MPs rush new gun law but back down from paintball ban

Gun laws in Germany are already ridiculously strict in my opinion. Why blame a gun in the school shooting? Blame the parents and the teachers that did not detect this was a disturbed young man. This is like the proverbial blaming the pen for typos.

I think that Herr Schober has probably got it right. If you want to use a gun at a gun-club, then let the gun-club look after it. What good does it serve having it around the house?

I was living in Germany for 20 years as american soldier and Government employee. Yes the gun laws are strict and to obtain a weapons card was difficult and expensive. Gun clubs are just trying to survive. The noise and the lead in the soil has closed many a good ranges in Germany. Paint guns are quiet and the pellets arent toxic to the soil. Unfortunately we have the movies and news from USa that glorifies gun violence. This is the problem.

Astonysh,

I hope you are never violently attacked or murdered in your own home and find out just why a gun locked away at some gun club is a stupid idea!

Do the Country leaders not wish for citizens to be able to protect themselves? As has been proven in the US, the bad guys always have weapons whether or not they are illegal. The weapons don't kill, it's the bad guys who use them. To ban hand guns is pretty sorry. Sure, there are some exceptions. but,overall, the good guys need the protection.

Do you want to ask that question to people shot by accident in there own home? Is there a statistic of how often a gun in the home has actually detered an attack/robbery etc.? And while were at it, if someone breaks into your house with a gun (since his guess is you've got one) how likely will that person be to use it on you first (and probably have more practice anyways).

Yeah, much better would be if we got rid of all them leaders, army and all other evil forces that want to take all our rights away.

Go join a militia spunkbrain.

Yes. Like we need to be armed here! Another fool who thinks we need to have the same number of gun deaths as they have in the US.

I had rifles in my home for many years & no one was ever threatened or shot with them. So did my father, so have my brothers, friends, etc. If I were still living on a farm I would have a firearm for three reasons: to kill injured/sick animals, to kill predators esp stray dogs which do a lot of damage to farm animals, to defend myself from thieves who have no problem getting & using illegal weapons. Police protection is non-existant in rural areas where the nearest police may be hours away at a time when minutes are vital. Hunting? Maybe but I doubt it, maybe some birds.

Yeah. But you can do all that with a paint-ball gun! Sick animals? ...Blue?

You got any statistics to show that having a gun makes you any less a target to violent home invasion? I didn't think so. In fact, I'll bet that the statistics prove your point in the negative. I can honestly say that in Germany I never have any fear of anyone attacking me with a gun, and I like it like this. I'm sure part of this is due to the strict regulations, which would be stronger if I had my way.

Trying to tell some people that guns lead to violent crime is like telling the Pope the word celibate was mistranslated...

The 2nd amendment of the US constitution is not about protecting yourselves from criminals it is about protecting yourself from a tyrannical government. Like one that does not trust its citizens to make good choices on its own. Of course given the current condition in the states and the amount of people that think the government should be the end all, provide all for everyone this makes sense. For those that love democracy, free enterprise and little government interference it is an Obama-nation.

I have been following this thread, and being pro gun in as much as I am, even I have a problem with some of the replies. This is a big chunk of info, which may be outdated as I have been out of the loop for nearly decade or so.

I enjoy target shooting and hunting, the tool's that I use for these recreational pastimes are kept permanently locked away unless I'm using them for the afore mentioned activities or cleaning or working on them, which I do in a locked room, not in the kitchen or living room.

I don't keep a loaded weapon under my pillow, just in case. As that would more than likely be used on myself or my loved one's, plus it also makes for an uncomfortable pillow.

I no longer have a *Waffenschein* (CCW), as I no longer work in industrial security, so I don't concealed carry a weapon any longer, which coincidentally is not as prestigious as some may believe, once you have qualified, by that I mean passing all of the written and practical test's you have the imbuggerance of having to consider where and how you are going to conceal it about your person, if open carry is not an option. Then there are the other considerations, you can no longer go and do things while carrying. No you can't go to the theatre or cinema, as they are considered to be events, as they are advertised for, in the case of VIP protection you have to contact the event administration prior to the event if your VIP is invited, and ask for his written permission, if they refuse, as they have their own security or the Polizei were providing security you had to rely on hand to hand, if things got out of hand or you stayed with the car.

