Berlin S-Bahn chaos set to continue

Somehow I think I'm glad I'm not in Berlin at the moment.

Since when has either BVG or DB been private?

and I thought that the S-bahn was run by DB rather than BVG?

The s-bahn at the weeeknd was extremely full and stuffed with sweaty tourists. Thnak God I a have alternative routes to use such as the U-Bahn and bus. I hope the get it back up and running effectivley soon in time for the influx of German tourists during hte school holidays.

I wonder are they wokring 24 hours of the checks to get them done quicker or just the usual mon - friday 8 hour day?

Could someone explain to me how this would actually pan out if this suggestion was implemented?

I presume that DB Netze owns the tracks, not S-Bahn Berlin-does anybody know for sure?

If it's DB Netze then technically it's possible for another operator to use them for an equivalent service (though practically impossible without massive investment and they'd pretty much have to buy S-Bahn Berlin's rolling stock anyway).

If it's S-Bahn Berlin's own track then nobody can use it except -Bahn Berlin and they'd surely keep running the (profitable) trains at the most profitable times (bye bye Nachtverkehr and outlying stations) so the service would diminish and of course.

I can't see it ever happening but it's interesting to think about how it might be implemented in practice.

I doubt it.

We need the S Bahn version of the cones hotline. They will probably be starting on the first one next week once the guy with the right spanner comes back off sick leave.

8 minutes to change was enough - 18 is bang out of order.

And then there is always some middle age chav banging the window shut whilst whining es zieht. We are not in the Victorian era anymore - a 'sensitive disposition' is no longer a sign of social refinement. And whilst I'm at it - go wash your hair!

@ Murphaph.

DB netze owns the tracks and stations but are now a separate company that will remain in 100% public ownership if and when DB as an operator has some of its shares sold to the public sector.

Any operator winning a tender to operate the Berlin S Bahn would use the same tracks and stations, paying acces charges.

They'd 99% buy or lease the rolling stock from DB.

The operator of the Hamburg U Bahn has already expressed an interest in bidding.

I don't see any objection to someone other than DB running the S Bahn service - the regional trains run by ODEG and NEB are very good. The problem is that DB have become lazy and complacent, and need to have it made clear to them that if they don't run the S Bahn properly, there are other companies that will.

Thanks MT. I wasn't sure of that.

In principle I'd have no objection to a new operator but I'm less hasty to condemn DB and their running of the S-Bahn here given my experience on rail 'transport' in Ireland. If Irish Rail was half as good as DB it'd be a massive improvement. It was annoying this morning though as I arrived on the platform of the Ringbahn to find the next train in 12 minutes!!!

Any idea how long more this is to continue for? I tried the S-bahn website but i could not see anything. Just that the trains are only running a 20 minute takt.

The Ring is running closest to normal (though sometimes trains go "missing" from the five-minute interval in the morning and evening), the main north/south and east/west lines are running every 20 minutes (though obviously more frequently through the centre), but some of the "fringe lines" (e.g. S85 Hohen Neuendorf/Grunau) aren't running at all.

Latest info here:

http://www.s-bahn-berlin.de/bauinformation...etriebslage.htm

On the bright side, if you ever wanted to manhandle some Jehovah's Witnesses, some 50,000 of them are in town attending a convention at the Olympic Stadium from tomorrow through Sunday, and all of them are expected to take public transport. Those packed trains should be a perfect opportunity for some "oops, sorry I fell on you - lost my balance".

Or dress up as Michael Jackson - that should freak them out a bit

That won't work - they all have 5-day passes as part of their convention package (at least that's what I read in this morning's paper).

Jeff,you've officially turned German with that reply

I wonder if Prince will be there?

It is due to last until September becuas eof the sheeer number of trains that need to bes tested.

That is despite borrowing in extra staff and extra equipment.

I travelled all day on the S-Bahn yesterday. No problems. Night services are cut. But during the day, unless you wish to go somewhere exotic like... na sagen wir... Zeuthen or Königs Wusterhausen or somewhere, then they seem to be O.K.

But then, who the HEL wants to go to Königs Wusterhausen???

Hmm. I suggest you get out more. Try viewing the "Meetings and events" thread here.I wonder if the red cross will have there nnormal blood donation stand there?

Must admit, never looked. I am a member of four "Vereine" so that kind of keeps me busy any way.

HAL9000 will clearly never turn up in person to any meet up's as its much safe for him to hide behind his Keyboard obviously

Was talking to a supervisor from the S-Bahn workshops yesterday. They have a more serious problem according to him. IF they want to keep to this target of checking trains weekly, they need a quarter more trains, and to nearly DOUBLE the engineering staff, just to keep ROUGHLY to the normal timetable.

If they do not get the extra trains, and staff, (which have to be BUILT and trained first, even IF they get the approval) this chaos will last until they end the weekly inspections.

And this only applied IF none of the trains actualy need any repairs as a result of the checks.

So we can expect to increase the price of the monthly car again? Damn, if I remember correctly the price has almost doubled in the last 10 years.

No. Mores the pity. In Peking, heads would LITERALY be rolling by now. Even if the trains are not.

Do you have any details on how you can claim for compensation? And if you have an annual card, can you claim for each month the disruption continues? (wishful thinking on my part, I know!)

I wonder how long the S-bahn between Ostbahnhof andZoo will remain out of action?

This will cause major problems especially with the World Athlethics on in August. Maybe they will try to get something better going by then.... alway the optimist that I am!

What about if one has a bicycle ticket ( 8 euro/month) and they asking people not to travel with bikes on train, does one get compo back for that? I could not see anthting on the website....

Actually i've been hearing "2 years" from the rumour mill, direction testing workshop...

This crazy situation makes me so mad, and I don't even use the S-Bahn regularly. I feel bad for anyone visiting Berlin this summer. We, as locals, can find our way around and know of alternative routes, but tourists won't stand a chance!

It's bloody embarrassing.

''I wonder how long the S-bahn between Ostbahnhof and Zoo will remain out of action?''

they said at least 2,5 weeks but I think more than that...

RE 1 will operate between ostbahnhof and potsdam, from 6 am to 8 pm ... no bikes allowed :-/

serissima, you can't as far as I'm aware. I posted the news articles this morning as a separate thread - because they have a good map and lots more - with better title (maybe). It'll prolly get combined.

I tried to get the sbahn home from work at bahnhof zoo on friday night and it was absolutely chaotic. drunk german jungs punching the glass of the conductor's booth, yelling, screaming, madness. Say what you want about the trains, but I do feel a little bit for the station staff.

S-Bahn trains may be out between Ostbahnhof and Zoo, but you can use the regional trains, though they aren't as frequent as the S-bahn and don't stop at every stop, but it's better than nothing - and as far as I know there is no problem taking bikes on board.

all east west trains (S Bahn) are officially cancelled between zoo and ostkreuz according to the radio.. only 1/3 of all berlin S bahns are running... in all seriousness if DB dosent want a damn serious incedent on their hands they need to rectify this problem fast...

Blue, there is no "fast".

Despite pulling in staff and equipment, there is simply too much to do.

The implications of all this?

Big, not just in Berlin but Europe wide.

Bearing in mind the accident the other week in Italy.

Why should we privatise the railway?

What are the benefits or negatives of a private railway?

What is the balance between an operator and the regulator?

Man I cannot wait for when the berliners start to burn things...its gonna be awesome. Petrol is your friend!"

That might be a nice motive for the German's blinddogswhale in September.

What is the result of the privatisation of basic public services?

Stalking the Berlin public transport threads again I see.

