• Germany edition
Business & Money
Photo: DPA

Spaniards, Greeks, cut off from German benefits

Published: 9 Mar 12 10:07 CET | Print version
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/money/20120309-41235.html

People from Mediterranean states have been cut off from basic German state benefits, in a move seen as an attempt to prevent immigration from struggling EU economies.

The Frankfurter Rundschau newspaper has seen a leaked directive from the Labour Ministry to the Federal Employment Agency - dated February 23 – which bars people who move to Germany from 14 EU countries, plus Norway, Iceland and Turkey, from claiming the basic unemployment benefit known as Hartz IV.

The European Union countries banned include Greece, Spain and Portugal, which has led the German media to interpret the move as an attempt to head off people moving to Germany before they have found work.

Up until now, immigrants from the 17 signatories to the European Convention on Social and Medical Assistance (EFA), signed in 1953, were entitled to claim unemployment benefit in each other’s countries while they looked for work. The ministry has effectively unilaterally ended this agreement, justifying the move by saying that all EU immigrants should be entitled to equal benefit rights.

EU immigrants have only been able to claim benefits in Germany since October 2010, when a French man used the EFA agreement to claim the right in a federal court. Since then, the German job centre has had to pay benefits to immigrants from EFA signatories even if they have come to Germany exclusively to look for work.

“To give EU citizens entitlement to Hartz IV from day one does run the risk of abuse, since anyone can say they are looking for a job,” Ferdinand Wollenschläger, a European law professor from the University of Augsburg told the paper. “But you have to ask how realistic it is that young, educated Spanish people leave their home country to live on Hartz IV in Germany.”

The opposition said it was mystified by the ministry’s decision. “The number of immigrants that start claiming Hartz IV as soon as they arrive is almost zero,” Elke Ferner, deputy parliamentary chairwoman of the centre-left Social Democratic Party (SPD) told the Frankfurter Rundschau.

The Federal Employment Office also said that the directive would have little effect on its work, since immigrants heading straight into the social security system were seen “only in individual cases.” They described the Labour Ministry’s move as a “preventative measure.”

The Local/bk

What do you think? Leave your comment below.


Your comments about this article:

10:53 March 9, 2012 by bugger
Norway and Iceland are no EU members, and Turkey is neither an EU member nor a European country. Try to go to Turkey to claim welfare or health insurance - both practically don't not exist.
11:27 March 9, 2012 by hereward
There are few at the moment,but just wait until the news travels,you will have mongolians and kalahari bushmen demanding to be fed,clothed and housed,uman rights innit.Still the Greeks will be alright,our provincial council has just sold them 1 billions worth of weapons,just in case they object to being dispossessed while the european states plant thier own flag on the valuable bits.
11:28 March 9, 2012 by LecteurX
So, bugger, I don't know, maybe they modified the article after you wrote this comment, but based on the above your comment seems to be completely out of touch with the article.

When they say "people who move to Germany from 14 EU countries, plus Norway, Iceland and Turkey", there's no ambiguity about the fact that Norway, Iceland and Turkey are outside the EU.

Plus Turkey is a member of this European Convention on Social and Medical Assistance thingy, so maybe you could substantiate your rather gratuitous attacks on the country...
12:51 March 9, 2012 by crm114
... perhaps you could justify your use of the term "gratuitous attacks on the country" he is only stating the truth. If you really want to be pedantic, bugger does not actually claim that ambiguity exists, he simply re-formulates the statement made in the article. Perhaps what we should attack is not the individual nations but the entire rotten system that allows this to happen
16:41 March 9, 2012 by smart2012
Spain etc should then put a law to say that it is not allowed for Germans to go to the doctors in Spain faking urgency just to get cheaper treatments to teeth, eyes etc on local state expenses......
18:33 March 9, 2012 by Acechaser
It's about time.
21:10 March 9, 2012 by jabulani
It is time that Germany stops paying for the whole world as it has done for years after wwii.Every nation should be independent of each other. If the spaniards, turkish, greeks and the rest do not look after their own citizens why should other countries bear the brunt of paying for non germans? I am not german but i would not like to be abusing any health system.I live in Africa and it is unbelievable how many natives are trying to find the way to a "free ride" in Europe. !! their mentality is live without work. So be sure that on the countries they go I WOULD NEVER VENTURE !!! IF ANY EU CITIZENS RECEIVE HEALTH BENEFITS IN GERMANY LETS THEIR OWN COUNTRIES REFUND GERMANY FOR THE SERVICE TO THEIR OWN PEOPLE.
23:02 March 9, 2012 by ovalle3.14
¦quot;But you have to ask how realistic it is that young, educated Spanish people leave their home country to live on Hartz IV in Germany.¦quot;

Very. I know a Spanish guy who works as an Umzugshelfer here.
23:21 March 9, 2012 by PierceArrow
Now if only the USA would STOP giving government benefits to immigrants, especially illegal aliens.

BTW, anyone emigrating from cushy Norway who claims to be looking for work is either lying or a psycho.
11:12 March 10, 2012 by ChrisRea
@ crm114

bugger is definitely not stating the truth when saying that one would not get the benefits of welfare or health insurance systems in Turkey. This is what LecteurX called bugger's statement an attack that was uncalled for (I guess 'gratuitous' is a word which is too difficult for you).
19:57 March 10, 2012 by Englishted
If Germany unilaterally decides it will no longer honour a treaty signed in 1953 ,

why should they expect Greece to honour any thing they sign in relation to the bail out repayments ?.

