Published: 17 Sep 12 16:29 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/money/20120917-45023.html
Nearly two thirds of Germans think they would be better off if they had not swapped the deutschmark for the euro while about half say they would be doing better without the European Union.
What do you think? Leave your comment below.
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Your comments about this article:
I want to ask you a hypothetical question.
There was another Local article where the ECB's Mario Draghi offered to speak to the German parliament about his Euro rescue plans.
What if in Draghi's place before the German parliament, you Mr. Smart2012, were going to deliver that speech before the German parliament.
As you were standing there in your suit and tie before the German parliament;
What would you say about the Eurozone and Germany's part in its rescue? How would your speech sound?
The value of the DM (today) would vastly curtail Germany's exports as it's value to other currencies would be to high, making the cost to consumers in other lands to expensive.
The EU has provided Germany with a stable currency. There is no going back to the DM that would be the mother of all disasters.
The EU, is going through an adjustment period the banking industry has to be reformed from high risk buying and the "to big to fail" problem. Deutsche Bank,UBS for example are to large to be allowed to fail and getting larger putting the tax payer's on the hook for a bailout. Breaking these banks up would be a step in the right direction, but special interest will most likely win out in this theatre.
Perhaps breaking up the EU, the USA and China into more manageable components would be a solution to too much government regulation.
The British broke up the biggest Empire that ever existed after WW11, for that matter, they carved up India int 5 pieces while they were at it.
NATO carved up Yugoslavia in the early 1990's.
Is the model of super states really any better for governments than for banks or other businesses like Google or Microsoft?
We never as citizens get a chance to weigh in on a referendum on this issue.
In an article above this one, Westerwelle, like so many Euro super state centrics calls for more Europe, now yet more elected officials ond the Euro level, why never a vote for the people on less Europe?
Let the people chose between the two, look at all these referendums over the past 25 years. They all are only in the one direction and if the Eurocrats don't get their way they simply keep voting till the citizens vote the way they want them to.
"why never a vote for the people on less Europe?" - Maybe because polls are showing that Europeans find EU a model for the rest of the world, as reported by the article? Maybe because countries are lining up to join the EU? Maybe because non-Euro countries are still preparing for adopting the Euro? Maybe because even the Greeks feel more comfortable within EU and the Eurozone than outside of them?
But are those reasons to deprive citizeds of a democratic referendum which gives a choice other than more and more European integration?
And then when the pro Euro side loses the referendum to simply ignore the results or force them to re-vote as has happened repeatedly?
Polls out in France this week indicate that if Maastricht was subject to a re-vote it would lose by close to 70% It barely won in the 1990's by 51% to 49% anyway. Why not subject that to a re-vote? If the polls go the other way in favor of more Europe you can bet your last Euro there will NEVER be a re-vote!
If it is so great, why so much fear of democratic referendums that are organized in a way that does not have governments try to sway the outcome?
The policy in Brussels is that governments decide in their all night negotiating sessions and then have an obligation to go back to their national body politics and sell the treaties to their citizens!
What kind of Democracy is this?
Even if that is the case, the most recent poll results are not clear at all.
It sounds like we are both citing the IFOP poll no the front page of yesterday's LeFigaro.
Two questions were posed; first was if you were allowed a re-vote on Maastricht, 64 % said they would vote no on it.
Second question was would you like to go back to the Franc, 65 % said no.
In some of the English translations, including in the Daily Telegraph of London the second question was mis translated, they posed it as would you like to leave Euro or go back to Franc so when the same two questions posed by the exact same pollster at the same time they appeared to give opposite impossible results.
But when you look at the original publication you understand.
Like so many thing she Devil is in the details.
Definitely not. But we should not organise a referendum (which costs couple of tens of millions at least) each time someone feels dissatisfied with the current state of affairs. Actually I think that the French Constitution clearly specifies the reasons for organising a referendum (redefining the powers of the state institutions, reforms or the ratification of a treaty which is incompatible with the Constitution). So the law which is the backbone of Franch democracy says that the question whether France should leave the EU or the Eurozone is not to be answered through a referendum, but through other measures.
Otherwise I agree with you that, as the polls show, the French are a bit confused,.
The United States is a REPUBLIC and is not a Democracy.
There is a simple reason for this, as Benjamin Franklin ""Democracy is two wolves and a lamb discussing what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Throughout History Democracies have fallen prey to what is called "the tyranny of the majority". That is where smart politicians put together a coalition of "50%+1", so they have a majority, and then use that majority status to enrich and perpetuate their majority...normally at the expense of the minority. This is what we are seeing in Europe today, Democracy.
Referendums, can you really trust John Q Public to be able to make an intelligent decision based on the pros and cons and the facts of an important issue? There are far to many special interest groups with their spin doctors out there for me to trust a referendum.
As for the worry that the body politic is too easily swayed by special interests so referendums can't be trusted?
Well for one thing they have not been given much weight in the EU, if Brussels does not like the result, they simply ignore it (France an Netherlands on constitution) (Ireland and Denmark on various treaties) so I guess those who don't care for referendum democacy de-facto have their will in EU
Second on the question of special interests, take a guess about how many paid lobbyists have permanently set up shop in Brussels?
Do the lobbyists generally get their way at expense of people in commission and parliment?
Look at the fisheries of Europe and answer that question, or virtually everything else for that matter.
"can you really trust John Q Public to be able to make an intelligent decision based on the pros and cons and the facts of an important issue?"
Do you believe that politicians and bureaucrats generally make intelligent decisions based on the pros and cons and the facts of an important issue?
Many people in the world, from many different societies, think politicians are eternal liars and corrupt minded. Perhaps it is just that people think this when they are unhappy that an issue wasn't decided their way.
How strongly do you trust politicians over John Q Public? A little or a great deal?
Are politicians sometimes swayed by special interests?