Did anyone invite you to bring your soap box along and hijack the thread?

So not cool.

err who?

your right i just hope things get back to normal or at least as best as can be expected... And seriously i think if S Bahn cannot do the job then maybe another private provider can... I heard this morning there are 2 or so that have vested an interest?...

When it gets to the point that the Demokratik Republik of KreüzKölln decides to start burning things in protest.. then watch out... hahahahaha (after all they protest every other damn thing why not this...)

Sure there are other companies that would love the Berlin S Bahn Contract.

Hamburg's public transporter Hochbahn has exprssed a clear intention.

The BVG may be interested perhaps and I dare say Arriva.

Arriva are facing similar but smaller scale issues with train safety testing on local rail in Brandenburg though the key difference is they weren't caught lying to the Bundesamt.

DB has messed up big time on the Berlin S-Bahn and at best they are on a final chance.

I think they should let the contract run though and objectively view bids when it is up for renewl

The balance bewteen operators and regulators is always moving.

Right now the regulator is getting tougher; that has clear implications for profitability and questions how public transport should be organised.

Top post there HAL, that basicly sums it up.

Quite right!!! that about sums it up Hal... Greed in its purest form...

Hal has it precisely right, and Blue says it in one word -- greed. One only needs to see what DB management -- under Hartmut Mehdorn -- did to the DB across the country in their planned 'get rich quick' scheme to go to privatization.. Where once each small town had a train station that was in effect a small economic center providing employment, a safe place to meet and an integral part of a social institution that contributed to a national social integration and sense of national community, they have left run down buildings in shambles. All this was to cut costs, do 'window dressing' for the planned share price, and add to the cash available to pay out huge bonuses upon privatization. (Not to mention to pay millions of Euros to the brilliant financial advisers so they could invest in worthless US and UK 'securities' and similar 'sure investments' such as 'collateralized debt obligations' and 'credit default swaps' -- all fraudulent schemes of monetary manipulation.) Then they turned to extracting as much cash as they could out of subsidiaries, such as the S-Bahn, which of course can be done by taking away the cash reserves that were there to cover careful maintenance, rolling stock replacement, asset preservation, and then they engaged in reductions in older and experienced- professional staff to cut costs as well. This is a national tragedy, and a real tragedy for Berlin itself. The S-Bahn was a beautifully engineered system, so well thought out, built and run that it took WWII and the 1961 erection of the Wall to shut it down; at least it was then resilient enough to 'bounce back'. Now Mr. Mehdorn, DB and the management may have irreparably damaged it. Someone should look seriously at Sections 266 and 305 of the StGB about prosecuting these commercial / financial vandals.

If one needed any clear proof that privatization of valuable national assets is a corrupt and bankrupt concept, this current S-Bahn tragedy is ample evidence. As usual, the profits go to the private sector, the losses and costs to the taxpayer and common citizen. This is an equation that will never work.

You go there Comrade Rob!

What's going to happen after the Bundestagswahl?

Anyone confident there's going to be a government not ideologically committed to further privatisation?

Monkstown, You will probably be able to buy shares in Bundesregierung AG. Or at least some form of non-collateralized marketable derivative of the Bundestag. ;-)

The S Bahn in Berlin is still not going to be working?

who gives a toss? Don't you people have bikes?

Except when one wants to travel fom Berlin-Altglienicke to Grunewald. 2 hours by bike and over 30 kms. I bet that person gives a toss!

Probably the 1.3 million people (including the cyclists) who use the network.

Speaking of cyclists: it's starting to get uncomfortable for them on the trains now-this morning a couple of people had a good go at one of them. Don't they read the papers/see the news/or even hear the announcements every few minutes on the platform telling them NO BIKE ALLOWED during this mess-human beings need priority on the limited space available on all modes!

Whilst travelling through the centre of Berlin on the S2 a couple of times today, I was surprised how quiet the platforms at e.g. Friedrichstrasse and Potsdamer Platz were. Obviously there wasn't the usual large numbers changing from the Ostbahnhof to Zoo lines. But then when you hit The Ring either side - wham! That's where everybody was ending up!

To be fair to BVG, the journey planning software on their website seems to be up-to-date with the situation, and will recommend the additional replacement RE trains, buses, and trams.

I pity the poor tourists, especially the green ones with only a network map and a rudimentary grasp of German. It might be a valid money-earner to take a laptop to an internet hot-spot at a central station and use the BVG website to give advice to flustered English-speaking tourists

Not everyone is a hippie.

Brilliant idea, Serenissima! I have too much time on my hands AND a laptop! I could give REAL advice to the tourists I like (i.e. cute Eastern European chix) and crap advice to tourists from say, ENGLAND!! (just kidding, guv!).

db

I know you're really kidding friend, but don't think I haven't been tempted to 'help' tourists myself with a bit of helpful insight (Neu Wache? Oh yeah, that was built for Old Fritz as a wash-house so he could have a bath immediately before appearing at ceremonies on Unter den Linden).

Hey bikers, how close you are to the point but without actually getting it! If you look seriously at the Deutsche Bahn "Call a Bike" service ( http://www.deutschebahn.com/site/bahn/en/t.../callabike.html ) maybe you will now realize the whole objective of DB may be to run down the DB and the S-Bahn to such a pathetic level of service and non-safety that all you will be left with in the end is DB Call a Bike. (Slowly they take away a small slice at a time of your Wurst until soon all you have is the string and they have all the Wurst.) Take a DB InterCity Bike on your next trip to Munich!

I don't mind taking a bike from Alex to Zoo, but spare me the idea that this is suitable for the "Zug von Millionen..." of tourists and citizens who simply wish to get to work easily and dependably. ("Seht, wie der Zug von Millionen/Endlos aus Nächtigem quillt./Bis euer Sehnsucht Verlangen/ Himmel und Nacht überschwillt.")

No, I am not really a "Comrade" as such, actually reasonably middle of the road in most respects, but this all is pushing me to the point that I want to cry about that the privatization kleptocracy has done to us and the vital national patrimony.

<<Hey bikers, how close you are to the point but without actually getting it!>>

What are you talking about? The Call a Bike service is great and I think more people should take advantage of it. The point of the service is to take quick, short trips within zones A&B, DB doesn't suggest you ride to Munich. In fact, you shouldn't take one outside of the Ring. A trip yesterday from Alexanderplatz to Potsdamer Platz cost me 86 euro cents, a price neither BVG nor a taxi can compete with. I am an occasional user in Berlin, but have also used the service in Cologne, Hamburg and Munich. All of my visitors think the service is great, you just have to figure out how to use it.

You've sold me! Do you have any advice on what you have found out about how to use the service please?

Oh Lord, I have created a monster...

Hmm, I had a pretty fast journey from NK (sonnenallee) to Hbf this morning thanks to an S-Bahn train from Stuttgart (they are operating a special shuttle Suedkreuz-Potsdamer Platz-Hbf (low level)-Gesundbrunnen that really is ideal and should maybe run all the time!)-was quite surreal seeing S-Bahns from Stuttgart and Munich side by side in Suedkreuz! The driver even had a really strong Schwabisch accent to boot. The BVG website lists it as an S21 with the DB logo rather than the S logo! How stange-I was expecting a RE type train, not one from Baden Wuertemberg but it's all good!

Article (in German): http://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/Berliner...;art270,2853810

I guess the Stuttgart and Munich trains use the overhead catenaries rather than the third rail, which is why they're running them through Hbf rather than Friedrichstrasse?

Yup, exactly the reason-Berlin's legacy system uses the 3rd rail (I think only Hamburg has the same 'issue' with its SBahn).