I am not saying it is right or wrong so don't moan it is just a thought .
11:26 March 11, 2012 by Nenya
Generally speaking, I think it strange that a person would get unemployment benefits without their unemployed status being proven. How on earth does that work?

But the most interesting question here is what happens with the million-ish of Greeks who are already in Germany, invited often by the German state many years ago, and who've had jobs? As well as the ones who get a job then lose it? if they have a job, THEN *become* unemployed, do they get unemployment benefits?
14:13 March 11, 2012 by ChrisRea
@ Englishted

EFA allow for unilateral termination of the agreement. The bail out agreements (to be) signed by Greece do not have such a clause. Is the difference clear now?

@ Nenya

'Million-ish of Greeks who are already in Germany' you say? The official statistics speak of less than 300,000.
19:49 March 11, 2012 by Englishted
@ChrisRea

Yes having read up ,you are correct .

But it is hardly in the spirit of the agreement ,and why when the on 15 December 2011 they sent the letter of withdrawal was it kept so quiet?

Was it even discussed in parliament? let alone a vote there?

Strange that I think you will agree.
17:33 March 12, 2012 by Nenya
@ChrisRea

Fair enough, I did not go LOOK at the statistic and I may be wrong; that is merely my estimate considering that there are 10,000,000 greeks outside of Greece and that Germany is supposed to be the third largest point of relocation for them.

My point however stands- 300,000 is not a measly number in any case.

That said, does that 300,000 include the dual nationals and the migrants' descendants?
ADD YOUR COMMENT   (YOU MUST LOG IN OR REGISTER TO MAKE A COMMENT)
Business & Money headlines
Photo: DPA

Hamburg to be run by at least 40 percent women

Hamburg city state has taken the first steps to introducing a women's quota in management - passing a law saying that no committee can be staffed by more than 60 percent of a single gender. READ () »

Photo: DPA

German investor confidence on the up

German investor sentiment rose slightly in June, on firming hopes for a gradual recovery in Europe's biggest economy in the second half of the year, the ZEW economic institute said on Tuesday. READ () »

Photo: DPA

Commerzbank 'to shed 5,000 jobs'

Commerzbank, Germany's second largest bank, looks set to shed 5,000 jobs, it emerged on Tuesday. The move is part of an attempt to recover from heavy losses incurred during the 2008-2009 financial crisis. READ () »

Photo: DPA

Deutsche Bahn fires staff in corruption clean-up

Deutsche Bahn has fired more than 30 managers who were involved in bribery - and is withdrawing from a slew of countries where corruption is rife. READ () »

Photo: DPA

Sun sets on Siemens solar division

German tech giant Siemens has drawn a line under its foray into the solar power business and is closing down the division, business newspaper the Handelsblatt reported on Monday. READ () »

Photo: DPA

Motorists flush away millions in toilet tickets

Motorists in Germany are throwing away millions of euros - by not cashing in the 'refund' ticket handed out by public toilet companies operating at autobahn stops. READ () »

Photo: DPA

Germany joins EU youth unemployment fight

Germany, Italy, France and Spain sent their economy and labour ministers to Rome on Friday to try to find ways to reduce the mass youth unemployment blighting the lives of millions across Europe. READ () »

Photo: DPA

Canny footballer shoots, scores, is banned

A German amateur footballer who took part in a goal-shooting competition organized by an electronics retail chain, won thousands of euros worth of goods for himself, friends and even complete strangers - until the store banned him. READ () »

Photo: DPA

Rat poison found at Lidl supermarkets

The German discount supermarket chain Lidl was under fire on Thursday for reportedly scattering rat poison on its produce shelves - without warning customers or reporting a rodent problem to the authorities. READ () »

Photo: DPA

Berlin: EU can find 'good solution' to US free trade

Germany is confident the EU will find a "good solution" despite differences and hand the EU Commission a mandate to negotiate a landmark free-trade accord with the United States, a government source said on Friday. READ () »

More Business & Money

See all ads | Join the Marketplace

Jobs in Germany, in English

861 jobs available
582 new jobs this week
0 new jobs today

ALL JOBS »

Latest Business & Money news from Sweden
News from the Goethe-Institut
News from DeutschlandOnline

Toytown Germany
Germany's English-speaking crowd
Trade CFDs with InterTrader.com
Start trading shares, equities, forex, etc. No commission on equities; Low min. margins. Apply for a CFDs account now!
Little house in Spain
'Charming, old, beamed cottage for holiday let in Jesus Pobre, Alicante, Spain
www.littlehouseinspain.com/
Albatross Insurance
Professional and qualified consultancy on all insurance and finance matters in Germany, Telephone: +49 2163 571 1740, Email: bg@albatross-assurance.com
www.albatross-assurance.com
Hotel reservations in Berlin
Visiting Berlin anytime soon? Book your hotel in Berlin here.
Rental apartments in Berlin
For home-from-home holiday accommodation, search for a Berlin apartment to rent.