can foresee the path of mutation a virus takes as this happens pretty spontaneously.

The potential is there.

Wikipedia has a good article on the spanish flu.

This is nothing new or newsworthy. US soldiers receive mandatory vaccinations against HEP A, HEP B and Tetnus [SP?] once a year as well as Smallpox and Anthrax vaccines before deploying to certain parts of the world. Anytime there is a perceived threat of something that could rapidly spread throughout the formation, the military will order mandatory vaccinations against it.

Mary Tocco runs her daughter, Dr. Renee Tocco's chiropraxy clinic. She is not medically qualified and neither is her daughter and neither have written any peer-reviewed scientific papers. I would not therefore rely on either of them for valid or authoritative assessments of vaccination.

Did they just completely edit this article and keep it in the same spot? Am I crazy, or did they add new developments to the old post???

Did the guy have the heart attack BEFORE or AFTER receiving the shot?

If a woman with a pre-existing heart condition died within hours of receiveing the vaccination, could it be possible that the man also had a pre-existing, undiagnosed condition? Or that it was a contributing factor to the heart attack?

Seems like a pretty big coincidence to me.

No shots here, no thanks. I'll take the flu and take my chances.

Is this a serious question? What's next? Did the guy get the shot before or after dying?

Yes actually, they did. You can see it in the title editing.

(attached image)

As much as people complain about The Local starting new threads all the time, I think a new thread would have been a better solution than this. Linked to the old one, of course.

According to the radio the heart attack began before he got the shot (thus the findings of the autopsy). A heart attack is not necessarily a sudden, painful and immediately fatal occurence resulting in cardiac arrest. Your classic myocardiac infarction involves the blockage of a coronary artery and the resulting reduced blood and therefore oxygen supply; it's only when the further complication of fibrillation sets in that the patient is in immedate danger of cardiac arrest.

Let's keep it simple, always helps to cut through the BS. Who / what do you trust? Big Pharma, Big Government or Mother Nature?

Many Doctors are 'fed' misinformation by the drug manufacturers. Politicians by lobbyists etc. Just look at how many people are on Prozac and all kinds of other stuff. Pharmaceuticals is one of the biggest most profitable businesses globally. making Billions in profit each year. They can stick their Pig Flu shot where the sun don't shine. (but not up mine !)

- 4,000 Americans have been killed by H1N1 swine flu.

- seasonal flu kills 36,000 Americans

- Aspirin kills 400% more people than H1N1 swine flu

- H1N1 swine flu may be safer than aspirin.

- you are ten times more likely to die in a car accident this year than be killed by swine flu.

- Over 400,000 Americans die each year from smoking

- 100,000 Americans die every year from adverse reactions to FDA-approved prescription drugs.

- if you get a swine flu vaccine injection on the same day you buy a lotto ticket, you have a greater chance of buying a winning lotto ticket than being saved by the swine flu vaccine

http://www.infowars.com/aspirin-kills-400-more-people-than-h1n1-swine-flu/