Makes me wonder why SBahn berlin doesn't buy a couple of units to keep this shuttle in play all the time until the Pilzkonzept can be fully delivered (many years from now!). If possible I always take an RE from SK to Hbf as it's so fast that way.

Does not make any difference. They are using the S-Bahn Netz. NONE of Berlins S-Bahn Netz has overhead power. Where do you think they are going to fit the pylons in the tunnels, which are only centemeters above the train roof?

IF they are using overhead, then they are using the IC, or IR lines. which, as IC and RE are not effected by the faults would make no sense.

Okay, I'm drawing conclusions from across the ocean, but if the Stuttgart/Munich S-Bahn trains are stopping in Hauptbahnhof tief, they're not taking the north-south S-bahn line, which runs through Friedrichstrasse. (Also, the other stops--Suedkreuz, Potsdamer Platz and Gesundbrunnen--all have IC/RE stations.) My guess as to why they needed the out-of-town S-bahns to do this is that they've already increased the number of REs on the East-West stadtbahn to carry some of the people who would have taken the now-missing S-bahns, but they also want to run more trains between Suedkreuz and Gesundbrunnen to make up for the reduced north-south S-bahn service (I believe the S1/S2/S25 is still running, but not as frequently as before), and don't have any extra regional trains left.

ETA: here's another article (in German again) detailing that they are in fact using the long-distance lines and not the S-Bahn lines: http://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/Verkehr-...rt18614,2852827

You HAVE read the link? http://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/Berliner...;art270,2853810

Interesting, in your link the train in the phot is indeed over head powered. This means they can not use the S-Bahn lines.

As you say they must just be takinmg the preasure off the R.E.

BUT that means the first link is wrong.

UNLESS they have two different types of trains. One third rail for the tunnels, and one overhead for the main stretch.

Must go and look on Saturday.

Well, there are two North-South tunnels: the original S-Bahn tunnel that goes through Friedrichstrasse and the new long-distance tunnel that they built a few years ago when they were converting Lehrter Bahnhof into Hauptbahnhof. The regional and intercity trains that stop on the lower platform in Hauptbahnhof (like most ICEs headed to or from Leipzig) use the new tunnel, which I presume has space for the catenary lines. Apparently that's the one the article about the train driver was talking about.

Hmm. Appears the S-Bahn are not the ONLY ones confussed by all this. The press seem to have joined in.

It's really quite simple. There are 2 sets of tunnels. One is for Berlin Sbahn (3rd rail only), one carries the RE and IC(E) trains. The RE/IC(E) tunnel is empty most of the time as anyone who uses Hbf (tief) will know. This is a very sensible way to supplement the S1/S2 section albeit indirectly. They should probably advertise it a bit better though.

English article on the general situation: http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/id...E56J2J020090720

Update (in German): http://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/Verkehr-...rt18614,2854430 Apparently they also found a broken wheel on a regional train so the Eisenbahnamt is extending its inspections.

The article also talks about S-Bahn staff (including drivers) working to direct people, and about the S-Bahn printing some informational fliers in English explaining the situation and the alternatives. And the S-Bahn blame the VBB for not publicizing the new S21 (our favorite line, with the Stuttgart and Munich trains going along the IC/RE lines through Hbf tief).

More cyclist muppets on the Bahn this morning with their bikes. People left standing on the platform while the space for a dozen people went to a piece of metal with wheels. Inconsiderate idiots.

As if the train problem weren't enough, they are now pulling many of the replacement buses out of service as well.

Replacement buses on S-Bahn routes pulled off road for repairs

To be fare that has nothing to do with the S-Bahn.

That is just sloppy, lazy, cheap skate bastard firms who want to make as much money as possible before one of their death traps actualy DOES kill someone.

Actually it does, as many of these buses are currently being used to make-up for the Sbahn problems.

It is the responsibility of the companys that own the busses to keep the busses in order. NOT that of the people hiring.

If you get on a bus as a passenger, you are in effect hiring that bus, legaly speaking, and I then stop it for having no breaks should YOU loose your licence?

Because THAT is what you are saying by blaming the S-Bahn for the condition of these busses.

IF the busses were OWNED by the S-Bahn, THEN you could blame them.

DK is guilty that the Sbahn is not working.

In that case, thanks for fixing things so quickly, Darkknight!

I really got stuck yesterday but it worked out well in the end, I met a man from Iran and we talked about nothing in particular. It was quite tedious. He wanted to know where I lived but we didn't get much further.

How long should I allow for a journey from Hauptbahnhof to Potsdam under the current circumstances as I'm rapidly getting confused with the S-Bahn, Regional thing?

Under normal circumstances the RE1 takes ~25 minutes from Bln Hbf to Pdm Hbf, but I'd check with

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/e

There was a story on (US) National Public Radio's All Things Considered yesterday about it: transcript | audio

This all makes me feel very ill...

Moving to Berlin in like 2 weeks and my job seems to involve moving around the city to different primary schools... ahhhhh ... delaaaaaaays.

I know it's a bad situation but are there REALLY big problems moving around? I'm from Ireland and I normally wait about half an hour for my bus which should come every ten minutes.. it's always late, never arrives at the destination on time, and we literally only use buses (well I do anyway)- so there's me looking forward to Berlin public transport and this all happens..

grrrr. I hope it's resolved soon-ish but if it will ultimately improve the situation, then there's nothing to be done other than fix it!

Could I really buy a bike and cycle ...everywhere? I see people are talking about refunds for the Monatskarte... so it wouldn't be worth buying one?

Coming from ireland, even the crippled S-Bahn will appear 100 times better than the DART etc. Anyway, in 2 weeks hopefully the Stadtbahn will indeed have S-Bahns running on it again.

I agree that even waiting an extra 10 minutes in Berlin is a lot less painful than standing at a wet bus stop hoping and praying that a 19A will come witihn the next half hour!

Even with the inconveniences there are several work arounds in place. Use the U-bahn as much as possible.

In THEORY, most of the S-Bahn will be running virtualy as "normal" from Monday.

Hmmm...

However U-7, and a couple of the bus routes will be having problems.

The problem is not that there might be a government that is committed or not to the privatisation of public services. The problem is that the people in Berlin in general have bought into this kind of garbage. People should go in large and repeated mass actions to demand that the S-Bahn service be given back to the Berliner Verkehrsbetriebe. It's simply absurd to keep thinking that any kind of profiteering company whether it be the present greedy fools in charge of the S-Bahn or any other such company be allowed to continue running the show. But people have this in their hands. If they want to be sheep following the pied piper of contracting out public services to private profiteering firms then they are to be blamed and not the profiteers themselves.

"Given BACK"???

Why? It NEVER belonged to B.V.G.

Before 1945 it belonged to Deutsche Reichsbahn. Then until 1991 to the Government of the D.D.R.

It belonged to Deutsche Reichsbahn until the early 80's, service was then suspended in west berlin due to passenger boycott.

Between the mid 80's and 1991 the West Berlin s-bahn belonged to BVG, whilst the east remained with DR

O.K missed that bit.

Fact remains that private is best.

British Rail would never have existed without L.N.E.R, G.W.R, etc. All PRIVATE.

The problem today with "private" is, they have seperated to many things out. Platforms belong to ABC. Tracks to DEF. Trains to GHI, Motor units to BWU, etc etc.

ONE private rail company doing EVERYTHING. As with L.N.E.R etc. NOT a hundred different companys trying to run ONE rail service.

BR was created because LNER, GWR etc. were bankrupt.