*Waffenschein* Is the German equivalent to a CCW in the USA, which is issued for a three year period, the holder of a Waffenschein has to have sufficient insurance cover and prove that he/she has had sufficient training and that he practices on a regular basis, the written test has to be repeated on an annual basis whereas the practical skills have to be carried out on a quarterly basis. a Waffenbesitzkarte is the equivalent to an English Firearms certificate. In Germany you have to have an Waffenbesitzkarte for the weapon's that you own, to carry a firearm 24/7 you require a Waffenschein as well. To be issued with a Waffenschein the Authorities prove each individual case, and make individual decisions on if the person really requires to be armed or not, for example back in the 60's and 70's taxi drivers were issued with them, today they wouldn't have a chance, as the threat level that they face each day is not considered grave enough to warrant one. The only people who are issued with a WS today are Polizei for off/on duty carry or private security companies, however there are some exceptions to that rule. Embassy protection staff and some FSO's also qualify.

For those here in Germany who wish to own a firearm for self/home defence, you worry me.

Tony

The problem with this whole gun/anti-gun discussion is that most people who want to ban guns are not very honest (in my experience). They all state that the reason for banning guns would be to save peoples lives when in reality it is only to ban guns. Peoples lives are a secondary concern.

Some people do not like guns and think that no sane person should like them or god forbid feel the need to protect themselves with a gun. Those same people of course want to ban guns because they feel threatened by them, which seems kind of strange. Interestingly most people refer to US gun deaths when in reality the US is comprised of federal states, each of which has it's own gun law. And the states with the strictest gun laws do not even have the lowest crime rates or gun death rates, in fact many of them belong to the states with the highest gun death rates, whereas states with a high percentage of guns in homes have lower crime and gun death rates. Additionally, crime rates in states which have introduced CCW have reported lower crime rates since that measure. That doesn't automatically mean that more guns relate to lower crime. It just shows us that we are looking at a complex set of variables here and an easy solution is not possible. Of course people like easy solutions (banning something) - that's why so many politicans offer them. And if something should be banned that you don't care for or even dislike - why fight that ban?

The answer is simple: Because sometime in the future something that you enjoy will be banned. And then another something that you enjoy will be banned.

I think that people in a free and tolerant society should not only tolerate other peoples hobbies and needs, but also fight for other peoples freedoms, even if they themselves do not like that particular freedom. Of course this does not mean that we should allow everything. That will lead to chaos. But we should allow as much as possible. And whenever there is a decision to be made as to whether something should be banned, we should look very hard to solve the problem by other means.

Wonderful thought, too bad it does not go over well here on TT.

As for the new rush on German laws not sure what they can do other than try to rush something to make people FEEL safer. Not that you can compare the US and German laws (because of the US 2nd amendment) but often the fault in the US system is not the lack of laws but the lack of enforcement of existing laws.

So now do we (as in all the World) pass new laws/bans when 1 person fails to uphold/break an existing law. In that the father didn't properly lock his weapons so now we make a new law effecting everyone.

They could resist the urge to offer a seemingly easy approach that doesn't work in this case anyway. But I do not really blame the politicians for their behaviour. I am not a politician myself but I can guess that they behave in the way they do because the system just works like that. If you are honest with the people and try to find real solutions (which takes time) you won't make it far. And the case could be made that if the majority of the population wants to ban guns then they should be banned. That is democracy after all. I just think that people should be more aware of what they wish for.

The founding fathers of the US have put a lot of systems in place to ensure that people would be able to keep their freedoms. What they couldn't forsee is that people might be willing to give up on their freedoms by themselves. That is a fault of the german system as well as you can see in the recent debate over violent videogames. Certain politicians want to ban them because they can corrupt our youths when in reality it is already illegal for youths to own these games because of mandatory age restrictions.

Difference here is that the legal system is almost the polar opposite of the US.

There it is - you can do anything so long as it isn't banned

Here it is - you can do nothing unless it is allowed.

Which is why you will never convince each other.

That isn't true. If it was, there would be less talks about banning things here. We have, however, a lot more restrictions in many areas than in the US. And we also have more of a 'let the government control the people' attitude than in the US.

Most of the things that are being talked about aren't actually being banned but permission to do them is being removed.

For instance you can smoke if you pay the tax on the tobacco, this permission is being removed in certain places.

There are not many things that are totally unregulated in Germany. Breathing maybe?

I'm not really sure I get your point. Something is not free if you have to pay taxes? That is certainly a way to look at it but this means that nothing in any country is free.

Not sure if any have actually been paint balling before, but it is definitely at sport. There are many different version of the game that are played and there are even large cash tournaments in the states. As mentioned before it is marking of the opponents not shooting them. I think most people would be surprised how much fun it is and the friendly atmosphere after each match. Over aggressive attitudes are not tolerated.