Infact LNER, GWR et al were themselves the result of government action in the 1920's because the smaller rail companies were bankrupt

Still better to have all your eggs in one basket, whether private or "Government".

And the bankruptcys were as a result of what?

Was it bad management or lack of passengers?

Lack of passengers is NOT a problem that the S-Bahn have got.

bad management and two world wars

Yes. World wars did not help much.

But the Berlin S-Bahn has had HOW many years to recover? Yet STILL the act as if Honecker was still running them.

They seem to be unable to grasp the fact that "private" mens YOU pay, OR you get the customers to do so.

Bloody tourists and newcomers do nor help. See the comments on this site about "dodging fares".

NOW you pay!!

I was wondering if anyone saw the ticket inspectors during all of this? Did they have the cajones to hassle people during the service cancellation?

VERY rare to see ticket inspectors on the S-Bahn any way.

I use it every day, and have done for 12 years, and I have seen ticket inspectors three times in all.

I'll be in Berlin in a few days. I'm going from the Schoenfeld airport to Alexanderplatz (to the Circus Hostel). Will I be able to us the S-Bahn per the hostel's directions on their website? If not, anyone know an alternate route? Thanks to any locals who can help me out!

According to the S-Bahn, and the news on RBB, the Schönefeld trains are running again from today. There MAY be delays, but you should be able to get there. Do not plan on getting a seat though.

There are also busses running from Schönefeld to city center. (Zoo). From there you can get all kinds of busses and the U-Bahn.

Wow! That's about the only place I ever see them... on the ring near schoenhauser allee and on the main line arount tiergarten!

It is the ring I use. Well that and the S-1. As I say only 3 timesin 12 years.

U-Bahn is a dfifferent story.

Take the Airport express: it is not affected and it stops in Alexanderplatz.

And it's about 10 minutes faster.

There should be a board in the baggage claim area in Schoenefeld that lists the upcoming train departures. In addition to the S9 (if it's running) there should be a Regional Express train (RE7) to Dessau or Belzig and/or a Regionalbahn (RB14) to Nauen. Just don't get on a train to Wünsdorf-Waldstadt or Senftenberg, because those go in the wrong direction. IIRC there are two regional trains an hour, and even under the best of circumstances the S9 only runs every 20 minutes, so there's only a small window when taking the S-Bahn is faster than waiting for the next regional train.

The regional trains are included in the same BVG ticket as the S-Bahn (and U-Bahn, and bus, and tram...) Note that you have to get a Berlin ABC ticket, because Schoenefeld is now in Zone C.

If you want some advance info, you can search for the SXF->Alexanderplatz itinierary around your expected arrival time at http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

You don't need a 'full' ABC ticket so depending on the questioner's intentions (for example if they want to buy a 7 day pass) it may well be cheaper to buy their required (for example) 7 day pass and just an A/C anschlussfahrkarte for ?1.40. That ticket enables you to use your regular AB pass and just 'dip into' zone C for a single journey. I use them when going to SXF/Potsdam etc.

As for ticket inpectors-as already mentioned the Ring between Frankfurter Allee and Schoenhauser Allee is riddled with them, paeticualrly that big fat guy with the short hair. Have also been checked on the Ring near Hallensee but never along the Suedring. Also been checked on the Stadtbahn a couple of times.

Right, you need an ABC for that journey, but if you're not going outside the city for the rest of your stay and you're planning on getting a multi-day pass, you could buy an AB pass and an extension ticket for the journey in from the airport (and presumably another when you go back). If you just want to buy a ticket from SXF to Alex, that'd be a Berlin ABC single ticket.

I work for an English Train Operator, People who go on about the private sector being better are talking utter nonsense. In England the reality is

1: No Cheap Walk up fares London to say somewhere in the middle of the country...for example Crewe in the Potteries is £211.00 return thats about 230 Euro

2: Old trains falling apart and often breaking down

3: The most complex ticketing structure in the world

4:No standards for things like Disability access or wheelchair ramps

5: Loads of stations unmanned at night and becoming hotbeds for crime

6: When buying new fleets, UK train operators bought similar models and types of rolling stock, but never ensured compatibility between sets so that many trains and carraiges cannot be coupled together, thus limiting their use.

7: By segregating the catering operations, costs have risen rapidly so a chocolate bar on a train costs 3 times what it does in a supermarket.

8: Mass overcrowding of certain routes on a regular basis and because the service has been run rather than cancelled the operator is never penalised

9: Huge patchwork infrastructure upgrades that are never delivered on tiume and cost the taxpayer Billions of £

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

Most of the things going wrong with privatization in the UK are founded in a lack of "oversight" though. In Germany, privatization of public transport has been happening for decades (in fact, there have always been private railway companies in Germany, and there are some that have been in operation for a century now), but most of the problems you mention are addressed by standards and ticket prices being handled by tariff area associations, and rolling stock being mandated to be of a certain quality/age/etc in the initial tender.

Crew is in Cheshire. The "Potteries" are Staffordshire.

Follow-up to my post a few days back; the S-bahn was no problem from Schonenfeld to Alexanderplatz. We got a seat since it seemed to be the beginning of the line, and there was a ticket checker on the train. So here we are in Berlin. Anything to do this weekend we should know about? We are going to Checkpoint Charlie and the Stasi Museum today.

There is also a "Checkpoint Charlie Museum" but that's not very impressive considering what it costs. The Jewish Museum in Kreuzberg is a much better proposition, and the Pergamon on Museum Island is amazing.

Hi again. We did the CPC museum. Crowded and hot! I liked the display honoring the 20 year anniversary of the fall of the Wall outdoors at Alexanderplatz better. Getting my son to do museums is a bit of work, and he definitely won't do any shopping. We did go into Saturn to look at cell phones, however

I heard the Karl Marx alley off Alexanderplatz was interesting? And the beach/park off the SudBahnHoff (not sure if I got that right)?

Okay, off to bed. Just ate some good Tikka Masala. I am enjoying the wide variety of ethnic food. Don't get too much of that where I come from.

Something that may be of interest to note on the general S-Bahn thing.

Do NOT trust the bus drivers to give you relible information.

I was on the M11 yesterday, from Oscar Helene Heim right to route end at Schöneweide. The WHOLE way people were asking him if the S-Bahn at Schöneweide was working, and if the S1 was as well. He answered no to them all, yet I had used S1 to get to Rathaus Steglitz, as part of getting to Oaskar Helene Heim, and I used the S-Bahn from Spandau to get to Schöneweide earlier in the day. (AND after I had finished in Schöneweide AFTER this bus journey, I used it to get back to Zoo.)

So FORGET asking bus drivers.

I really like it for the socialist realism architecture - some photos I took last week are here. Its worth starting at Strausberger Platz and walking down to Frankfurter Tor, and on the right hand side at no.72 is an interesting cafe Cafe Sybille which has an exhibition on the history of Karl Marx Allee - does a good cup of coffee too!

This is a topic about the S-Bahn troubles. NOT a tourist guide.

Or have I as a REAL German, missunderstood the English here?

just trying to be helpful katieliz is only in town for a few days, the tourism posts won't last long, unlike the s-bahn chaos.

O.K I WILL give you that one.

Please enjoy our city. You are welcome ANY time.

Danke!

S1 was not badly affected by the problems, it was never stopped and in the worse days it was only slowed down (every 20 minutes). I live close to one station and take it regularly.

so, are the trains running back as normal this week?

Same here. EVERY day. And get woken up by it most days.

I just arrived in Berlin yesterday and I'm well aware of the situation with the S-Bahn, but I'm not certain of the current status. I know that many of the lines were stopped and then service returned (at least somewhat) but what's it like today? I start my language classes tomorrow morning and I'm just wondering if it's safe to use the S-Bahn as usual or whether the trains will be packed and thus I should find an alternate route or leave extra time, etc.

Thanks for any help, I don't want to be late for my first day!

Bad news, everyone: According to RBB (in German), half the S-Bahn trains currently rolling are to be pulled out of service because they've discovered defects on brake cylinders. It's like deja vu all over again...

Depending how long they've know about this and only just announced it it might be the straw that breaks the camel's back and cost them the contract to run Berlin's S-Bahn.

They discovered this afternoon that they have to change the brake cylinders on most of their trains. The announcement came at about 6pm. There will be no trains between Alexanderplatz and Westkreuz, no trains to Spandau, trains every 10 minutes on the ring and every 20 minutes on the rest of hte network.

More info (in German) can be found here, the S-Bahn website is not available, and I did not find information in English.

As of this morning the radio has confirmed that the Chaos is set to continue.. 840 something trains are out of service or effectively only 1/3 of all S Bahnn trains are now running.. Most trains are running every 20 minutes!! some still every 10 Minutes. Alexanderplatz east west trains are cancelled, the Notfallplan has effectively as of 4 am this morning according to BVG.de been activated.

I believe this will be worse that last time as everyone is home from the childrens holidays, millions of tourists in the city, and everyone is back to work.... this is set to be a a really dangerous combination.. ugh!I think this might be it.. or mass protests in the streets either one might honestly happen..

Time for DB to sue the engine and wagon builders I reckon.

Doubtful - the S-Bahn have no one to blame but themselves this time.

From the Berliner Morgenpost:[Deutsche] Bahn member Homburg has already answered the question of blame. It is clear, according to Homburg, that the problem with the brake cylinders does not involve defective design, that is, mistakes by the manufacturers. "This was a failure by S-Bahn Berlin, which probably has its roots in the year 2004," says Homburg.It has also has been reported that the warranty period for the trains affected by the faulty wheels (the original problem) has expired, after S-Bahn management missed the chance to report potential defects in 2007, preferring to cover the incident up instead.

I presume this fault affects the 481 series again a I haven't seen a single 481 class train in service today. Only 482's on the Ring. This is too much-the S Bahn contract should be torn up and put out to tender by the city. Today was absolutely horrible-Zug faellt aus all over the place and 10 minute delays stood in overfull trains.

Well, that was great, woke up this morning and left for work at 8.30. it was 10.45 by the time i get to work. They actually changed the S2 route I think, it didn't stop at Gesudbrunnen ( sorry about spelling I know its horrible ). Since I speak little to no German I was lucky to even make it to work today.

Any idea how long this is going to continue for?

honestly we have no idea... the last time this happened all hell broke loose and it was all messed up for weeks it seemed.. as it is only one day into this mess and most of the general population is either dumbstruck, or crying in disbelief i would advise you to find an alternate route to work...

Ha?? And just HOW do you think a Land (NOT city) which has been told it can not take on any more debt or it will be declared bankrupt going to do things like...oh you know PAY for this OTHER bankrupt oversized hornby set, just so they can play trains?

They will be told where to go if they try and steal MY tax to pay for it.

the S2's are certainly not running as normal, it caught me out today too. From BVG website, they are running:

S2 - (Nord) Bernau - Schönhauser Allee

S2 - (Süd) Blankenfelde - Potsdamer Platz

so they don't go to Gesundbrunnen at all. Not sure how long its supposed to continue - the emergency timetables posted in stations (on S2 route again) only go to Friday night but I can't really see it being solved that quickly. It was total chaos in Berlin today, packed trains to the point people couldn't get on. I didn't even get the impression a real timetable was being run to.

Ans you STILL get the dumb asses that want to fill the bloody things with push bikes. Do they take your brains out when you buy a bycicle?

When I said "tear up the contract" I meant they should sue DBAG for breach of contract and get their money back, then put it out to tender again.

As for the immediate situation, I hope they get those replacement S Bahn wagons up from Munich/Stuttgart again and run them from Suedkreuz to Gesundbrunnen via Hbf again - that worked reasonably well last time.

Think I'll take the bus/U7 tomorrow :-(

Replacement wagons from down South were still here and runniing last weekend. What has NOT been reported as far as I can tell/find, is that the S-Bahn was still not running normaly from the LAST problem. They were oly 3/4 (+-) "normal".

Changing the cylinders is not as much work as testing the wheels. Unfortunately they don't have a lot of spare parts, and delivery takes something like four weeks. They may get some spares from the U-Bahn, it seems that some of the trains use the same brakes.

You should look for alternative routes, just use one of the route planners at VBB, BVG and S-Bahn. All three sites use the same database so it should not matter which of them you use, the BVG one seems a bit slow at the moment. You should also exclude the S-Bahn from the search, it is enabled by default.

good idea.. Listening to the radio this morning they were talking to Wowi and he said that in a sense the people must deal with the problem because there is no real alternative than the above mentioned... (VBB, BVG, and S-Bahn)

The confusion is just beginning the S1 seems to be the only train running from Alex through to the middle of the city and even that one is unreliable and only a short train... this is going to get reeeal bad real quick folks..

Heard on RBB news just earlier, that they can not promise ANYTHING before December. And it may be Saturday before Emergency time tables are published.

Thanks for the updates guys.

It seems like this whole thing has been one big Fail.

On a good note this morning I was only waiting for 2 minutes for a train, and the S2 is back in Gesundbrunnen, I hope it stays there .

One big fail... oooh ya on a massive scale.. this is only day two, wait till about week 3..... grooan

You were lucky the S2 was there.. but dont count on it being there always, all the scedules are totally screwed up, the wife was saying the cars are so overcrowded and almost dangerous with the amounts of people in them,(due to the trains that do come are driving about every 20 minutes in theory) timetables are not being followed, and some trains are showing up 20 or 30 minutes past when their supposed to be there because of the sheeer masses of people they must unload and pickup.. on the S1 this morning in wittenau.. the driver came over the intercom and tried to force as many people as possible into the Ubahn.. the sound of panik in his voice was quite noticeable... this is going to be real fun... hahahahah

In conclusion find alternate modes of transport to work, school, etc..

To crry on theme I mentioned earlier, I saw what was nearly the first lynching in Berlin since 1945 this morning when some brain dead idiot tried to get his bike aboard.

pity I did not have my usual couple of meters of rope with me.

Yesterday morning I forgave the ignorant cyclists who may ot have caught the news but this morning, no way. I took the bus and U Bahn today so missed out on the Ringbahn fun but I guarantee some twat tried to squeeze his bike on "because he has a ticket" for it. A bike takes up the space of 3 people but try explaining that to a militant cyclist!

During this crisis myself and about 99% of the population of berlin has no lust to deal with idiot bikers.. they do not need to bring their bikes on an already overpacked s-bahn.. you have a bike RIDE IT TO WORK! (that was the general consensus being screamed by at least 4 people this morning on the S1) hahahaha..

Hmm. My experience was ALSO on the S1, at Feuerbachstraße.

You know we should all carry a reccognition sign/badge.

"HEY I am a member of Toytown Germany as well!".... or something.

exactly... hahahahaha

Two more trains from Munich are on their way.

If Munich was the Hauptstadt der Bewegung is Berlin now Hauptstadt des Stillstandes?

Best joke i heard yesterday was about Berlin S-Bahn right now taking down the flexible displays, and replacing them with fixed destination signs for the individual lines - and someone suggesting for that that the new signs should just read "no service. bus stop in front of the station.".

thats about the reality of the situation.. ya.. hahahahahaha

Fair play to the BVG though-they are able to react so quickly. My GF noticed that the metro buses are running every 5 minutes even late in the evening to pick up the slack. It's a testamant to the extensive nature of the U Bahn/Tram/Bus network that you can take so many S Bahn wagons out of service in one go and the city ca still function, albeit not as smoothly.

Actually SOMEONE is doing their job excellently. I have had no problems travelling,. Although I will admit to sheer LUCK that I happened to arrive on the platform at Rathaus Steglitz exactly as the train pulled into the station today.... TWICE!

One thing I HAVE noticed, that by all logic SHOULD be opposite, is, like last time, the roads are actualy more QUIET than normal.

Is that just me, or has any one else noticed?

"Do they take your brains out when you buy a bycicle?"

Anyone who's spent more than five minutes in Berlin will know this to be the case. I am honestly staggered at how stupid some cyclists are on trains, especially the ones who leave their bikes blocking the doors.

Nor just on trains either, although it MAY be going slightly "off topic" for a moment, but the people who seem to think that because there is no cycle path, they are entitled, AND have right of way on any old pavement.

Na. But that is another topic.

P.S. Bye the way. Thank you for confirming it is not just me being pedantic about bikes on trains.

*laugh* Nothing like being the nations "Hauptstadt" when we have to go cap in hand to Munich for trains.

I bet the Bayernisch are laughing their collective asses off at us! It's completely pathetic....

Why?

As has been pointed out, it is nothing to do with Berlin, it is EVERYTHING to do with DB. Which, if it has escaped your attention, is a NATIONAL, and not a "Land" company.

Exactly. DB must accept ultimate responsibility (and perhaps even the government seeing as they own it). The CITY on the other hand owns the BVG and it is doing a sterling job if you ask me. I took a chance on the Ringbahn this morning, thinking it might have improved since Monday-wrong! Back to the bus/U Bahn for me from Monday coming. Because of the (almost) nature of the power supply to the Berlin S Bahn (third rail as opposed to overhead supply as used on nearly all other S Bahns throughout Germany) it makes finding replacement vehicles impossible at short notice.

An interesting thread with quite a bit of background on the misc.transport.rail.europe newsgroup.....

[url]http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.rail.europe/browse_thread/thread/927a7da90298b838#

So why is it that S-Bahn Munich, Stuttgart or anywhere else having this problem?

S-bahn berlin is a different company with its own management.

The Berlin S-Bahn is a separate GmbH and at least partially the poblems in Berlin were created by the (former) amangement of that GmbH.

The driving (sic) force behind the problems though is the Germany wide push that has been happening in DB for the las few years to make it nice and juicy for privatisation on the stock exchange eg reduce maintenance and maintenance capacity.

The different electricity suppply used in Berlin for the S bahn means that the trains used there are different to Munich or Stuttgart for example and maybe those trains were more susceptable to these problems.

I'm not sure anyone down south is laughing at Berlin really, it could have happenend anywhere and is a direct consequence of a national policy.

Wowi says DB are on their last chance and they are aleady getting financially penalised.

The idea to move the S bahn in Berlin into the BVG is an idea, it worked in West Berlin in the 1908s.

Still nothing to do with LAND Berlin. You say it yourself, it is a company with a management, and that Management is nothing to do with the Senate, although they are are answerable to them.

Is it possible to get a proportional refund on a Monatskarte because of the disruption? I know this is possible for striking.

I believe that HAS been mentioned and answered on this thread. But that was at the begining over the wheels.

The only REAL answer is to contact DB (Berlin) themselves. But I would imagine it is like trying to call a taxi at 23:30 on a new years eve in Times Square at present. Keep your ticket and keep trying till you get an answer. (Only send them COPIES. NEVER send the origional which may "get lost". But then I am a copper. I am PAID to be a cynical old git) DO NOT hold your breath.

Interesting question. I never actually thought about then. But then I'm from a city where it takes three times as long to cover the same distance as it does in Berlin, and that's with everything working normally...

re bikes on trains: not everyone with their bike on the train is a thoughtless idiot too lazy to ride it a few stops. I remember when the U-bahn drivers struck in 2008 I had to lug my bike on the S-bahn and still cycle half an hour from the station to my destination because I'd have to get to a remote part of Zepernick by 7.45am from Neukölln; cycling all that way is really not an option.

As for the question, "you have a bike, why not ride it to work"--that could probably go for the majority of people riding the train. I for one am willing to ride my bike up to an hour to get where I need to go; I enjoy it and it is free. But I find most people consider a ride of over 30 minutes to be something they do rarely and for recreational purposes, with lots of breaks in between. So why some people would expect others to consider their bikes their sole mode of transportation eludes me, as they would not likely do it themselves, although they too own a bike.

They are when other people can not GET on ther train, and therefore are late for work, interviews, appointments, etc, because of the space these ignorant bastards steal.

If you can ride a bike, you can blöoody walk as well.

you're not hearing me. What if those people on bikes also need to get to work, interviews, appointments, etc? Did you consider that they might actually need their bicycles on their commute?

I normally find that either with or without bike it is better in times of public transport stress to simply leave earlier. Never had a problem yet and have always been able to comfortably commute. Best to leave the scrum for seats to the Trustafarians and other associated Asshats that think that the city has to run to their schedule. If you can ride an S Bahn presumably you can blöoody walk as well - at least the next U Bahn stop.

Presumably if you are disabled, with prams or with large luggage you won't be travelling anyway due to aforementioned Asshats taking up the designated space allocated to them having already shoved all the cyclists off.

Nobody has a problem with cyclists taking their bikes on the Bahn in normal circumstances. These are not normal circumstances. 75% of SBahn wagons are out of service! There is simply no spare space available for bicycles when PEOPLE are being left behind on platforms because a bike is taking their place!

People who normally cycle as part of their commute must simply get up earlier and walk that leg of their journey or take a bus. At a time when 18 SBahn stations across Berlin don't even have ANY SBahn service at all it's not too much to ask those on bikes to make changes to THEIR commute pattern as well, along with the rest of the city.

Off peak it's not even an issue of course, just in the rush hours. I believe the vast majority of regular cyclists are now leaving their bike at home btw, only the odd selfih git left about the place.

No, they don't. Nowhere in Berlin is not serviced by a u-bahn, s-bhan or bus stop. It might take longer, but that doesn;t give you the right to force other peopel to take longer as well by blocking theie access to get on the train in the first place.

And the people who have had to cycle from the SBahn as they are trying to get to one of the 18 that are closed and then beyond? Presumably they are already changing their commuting patterns?

If you don't want to take the risk of not getting on a train for whatever reason, get up earlier. Regardless of means of conveyance.

But there's Schienenersatzverkehr for the stations not served by the trains and if they need to cycle AS FAR as an open station then they can always LOCK their bike there and board the train without it.

This is all quite academic anyway because bikes are forbidden on the S Bahn at this time, and for the greater good.

Even if EVERYONE got up earlier there is only so much you can do with only 25% of the wagons available to run! The trains will still be packed to the rafters.

Aren't bikes banned on trains in the rush hours in Berlin?

and what about people whose destinations end outside of Berlin? There are plenty of places in the C zone that are only serviced by S-bahn, or buses that only come every once in a blue moon. And as you're on the S-bahn, chances are you are going to some backwoods place that is actually NOT serviced by the U-bahn. I can hardly imagine that anyone would jump on the S-bahn voluntarily if they could get to where they were going in some other uncrowded and reliable fashion.

My only point is that as we really don't know where everyone is going, maybe it's not the best idea to decide they are all idiots. I think there are plenty of (good) reasons a person might need to bring their bike on the train, even when the train is full. Which brings me to my next point...

has anyone complaining here about the people with their bikes on the train ever tried to drag their own bike on a crowded car? It is beyond unpleasant. I find it hard to believe that anyone actually enjoys being shoved by their fellow passengers, irate stares AND comments (yes people are not happy first thing in the morning), not being able to get your bike in a good position i.e. being forced to be in other people's way because the people standing where you could possibly put your bike out of the aisle won't move so you can put it there, attempting to maneuver your way toward the door two stops before your destination so you don't go right by it trying to get out, when the entrance switches from the right to the left side and now you are suddenly blocking the door, passive aggressive people kicking your bike on purpose because they are annoyed with you for having the nerve to have dragged it on, etc etc etc?

It is not just uncomfortable and inconvenient for the bikeless riders, but almost literally hell for the cyclist himself.

So while I am definitely willing to believe there are some thoughtless idiots who don't give a , I find it hard to believe that most reasonably intelligent, non-mouthbreather people out there would put themselves through the stress of dragging their bike on board unless they reeeeeally felt it necessary.

Also: just because you pay for your bike does not guarantee you a spot on the train. If the train driver feels it inappropriate for you to have it on the train s/he will tell you to get off and wait for the next train. Evidently even the DB realizes that some people truly HAVE to bring their bikes on board.

No, not that I know of. There's normally plenty of room for bikes on the system. You just can't bring them on the bus (they are allowed on the tram AFAIK).

I'll ask. Seeing as there is an s-bahn station called Zepernick, how far is it from your destination?

Failing that, what's wrong with Murph's idea of locking the bike at Zepernick?

Does blocking other passengers count as "inappropriate" or does he ask everyone who has a bike where they're going and make a judgement call?

I don't need to go to Zepernick anymore. I was only giving an example from my own experience during a time that I would rather not have had to bring my bicycle on the train. But what would have been wrong with locking the bike at Zepernick is that a half hour ride from the station is a few hours walk and that is just not possible if I have to be there early in the morning.

I now commute solely by bicycle.

And none of the four bus routes that serve the s-bahn staion go anywhere near your destination..? Anyway, moot point.

The second part, outlined above doesn't make sence: if you had the bike waiting for you at the station, you wouldn't have to walk.

Any there is ALWAYS a solution that doesn't involve taking a bike and blocking other train users.

paul. listen. the point is that when I had to take my bike on the train it was during a BVG strike, bvg runs the buses too and there were none. So you're right, it is a moot point, because I was giving an example of how dragging your bike on the train is not always nice--and my experience happened to take place during a different transport crisis. I don't know what's going on with the station in Zepernick now during the strike because as I said, I no longer need to commute there. I do know that I have been to many places on the periphery of the city where if you didn't drive you were pretty much . The S-bahn also goes out to Oranienburg and other stretches of land that you might think are well-serviced by public transit, but try getting to a remote part of one of these neighborhoods at nothing o'clock in the morning and you might see that it is not as simple as you think.

I have used a lot of public transport in Berlin for my old job and the experiences I had during that time contribute greatly to why I feel this way.

There are also other circumstances like, maybe the person has several destinations to get to in one day and they can't rely on the S-bahn to get to all of them etc etc etc use your imagination. The world does not revolve solely around people who only need to do very simple things on the train, like putting themselves on it and taking themselves off of it, once in the morning and once in the afternoon.

EDIT: and, moreover? It is more of a pain in the ass for the person with the bike to stand on that train than it is for you to stand next to them, which is why I have such a problem understanding why anyone would do it if they didn't have to. I would honestly like to know how many people saw that they couldn't get on the train, while a cyclist was on board with his bike--this is a situation in which the cyclist is required to get off the train, there are signs posted everywhere.

...and I'm talking about the current state of affairs, where you can get pretty much anywhere on a bike. Or plan ahead. Oranienburg, you say? U8 Wittenau, get the SBahn there. Should be less people on then and more space for a bike. Yes, I know, it involves a bike on the SBahn, but there should be less people then than other stations. Or the RB/RE. And there must be local busses there. I've been to about three quarters of the sbahn stations without a bike and never had a problem.

It's possible. It's ALWAYS possible. You just have to be creative. Especially in the first scenarios outlined where they were talking about the Ringbahn.

Fold-up bike? Just an idea. Not sure if practicable.

It's a common thing in greater Munich to leave a bike at a peripheral S or U bahn station to ride the laxt couple of kilometres.

After asking at the customer service desk I was told they have no information regarding a refund, but that I should query again after the troubles have ended. After all one does not know how many days/weeks I am due to be refunded.

Keep all your tickets in a VERY safe place.

BUT, in that case, they SHOULD be refunding by the month.

Yeah I've all my monthly tickets kept safe and hopefully they will offer a 50% refund or something.

here's an update.. just heard on the local radio that this might not be all over for.. wait for it... TWO YEARS!!

According to an expert at TU (Technische University Berlin) S-Bahn Berlin is so far behind on checks that this little tidbit (the brakes problem) is only the tip of the iceberg..And they might have to check apsolutely everything!! groan.. please do say this is a 'possibility' and not fact because if this info is true.. I would hate to see the public outcry on this one.. help us all!

Just wait for the Winter, when they discover that they don't have the capacity to prepare the cars for frosty weather

a few more trains back in operation from next week

http://www.s-bahn-berlin.de/presse/presse_anzeige.php?ID=501

This is what comes of cutting staff and cutting even MORE staff. Eventualy the sytem falls apart.

"Financial annorexia". Starve the body (company) of enough food (cash/workers) for long enough and it will die (Become unfit for purpose). pity the S-Bahn could not see this coming.

Oh they knew what they were doing.. Ive had this conversation alot the last few days as quite frankly the people are truly sick of the situation now.. and they said that DB has been trying to get onto the stock exchange so they have been starving S-bahn for all they can to make their bottom line better.. Berlin should rip the contract up in front of them, and show these complacent idiots that if they will not provide quality service someone else will!!

Who would be idiot enough to take it on? As far as I know it has never turned a profit in it's entire history.

The Hamburg U Bahn Company "Hambuger Hochnahn" (?) and I think Arriva have an expressed an interest.

You don't make a profit purely from running the services, you make a profit (or hope to) from the fact that Berlin and brandenburg buy in a certai level of service from you as an oerator.

Thats bloody communism, and we in the East saw how bloody successful THAT was last time round.

Damn commies are no better than nazis in my book.

Dreadful overpowerful government running the economy for the interests of a view eh.

People living on run down estates with shitty services, forced into rubbish jobs for crap money and falling real incomes

Spying on the population, even going so far as to reguarly take biological samples from those who opposed the regime.

No proper seperation of intelligence services and the police.

Lucky that doesn't happen in the BRD eh.........erm..........

Not a QUARTER as much as in ther people soviet of Britain.

if that really were the case, wouldn't you expect the sbahn systems in all other urban areas to be having problems? Guess what? They aren't! The fault here largely lies with the local management combined with problems in local government and historic neglect of Berlin's transport systems.

The other systems use different trains. The 481 series (the one with all the problems) was designed by ADTranz (now Bombardier I think) specifically for Berlin as Berlin has third rail. Most other S Bahns use similar vehicles with overhead supply. This has a lot to do with the problem.

I'd say fault lies between DB national and local management. Berlin had 50 year old trains running happily along up until recently.

OH NOOOO!!!

May the Gods preserve us from "train spotters"!!!

yup, but 50 year old trains will fail eventually and are more likely to fail than two year old trains which is why i said a combination of poor local management and neglect were at fault.

The train system doesn't have a lot to do with. The 3rd rail with similar power supply is used for the S-Bahn in Hamburg, and the U-Bahn in Berlin, Nuremberg, Hamburg and Munich. Somehow they managed to keep their trains running. And 50 year old trains are not only more likely to fail, they are also heavier and use old inefficient engines.

<trainspotter hat>

The electrification system is PARTIALY at "fault" because it means that other train untis can't be brought in for some lines.

However it is not without comparison with ither big urban rail systems in Europe.

Many systems work on their "own" eletricity plan that raises issues with unit compatibilty.

eg London's Tahmeslink can ONLY work with soecific trains that can handle the "London Midland" 25K oberleitung (?) with the "Southern" third rail.

Is it a "local management" issue?

Yes, to an extent. But a direct resulr of federal policies.

In the government AND the DB concern as a whole.

= Privitisation.

it is unfortunate that the privatisation plan coincided with the crisis in the S-bahn meaning that necessary action could not be taken because of austerity measures within DB - but the crisis would never have been reached if fundamental mistakes had not been made over many any years before the privatisation plan was even mooted. And to be fair to the Federal governent, they were under pressure from the IMF and from their EU partners to privatise DB for a very long time. The solution the came to was a part privatisation which would have kept a crucial state stake in the company. However, market instability has done for that plan.

Electric powered trains do not HAVE engines. Please explain.

Errrrrm...this is one thing that you CANNOT blame on Erich Honnecker!

Klipp and klar a result of the desire for privatatisation and profits.

I thought that an engine is the system keeping the train moving, including transformers for all electric devices on the train like the motor, heating, compressors, and whatever alse needs electricity. I am sorry if I have confused you by using the wrong word.

Electric trains are moved by motors. The same as EVERY other electrical device in the universe. Why would you put an engine on something that already has a traction producer?

The only POSSIBLE exception are diesel/electric motor units, whereby the diesel engine is used to produce the electricity to run the traction motors.

But the S-Bahn do not have them.

My point about the third rail was not that third rail is inherently defective, it was that because Berlin uses this (relatively) unusual system for it's S Bahn, it means the EMUs (trains) had to be ordered bespoke for Berlin. They are not like the off-the-peg S Bahn units in most every other city in Germany which use overhead supply. Therefore, the specific technical problems with the Berlin S Bahn will not likely manifest themselves anywhere else in germany because the 481 series EMU doesn't exist outside Berlin.

Berlin's other, OLDER rolling stock (much from the east actually) is running fine and well (as far as we know) hut there is simply not enough of it as the 481 was a very large contract with hundreds of units built to replace the aging stock. It is a specific set of circumstances to do with rolling stock design and maintenance and funding and management direction. I suspect if Berlin used the same rolling stock as the rest of Germany for it's S Bahn or even if it used only the older type of Berlin stock, these problems would have been minimised. The 481 series has got flaws in it remember-the wheels shouldn't crack at all and the checks that the Railway Ministry ordered were because of a derailment incident which highlighted a possible inherent flaw in the design. The brake cylinders are the same AFAIK.

The management errors (both S Bahn Berlin and higher) are to do with the ordered checks not being carried out and it's fair to assume that this was as a result of financial pressure from DBAG.

But they had the same wheel problems with the ICEs earlier in ther year (Last year???). And they are deffinatel NOT 481s.

OR has everyone forgotten that?

Dream on. I was THERE.

With THAT we are in TOTAL agreement.

...whereas capitalism in the US has produced public trasport services that are the envy of the rst of the world, right?

Thanks for the explanation, I thought engine could be used for anything moving a vehicle.

The problem is not primarily the electric system, equipping existing EMUs to run here would be possible. A similar discussion (in German) about the possibility to convert the Berlin S-Bahn to overhead supply here lists mainly problems with the loading gauge of the trains used elsewhere. One posting mentions that even the construction of a common EMU for Berlin and Hamburg failed because of this.

The problem isn't really the loading guage or electricity systems.

The problem is the notion that peoples' mobility is something that HAS to turn a profit.

There's more to it than that (but that is clearly a massive factor), otherwise we'd likely have seen the same problems across Germany. we haven't, because the 481 is unique to Berlin (because Berlin ha a unique S Bahn rolling stock requirement).

Why would I have the SLIGHTEST interest in what happens in that hole?

No idea. Just putting the whole capitalist/communist argument into context. You want these people running the S-Bahn? How's that working out for us?

Oh yeah...

You'd think it couldn't get any worse, but it can. Today on the Ring, the signs that tell you when the next train is/may be coming now only show "bitte ansage beachten". Not that there are any ansage, of course. Confirms what I've always thought: it's not just the management - the entire organisation is useless from top to bottom.

Ooohh! You HOPELESS Cynic!

(Join the "Cynic club" bye the way.)

Both my Grandmothers were here in 1943 to 45 ( I HATE the Russians therefore). And THEN the S-Bahn was MORE reliable than today!!!

If it can run when two thirds of the city is destroyed, how come they could not run a Girl Guide "lemonade stall" now?

My cynicism is in no way diminished by some of the things I see on the S Bahn and DB Regio:

Train overshooting the platform, so passengers in the end coach have to go to the next one to leave the train (twice in the last month)

Train leaving a station, then jerking to a sudden halt ten seconds later. Needless to say, no explanation given

And why does the fat controller have to waddle across the platform just to say "zuruck bleiben bitte"? Can't the driver read the signal and decide when it's safe to go?

It's like the old joke ...

Q: How many people work at Deutsche Bahn?

A: About half of them.

The driver does not have the same visuals a person on the platform has.

Indeed. It is often unsafe to rely on the driver to clear himself to depart, particularly on curved platforms. Nice straight platforms are usually ZAT (Zugabfertigung durch Triebzugfahrer). You'll see the ZAT sign at the end of the platforms to tell drivers whether or not they should wait for clearance from platform controllers.

There is of course the argument that the U Bahn uses cameras and monitors and the driver always clear himself. U Bahn platforms are shorter however.

Good news for those with an Abo

http://www.s-bahn-berlin.de/aboundtickets/abo_freimonat.htm

@scorpio

I read that page last week, but I had trouble translating it. Does that mean if you have a monthly pass now, you can save it and use it in December? Does it also say that you can buy a monthly pass until November 10, and then continue to use that for the month of December? Would the student monthly passes count? And why does it say "free month for new accounts"?

If you pay for an all year ticket/subscription you will automatically get Dec free. I think also if you open a new account before Nov 10 you qualify for the free Dec ticket. As far as I can see you must have an Abo or yearly ticket.

Ja TOLL! But it is only for people who pay a subscribtion ticket, (Money taken out of bank by VBB), or have a year card.

What about all us with ordinary "Monatskarte"??? Or was their some secret deal whereby WE were supossed to have special trains laid on that other could not use, or something? Wrer we ALSO not incovienienced?

So basically, Monatskarte holders can go screw themselves as far as the S-Bahn is concerned.

In other words they are still in talks regarding other customers.

My comment still stands. They are STILL treating "other customers" as a lower form of life. OR they would have decided at the same time as they did with the "rest", what they were going to do.

It is easy. You show a Monatskarte for the time the S-Bahn was "down" then you get a percentage, (ie the S-Bahn percentage), of the price back. IN CASH!

There is no "negotiating" to do. They have already accepted responsibility by allowing "Abo" and "S/O customers money back.